Israel/Hamas going at it

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LMCane
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LMCane
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LMCane
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For many months now those who pay attention knew that Hamas would most likely murder all the female hostages because they would not want their stories to get out to the rest of the world..

LMCane
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TheVarian
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AG
That is tough to listen to
Who?mikejones!
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13178913/Joe-Biden-remove-Benjamin-Netanyahu-Israel-Gaza-ceasefire-Rafah.html

Biden has drawn a "red line"...... for Israel. Still nothing for hamas. They can keep Americans prisoners, kill them. No red lines.


He is going to go to [political] war with Bibi. The radicals have won.
Who?mikejones!
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DCPD158
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Simple solution to this: Give Israel Hamas and give them the hostages. War over. No more unnecessary deaths?
Company I-1, Ord-Ords '85 -12thFan and Websider-
Gilligan
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LMCane said:


So disturbing!
aggiehawg
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Agthatbuilds said:


Gee, don't start no war, won't be no war.
JFABNRGR
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Gilligan said:

LMCane said:


So disturbing!


Wow.

Bet you won't find that on CNN or any msm.
ABATTBQ11
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LMCane said:




Would be a lot more efficient if they just bombed everyone in gaza
ArbAg
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Israel has legitimate claim to all the land is Israel including Gaza, the Palestinians are simply illegitimate occupiers who no Arab country wants within their own borders. Biden is an absolute fool trying to appease those who cannot be appeased.
The biggest IDF mistake was not blitzing Gaza and ending this conflict as quickly as humanly possible - the MSM will inevitably condemn Israel irrespective of the circumstances or outcome. Important to remember that in any armed conflict like this, there will be (tragically) the loss of innocent lives.
txags92
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ArbAg said:

Israel has legitimate claim to all the land is Israel including Gaza, the Palestinians are simply illegitimate occupiers who no Arab country wants within their own borders. Biden is an absolute fool trying to appease those who cannot be appeased.
The biggest IDF mistake was not blitzing Gaza and ending this conflict as quickly as humanly possible - the MSM will inevitably condemn Israel irrespective of the circumstances or outcome. Important to remember that in any armed conflict like this, there will be (tragically) the loss of innocent lives.
A big part of the Israeli restraint has been to appease their "quiet support" from the rest of the Arab world. Via the Abraham Accords, they have direct contact and relationships with many of the countries that would have been stridently attacking them and stirring up anger against them in the past. In this case, while there may be public sentiment in the street against Israel, most of the middle east governments have been pretty quiet and let Israel do what they need to do against Hamas, as long as they at least make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. I think their primary concern has been that Israel not try to "evict" the Palestinians from Gaza, which would push them into Egypt or Jordan. Had Israel just gone in and started attacking indiscriminately against Hamas without regard for civilians, the tone in the Arab world and the middle east would be very different. Right now, Israel has more enemies at Harvard and Columbia than they do in Arab world governments.
LMCane
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CQB in southern Khan Yunis just a few miles north of Rafiach

richardag
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txags92 said:

ArbAg said:

Israel has legitimate claim to all the land is Israel including Gaza, the Palestinians are simply illegitimate occupiers who no Arab country wants within their own borders. Biden is an absolute fool trying to appease those who cannot be appeased.
The biggest IDF mistake was not blitzing Gaza and ending this conflict as quickly as humanly possible - the MSM will inevitably condemn Israel irrespective of the circumstances or outcome. Important to remember that in any armed conflict like this, there will be (tragically) the loss of innocent lives.
A big part of the Israeli restraint has been to appease their "quiet support" from the rest of the Arab world. Via the Abraham Accords, they have direct contact and relationships with many of the countries that would have been stridently attacking them and stirring up anger against them in the past. In this case, while there may be public sentiment in the street against Israel, most of the middle east governments have been pretty quiet and let Israel do what they need to do against Hamas, as long as they at least make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. I think their primary concern has been that Israel not try to "evict" the Palestinians from Gaza, which would push them into Egypt or Jordan. Had Israel just gone in and started attacking indiscriminately against Hamas without regard for civilians, the tone in the Arab world and the middle east would be very different. Right now, Israel has more enemies at Harvard and Columbia than they do in Arab world governments.
Well said.

Also I believe they are trying as best they can to do the morally correct thing and the Israeli government does not hate Muslims, they even have Palestinian Muslims in he IDF.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
LMCane
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Really hoping the good guys just took out Marwan Issa,

an Ace in the deck of terror cards..
#3 in the Hamas hierarchy in Gaza.

now on to Deif and Haniyah and Sinwar!

LMCane
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richardag said:

txags92 said:

ArbAg said:

Israel has legitimate claim to all the land is Israel including Gaza, the Palestinians are simply illegitimate occupiers who no Arab country wants within their own borders. Biden is an absolute fool trying to appease those who cannot be appeased.
The biggest IDF mistake was not blitzing Gaza and ending this conflict as quickly as humanly possible - the MSM will inevitably condemn Israel irrespective of the circumstances or outcome. Important to remember that in any armed conflict like this, there will be (tragically) the loss of innocent lives.
A big part of the Israeli restraint has been to appease their "quiet support" from the rest of the Arab world. Via the Abraham Accords, they have direct contact and relationships with many of the countries that would have been stridently attacking them and stirring up anger against them in the past. In this case, while there may be public sentiment in the street against Israel, most of the middle east governments have been pretty quiet and let Israel do what they need to do against Hamas, as long as they at least make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. I think their primary concern has been that Israel not try to "evict" the Palestinians from Gaza, which would push them into Egypt or Jordan. Had Israel just gone in and started attacking indiscriminately against Hamas without regard for civilians, the tone in the Arab world and the middle east would be very different. Right now, Israel has more enemies at Harvard and Columbia than they do in Arab world governments.
Well said.

Also I believe they are trying as best they can to do the morally correct thing and the Israeli government does not hate Muslims, they even have Palestinian Muslims in he IDF.


I am sure the truth is in the middle, yes the IDF is made up of mostly moral human beings who do not want to kill innocent people

and also the IDF knows that just like the U.S. military, the ROE have to be followed to prevent massive diplomatic danger from propaganda attacks.
LMCane
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LMCane
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ArbAg
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txags92 said:

ArbAg said:

Israel has legitimate claim to all the land is Israel including Gaza, the Palestinians are simply illegitimate occupiers who no Arab country wants within their own borders. Biden is an absolute fool trying to appease those who cannot be appeased.
The biggest IDF mistake was not blitzing Gaza and ending this conflict as quickly as humanly possible - the MSM will inevitably condemn Israel irrespective of the circumstances or outcome. Important to remember that in any armed conflict like this, there will be (tragically) the loss of innocent lives.
A big part of the Israeli restraint has been to appease their "quiet support" from the rest of the Arab world. Via the Abraham Accords, they have direct contact and relationships with many of the countries that would have been stridently attacking them and stirring up anger against them in the past. In this case, while there may be public sentiment in the street against Israel, most of the middle east governments have been pretty quiet and let Israel do what they need to do against Hamas, as long as they at least make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. I think their primary concern has been that Israel not try to "evict" the Palestinians from Gaza, which would push them into Egypt or Jordan. Had Israel just gone in and started attacking indiscriminately against Hamas without regard for civilians, the tone in the Arab world and the middle east would be very different. Right now, Israel has more enemies at Harvard and Columbia than they do in Arab world governments.


I agree with the righteousness of your observations but (unfortunately) time is costly and memories of unforgivable Hamas despicable acts are regrettably short on the world stage. Time inevitably erodes justified support.
HunterAggie
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ArbAg said:

txags92 said:


A big part of the Israeli restraint has been to appease their "quiet support" from the rest of the Arab world. Via the Abraham Accords, they have direct contact and relationships with many of the countries that would have been stridently attacking them and stirring up anger against them in the past. In this case, while there may be public sentiment in the street against Israel, most of the middle east governments have been pretty quiet and let Israel do what they need to do against Hamas, as long as they at least make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. I think their primary concern has been that Israel not try to "evict" the Palestinians from Gaza, which would push them into Egypt or Jordan. Had Israel just gone in and started attacking indiscriminately against Hamas without regard for civilians, the tone in the Arab world and the middle east would be very different. Right now, Israel has more enemies at Harvard and Columbia than they do in Arab world governments.


I agree with the righteousness of your observations but (unfortunately) time is costly and memories of unforgivable Hamas despicable acts are regrettably short on the world stage. Time inevitably erodes justified support.

I agree with both this statement and the highlighted above.

Unfortunately, people are not as indignant for Israel today as they were after October 7th.

Hamas and those of their ilk are letting time erode support of Israel.
HunterAggie

The Elko Era has begun
LMCane
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HunterAggie said:

ArbAg said:

txags92 said:


A big part of the Israeli restraint has been to appease their "quiet support" from the rest of the Arab world. Via the Abraham Accords, they have direct contact and relationships with many of the countries that would have been stridently attacking them and stirring up anger against them in the past. In this case, while there may be public sentiment in the street against Israel, most of the middle east governments have been pretty quiet and let Israel do what they need to do against Hamas, as long as they at least make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. I think their primary concern has been that Israel not try to "evict" the Palestinians from Gaza, which would push them into Egypt or Jordan. Had Israel just gone in and started attacking indiscriminately against Hamas without regard for civilians, the tone in the Arab world and the middle east would be very different. Right now, Israel has more enemies at Harvard and Columbia than they do in Arab world governments.


I agree with the righteousness of your observations but (unfortunately) time is costly and memories of unforgivable Hamas despicable acts are regrettably short on the world stage. Time inevitably erodes justified support.

I agree with both this statement and the highlighted above.

Unfortunately, people are not as indignant for Israel today as they were after October 7th.

Hamas and those of their ilk are letting time erode support of Israel.

the first pro-Hamas parades in the USA began on October 9
LMCane
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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Is the US turning Gaza into a human feed lot?

On one hand the US is having the Navy build a ro-ro pier to feed people trapped in Gaza, while at the same time providing funding to Israel to kill those very same people.
LMCane
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that's a ridiculous statement and bereft of reality.

the US is not funding Israel to kill civilians.

the US is providing political support to end Hamas.
UTExan
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The Washington Post is concerned Ireland is pizzed because of Gaza. Ireland, where the murderous IRA made common cause with Fatah, Libyan intelligence, the German Red Army Factions, Red Brigades and other Euro/Mideast terror groups. Ireland, which was friendly with Nazis and Japanese during WW2.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
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Psycho Bunny
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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Is the US turning Gaza into a human feed lot?

On one hand the US is having the Navy build a ro-ro pier to feed people trapped in Gaza, while at the same time providing funding to Israel to kill those very same people.
What kind of crap statement is this. Israel is killing those that are part of Hamas. Stop watching cnn and msnbc its not good for the brain.
TRUMP 2024 BABY!!!!

Time for the adults to run the country.
BQ78
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AG
Well war is politics by other means, according to Clausewitz.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Psycho Bunny said:

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Is the US turning Gaza into a human feed lot?

On one hand the US is having the Navy build a ro-ro pier to feed people trapped in Gaza, while at the same time providing funding to Israel to kill those very same people.
What kind of crap statement is this. Israel is killing those that are part of Hamas. Stop watching cnn and msnbc its not good for the brain.
US taxpayer provides Israel with $14.5 billion to perpetuate war.

Israel goes ham by blockading Gaza and planning an imminent ground invasion of Rafa.

US gets nervous about optics and thinks Israel going too far.

US desperately tries to reign in Israel to no avail.

As a last ditch effort, the US decides to build a pier to funnel food aid to the people in Gaza under the logic that if people are gonna be killed by yet another US funded war, it's less bad optics if they are killed on a full stomach.

In the alternative, US attempts to gain leverage over Israel by threatening to bring 500,000 people from Gaza to the US as refugees. the ultimate in a veiled threat against the US jewish population.

Don't see how the above is too far off from the truth. Stings a little bit to see it put that way, but certainly not at the level of crap.
Ag In Ok
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AG
This has the makings of a worse outcome than HKIA. With our boats comes our logistics. Those same types of units that were hit in a remote outpost in Jordan will be moving truckloads if good around Gaza. After all, would we trust Hamas to deliver food? Mixed in with quartermasters could be special forces? Intel? Free roam once they break away from a pack? All in a shoot the gunman war zone? And how will Hamas use our soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines for cover? What do you do when a Hamas gunman or sympathizer (there are hundreds of thousands / over a million of the latter) accuses a service member of sayings "shalom" or supporting Israel, or their name sounds Jewish? What do you do if Hamas decides to frame Israel for an attack they perpetrate on us? What do we do with the Hamas Actors Corps?

I don't see us dropping off food for massive crowds without some logistical support. Boots on the ground in a combat zone will happen.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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I don't see how you don't have a full NCW group to provide force protection for this. You talking multiple small boats underway 24/7 to provide security, escort and intercept. That goes along with the maintenance and logistics necessary for sustained operations. You also talking support for EOD dive teams, some sort of command and control. The force protection for all that is an entire operation in and of itself. For every 3 man boat crew on the water there's also a half dozen+ people behind them to make it go.

So the idea that this is being sold to the public as a minor humanitarian aid operation is wild. Nobody questions it either. This will turn into a significant escalation by mid-summer leading up to the US presidential election, and I'd like to be wrong about all this.
Ag In Ok
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AG
Agreed. Odds are this turns into a NEO.
UTExan
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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Psycho Bunny said:

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Is the US turning Gaza into a human feed lot?

On one hand the US is having the Navy build a ro-ro pier to feed people trapped in Gaza, while at the same time providing funding to Israel to kill those very same people.
What kind of crap statement is this. Israel is killing those that are part of Hamas. Stop watching cnn and msnbc its not good for the brain.
US taxpayer provides Israel with $14.5 billion to perpetuate war.

Israel goes ham by blockading Gaza and planning an imminent ground invasion of Rafa.

US gets nervous about optics and thinks Israel going too far.

US desperately tries to reign in Israel to no avail.

As a last ditch effort, the US decides to build a pier to funnel food aid to the people in Gaza under the logic that if people are gonna be killed by yet another US funded war, it's less bad optics if they are killed on a full stomach.

In the alternative, US attempts to gain leverage over Israel by threatening to bring 500,000 people from Gaza to the US as refugees. the ultimate in a veiled threat against the US jewish population.

Don't see how the above is too far off from the truth. Stings a little bit to see it put that way, but certainly not at the level of crap.


Think of the IDF as an extension of our power. Iran fears them and the Arab states have incentives to play nice. We arm the IDF and they are generally very efficient at suppressing our enemies Hezbollah and Hamas. Plus, they get to defend their homeland, which they will do. They are not Afghans.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
PA24
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AG
Pro Israel
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