Israel/Hamas going at it

1,887,479 Views | 10678 Replies | Last: 15 hrs ago by UTExan
infinity ag
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Stlkofta said:

infinity ag said:

Stlkofta said:

Surrendering to the Taliban.

Paying tribute to Iran.

Funding Hamas….from Day One.

This the worst foreign policy POTUS we have ever had and it isn't close.



Well, admit it. All Presidents, both D and R have done things like this. We funded terrorism in Pakistan as well as long as it did not touch us.
On the economic front, we built up China until they became the global menace they are today.
Biden is not getting a pass on this or any of his other foreign policy failures with the claim "they all do it."

Even Obama didn't surrender to the Taliban.

With regard to Pakistan, you sometimes have to deal with a slime nation in order to advance overall foreign policy goals. Pakistan was essential to the planning and development of Afghanistan operations and could have been a far bigger issue for us and our assets in that country.

Saudi Arabia aren't princes amongst nations and we all know that. But as a counter to Iran, who is a far more dangerous nation to American foreign policy interests, the Saudis have to be in our equation warts and all.

What was the foreign policy benefit to funding Hamas? What was the foreign policy benefit of funding Iran under Obama and now Biden?

As far as the CCP, only one President authorized the mass transfer of technology allowing the Chinese to be where they are today. That was a Democrat as well. After Nixon, the interest was primarily in opening China to American overseas business with an eye towards countering the Soviets in the Cold War era. In other words, that market-oriented interest represented a return to an American foreign policy goal that existed from the very founding of our nation.



I am not saying that Biden should get a pass. I am just putting things in context to say that nothing is really new. All our Presidents have done similar things while talking high and mighty.
There are ALWAYS excuses one can give for moral transgressions. Like the cheating wife whose excuse is "but but he did not give me any attention". Sorry, not acceptable. Either you are morally upright or you aren't. No excuse for funding terrorist nations at all.
Claverack
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infinity ag said:





I am not saying that Biden should get a pass. I am just putting things in context to say that nothing is really new. All our Presidents have done similar things while talking high and mighty.
There are ALWAYS excuses one can give for moral transgressions. Like the cheating wife whose excuse is "but but he did not give me any attention". Sorry, not acceptable. Either you are morally upright or you aren't. No excuse for funding terrorist nations at all.

We funded the Soviet Union in World War II. Was that a morally upright decision in your opinion?

Giving Stalin, a butcher of innocents on a far higher scale than Hitler in the 1930s, funds to fight may not have been a morally upright decision. But it was the right call to make as we were both fighting against the Nazis in that war.

In the eyes of our Turkish allies, the Kurds are terrorists and should be treated as such. Do this mean we have to cease assisting Kurds? Does this mean we no longer engage with them at all because they may at times engage against the Turks? No. There has been a distinct and obvious benefit to an alliance with Kurdish forces.

There is no equivalent benefit to giving Hamas funding. There is no equivalent benefit to funding Iran's foreign policy goals throughout the Middle East.

tremble
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AG
Bull****
YouBet
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AG
I don't care that we left Afghanistan. We should have for a million reasons. The way we left it was criminally incompetent and he should have been impeached for that alone. If not for the weapons we left, it would be just another ****hole ME country like many others that all you can do is contain.
2000AgPhD
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The religion of peace strikes again...
Fenrir
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Stlkofta said:

Not a Bot said:

The Afghanistan cards had been dealt long before then. We were funneling money to a fake army that existed only on paper. The Afghanistan papers were leaked in (iirc) 2011, but no one reported on it. The CIA and DOD knew that the Afghani Army was a walking pile of crap and couldn't do anything, but at the same time we're telling the public and Congress that everything was going great.
Yeah. That is why no Taliban offensive ever got that far off the ground while Trump was President.

SIGAR reports point to the effectiveness of the Afghan Air Force and the Afghan Special Forces. The main body ANA was not all that good. But it was good enough to fight in the way we trained it to fight.

President Biden took away logistical funding from the two most effective segments of the Afghan military structure we built and trained in our way of fighting. That created the conditions for an effective Taliban offensive, as President Biden and his team stripped the Afghan military of its ability to fight as we had spent decades training it to fight.

Now we see the consequences of Biden's surrender to the Taliban at work here in tandem with his ridiculous decisions to fund Hamas and pay tribute to Iran. The chickens for a weak and insidious President have come home to roost.

No amount of blame-shifting is going to save him from the fact he is as terrible a President as he is a human being.


I'll believe it when I see it. The media, fed bureaucracy, and Dem party circle the wagons better than anyone else. Look at all the **** he has managed to scurry out of like a rat and look at how many lefty posters even say a word about what's happening. They don't care that our federal government led by their party helped supply this attack. It doesn't involve Trump so they don't care.
nortex97
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AG


It bears noting again that Egypt also has a blockade/has blockaded for some time the Gaza Strip because the populace there/Hamas has no end to their hatred.



YouBet
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Fenrir said:

Stlkofta said:

Not a Bot said:

The Afghanistan cards had been dealt long before then. We were funneling money to a fake army that existed only on paper. The Afghanistan papers were leaked in (iirc) 2011, but no one reported on it. The CIA and DOD knew that the Afghani Army was a walking pile of crap and couldn't do anything, but at the same time we're telling the public and Congress that everything was going great.
Yeah. That is why no Taliban offensive ever got that far off the ground while Trump was President.

SIGAR reports point to the effectiveness of the Afghan Air Force and the Afghan Special Forces. The main body ANA was not all that good. But it was good enough to fight in the way we trained it to fight.

President Biden took away logistical funding from the two most effective segments of the Afghan military structure we built and trained in our way of fighting. That created the conditions for an effective Taliban offensive, as President Biden and his team stripped the Afghan military of its ability to fight as we had spent decades training it to fight.

Now we see the consequences of Biden's surrender to the Taliban at work here in tandem with his ridiculous decisions to fund Hamas and pay tribute to Iran. The chickens for a weak and insidious President have come home to roost.

No amount of blame-shifting is going to save him from the fact he is as terrible a President as he is a human being.


I'll believe it when I see it. The media, fed bureaucracy, and Dem party circle the wagons better than anyone else. Look at all the **** he has managed to scurry out of like a rat and look at how many lefty posters even say a word about what's happening. They don't care that our federal government led by their party helped supply this attack. It doesn't involve Trump so they don't care.


Proof is this thread. Almost none of our regular leftists have commented even once. They support what has happened here because everything to them is a means to an end.
YouBet
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AG
Also, we have a whole lotta people in this country that need to be deported. I would start with the US News and World Report top 10 colleges since all of those organizations have been infiltrated and infested with traitors and future terrorists.
Teslag
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I haven't even sensed a coherent talking point among media talking heads and democrat politicians. It's disjointed and they aren't sure how they want to approach it. This attack was so completely disgusting and one sided in terms of who to blame, they are having difficulty framing it in a way they need to.
Definitely Not A Cop
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The IG and TikTok crowd are almost completely on Hamas side. Or at least, celebrating an uprising against Israel for putting the mistreated Palestinians in "open air prisons"
J. Walter Weatherman
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Teslag said:

I haven't even sensed a coherent talking point among media talking heads and democrat politicians. It's disjointed and they aren't sure how they want to approach it. This attack was so completely disgusting and one sided in terms of who to blame, they are having difficulty framing it in a way they need to.


Besides the usual bs from Omar, this one was going around too. Thankfully she was pretty much roundly ridiculed for it.


Teslag
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I remember the first time I flew over Mosul and was amazed at how an entire city could be completely laid to waste. There was nothing left. Just rubble as far as you could see. I just couldn't imagine the amount of ordnance it took to get that done.

There's no reason why Israel couldn't and shouldn't do the same to Gaza.
maverick2076
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aggiehawg said:

ArcticPenguin said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Yep. I agree 100%. Hence the declaration of war. They're playing for keeps now, not just to punish the immediate bad behavior by Hamas. This is fire and brimstone time for them...
I don't see any way out for the Israelis, that has to be a "final soluton" for lack of a better term.Everybody is in uncharted territory right now and essentially operating blind.


Did you really just quote Hitler and suggest his genocide philosophy he used by the people that were the target of the "final solution" use genocide as a weapon?" Okay I am exiting this Board for the night because - just what?
Lighten up a bit. Israel is in a revolving cycle with Hamas and Gaza. Past attemps to quell did not work for long,

They need something that sticks for many years.


They should try napalm. It sticks.
tremble
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Rossticus said:

mts6175 said:

ChemAg15 said:

Isosceles_Kramer said:

Hamas is commiting major war crimes, and recording it for online view. I don't see how they can gather the usual sympathy and play the victim card with this attack. There are atrocities being shown unlike their previous attacks. Very sad.


This is what is alarming to me. Hamas is acting like they aren't going to play the victim card which means they WANT Isreal to respond with overwhelming force. Whoever is pulling the strings, their goal seems to be total warfare.


Conspiracy theory answer - Iran is trying to draw us into a war and will attempt to hit us inside the USA too with some terrorist attack.

Hezbollah already has started attacking Israel in the northern district today. Gut tells me Israel is about to attempt to go Fallujah on Gaza, which will draw the other anti Israel Arab nations and terrorist groups. They want the west to engage.

This will get nasty.


BRICS. Russia is in a tight spot, Iran wants to eliminate Israel, and China wants Taiwan. The US has shown that we lack resolve and will self cannibalize and bail before the job is done (Afghanistan, Ukraine, etc.) for political benefit. I don't think it's a coincidence that this begins when it has. I expect China to get froggy here shortly.


Too many changes in China too rapidly IMO. Losing your foreign minister and multiple strategic military commanders in the PLARF not conducive to real world ops.
YouBet
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AG
Teslag said:

I remember the first time I flew over Mosul and was amazed at how an entire city could be completely laid to waste. There was nothing left. Just rubble as far as you could see. I just couldn't imagine the amount of ordnance it took to get that done.

There's no reason why Israel couldn't and shouldn't do the same to Gaza.


The way they are talking...they may get there.
Claverack
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Fenrir said:

Stlkofta said:

Not a Bot said:

The Afghanistan cards had been dealt long before then. We were funneling money to a fake army that existed only on paper. The Afghanistan papers were leaked in (iirc) 2011, but no one reported on it. The CIA and DOD knew that the Afghani Army was a walking pile of crap and couldn't do anything, but at the same time we're telling the public and Congress that everything was going great.
Yeah. That is why no Taliban offensive ever got that far off the ground while Trump was President.

SIGAR reports point to the effectiveness of the Afghan Air Force and the Afghan Special Forces. The main body ANA was not all that good. But it was good enough to fight in the way we trained it to fight.

President Biden took away logistical funding from the two most effective segments of the Afghan military structure we built and trained in our way of fighting. That created the conditions for an effective Taliban offensive, as President Biden and his team stripped the Afghan military of its ability to fight as we had spent decades training it to fight.

Now we see the consequences of Biden's surrender to the Taliban at work here in tandem with his ridiculous decisions to fund Hamas and pay tribute to Iran. The chickens for a weak and insidious President have come home to roost.

No amount of blame-shifting is going to save him from the fact he is as terrible a President as he is a human being.


I'll believe it when I see it. The media, fed bureaucracy, and Dem party circle the wagons better than anyone else. Look at all the **** he has managed to scurry out of like a rat and look at how many lefty posters even say a word about what's happening. They don't care that our federal government led by their party helped supply this attack. It doesn't involve Trump so they don't care.
That, Fenrir, is a damn valid observation. The fact we see posters on this board, who are most definitely not Biden groupies in any way, shape, or form, attempting to shift responsibility away from this President and his team underscores your point.

This is a special type of teflon this clown has as his armor. Biden is massively incompetent and corrupt, the closest thing we have had in this country to true evil in the White House since Woodrow Wilson. Yet there will always be allowances made for this tyrant and his actions, even from those who are not on his side.

Absolutely frustrating the amount of crap this load of Delaware manure gets away with.





fixer
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Teslag said:

I haven't even sensed a coherent talking point among media talking heads and democrat politicians. It's disjointed and they aren't sure how they want to approach it. This attack was so completely disgusting and one sided in terms of who to blame, they are having difficulty framing it in a way they need to.


Indeed.

I've been waiting for the " fiery but mostly peaceful attack" but it has taken a while yet.

Fenrir
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YouBet said:

Fenrir said:

Stlkofta said:

Not a Bot said:

The Afghanistan cards had been dealt long before then. We were funneling money to a fake army that existed only on paper. The Afghanistan papers were leaked in (iirc) 2011, but no one reported on it. The CIA and DOD knew that the Afghani Army was a walking pile of crap and couldn't do anything, but at the same time we're telling the public and Congress that everything was going great.
Yeah. That is why no Taliban offensive ever got that far off the ground while Trump was President.

SIGAR reports point to the effectiveness of the Afghan Air Force and the Afghan Special Forces. The main body ANA was not all that good. But it was good enough to fight in the way we trained it to fight.

President Biden took away logistical funding from the two most effective segments of the Afghan military structure we built and trained in our way of fighting. That created the conditions for an effective Taliban offensive, as President Biden and his team stripped the Afghan military of its ability to fight as we had spent decades training it to fight.

Now we see the consequences of Biden's surrender to the Taliban at work here in tandem with his ridiculous decisions to fund Hamas and pay tribute to Iran. The chickens for a weak and insidious President have come home to roost.

No amount of blame-shifting is going to save him from the fact he is as terrible a President as he is a human being.


I'll believe it when I see it. The media, fed bureaucracy, and Dem party circle the wagons better than anyone else. Look at all the **** he has managed to scurry out of like a rat and look at how many lefty posters even say a word about what's happening. They don't care that our federal government led by their party helped supply this attack. It doesn't involve Trump so they don't care.


Proof is this thread. Almost none of our regular leftists have commented even once. They support what has happened here because everything to them is a means to an end.
I've seen them throw more disgust behind a snide comment by Trump or Alex Stein making crude comments towards AOC than their party making it possible for a terrorist organization to slaughter innocent civilians. They are hypocritical, partisan cowards. The last few days is proof that there is no line leftists will not cross.
TX04Aggie
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AG
BBC news alert says 9 US citizens killed so far
Psycho Bunny
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Leftist get their marching orders from the George Soros of the world. Useless he says, let's support Israel, leftist loons will say nothing. And soros will never support Israel and nor will any leftist.
nortex97
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cslifer said:

Why do people keep posting stuff from random Twitter accounts that Israel sent 80% of their artillery shells to Ukraine? That is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in a while.
There's a lot of data points supporting that we've depleted the reserves of artillery shells not just in our own stocks, but those allocated for emergency use in Israel. 80 percent is surely not accurate, but they are well below normal levels and our ability to bring in more in a broad conflict on both the north and south is now low as well.

Quote:

The US military is quietly shipping hundreds of thousands of artillery shells to Ukraine from a massive stockpile in Israel, according to a Tuesday report.

The ammunition supply is located in Israel for the US military to use in regional conflicts. The US has also given Israel permission to use some of the supplies in emergency situations, The New York Times reported, citing American and Israeli officials.

The previous government approved of the move as Israel attempted to chart a course between maintaining ties with the US and Ukraine, and not antagonizing Russia.

Quote:

The US stockpile in Israel dates back to the Yom Kippur War in 1973. The US delivered weapons to beleaguered Israeli forces during the war, then set up storage facilities in Israel for use in a potential crisis.

US tanks and armored personnel carriers were stowed in the Negev desert in case American forces in the Middle East needed them. Later on, in the 2000s, munitions for the different branches of the US military were kept in Israel in locations that were only open to the US personnel, the report said.

The stockpile was officially known as War Reserve Stocks for Allies-Israel, or WRSA-I. It was supervised by the US European Command and is now overseen by the US Central Command, which has included Israel since 2021.

Israel used ammunition from the stockpile during the 2006 Lebanon war against the Hezbollah terror group, and during fighting against Gaza terrorists in 2014, according to a Congressional report from last year.
The usual suspects just can't handle any imputation we've depleted reserve war materials/ordinance (including those pre-positioned in Israel) that might be needed quickly elsewhere propping up Zelensky.
Cru
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S
YouBet said:

It was reported a couple of days ago that Israel apparently has a $2B line to the US for armament as insurance. There was speculation that we diverted most of these arms to Ukraine. That may be where the 80% is coming from and shouldn't be surprising if we did that. Because....Biden.

On the hostages, it sounds like they are all still in Gaza. A Hamas spokesman said they had spread them throughout Gaza as a deterrent to Israel coming into Gaza - WSJ.

On a personal note, we moved out of Dallas last week to a small town. Very happy about that.
Man, really happy for you. I know that was a long time coming. So glad you were able to execute it.
Rockdoc
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Psycho Bunny said:

Leftist get their marching orders from the George Soros of the world. Useless he says, let's support Israel, leftist loons will say nothing. And soros will never support Israel and nor will any leftist.

It's why our leftist posters have been mostly absent the last couple of days.
Bellards Boys
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Aim small, miss small Israel.

May The Lord God shield and protect you!

BB's
Definitely Not A Cop
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

The IG and TikTok crowd are almost completely on Hamas side. Or at least, celebrating an uprising against Israel for putting the mistreated Palestinians in "open air prisons"


Just to give some credit to Cuban, who usually finds the biggest foot to stick in his mouth.

https://instagr.am/p/CyJDj4zI6_O
MouthBQ98
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AG
I agree it is possible but we need to stop at claiming speculation as fact, or be clear it is speculation. Lots of random accounts on the social media fail to do that, and people run with it based on confirmation bias without considering how plausible or factual it is, and end up spreading unfounded rumors because they happen to support preconceptions.
YouBet
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Cru said:

YouBet said:

It was reported a couple of days ago that Israel apparently has a $2B line to the US for armament as insurance. There was speculation that we diverted most of these arms to Ukraine. That may be where the 80% is coming from and shouldn't be surprising if we did that. Because....Biden.

On the hostages, it sounds like they are all still in Gaza. A Hamas spokesman said they had spread them throughout Gaza as a deterrent to Israel coming into Gaza - WSJ.

On a personal note, we moved out of Dallas last week to a small town. Very happy about that.
Man, really happy for you. I know that was a long time coming. So glad you were able to execute it.


Thank you. Political and global trends keep going the wrong way to be in a big city!
MouthBQ98
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The Hamas/Palestinian support on the left is because they fall neatly into an oppressed/oppressor leftist political narrative and an identity politics intersectionalist narrative also. They are supposedly the oppressed minority group that are freedom fighters, instead of the perpetual antagonists and self destructive nihilistic extremists that they actually are. The left wants to exploit, promote, and leverage the oppression narrative for political activism in nations elsewhere, far removed from the actual conflict, to raise funds and recruit sympathetic activists locally. It's what they always do. It's not about reality, it as about narrative.
HowdyTAMU
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

The IG and TikTok crowd are almost completely on Hamas side. Or at least, celebrating an uprising against Israel for putting the mistreated Palestinians in "open air prisons"


Just to give some credit to Cuban, who usually finds the biggest foot to stick in his mouth.

https://instagr.am/p/CyJDj4zI6_O


Wait until Mark realizes how many Muslims play on his team.
K2-HMFIC
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tremble said:

Rossticus said:

mts6175 said:

ChemAg15 said:

Isosceles_Kramer said:

Hamas is commiting major war crimes, and recording it for online view. I don't see how they can gather the usual sympathy and play the victim card with this attack. There are atrocities being shown unlike their previous attacks. Very sad.


This is what is alarming to me. Hamas is acting like they aren't going to play the victim card which means they WANT Isreal to respond with overwhelming force. Whoever is pulling the strings, their goal seems to be total warfare.


Conspiracy theory answer - Iran is trying to draw us into a war and will attempt to hit us inside the USA too with some terrorist attack.

Hezbollah already has started attacking Israel in the northern district today. Gut tells me Israel is about to attempt to go Fallujah on Gaza, which will draw the other anti Israel Arab nations and terrorist groups. They want the west to engage.

This will get nasty.


BRICS. Russia is in a tight spot, Iran wants to eliminate Israel, and China wants Taiwan. The US has shown that we lack resolve and will self cannibalize and bail before the job is done (Afghanistan, Ukraine, etc.) for political benefit. I don't think it's a coincidence that this begins when it has. I expect China to get froggy here shortly.


Too many changes in China too rapidly IMO. Losing your foreign minister and multiple strategic military commanders in the PLARF not conducive to real world ops.
Tremble is paying attention...well done.
hunter2012
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MouthBQ98 said:

The Hamas/Palestinian support on the left is because they fall neatly into an oppressed/oppressor leftist political narrative and an identity politics intersectionalist narrative also. They are supposedly the oppressed minority group that are freedom fighters, instead of the perpetual antagonists and self destructive nihilistic extremists that they actually are. The left wants to exploit, promote, and leverage the oppression narrative for political activism in nations elsewhere, far removed from the actual conflict, to raise funds and recruit sympathetic activists locally. It's what they always do. It's not about reality, it as about narrative.
To be fair, the left are nihilists as well. Birds of a feather and all that...
Bubblez
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MouthBQ98 said:

The Hamas/Palestinian support on the left is because they fall neatly into an oppressed/oppressor leftist political narrative and an identity politics intersectionalist narrative also. They are supposedly the oppressed minority group that are freedom fighters, instead of the perpetual antagonists and self destructive nihilistic extremists that they actually are. The left wants to exploit, promote, and leverage the oppression narrative for political activism in nations elsewhere, far removed from the actual conflict, to raise funds and recruit sympathetic activists locally. It's what they always do. It's not about reality, it as about narrative.
You can be a repressed minority and also have a handful of animals claim to act upon your behalf in which you yourself have no control over.
nortex97
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AG
MouthBQ98 said:

I agree it is possible but we need to stop at claiming speculation as fact, or be clear it is speculation. Lots of random accounts on the social media fail to do that, and people run with it based on confirmation bias without considering how plausible or factual it is, and end up spreading unfounded rumors because they happen to support preconceptions.
Well before you jump to a conclusion check out our obligations and track record going into this summer where even Democrats wanted to put in language into the NDA for 2024 requiring reports and a replentishment of the stockpile for Israel due to it's depletion:

Quote:

The latest iteration of this year's National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) proposed by the House incorporates a crucial provision within which the Pentagon is mandated to submit a comprehensive report to Congress. Included in this report are the present inventory of PGMs within WRSA-I, the Defense Department's strategy for replenishing the stockpile after the transfer of munitions to Ukraine and an evaluation of whether the current stockpile aligns with the legal obligation to uphold Israel's Qualitative Military Edge (QME) as safeguarded by U.S. law.

Preserving Israel's QME stands as a crucial goal within the U.S.-Israel relationship. The overarching objective is to safeguard Israel's QME by ensuring it possesses the necessary resources to effectively tackle any future security threats. However, the transfer of the munitions stockpile to Ukraine has resulted in a diminished WRSA-I inventory for Israel.

JINSA has learned that the remaining weapons stored there are virtually useless for Israel's needs, and since 2018 has been the only organization to call for WRSA-I to be modernized and replenished with much-needed PGMs to help counter threats from Iran and/or Hezbollah.

American officials have stated repeatedly how WRSA-I helps ensure the Jewish state's ability to defend itself. Yet, according to JINSA, "the stockpile is falling dangerously short of meeting its stated purpose. Of particular concern is the stock of PGMs, especially Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) tail kits to convert unguided bombs. Israel will need abundant PGMs to compensate for limited defensive capabilities and prevail in an expected major war with Tehran and its proxies, all while minimizing collateral damage to civilians."
Quote:

Michael Makovsky, president and CEO of JINSA, has also noted that "the stockpile is falling dangerously short of meeting its stated purpose. Israel will need abundant PGMs to compensate for limited defensive capabilities and prevail in an expected major war with Tehran and its proxies, all while minimizing collateral damage to civilians."

He said that JINSA is "making progress on this critical issue, with strong support from both Democrats and Republicans."

"We applaud Congressman Panetta, with whom we've worked closely on this issue, for introducing this important provision into the NDAA, and we thank House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) for his support," said Makovsky.

"Much work remains to be done before this provision becomes law, but JINSA will continue to work with our partners in Congress so this and other JINSA recommendations are included in this year's NDAA."
It's not a big secret we are collectively low on 155mm ammo or JDAM's etc.
LMCane
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The summer of 2016 I stayed in a cute Airbnb in this middle building in the background east of Bloomfield soccer stadium.

The sheer number of humans that were shot is unimaginable in a very sparsely populated part of the small country.

Hamas had to have been doing Intel and Recon about the area and knew that rave festival friday night would be a massive target-

just like having all our battleships at Pearl Harbor lined up in their docks.

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