Israel/Hamas going at it

1,880,987 Views | 10660 Replies | Last: 10 hrs ago by fullback44
2023NCAggies
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Not a Bot said:

He is telling the truth. Lebanon is a hell of a complicated place. The majority of the people do not support Hezbollah and are Sunni or Christian. Hezbollah was allowed to get that powerful because Iran convinced the local Shia population that the Sunnis and Christians were keeping them poor on purpose and manipulated them into joining their cause. Their militia element was supposed to disband and never did, and the Lebanese government in general is not strong enough to reign them in.

Lebanon's shared power structure is supposed to provide equal power among Christians, Sunnis, and Shias but Hezbollah has gained outsized power. Hezbollah is a political party within Lebanon as well as the militia.

The Christian President (the President always has to be a Christian in Lebanon) has traded away a lot of his power to Hezbollah in exchange for money and security of the Christian population. Hezbollah runs Lebanon like the cartels.
So if they are a ally to us without Hezbollah, maybe we should take of them for them and train a loyal army and supply them with quipment over time.

You have to have more than Israel over there
JobSecurity
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AG
who could've seen this coming??

CDUB98
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What ia the UNRWA?
PrestigeWorldwideAg12
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CDUB98 said:

What ia the UNRWA?
United Nations Relief and Works Agency
nortex97
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The UNRWA is a partner in all respects to Hamas, where truth telling is a career ender. The people at the 'agency' are not just biased toward their side/politics, but benefit from funding growth while furthering their mission/propaganda directly.

The population boom in Gaza is one of the 'long term weapons' Hamas has planned to use to justify their actions, funded by UNRWA. This also drives arab resentment of these 'Palestinians' as they receive (without working) more than the average per capita worker in places like Jordan and Egypt. It's also structured to incentivize having many kids, of course.

My point is just that nothing the UNRWA puts out should be trusted. There's a reason 'team Biden's' clan of Iran apologists couldn't wait to 'restore' funding to it.
Mas89
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2023NCAggies said:

Not a Bot said:

He is telling the truth. Lebanon is a hell of a complicated place. The majority of the people do not support Hezbollah and are Sunni or Christian. Hezbollah was allowed to get that powerful because Iran convinced the local Shia population that the Sunnis and Christians were keeping them poor on purpose and manipulated them into joining their cause. Their militia element was supposed to disband and never did, and the Lebanese government in general is not strong enough to reign them in.

Lebanon's shared power structure is supposed to provide equal power among Christians, Sunnis, and Shias but Hezbollah has gained outsized power. Hezbollah is a political party within Lebanon as well as the militia.

The Christian President (the President always has to be a Christian in Lebanon) has traded away a lot of his power to Hezbollah in exchange for money and security of the Christian population. Hezbollah runs Lebanon like the cartels.
So if they are a ally to us without Hezbollah, maybe we should take of them for them and train a loyal army and supply them with quipment over time.

You have to have more than Israel over there
Would not work. For the most part they are not willing to fight for their country. They would prefer to emigrate to the west instead. Mostly the poor and lower middle class stay while those that can afford to have already gotten out. Which is a brain and resource drain.

The exact scenario played out in the Iranian Revolution in 1978-79. The crazies came in to take over and those that could fled to Europe and America. They did not put up much of a fight. They fled, taking their wealth and knowledge.
aggiehawg
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Quote:

So if they are a ally to us without Hezbollah, maybe we should take of them for them and train a loyal army and supply them with quipment over time.
That didn't work out too well for us in 1983.
dmart90
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Saw this yesterday In Parliament Square in London.



Saw maybe 4 or 5 "free Palestine" protestors wandering around the area, but that was it. The police were out in force.
Teslag
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jlAG97 said:

Rumors are the Israel might now be waiting for Biden to arrive sometime later this week before the ground invasion? Worst massacre since Holocaust and the Israeli govt seems more beholden to what world thinks or wants with each passing day

In the back of my mind I kept thinking they better move fast before claws get into them politically.
JFABNRGR
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Great Listen but I don't know who this guy is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelHamasWar/comments/178vhna/interesting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
LMCane
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Waffledynamics said:

JobSecurity said:




Do I understand this correctly? Is the Lebanese military in part or in whole at odds with Hezbollah? That could spell problems for Hez if they get involved and suddenly have a massive thorn in their side from Lebanon while trying to contend with Israel.
Not at all

the Lebanese Army is much weaker than Hizbullah.

and has many Shia Muslims in that Army who would be loyal to the Hizbullah under Hassan Nasrallah.

the current Lebanese Government is allied with Hizbullah in their Parliament
LMCane
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2023NCAggies said:

Not a Bot said:

He is telling the truth. Lebanon is a hell of a complicated place. The majority of the people do not support Hezbollah and are Sunni or Christian. Hezbollah was allowed to get that powerful because Iran convinced the local Shia population that the Sunnis and Christians were keeping them poor on purpose and manipulated them into joining their cause. Their militia element was supposed to disband and never did, and the Lebanese government in general is not strong enough to reign them in.

Lebanon's shared power structure is supposed to provide equal power among Christians, Sunnis, and Shias but Hezbollah has gained outsized power. Hezbollah is a political party within Lebanon as well as the militia.

The Christian President (the President always has to be a Christian in Lebanon) has traded away a lot of his power to Hezbollah in exchange for money and security of the Christian population. Hezbollah runs Lebanon like the cartels.
So if they are a ally to us without Hezbollah, maybe we should take of them for them and train a loyal army and supply them with quipment over time.

You have to have more than Israel over there
The Israelis tried this back in 1982 when going to war against the PLO in Lebanon.

because at the time there was a strong Christian Phalangist group that was willing to sign a peace treaty with Israel.

of course, the Iranians and Syrians found out about it and had Gamayel assassinated by a car bomb before he could sign the peace treaty.

and now we have Hizbullah controlling Lebanon instead of the PLO
LMCane
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Not a Bot said:

It was a well-planned operation by a very small group of people. Most of the fighters likely did not find out until day of which is why they were handed their instructions in a packet.

Zeihan's theory is that Israel was possibly hyperfocused on Hezbollah and didn't view Hamas as big of a threat. Just like 9/11, they will likely be able to put the pieces together after the fact and realized they should have known what was coming.

They had a lot of automated systems that either failed or were taken out, including their warning alert systems. They may have been physically unable to actually call for the response due to hacking or communication jamming. The attack first took out the wall sensors and then the guard towers and automated turrets. It's possible they were relying on those systems more than they should have been. They were also likely a bit understaffed due to the holiday.

They were responding to a lot of different attacks in a lot of different areas simultaneously so there was likely a lot of confusion and fog.

Whatever happens in the next few weeks, I'm pretty convinced the Netanyahu government is done once the emergency is over. He was already hanging on by a thread. This failure will absolutely lead to a new government in israel.

Very well stated and I think Bot is 100% correct in his recitation of what went wrong.

with Israelis it's always better to blame arrogance and complacency over intentional actions.
LMCane
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while the leftist media has moved on to now covering the "poor suffering Palestinians" let's not forget what started all of this:




Ayelet Arnin, 22, a news editor with the Kan public broadcaster, was murdered by Hamas terrorists at the Supernova music festival near Gaza on October 7.

"Ayelet started working for us a year ago and was the epitome of professionalism and diligence, and always strived for perfection in her work and was very much loved by all of us," Kan said in a statement confirming her death.

Kan political reporter Michael Shemesh described Arnin as "matter-of-fact, professional, hard-working, kind-hearted and never did harm to anyone, ever. I feel lucky that I had the privilege of working with her almost every day at Kan."
JobSecurity
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CDUB98
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Just checking to be sure.

Is everyone else's liveatream dead quiet and two of the cams filled with a random assortment of news agency images?
Furlock Bones
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10s to 100s of thousands are at the Rafah Gate. Egypt won't open it. There is a massive convoy of trucks filled with food, water, and aid. Egypt won't open the gate.

Why isn't the world media calling out Egypt? Why are there no protests against Egypt not helping? Why is there a border in the first place? It's inhumane to keep a border closed.
torrid
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Not a Bot said:

It was a well-planned operation by a very small group of people. Most of the fighters likely did not find out until day of which is why they were handed their instructions in a packet.

Zeihan's theory is that Israel was possibly hyperfocused on Hezbollah and didn't view Hamas as big of a threat. Just like 9/11, they will likely be able to put the pieces together after the fact and realized they should have known what was coming.

They had a lot of automated systems that either failed or were taken out, including their warning alert systems. They may have been physically unable to actually call for the response due to hacking or communication jamming. The attack first took out the wall sensors and then the guard towers and automated turrets. It's possible they were relying on those systems more than they should have been. They were also likely a bit understaffed due to the holiday.

They were responding to a lot of different attacks in a lot of different areas simultaneously so there was likely a lot of confusion and fog.

Whatever happens in the next few weeks, I'm pretty convinced the Netanyahu government is done once the emergency is over. He was already hanging on by a thread. This failure will absolutely lead to a new government in israel.


Excellent analysis.

It seems like they were monitoring their border with Gaza not much better than we monitor ours with Mexico, relying too much on cameras and sensors with no adequate plan of response.

We've seen the stories of kibbutzim (had to look that up) which survived relatively unscathed because they had active security personnel.
nhamp07
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Furlock Bones said:

10s to 100s of thousands are at the Rafah Gate. Egypt won't open it. There is a massive convoy of trucks filled with food, water, and aid. Egypt won't open the gate.

Why isn't the world media calling out Egypt? Why are there no protests against Egypt not helping? Why is there a border in the first place? It's inhumane to keep a border closed.
:confused:
aggiehawg
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Quote:

Iran tried to pressure Israel into ending its revenge airstrikes on Gaza by claiming Monday that the Hamas terrorists long sponsored by Tehran would be willing to free the 199 hostages now known to have been taken during the slaughter of more than 1,400 people.

Iranian Foreign Ministry Nasser Kanaani claimed that Hamas is "ready" to release the hostages, but doing so would be "impossible" under Israeli airstrikes in the region.

He reckoned that the terror group "stated that they are ready to take necessary measures to release the citizens and civilians held by resistant groups, but their point was that such measures require preparations that are impossible under daily bombardment by the Zionists against various parts of Gaza," Kanaani said.

Despite this, Hamas has yet to make such an offer publicly.
So does Iran control Hamas or not?LINK

JaneDoe02
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CDUB98 said:

Just checking to be sure.

Is everyone else's liveatream dead quiet and two of the cams filled with a random assortment of news agency images?
All 4 are working for me on Audionix (Steve) feed (but no audio or it's just very quiet)
Furlock Bones
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i've been told this the "world's largest open air prison" that Israel controls. a term repeated by the UN, governments, lefties, etc. yet, there is another country with a key to that "prison". so, again, why is Egypt keeping the "prison door" locked?

you are correct. it's all very confusing.
zgolfz85
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Furlock Bones said:

i've been told this the "world's largest open air prison" that Israel controls. a term repeated by the UN, governments, lefties, etc. yet, there is another country with a key to that "prison". so, again, why is Egypt keeping the "prison door" locked?

you are correct. it's all very confusing.
it goes well beyond Egypt. All of these surrounding Arab nations have had a century plus to take on palestinian refugees and simply haven't. There's a LOT that goes into that and others have linked great articles diving into that, but to me, it's always been incredibly telling.

The fact is, it's not simply a muslims love other muslims deal. At the highest level and when compared to Christianity and Judaism, sure, but if it's muslim v muslim, it's at least as contentious depending on which muslims you're pinning against each other. As much as the Palestinians are sympathized with in the arab world, they're also just as frustrating to their neighbors...for a litany of reasons.
Furlock Bones
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BBC Breaking News

UN: No progress has been made on opening the Rafah Crossing.


Furlock Bones
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oh I'm aware why Egypt is doing it. i'm being facetious on that part. the central tenet of my posts is where is the international outcry against Egypt?

you have to remember, all borders are inhumane. or so we have been told and scolded.
torrid
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Iran tried to pressure Israel into ending its revenge airstrikes on Gaza by claiming Monday that the Hamas terrorists long sponsored by Tehran would be willing to free the 199 hostages now known to have been taken during the slaughter of more than 1,400 people.

Iranian Foreign Ministry Nasser Kanaani claimed that Hamas is "ready" to release the hostages, but doing so would be "impossible" under Israeli airstrikes in the region.

He reckoned that the terror group "stated that they are ready to take necessary measures to release the citizens and civilians held by resistant groups, but their point was that such measures require preparations that are impossible under daily bombardment by the Zionists against various parts of Gaza," Kanaani said.

Despite this, Hamas has yet to make such an offer publicly.
So does Iran control Hamas or not?LINK


Created a monster they can no longer control.
javajaws
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Egypt won't open the border because they care more about increasing the pressure against Israel instead of helping the Palestinian people. They also know if they let the Palestinians into Egypt that Israel will force them all out and never let them return.

But it boggles my mind why nobody calls them out on this BS.
aggiehawg
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torrid said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Iran tried to pressure Israel into ending its revenge airstrikes on Gaza by claiming Monday that the Hamas terrorists long sponsored by Tehran would be willing to free the 199 hostages now known to have been taken during the slaughter of more than 1,400 people.

Iranian Foreign Ministry Nasser Kanaani claimed that Hamas is "ready" to release the hostages, but doing so would be "impossible" under Israeli airstrikes in the region.

He reckoned that the terror group "stated that they are ready to take necessary measures to release the citizens and civilians held by resistant groups, but their point was that such measures require preparations that are impossible under daily bombardment by the Zionists against various parts of Gaza," Kanaani said.

Despite this, Hamas has yet to make such an offer publicly.
So does Iran control Hamas or not?LINK


Created a monster they can no longer control.
But they (Iranians) can now say they have the power to get the hostages released? That doesn't track.
LRHF
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javajaws said:

Egypt won't open the border because they care more about increasing the pressure against Israel instead of helping the Palestinian people. They also know if they let the Palestinians into Egypt that Israel will force them all out and never let them return.

But it boggles my mind why nobody calls them out on this BS.


Hmmm… I wouldn't let them in either
CDUB98
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Fail on Israel's part?

The Steve cam is showing a live feed from Gaza hospital. Doesn't that now make two deadlines Israel has let slip without leveling it?

Seems Hamas call the bluff and won.
jagvocate
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Israel prefers the USA shed the blood in the Middle East
richardag
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Not a Bot said:

Correct.

Disagree with prior poster about them being a vassal state of Russia. Their goal is to be the dominant player in the ME and they aligned with whomever would deal with them. They aren't friends and really don't gave much strategic to offer each other except cooperation in annoying the US. Iran isn't taking orders from them.
I tend to agree. The Iranian leadership is insane and does not respect life at all, even their own nor their citizens lives.
The Lost Youth of Iran's Child Soldiers JULY 21, 2017
Quote from the article:
  • while the government of the Islamic Republic was massacring its opponents and members of the opposition in prison, many children were given arms and sent to the slaughter houses of the war for the "love of country" or the "love of martyrdom".
  • As a result, hundreds of young students and adults have been killed in their quest to visit the "light"
  • a 13-year-old boy who, on October 30, 1980, pulled the pin out of a grenade in his hand and leaped under an advancing Iraqi tank, killing himself and disabling the tank. Now, through an act of parliament, October 30 is celebrated as the Student Basij Day.
  • during the eight-year war with Iraq, more than 33,000 high school students were killed, 2,853 were injured and 2,433 were taken prisoner. According to a report by human rights organization Child Soldiers International, "boys as young as nine were reportedly used in human wave attacks and to serve as mine sweepers in the war with Iraq."
  • children's lack of military training: They were used as cannon fodder in human-wave attacks launched by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps against the Iraqi forces."
There's more.
Someone mentioned that Islam is being used by the fundamentalist leaders as a death cult, I believe that poster was correct.

ETA: to clarify any country's leaders that would doo this does not GAS what any other country thinks including Putin's cluster ##$& of a nation.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
LostInLA07
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AG
Egypt doesn't want 2MM Palestinian refugees and Hamas sympathizers in their country, and neither do any other Muslim countries including Iran. I imagine opening that gate would be a mad house similar to the Biden Afghanistan retreat images and videos we saw. It definitely won't be an orderly departure of 500 dual citizens and then they calmly close the gate again. The optics of not keeping the gate open and only letting out some Americans, even if that were somehow possible, would be pretty bad.

Also, someone above correctly stated that the Egyptians know any Palestinian who leaves Gaza is almost certainly not going back and, given the opportunity, Israel would obviously take full control of Gaza if only a manageable number of Palestinians remained. Then Egypt is left with their own Palestinian / Iran proxy problem to deal with, and who is going to help them with that? Meanwhile, Egypt would have essentially helped Israel take over Gaza and their fellow Arab nations wouldn't be happy about that.

Why would Egypt do all of that just to help Biden get a headline for saving 500 dual citizen Americans? It makes zero sense from their perspective.
74OA
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Here's a very good background read on Hamas and its sudden change in strategy.

PIVOT
JobSecurity
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Don't think it's the same hospital. Can't figure out which one they're showing on stream
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