Israel/Hamas going at it

1,913,071 Views | 10742 Replies | Last: 4 hrs ago by YouBet
LMCane
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LMCane
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LMCane
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would it even be possible for Hamas to blow up their own tunnels underneath Shifa hospital without caving in all the buildings? it's not a good sign that there has been no video yet from those basements and tunnels. that's a worrying sign

nortex97
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Dude, they had an elevator for 7 people that went 90 feet down.

Quote:

While the IDF knew that the military high command area and some connected tunnel network would be hard to take, and assigned both high-powered Units 401 and Givati troops to do so, senior officials were surprised by the scope and sophistication of what could only be described as similar to the IDF's "pit" under the Kirya military headquarters in Tel Aviv.

Part of this network included a special shaft with an elevator that did not merely go the conventional three to five meters underground that many Hamas tunnels run but rather reached an almost unheard-of depth of 30 meters.

The elevator could fit around seven people.

Inside the bottom of this special tunnel, the IDF found signs that Hamas's high command had hidden there, with a top official speculating that this could very well have included: Gaza Hamas chief Yahya Sinwar and Hamas military chief Mohammed Deif.
Small wonder they wanted to fight over control of this 'hospital' command center. That's roughly equivalent to an 8 story building, even assuming the elevator went to the 'bottom' layer (likely not).
LMCane
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that is the flag of the "Givati" Brigade. One of the original brigades of the IDF from 1948 along with the Golani Brigade also fighting in Gaza City.

LMCane
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really need to get video of this out ASAP

it would do a lot of good in debunking more Hamas lies.
Ag87H2O
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LMCane said:

just like the buildings in Berlin and Berchtesgarden and Munich being demolished in May 1945. the soldiers have very high morale:

one of them jokes at another that "you are a zero!" and another one yells to his buddy "did you get a picture?"

looks like more cool Gaza birds will be finding new nests in Israel now. All a Zionist conspiracy!


You have to admire the Israeli's singular focus on the mission and their sense of style. They not only are destroying Hamas as an organization, they are demeaning and demoralizing them in the process.

They don't let up when their enemy is on the ropes, they step on the throttle.
LMCane
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Waffledynamics
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AG

Quote:

Al-Arabiya correspondent from inside Al-Shifa Medical Complex: The Israeli army withdraws from the hospital

https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/15-november-alarabiya-correspondent-from-inside-alshifa-medical
Build It
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This is the best I can find if the Hamas most wanted. It's a few days old so I'm not sure if any them have been killed yet.

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231103-most-wanted-the-hamas-leaders-on-israel-s-radar

Still alive:

Mohammed Deif - commanding officer Hamas's military wing

Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader

Marwan Issa, the "shadow man"

Yahya Sinwar, leader of the Gaza Strip

Saleh al-Arouri, Hamas's No. 2

Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas leader in exile

Dead:

Zakaria Abu Maamar
Jawad Abu Shammala, two members of its political office.

Merad Abu Merad- commander of Ariel systems

Ali Qadi - commander in Hamas's Nukhba ("Elite") unit, which led the attack on Israeli towns near the Gaza Strip.

Ayman Nofal, a member of the higher military council of the al-Qassam Brigades

Osama Mazini, former minister of education









MouthBQ98
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I'd suggest they pump in liquid 2part expanding hardening high density foam. That stuff would seal it up pretty good and flow to open spaces.
LMCane
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anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...

LMCane
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Build It said:

This is the best I can find if the Hamas most wanted. It's a few days old so I'm not sure if any them have been killed yet.

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231103-most-wanted-the-hamas-leaders-on-israel-s-radar

Mohammed Deif - commanding officer Hamas's military wing

Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader

Marwan Issa, the "shadow man"

Yahya Sinwar, leader of the Gaza Strip

Saleh al-Arouri, Hamas's No. 2

Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas leader in exile










Mohammed Deif better end up dead within the next year. I doubt he is in Gaza.

Mohammed Deif - commanding officer Hamas's military wing

Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader

Marwan Issa, the "shadow man"

Yahya Sinwar, leader of the Gaza Strip

Saleh al-Arouri, Hamas's No. 2

Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas leader in exile

LMCane
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of course Hamas and their helpers in the media will simply claim the IDF planted these things

oh look! AKs and grenades hidden behind an MRI machine!

USAFAg
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LMCane said:

anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...




Pehaps to cut off resupply or escape by sea? If there are any Hamas in the open areas they are now trapped and the IDF is carving up thier rear logistical and support areas.

12thFan/Websider Since 2003
LMCane
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longer version of the entry into Shifa Hospital without editing

Ag with kids
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LMCane said:

anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...


Not as easy to hide in the desert.

Now they can start to push west from the coast. Basically like removing any cover for cockroaches so you can spray them.
nortex97
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USA*** said:

LMCane said:

anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...




Pehaps to cut off resupply or escape by sea? If there are any Hamas in the open areas they are now trapped and the IDF is carving up thier rear logistical and support areas.
They are working to strangle the densest populated centers (driving the 'civilians' out in the process,), while limiting/frustrating the weapons/driving desperation of Hamas folks stuck there now. This also is reflected, finally, in the rocket strikes from northern Gaza per day; there just aren't that many blocks/buildings now for them to use, or rounds left.

Exploiting intelligence doesn't mean immediately publicizing it's capture, whether it is an 'enigma' machine in the 40's, or how the IDF gained knowledge/control of the most powerful anti-tank weapons of Hamas in the first 72 hours of this ground operation. The secretive services folks have a plethora of abbreviations/terms for how this can/should be done in an asymmetrical battle like this, and I do trust the IDF side is historically both very adept and creative in their methods/plans/strategies.

Publishing everything found quickly would satisfy us neophytes on a war thread like this, but might be ultimately counterproductive to the missions (efficient destruction of Hamas, and rescue of any remaining hostages).
FTAG 2000
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LMCane said:

anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...



One, it's a good strategy to surround your enemy. Nowhere out.

Two, I'm guessing that Hamas had set up that open terrain with lots of tunnels they could attack from. So Israel goes around and works from behind, and then can come back and deal with that area later.

Three, it's clear Israel is all about al Shifa hospital. They would have had to clear all that heavy urban area to get there coming from the east.

Coming from the coast they only had to go four blocks, and the first three blocks from the coast are all low rise structures, easier to clear and level if necessary.

Mathguy64
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LMCane said:

anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...




I postulated before that's it's a giant Cannae. It's a massive pincer action. And right now the only open end of the bag is towards Israel and it's not like they can go that way. They have cut Hamas off and they can't escape.
LMCane
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Mathguy64 said:

LMCane said:

anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...




I postulated before that's it's a giant Cannae. It's a massive pincer action. And right now the only open end of the bag is towards Israel and it's not like they can go that way. They have cut Hamas off and they can't escape.


well they can escape if they already fled with the women and children to the South of Gaza

or if their tunnels are long enough.
Waffledynamics
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Quote:

New storming at "Al-Shifa" from the southern entrance
https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/15-november-new-storming-at-alshifa-from-the-southern-entrance
ABATTBQ11
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LMCane said:

anyone else thinks it's strange that the entire IDF liberation of Gaza is from the backside along the Western part of the Strip (following the beachline)?

they could easily move into the eastern section which is barely populated and there are no structures.

and yet for two weeks they drive all the way around and come in from behind.

I would imagine they are still worried about ambushes of Hamas which were prepared years ago- but I would think most of the Hamas fighters aren't sitting out 4 miles from the battle just waiting for an attack that never comes. interesting...




It probably stretches them thin. If you push towards the sea, they have their backs to a friendly wall. If you push them towards Israel, they have their backs to an enemy they must cover.

Also, they may not have built the same infrastructure in the west as the east. They may have built out their tunnels, caches, and holes with the assumption the Israelis would come straight from the east.
agent-maroon
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LMCane said:

of course Hamas and their helpers in the media will simply claim the IDF planted these things

oh look! AKs and grenades hidden behind an MRI machine

Bad idea to store anything made of steel near an MRI if there's any chance of it turning on. Those things will turn an IV pole into a deadly projectile. Would be interesting to see what it could do with live grenades & rifles
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dmart90
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That one hospital in the "open air prison" had two MRI machines? What's the average number on MRI machines per hospital in big cities in the US?
nortex97
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dmart90 said:

That one hospital in the "open air prison" had two MRI machines? What's the average number on MRI machines per hospital in big cities in the US?
There are over 20 'hospitals' in the tiny Gaza Strip.
ravingfans
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LMCane said:




I'm sure he was a fine upstanding piece of *****..
agent-maroon
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nortex97 said:

dmart90 said:

That one hospital in the "open air prison" had two MRI machines? What's the average number on MRI machines per hospital in big cities in the US?
There are over 20 'hospitals' in the tiny Gaza Strip.

20??? They're probably just human shield fronts for the hamas operations in the tunnels below. No way they could use that many hospitals or even have the medical staffing to support them.

I wonder if that MRI was even hooked up to a power source
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Raiderjay
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agent-maroon said:

nortex97 said:

dmart90 said:

That one hospital in the "open air prison" had two MRI machines? What's the average number on MRI machines per hospital in big cities in the US?
There are over 20 'hospitals' in the tiny Gaza Strip.

20??? They're probably just human shield fronts for the hamas operations in the tunnels below. No way they could use that many hospitals or even have the medical staffing to support them.

I wonder if that MRI was even hooked up to a power source
Indonesia has a "hospital" there......
Kozmozag
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Money laundering charities.
Matt Hooper
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I share her enthusiasm for his termination; but for different reasons.
Hooper Drives the Boat
Gilligan
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ravingfans said:

LMCane said:




I'm sure he was a fine upstanding piece of *****..



He probably beat and raped her. I bet she's ecstatic that he's dead.
clobby
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I believe some of those are CT machines. Wouldn't be wise to store weapons near a MRI machine.
spider96
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Gilligan said:

ravingfans said:

LMCane said:




I'm sure he was a fine upstanding piece of *****..



He probably beat and raped her. I bet she's ecstatic that he's dead.


I wonder if those women are even related or if there's a actually a martyr related to them.
Bubblez
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So anything yet on the command center under the hospital?
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