Israel/Hamas going at it

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Rossticus
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In reply to AgDotCom • 4:28p, 10/13/23
AgDotCom said:
Kind of amazing the way the nations are aligning as prophesied millennia ago in the Ezekiel 38 war.

We have Russia and Iran already in the picture. If Sudan, Turkey, Libya and a couple of the -stans come on board.............game on.


Russian ideologues certainly aren't playing coy with where they stand on Israel.

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PLUM LOCO
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4:29p, 10/13/23
AG
CRUSH'EM, NOW!
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Rossticus
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4:31p, 10/13/23
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Sharpshooter
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In reply to Rossticus • 4:32p, 10/13/23
AG
Rossticus said:
If true, may the One True God be with them.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Rossticus • 4:34p, 10/13/23
AG


Soviets were saying the same thing since 1948. They haven't changed a bit.
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nortex97
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In reply to LMCane • 4:35p, 10/13/23
AG
LMCane said:
JFABNRGR said:
Mathguy64 said:
45-70Ag said:
Get back to me when the Qatari offer to resettle the Palestinians in Qatar. They could fly them all in and set every refugee all up in housing tomorrow.

Egypt could open the Sinai to all of them and set up huge temporary camps to care for the general population while the combat takes place. But they have refused. They have offered to send IN aid but they refused to let anyone OUT. The Sauds could do the same. Offer to resettle anyone who wants into northern SA for a refugee camp. And they won't.

For the last 80 years any one of these other nations could have generously made this offer and they haven't. And in the last 20 plus years the Qatari or Sauds certainly would have had the financial means and infrastructure to make this happen. Like it or not no one wants this group of people in their own country.

To be fair the Palestinians in Gaza don't want to leave. But they don't have a choice because no one else wants them.
Don't those countries use temporary workers from several regions around the world?

Completely agree, but to them palestinians are a scourge and I never knew the history as to why.
Anybody have the cliff notes on this?

You are inquiring as to why the other Arabs dislike the Palestinians?

because the PLO tried to overthrow Jordan in 1970, they tried to overthrow Lebanon from 1976-82

because the Palestinians refuse every peace deal since 1936, because they kill and rape and pillage and are bad for business and bad for the Gulf monarchies

and the Palestinians sided with Saddam Hussein and the ISIS in the last 20 years.
Mostly right but just to add to the political complexity the muslim brotherhood essentially begat/shot off Hamas as a political entity and they tried to support Morsi of course before the military put Al Sisi back in power in Egypt. The Palestinians have also been used as pawns for 70+ years; Arafat was told what to do by the Arab power brokers, who benefit from using the "cause" to keep their ignoramus power bases enraged/on their side.

Also have to keep in mind some of the tribal nature of the arab factions (Saudi's, the Emirati's, Jordanians etc.). Layer that on with the Shia vs. Sunni parts (Hezbollah and Iran being the Shia mainly, but also 25% of Iraq, Iranians being Persian and not arab), and you have a lot of that stuff that makes them all also hate and distrust each other. Yemen is also a civil war between arab clients (shia for Iran and Wahhabists etc. allied with Saudi's).

Nothing, and I mean nothing at all is ever what it seems in the Middle East. Jewish politics are also every bit as complex in Israel and mystify me although I think again they are clearly the 'good guys' in this one. If you want to the add a final layer of Byzantine complexity think about how the Brits screwed up the area deliberately after WW1 and 2 and then how our own idiocy in gulf war's 1 and 2 also wound up being largely counterproductive to any resolution, before even John F Kerry and Valerie Jarrett's big brains got involved.
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Raiderjay
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In reply to Rossticus • 4:38p, 10/13/23
Rossticus said:
God speed and finish the job.....
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aggiehawg
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4:45p, 10/13/23
AG
Question about the sounds now being heard on the feeds.

In nights past, you could hear what clearly were jets dropping down for a bombing run. Now it is more of a whooshing noise. Are those ground based missiles? Or what?

TIA.
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Rossticus
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In reply to deddog • 4:46p, 10/13/23
deddog said:
maddiedou said:
Yep. I dont like the delay becauae it just gives hamas more time to set traps and have war meetings in person
Or it gives Israel more time to see who's being transported and where


And if they think they know who's being transported where then this is the result…

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Raiderjay
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In reply to aggiehawg • 4:47p, 10/13/23
aggiehawg said:
Question about the sounds now being heard on the feeds.

In nights past, you could hear what clearly were jets dropping down for a bombing run. Now it is more of a whooshing noise. Are those ground based missiles? Or what?

TIA.
IF tanks are in Gaza, could be tank fire.....
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bonfarr
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In reply to nortex97 • 4:47p, 10/13/23
AG
nortex97 said:
LMCane said:
JFABNRGR said:
Mathguy64 said:
45-70Ag said:
Get back to me when the Qatari offer to resettle the Palestinians in Qatar. They could fly them all in and set every refugee all up in housing tomorrow.

Egypt could open the Sinai to all of them and set up huge temporary camps to care for the general population while the combat takes place. But they have refused. They have offered to send IN aid but they refused to let anyone OUT. The Sauds could do the same. Offer to resettle anyone who wants into northern SA for a refugee camp. And they won't.

For the last 80 years any one of these other nations could have generously made this offer and they haven't. And in the last 20 plus years the Qatari or Sauds certainly would have had the financial means and infrastructure to make this happen. Like it or not no one wants this group of people in their own country.

To be fair the Palestinians in Gaza don't want to leave. But they don't have a choice because no one else wants them.
Don't those countries use temporary workers from several regions around the world?

Completely agree, but to them palestinians are a scourge and I never knew the history as to why.
Anybody have the cliff notes on this?

You are inquiring as to why the other Arabs dislike the Palestinians?

because the PLO tried to overthrow Jordan in 1970, they tried to overthrow Lebanon from 1976-82

because the Palestinians refuse every peace deal since 1936, because they kill and rape and pillage and are bad for business and bad for the Gulf monarchies

and the Palestinians sided with Saddam Hussein and the ISIS in the last 20 years.
Mostly right but just to add to the political complexity the muslim brotherhood essentially begat/shot off Hamas as a political entity and they tried to support Morsi of course before the military put Al Sisi back in power in Egypt. The Palestinians have also been used as pawns for 70+ years; Arafat was told what to do by the Arab power brokers, who benefit from using the "cause" to keep their ignoramus power bases enraged/on their side.

Also have to keep in mind some of the tribal nature of the arab factions (Saudi's, the Emirati's, Jordanians etc.). Layer that on with the Shia vs. Sunni parts (Hezbollah and Iran being the Shia mainly, but also 25% of Iraq, Iranians being Persian and not arab), and you have a lot of that stuff that makes them all also hate and distrust each other. Yemen is also a civil war between arab clients (shia for Iran and Wahhabists etc. allied with Saudi's).

Nothing, and I mean nothing at all is ever what it seems in the Middle East. Jewish politics are also every bit as complex in Israel and mystify me although I think again they are clearly the 'good guys' in this one. If you want to the add a final layer of Byzantine complexity think about how the Brits screwed up the area deliberately after WW1 and 2 and then how our own idiocy in gulf war's 1 and 2 also wound up being largely counterproductive to any resolution, before even John F Kerry and Valerie Jarrett's big brains got involved.


This article is a pretty good summary of why the Arabs dislike the Palestinians.

https://besacenter.org/do-arabs-hate-palestinians/

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C@LAg
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4:52p, 10/13/23


not sure if real or staged, or disinformation but whomever is not even trying.
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LMCane
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In reply to TAMUallen • 4:54p, 10/13/23
TAMUallen said:
BlackGold said:
nortex97 said:
Bubblez said:
Destroying that tunnel network is going to be bloody.
It doesn't have to be, anymore, with expendable unmanned suicide/armed drones. That's one of the other theories (beyond the Saudi deal with Israel, US election next year, Ukraine war, etc) as to why this was urgent.

If the Israeli's keep getting better and better at drones/AI a la Ukraine-Russia too then the 'resistance' methods (of war crimes) with tunnels etc. won't work well much longer. And it's not just little drones, but the AI stuff with facial recognition to spot terrorists/persons in a crowd. A lot of that is scary from a '1984' perspective here but it could be a real asset in a place like Israel surrounded/inclusive of a sub-population of murderous scum.
Israel has already said they can use videos and hamas terrorists cell phone data to locate every terrorist who came into Israel on Saturday. They have already started targeting them. I'm sure a lot of it is done using state of the art facial recognition software amongst other methods.


It'd be a lot easier than state of the art facial recognition if they're dumb enough to attack with their gps enabled phones on and then go home with them on too.

Your phone is constantly uploading data on where you are and it's not hard to collect that data either. It's like the same thing as a tracking collar on a wild animal that's being studied except easier and real time since the phone is constantly connected


the problem is that while we in the West think Hamas are uneducated idiots because they murder babies-

many of them are doctors and engineers.

Hamas was using the cell phone data of the israelis on the kibbutzim in the South to target and find them in different shelters and to use them as GPS seekers for their missile barrages.

they would call Israeli cell phone numbers and then launch a strike.
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deddog
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In reply to Raiderjay • 4:56p, 10/13/23
AG
Raiderjay said:
aggiehawg said:
Question about the sounds now being heard on the feeds.

In nights past, you could hear what clearly were jets dropping down for a bombing run. Now it is more of a whooshing noise. Are those ground based missiles? Or what?

TIA.
IF tanks are in Gaza, could be tank fire.....
If tanks are in Gaza (in the purview of the CAMs, i would expect to hear a lot more booms, and small arms fire, so i don't think that's it)
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C@LAg
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4:56p, 10/13/23
https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-join-to-call-on-biden-administration-to-support-israel/

Republican Governors Join to Call on Biden Administration to Support Israel

https://www.rga.org/support-israel/

Today, 19 Republican governors, led by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, sent a letter to the Biden Administration regarding the recent terrorist attacks in Israel.

The letter pledges the governors' steadfast support to the United States' ally, Israel, following the attacks perpetrated against Israel's sovereignty and innocent civilians on October 7, 2023. Additionally, the letter condemns these acts of terrorism led by Iran-backed Hamas, and calls for action by the Biden Administration for support for Israel.

Read the letter here.

Led by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, additional signatories include: Alabama Governor Kay Ivey, Alaska Governor Mike Dunleavy, Arkansas Governor Sarah Sanders, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, Idaho Governor Brad Little, Indiana Governor Eric Holcomb, Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds, Mississippi Governor Tate Reeves, New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, Nevada Governor Joe Lombardo, Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt, South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem, Tennessee Governor Bill Lee, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin, and Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon.
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LMCane
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In reply to RONA Ag • 4:58p, 10/13/23
RONA Ag said:
TxAgIB said:
Nitro Power said:
Agthatbuilds said:
****ing cowards


Time for special forces to go to work


Could you imagine (if they are still alive) being a parent or relative and seeing your infant son/daughter being on the news like that?
That's why several pages back one of the Israeli fathers originally from Ireland/Scotland was being interviewed and exclaimed "Yes!" with a smile

when told his 8 year old daughter was found murdered.

because he stated there are worse things than death- one of them being a hostage in Gaza.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to deddog • 4:58p, 10/13/23
AG
deddog said:
Raiderjay said:
aggiehawg said:
Question about the sounds now being heard on the feeds.

In nights past, you could hear what clearly were jets dropping down for a bombing run. Now it is more of a whooshing noise. Are those ground based missiles? Or what?

TIA.
IF tanks are in Gaza, could be tank fire.....
If tanks are in Gaza (in the purview of the CAMs, i would expect to hear a lot more booms, and small arms fire, so i don't think that's it)
So what else could it be? Just a difference in the direction from whence they are coming?

ETA: HIMARS? MLRS? What is that noise?
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A_Gang_Ag_06
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In reply to aggiehawg • 5:00p, 10/13/23
AG
aggiehawg said:


Soviets were saying the same thing since 1948. They haven't changed a bit.


Russia can't even invade and conquer their own backyard. They should probably sit this Twitter war out.
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nortex97
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In reply to bonfarr • 5:03p, 10/13/23
AG
Yes that's very good, I forgot to even note (partially for brevity) the role of the UN agencies, or Syria even. I'm sure there are some good books out there about why everyone basically hates the 'Palestinian refugees.'

Sorry everyone else, I'll try not to derail this further on the history…

One thing that is timeless, is that the Hamas/Palestinians are actually pretty bad at propaganda:




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LMCane
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In reply to Ag87H2O • 5:04p, 10/13/23
Ag87H2O said:
10andBOUNCE said:
US: Yeah, actually I am going to need you to go ahead and come in on Saturday.



"The report also emphasizes that Washington has urged Tel Aviv to adhere to rules of engagement during its military operations."

Sure thing U.S. - Our rules of engagement are shoot on site and destroy with extreme prejudice. No problemo.
that's a BS report

because any real news article would state "Washington has urged Jerusalem" which is the American recognized capitol of Israel.
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chickencoupe16
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In reply to nortex97 • 5:10p, 10/13/23
AG
nortex97 said:
Yes that's very good, I forgot to even note (partially for brevity) the role of the UN agencies, or Syria even. I'm sure there are some good books out there about why everyone basically hates the 'Palestinian refugees.'

Sorry everyone else, I'll try not to derail this further on the history…

One thing that is timeless, is that the Hamas/Palestinians are actually pretty bad at propaganda:






Seems to not add up. Maps? Okay, sure. Reminders to make sure to kill, rape, and kidnap as many as possible? Seems pretty straightforward. Why would you need reminders?
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2NU
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5:11p, 10/13/23
El Al breaking tradition and flying tomorrow, Saturday, on the Sabbath, in order to evacuate Americans and bring reservists back to Israel.
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C@LAg
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In reply to chickencoupe16 • 5:11p, 10/13/23
chickencoupe16 said:



Seems to not add up. Maps? Okay, sure. Reminders to make sure to kill, rape, and kidnap as many as possible? Seems pretty straightforward. Why would you need reminders?
hamas is not made up of the best and brightest.
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chickencoupe16
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In reply to C@LAg • 5:17p, 10/13/23
AG
C@LAg said:
chickencoupe16 said:



Seems to not add up. Maps? Okay, sure. Reminders to make sure to kill, rape, and kidnap as many as possible? Seems pretty straightforward. Why would you need reminders?
hamas is not made up of the best and brightest.


You're certainly right, but I think kill, rape, capture seem to be easily grasped. Pretty succinct commander's intent. The capture part is probably the only one that needs much reinforcing at all.
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Rapier108
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In reply to chickencoupe16 • 5:27p, 10/13/23
chickencoupe16 said:
nortex97 said:
Yes that's very good, I forgot to even note (partially for brevity) the role of the UN agencies, or Syria even. I'm sure there are some good books out there about why everyone basically hates the 'Palestinian refugees.'

Sorry everyone else, I'll try not to derail this further on the history…

One thing that is timeless, is that the Hamas/Palestinians are actually pretty bad at propaganda:






Seems to not add up. Maps? Okay, sure. Reminders to make sure to kill, rape, and kidnap as many as possible? Seems pretty straightforward. Why would you need reminders?
The people they send to do these attacks are not their best or brightest.

Ask anyone who served in Iraq or Afghanistan and they'll tell you that the jihadies often send people who are basically functional ******s to do the dirty work.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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TAMUallen
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5:30p, 10/13/23
AG
Livestream seems dead.

Very quiet compared to how it had been and clearly hamas has ordered lights out
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Sharpshooter
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In reply to TAMUallen • 5:33p, 10/13/23
AG
TAMUallen said:
Livestream seems dead.

Very quiet compared to how it had been and clearly hamas has ordered lights out
Or, IDF cut power.
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TAMUallen
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In reply to Sharpshooter • 5:35p, 10/13/23
AG
Sharpshooter said:
TAMUallen said:
Livestream seems dead.

Very quiet compared to how it had been and clearly hamas has ordered lights out
Or, IDF cut power.


Wasn't their only power plant offline long ago?
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Sharpshooter
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In reply to TAMUallen • 5:37p, 10/13/23
AG
TAMUallen said:
Sharpshooter said:
TAMUallen said:
Livestream seems dead.

Very quiet compared to how it had been and clearly hamas has ordered lights out
Or, IDF cut power.


Wasn't their only power plant offline long ago?
Don't know about long ago as it has only been a week; but, yes.

Edited to say, the lights have been on all week. Why?
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Who?mikejones!
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5:41p, 10/13/23
Been working most of the day. What are the updates?
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zgolfz85
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5:41p, 10/13/23
AG
https://www.axios.com/2023/10/13/hamas-israel-war-russia-un-security-council-ceasefire

This is one of the more insane things I've seen from the Russians, which is saying a lot
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Who?mikejones!
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5:43p, 10/13/23
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Who?mikejones!
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5:46p, 10/13/23
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5:47p, 10/13/23
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GAC06
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In reply to aggiehawg • 5:51p, 10/13/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
deddog said:
Raiderjay said:
aggiehawg said:
Question about the sounds now being heard on the feeds.

In nights past, you could hear what clearly were jets dropping down for a bombing run. Now it is more of a whooshing noise. Are those ground based missiles? Or what?

TIA.
IF tanks are in Gaza, could be tank fire.....
If tanks are in Gaza (in the purview of the CAMs, i would expect to hear a lot more booms, and small arms fire, so i don't think that's it)
So what else could it be? Just a difference in the direction from whence they are coming?

ETA: HIMARS? MLRS? What is that noise?


Not sure what you're hearing but the jets don't need to "drop down" to attack.
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