ETA: it starts at the 15:00 mark
You need a geography lessonaggie93 said:
Israel should bomb the wall between Egypt and the West Bank.
The Sinai is controlled by Egypt. There is a huge wall there that keeps the Palestinians from leaving to a Muslim country.AggieUSMC said:You need a geography lessonaggie93 said:
Israel should bomb the wall between Egypt and the West Bank.
Case in point that this isn't about land. It's about the extermination of the Jewish people and is a true existential threat to their survival.nortex97 said:Hamas official makes the case for Israel’s decision to remove the terror group from Gaza once and for all. Ghazi Hamad stated, “We will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel Is annihilated, We are victims, everything we do Is justified.” pic.twitter.com/SqeowU8zQU
— @amuse (@amuse) November 1, 2023
Good analysis above~Ag2Max said:
Let's round off and say that B/CS has a population close to 200,000. Using the percentages of 1300 killed to about 20,000 population in the area that would translate into 13,000 deaths in B/CS. That certainly puts it in perspective. And we would sit back with no response to a group that would come into B/CS and take 13,000 lives....I think not.
It just blows my mind that a good chunk of the world doesn't understand the Israeli's response to Hamas and the Palestinians. It's like they just forget or have a blind eye to what Hamas did upon their surprise attach on Israel. And you expect no response to your actions Hamas???
This will never happen and is being used for political purposes onlywill25u said:
Don't need to be a policing force.BREAKING: The US and Israel are exploring options for the future of the Gaza Strip, including the possibility of a multinational force that may involve American troops if Israeli forces succeed in ousting Hamas, per Bloomberg.
— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) October 31, 2023
nortex97 said:
Here is a very good article over at RCD about the prospect/utility/practicality of rapidly flooding the tunnels.Quote:
The Gaza tunnel system, mostly constructed over the last forty years, provides Hamas with offensive access to Israel. It also constitutes the terrorist organization's most formidable defensive redoubt. The tunnels present by far the most difficult logistical problem for Israel in eliminating enemy targets. Open-source maps show at least eleven independent tunnel networks, some nearly adjacent to the sea. The number of independent networks, however, could far exceed that. Hamas claims that the total length of the tunnels is about three hundred miles.
The geography of Gaza argues strongly for the stratagem of flooding the tunnels. It would force the enemy above ground where they can more easily be destroyed, dramatically reduce the Israeli casualties required to accomplish that task and resolve the problem of dealing with parts of the tunnels that are too deep to destroy through bombing. Most importantly, flooding is a permanent or near-permanent solution to the Gaza tunnel problem. Once accomplished, pumping them out enough to be usable again would be both extremely costly andespecially in conjunction with bombingexceptionally difficult. The timing of executing a flooding strategy is flexible; some could be flooded now, others later, and still others once they're discovered.
The engineering is straightforward. Egypt flooded thirty-seven cross-border tunnels in southern Gaza back in 2015 in what stands as a practical proof of concept in this location. Seawater from the Mediterranean would be pumped directly into the tunnel openings through short pipelines. While there's little hydrological head, there is also little topographical relief to deal with in laying the pipe. Large volumes of water are pumped long distances every day, and Israeli water technology is world class.
The shortest and most direct route to the tunnel entrances would be directly from the Mediterranean. This would require kinetic clearing of the construction sites and holding them for the duration of the operation to protect the temporary water transmission lines. The distance that would need to be cleared and held could be minimized on the northernmost and eastern tunnels by running a trunk line through adjacent Israeli territory and feeding water distribution lines to the tunnel entrances off that.
Flooding doesn't have to be slow. A six-by-five-foot tunnel that runs 300 miles is a huge volume to fill, but how fast it fills depends on how fast the water is pumped. Rough calculations indicate that if a single pipe were used for each of eleven tunnels, with each pipe pumping at a very conservative 100 gallons per minute, it would take about seven and a half months for all eleven tunnel networks to fill. Pumping water at ten times that rate, however, is routinely done today everywhere from wastewater treatment plants to oil field operations. Also, the tunnels wouldn't have to be filled to capacity to generate the desired effect. The effect would begin as soon as water started to flow; by the time a tunnel has two or three feet of water it would be effectively unusable.
The collateral damage to infrastructure should be minimal. The distances are short, the diameter of the required pipe is small, and the pipelines would run very close to the surface. As with the Egyptian tunnel operations, the impact of flooding on groundwater salinization would no doubt be raised. The extent of saltwater leakage through the tunnels into local groundwater would depend on the depth and construction of the tunnels and the configuration of the local aquifer. Gaza's shallow aquifer is already over-depleted, however, and ninety-five percent of its groundwater was considered unfit for public consumption as far back as 2017. The reason is that it's extensively contaminated with chemicals and sewage, as well as saltwater intrusion from the Mediterranean due to a long history of over pumping. Because of that, Gaza relies heavily on desalinization for potable water.
In the short term, think of flooding Gaza's tunnels as humanitarian assistance. By eliminating the need to keep bombing them, flooding would reduce civilian casualties and other collateral damage. In the long term, think of denying Hamas access to the tunnels as an A2AD stratagem. At the end of the war, there can be no complete destruction of Hamas, nor long-term peace out of Gaza, unless and until the Gaza tunnels are taken out.
Quote:
Also, the tunnels wouldn't have to be filled to capacity to generate the desired effect. The effect would begin as soon as water started to flow; by the time a tunnel has two or three feet of water it would be effectively unusable.
And? Their death/torture is already ensured.Quote:
THE INNOCENT HOSTAGES OF HAMAS ARE IN THOSE TUNNELS
Surrender = No 72 Virgins. They'd rather die.Houston Lee said:
The solution is for Hamas to unconditionally surrender to Israel. That would stop the war and the humanitarian crisis.
But, you don't hear anyone calling for this. Tells you all you need to know...
LMCane said:
I love to see strategy and tactics on the battlefield
however, author and many on here are forgetting one thing:
THE INNOCENT HOSTAGES OF HAMAS ARE IN THOSE TUNNELS
Unfortunate, tragic casualties of a war that Hamas started but Israel has to finish.LMCane said:
I love to see strategy and tactics on the battlefield
however, author and many on here are forgetting one thing:
THE INNOCENT HOSTAGES OF HAMAS ARE IN THOSE TUNNELS
Exactly. It's a pipe dream to think that the hostages will be rescued in any large numbers. If people don't think there is a terrorist sitting with any remaining hostages with orders to kill them all at the first sign of trouble then people are delusional. The hostages are dead already, even if they are still breathing today.Mowdy Ag said:LMCane said:
I love to see strategy and tactics on the battlefield
however, author and many on here are forgetting one thing:
THE INNOCENT HOSTAGES OF HAMAS ARE IN THOSE TUNNELS
What is the cost of the alternative?
IDF releases new footage of ground forces operating in the Gaza Strip. pic.twitter.com/mXQrHNaQXL
— Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian (@manniefabian) November 1, 2023
Dashcam footage shows a rocket impact on the Route 4 highway near Ashdod yesterday. Three people were lightly hurt. pic.twitter.com/u7m950Hy8L
— Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian (@manniefabian) November 1, 2023
Looks like #Israel hit Hamas tunnels filled with rockets and other explosives underneath Jabaliya refugee camp. Ground collapsed, Gazans fell into them, Hamas explosives started going off.
— Hussain Abdul-Hussain (@hahussain) October 31, 2023
So what could go wrong when storing arms/terrorists underneath Palestinians in Gaza? https://t.co/jQzLGLpHzI
Houston Lee said:
The solution is for Hamas to unconditionally surrender to Israel. That would stop the war and the humanitarian crisis.
But, you don't hear anyone calling for this. Tells you all you need to know...
Houston Lee said:
The solution is for Hamas to unconditionally surrender to Israel. That would stop the war and the humanitarian crisis.
But, you don't hear anyone calling for this. Tells you all you need to know...
Most of those coming towards the IDF would be suicide bombersHouston Lee said:Houston Lee said:
The solution is for Hamas to unconditionally surrender to Israel. That would stop the war and the humanitarian crisis.
But, you don't hear anyone calling for this. Tells you all you need to know...
The people in Gaza could just walk towards the Israeli forces and wave a white flag.
The Israeli army would have no choice but to take them in and remove them from the battlefield.
Hamas fighters doing this would have to be treated as prisoners of war.
It's so simple, but the hard heads in Gaza would rather die.
ABATTBQ11 said:Houston Lee said:
The solution is for Hamas to unconditionally surrender to Israel. That would stop the war and the humanitarian crisis.
But, you don't hear anyone calling for this. Tells you all you need to know...
Yep. If you really want peace and prosperity, stop the rocket attacks, knife attacks, shootings, suicide bombings, and barbaric attrocities targeting children and maybe your neighbor will stop bombing the **** or of you. If palestinians and their liberal lapdogs want peace and a ceasefire, maybe they should call for an end to hamas and the terrorists that keep instigating violence instead of genocide for the Jews.
Quote:
We will repeat October 7 again and again' - Hamas official.
"Israel is a country that has no place on our land," Hamas official Ghazi Hamad told Lebanese news outlet LBCI news this week, according to a report and translation from the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) released on Wednesday.
"We must remove that country," he continued.
"Nobody should blame us. On October 7, October 10, October one million - everything we do is justified."
Full text here
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-771199
This is good right? lolcaptkirk said:Looks like #Israel hit Hamas tunnels filled with rockets and other explosives underneath Jabaliya refugee camp. Ground collapsed, Gazans fell into them, Hamas explosives started going off.
— Hussain Abdul-Hussain (@hahussain) October 31, 2023
So what could go wrong when storing arms/terrorists underneath Palestinians in Gaza? https://t.co/jQzLGLpHzI
Yes. Nobody living in that camp was unaware that Hamas had facilities underneath them.2023NCAggies said:This is good right? lolcaptkirk said:Looks like #Israel hit Hamas tunnels filled with rockets and other explosives underneath Jabaliya refugee camp. Ground collapsed, Gazans fell into them, Hamas explosives started going off.
— Hussain Abdul-Hussain (@hahussain) October 31, 2023
So what could go wrong when storing arms/terrorists underneath Palestinians in Gaza? https://t.co/jQzLGLpHzI
Hogties said:Exactly. It's a pipe dream to think that the hostages will be rescued in any large numbers. If people don't think there is a terrorist sitting with any remaining hostages with orders to kill them all at the first sign of trouble then people are delusional. The hostages are dead already, even if they are still breathing today.Mowdy Ag said:LMCane said:
I love to see strategy and tactics on the battlefield
however, author and many on here are forgetting one thing:
THE INNOCENT HOSTAGES OF HAMAS ARE IN THOSE TUNNELS
What is the cost of the alternative?
And yeah, how many IDF special forces will die trying to go through the heavily defended tunnels just to "rescue" a warm corpse? That's the alternative to flooding the tunnels, or blowing every entrance you can find, or filling the tunnels with that foam and sealing the tunnels.
boulderaggie said:
I think it's more like 500 trapped in Gaza - i could be wrong, tho. Not sure about actual hostages held by Hamas