trumps properties will be liquidated and sold off at auction

19,327 Views | 235 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Rockdoc
aggiehawg
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Houstonag said:

I brought this subject up on an earlier thread and some on this board challenged the idea of property seizure and liquidation. I am glad to see in this thread some common sense in recognizing the obvious corruption in the legal system in the state of NY.

This system in my opinion is in violation of the US constitution.
There are competing legal analyses at play here. Can the state seize and sell assets in the abstract? Yes, they can. The most common type of disgorgement with which people are familiar involve Mafia, drug dealers and their planes and yachts and the occasional Ponzi Scheme guy such as Madoff and now Bankman Fried.

But there is also a proportionality aspect to such seizures and forfeitures. Does the penalty fit the crime? And here, there is no crime alleged, it is a civil penalty for an alleged violation of a civil statute.And therein lies the problem. Criminal statutes must be narrowly drawn to provide notice of what behavior is not allowed. Criminal statutes that are too vague or too broad get struck down because they fail to provide such notice. Due process.

Here we are in the realm of GAAP, Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. So what does that mean? 3 out of 5 accountants agree and the other two are wrong? Something else? And this judge made findings of fact based solely upon a motion for partial summary judgment, which again are designed to be only appropriate as a matter of law, not fact.

This case will have to be sorted out in the appellate courts in the next few years. But in the meantime, those very wealthy people still living and doing business in NY state are rethinking whether it is time to leave.
GeeBee
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TAMU1990 said:

Just the numbers they gave for Maro a Lago were bunk. 18 million for that? That is incorrect. Anyone with eyes can see that.


Just go look at Zillow. There's a small place across the road for $41m. $18 million might get you a Kato Kaelin type place.
Pookers
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aggiehawg said:

Houstonag said:

I brought this subject up on an earlier thread and some on this board challenged the idea of property seizure and liquidation. I am glad to see in this thread some common sense in recognizing the obvious corruption in the legal system in the state of NY.

This system in my opinion is in violation of the US constitution.
There are competing legal analyses at play here. Can the state seize and sell assets in the abstract? Yes, they can. The most common type of disgorgement with which people are familiar involve Mafia, drug dealers and their planes and yachts and the occasional Ponzi Scheme guy such as Madoff and now Bankman Fried.

But there is also a proportionality aspect to such seizures and forfeitures. Does the penalty fit the crime? And here, there is no crime alleged, it is a civil penalty for an alleged violation of a civil statute.And therein lies the problem. Criminal statutes must be narrowly drawn to provide notice of what behavior is not allowed. Criminal statutes that are too vague or too broad get struck down because they fail to provide such notice. Due process.

Here we are in the realm of GAAP, Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. So what does that mean? 3 out of 5 accountants agree and the other two are wrong? Something else? And this judge made findings of fact based solely upon a motion for partial summary judgment, which again are designed to be only appropriate as a matter of law, not fact.

This case will have to be sorted out in the appellate courts in the next few years. But in the meantime, those very wealthy people still living and doing business in NY state are rethinking whether it is time to leave.
All by design IMO. Blackrock and vanguard will swoop in and take ownership. They do / did the same thing with the BLM riots.

Cause Crime
Ruin property values
Buy everything up
You will own nothing and be happy.
DDub74
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Can someone please explain this case to me? My understanding is that in loan applications, he inflated the value of his properties which from my experience in the financial and real estate world is a common practice, so how in the world is he guilty of fraud? Didn't he payback these loans with interest and no penalties and everybody was happy including the banks? Based on this theory, you could almost arrest and take the real estate from half the developers in this country
jjtrcka22
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Pookers said:

GeorgiAg said:

DallasAg 94 said:

Makes me want Trump to become president and watch him dismantle so much of this crap.
Trump dismantled the GOP and has screwed with the country enough. The GOP is an absolute dysfunctional mess right now.

We need two functional parties. The left will get (the wrong stuff) passed into laws.
The GOP was a dumpster fire long before Trump showed up. Decades of backstabbing voters is what has caused the issues we are seeing today.


Nailed it. Trump isn't the cause. He's the result of the dysfunctional party.
aggiehawg
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DDub74 said:

Can someone please explain this case to me? My understanding is that in loan applications, he inflated the value of his properties which from my experience in the financial and real estate world is a common practice, so how in the world is he guilty of fraud? Didn't he payback these loans with interest and no penalties and everybody was happy including the banks? Based on this theory, you could almost arrest and take the real estate from half the developers in this country
No, you understand it pretty well. That's exactly what is happening.

But have to quibble with the use of the word "arrest." This is a civil proceeding, not criminal.But your point about other real estate developers in NY and their wondering when James might come after them.
Antoninus
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MouthBQ98 said:

A black robe doesn't make a tyrant any less of a tyrant.
Secretaries of State have had the authority to revoke corporate charters for malfeasance for as long as states have recognized the existence of corporations. It seems a bit odd for a trial court judge (rather than a SoS) to have that authority, but I don't pretend to be an expert on NY law.
LMCane
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samurai_science said:

DallasAg 94 said:

Makes me want Trump to become president and watch him dismantle so much of this crap.
He already failed at dismantling anything
He also failed at winning re-election

but I'm sure with so many elderly republican voters dying off in the last four years, and so many brand new teenagers voting for the first time that Trump will be much more popular now at the end of 2024.

especially after January 6, a second impeachment, being near 80 years old, 91 felony indictments and hanging out with Kanye and the USA's top Nazi.

and not having any money to campaign.

Antoninus
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Houstonag said:

I brought this subject up on an earlier thread and some on this board challenged the idea of property seizure and liquidation. I am glad to see in this thread some common sense in recognizing the obvious corruption in the legal system in the state of NY.
You claimed that the state was seizing his assets, and I explained what was actually happening ... cancelation of his corporate charters and liquidation of his assets. There is NO hint of civil asset forfeiture in this case.

Basically, you garbled the facts in that thread. I too am glad that this thread is more accurate.
dmart90
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damiond said:

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-properties-auctioned-off-fraud-trial-tristan-snell-1832011
the establishment is evil and will do anything and everything to stop what they see as an existential threat to their dominance and the personal sacrifice that trump has made for americas benefit can not be overexaggerated
god bless donald trump
Antoninus
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Ags77 said:

What about his golf courses ? Are they going to be sold, too ? There will be a lot of bidders if they are.
Does he own any golf courses in the state of New York? Bedminster is in New Jersey, as I recall.
Bubblez
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Criminal behavior should come with serious consequences. Trump is a criminal.
Antoninus
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aggiehawg said:

DDub74 said:

Can someone please explain this case to me? My understanding is that in loan applications, he inflated the value of his properties which from my experience in the financial and real estate world is a common practice, so how in the world is he guilty of fraud? Didn't he payback these loans with interest and no penalties and everybody was happy including the banks? Based on this theory, you could almost arrest and take the real estate from half the developers in this country
No, you understand it pretty well. That's exactly what is happening.
That very much depends upon the state at issue. Does every state have something similar to NY Executive Law 63(12)? Probably not, but I've not done a national survey.

In NY, a lot of developers would indeed be exposed to executive enforcement actions, if they are engaging in a pattern of lying to lenders on their financial statements.
Pookers
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Bubblez said:

Criminal behavior should come with serious consequences. Trump is a criminal.
Name his crimes.
agnerd
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Bunch of corporations need to realize they shouldn't be doing business in NY anymore.
aezmvp
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Now do Hillary and Joe/Jim/Hunter. Or any of the FBI, NSA and DHS officials who lied or illegally withheld information on FISA warrants. Or the dozens of administration officials that have perjured themselves before Congress. Or the BLM rioters that assaulted LEO and rioted and attempted arson.

There is a clear double standard. Why should anyone believe otherwise when it is clear that the rules only apply for certain people?

What a lazy, dishonest and patently absurd reduction of the situation.
Kansas Kid
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Ags77 said:

What about his golf courses ? Are they going to be sold, too ? There will be a lot of bidders if they are.

I doubt it. Golf courses are notorious money pits with a few limited exceptions.
Rockdoc
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Bubblez said:

Criminal behavior should come with serious consequences. Trump is a criminal.

What are his crimes. They should be easy for you to cite.
Old Army Metal
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Rockdoc said:

Bubblez said:

Criminal behavior should come with serious consequences. Trump is a criminal.

What are his crimes. They should be easy for you to cite.
Fraud and sexual assault spring immediately to mind as ones he has been found guilty of.
Kansas Kid
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aggiehawg said:

DDub74 said:

Can someone please explain this case to me? My understanding is that in loan applications, he inflated the value of his properties which from my experience in the financial and real estate world is a common practice, so how in the world is he guilty of fraud? Didn't he payback these loans with interest and no penalties and everybody was happy including the banks? Based on this theory, you could almost arrest and take the real estate from half the developers in this country
No, you understand it pretty well. That's exactly what is happening.

But have to quibble with the use of the word "arrest." This is a civil proceeding, not criminal.But your point about other real estate developers in NY and they're wondering when James might come after them.

This is the case against Trump that really baffles me. If you had banks coming and filing a complaint, that would be one thing but I haven't seen anything where they did that.

County assessed values are frequently way below market especially on commercial property. I don't think the law requires in any jurisdiction that an owner to appeal a valuation if the country proposes a valuation that is too low. Do I think Trump inflated the value for a variety or reasons (mostly vanity), yes but go talk to the banks and they will all tell you they do their own valuation. The only thing I have read that feels like fraud is if the actual square footage of his residence is 1/3 the size of what he reported but again, I would assume county records would show the actual size and would again be something banks would diligence.

I'm not a lawyer and I haven't followed this case closely but this case seems flimsy at best and one that could be brought against most people in the commercial real estate world.
Rockdoc
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Old Army Metal said:

Rockdoc said:

Bubblez said:

Criminal behavior should come with serious consequences. Trump is a criminal.

What are his crimes. They should be easy for you to cite.
Fraud and sexual assault spring immediately to mind as ones he has been found guilty of.

What are they? What has he been convicted of? Waiting.
Bucketrunner
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Nothing wrong with your side that a few good deaths wouldn't cure.

Feinstein is a good start
MouthBQ98
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The banks are pretty much legally required to do their own independent valuation after 2008-9
BigRobSA
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StandUpforAmerica said:

samurai_science said:

DallasAg 94 said:

Makes me want Trump to become president and watch him dismantle so much of this crap.
He already failed at dismantling anything
Hmmm... I wonder if he might be a little more motivated this time... or a little more knowledgeable about what it will take.



Motivated, or not, he'd be a lame duck...on day one...and since he's an ******* to boot, friendless and powerless.
BudFox7
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The government itself inflates the value of property and then taxes the inflated value.

Can I sue the govt for fraud?
RafterAg223
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GeorgiAg said:

DallasAg 94 said:

Makes me want Trump to become president and watch him dismantle so much of this crap.
Trump dismantled the GOP and has screwed with the country enough. The GOP is an absolute dysfunctional mess right now.

We need two functional parties. The left will get (the wrong stuff) passed into laws.
Passed in to law with help from people like you at the ballot box.
Antoninus
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MouthBQ98 said:

The banks are pretty much legally required to do their own independent valuation after 2008-9
Does a fraudulent misrepresentation cease to be a fraudulent misrepresentation, if you get caught at it?
RafterAg223
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Bubblez said:

Criminal behavior should come with serious consequences. Trump is a criminal.
No, he isn't. But every single one of your leftist heroes definitely are, professional troll.
RoadkillBBQ
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Pookers said:

Once they are done with Trump they will do this to all of us. This is how communism works. No outside threats to the establishment will be permitted.
Bingo!
jja79
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Bubblez said:

Criminal behavior should come with serious consequences. Trump is a criminal.
Let's assume you're right. I disagree but let's say your right. Do you think the law should be applied equally. One would have to be in denial not to see an actual criminal enterprise being run from the White House in plain sight and under cover of the state propaganda. Why is the property of that criminal not being seized?
ts5641
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The left hate him no doubt and will do anything to destroy him. But Trump is his own worst enemy. Let's not get carried away like he's our savior. In fact, I think he's the main reason we won't get the WH back in 2024.
ts5641
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DallasAg 94 said:

Makes me want Trump to become president and watch him dismantle so much of this crap.
Just like he did last time? Dude is a clown and a fraud.
jja79
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Antoninus said:

MouthBQ98 said:

The banks are pretty much legally required to do their own independent valuation after 2008-9
Does a fraudulent misrepresentation cease to be a fraudulent misrepresentation, if you get caught at it?
I look at real estate loan applications as part of my employment. It's typical for assets to be overvalued on application, hence the independent appraisal. Should they be going after mom and pop who overvalue their real estate even though, as in the case of Trump, it has no bearing on the credit decision?
aggie93
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Pookers said:

No Spin Ag said:

samurai_science said:

DallasAg 94 said:

Makes me want Trump to become president and watch him dismantle so much of this crap.
He already failed at dismantling anything


True, he did fail. But next time, with help only by a relative few (maga), and being a lame duck on day one, he'll do that and even more, again, this time.
Trump could start draining the swamp and half the GOP shills on TexAgs would be crying that he's destroying sacred institutions.
With who? Ronna McDaniel? Lindsey Graham? Nancy Mace? I have a new sig to remind you folks who you are supporting as the "Drainer of the Swamp".

What is happening to Trump is disgusting. It will likely all be overturned on appeal but it is still ridiculous. That said Trump isn't the guy to fix anything. He couldn't do it last time and he sure as hell can't do it now.

Rage all you want but that isn't going to solve anything.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Antoninus
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jja79 said:

Antoninus said:

MouthBQ98 said:

The banks are pretty much legally required to do their own independent valuation after 2008-9
Does a fraudulent misrepresentation cease to be a fraudulent misrepresentation, if you get caught at it?
I look at real estate loan applications as part of my employment. It's typical for assets to be overvalued on application, hence the independent appraisal. Should they be going after mom and pop who overvalue their real estate even though, as in the case of Trump, it has no bearing on the credit decision?
All I can do is refer you to New York Executive Law 63(12).
Quote:

Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper.

 
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