Four day work week

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Logos Stick
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8:11a, 9/26/23
"Once a workers' pipe dream, the four-day, 32-hour workweek is gaining ground as hundreds of employers try the schedules and businesses rethink the conventional ways of work.

...

Organizations that have dipped a toe into shortened workweeks say it has resulted in happier, healthier staff, less turnover and a wave of interest from job applicantsusually with little to no loss in productivity."


How Four-Day Workweeks Actually Work, From Companies Pulling It Off https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-a-4-day-workweek-actually-works-from-the-companies-pulling-it-off-1a5c0e2a




Those who hate WFH are really gonna hate this.

If an employee can do the same amount of work in 32 hours, then they were slacking, were they not?

Although it does talk about meeting bloat.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to Logos Stick • 8:12a, 9/26/23
And they'll work even less in a four day work week. Americans want to become Europeans. That's not a good thing.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Logos Stick • 8:13a, 9/26/23
AG
Logos Stick said:
"Once a workers' pipe dream, the four-day, 32-hour workweek is gaining ground as hundreds of employers try the schedules and businesses rethink the conventional ways of work.

...

Organizations that have dipped a toe into shortened workweeks say it has resulted in happier, healthier staff, less turnover and a wave of interest from job applicantsusually with little to no loss in productivity."


How Four-Day Workweeks Actually Work, From Companies Pulling It Off https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-a-4-day-workweek-actually-works-from-the-companies-pulling-it-off-1a5c0e2a




Those who hate WFH are really gonna hate this.

If an employee can do the same amount of work in 32 hours, then they were slacking, were they not?

Although it does talk about meeting bloat.
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BassCowboy33
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8:15a, 9/26/23
Gonna be honest, if you really think about it, most people aren't working 40 hours in a 40-hour work week anyway.

Makes sense if you can find a way to condense it down.
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Slicer97
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8:16a, 9/26/23
AG
I love my 4-day work week (4-10s, not 4-8s). Day off rotates M/W/F, so every 3 weeks, I end up with a 4-day weekend and don't need to use my PTO for appointments and personal business. Coming in at 0600 kinda sucks, but the other benefits more than make up for it.

But I agree, a 32 hour work week is a load of crap.
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Logos Stick
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 8:16a, 9/26/23
BassCowboy33 said:
Gonna be honest, if you really think about it, most people aren't working 40 hours in a 40-hour work week anyway.

Makes sense if you can find a way to condense it down.


I don't disagree, but like Ellis said... the new Friday will become Thursday. Even less work gets done.
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ComeAndTakeIt
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8:16a, 9/26/23
My Pappaw said ranchers have a seven day work week.
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MouthBQ98
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8:17a, 9/26/23
AG
This will lower productivity. It is an attempt to create more work opportunities when for many hourly jobs, we already have a huge excess of work and not enough qualified workers. Guess how the Corporatist Progressives want to increase the labor supply? Importing more dependent poors they can exploit.

We needs more production to soak up the money thry keep printing, not less production.

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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Logos Stick • 8:17a, 9/26/23
Logos Stick said:
BassCowboy33 said:
Gonna be honest, if you really think about it, most people aren't working 40 hours in a 40-hour work week anyway.

Makes sense if you can find a way to condense it down.


I don't disagree, but like Ellis said... the new Friday will become Thursday. Even less work gets done.
Does this mean we'll start getting Wednesday night football?
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Funky Winkerbean
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8:18a, 9/26/23
AG
Compensate based on each task instead of time aka contract labor.
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Ag87H2O
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 9:16a, 9/26/23
AG
BassCowboy33 said:
Gonna be honest, if you really think about it, most people aren't working 40 hours in a 40-hour work week anyway.

Makes sense if you can find a way to condense it down.
And the vast majority won't work 32 hours in a 32 hour work week either. It just slides the norm downward and we become less productive overall.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Logos Stick • 9:20a, 9/26/23
AG
It doesn't necessarily mean they were, "slacking." There are diminishing returns when it comes to work hours over the course of a day and week, so it's not shocking that people could get the same done in 32 hours as 40 hours if they're given another day off.

It should also come as no surprise since the 40 hour work week itself comes from Henry Ford cutting the 48 hour week to 40 hours for this exact reason. He realized that even with an extra 8 hours in the work week, there was only a marginal increase in productivity.
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BQ78
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9:21a, 9/26/23
AG
But our socialist president plans to walk the picket line for this demand.

How the hell is he supposed to be a mediator between labor and business doing BS like that?
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AggieMD95
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 9:22a, 9/26/23
AG
BassCowboy33 said:
Gonna be honest, if you really think about it, most people aren't working 40 hours in a 40-hour work week anyway.

Makes sense if you can find a way to condense it down.



Lol

Don't think that's how it will work. You'll just get like 24 hrs of work in the 32 hr week - 20% less. It's not like the workers will just dial it up knowing the weekend is longer
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to Ag87H2O • 9:22a, 9/26/23
AG
When is the last time that productivity dropped in the US?



I don't like the 32 hour week mainly because I think it will be a way for employers to get out of providing insurance to their employees, but I don't think productivity will be the main issue. Employers will just stop covering insurance and then hire more workers with a small sliver of the savings, then pocket the rest. The energy savings will be tremendous as well.
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Dan Scott
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9:23a, 9/26/23
AG
Productivity on Friday is probably 50% of any other day. Just get your work done
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gkaggie08
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9:23a, 9/26/23
AG
Schools are pushing this also. My local school district started an early release at 1:15 on Fridays. Superintendent says they will eventually go to 4 day school weeks in the next few years. Other districts in the area are already exploring that option.

Im lucky that my wife is a SAHM, but this is going to suck for the 2 income households
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FrioAg 00
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9:24a, 9/26/23
AG
Most people in office settings aren't super productive on Friday anyway - but I'd bet you get 2-3 good hours worth of work from them on average.

Of course, you are probably only getting 20 good hours of real work during Monday - Thursday, so it's not like they couldn't compress 23 hours into the first 4 days if motivated to do so. I'm not categorically opposed to it.

My belief is that 35-40 real hours of work in a week will put you ahead, promotable and respected, easily in the top 10% of the employees. That can be done in 4 days.

Unfortunately the folks leading the charge for WFH and 4 day work weeks are the same folks dragging the median down, maybe giving 15-20 hour of real work a week regardless of the setting they are in. They want less eyes on them so they can continue to slack, but not be as easily identified as slacking. They still want to b**** and moan during promotion times or raises when they are treated like slackers.

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Daddy
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9:25a, 9/26/23
AG
So my kid can work 45 hours and whip every kids 32 hour week?

I think it depends on the job a lot of the work today people can do from home you don't need to be in the office 40 hours with all you do is work from the cubicle however productivity is responsible and I think people get more work done when they're only at the job versus at home where they're looking at tick tock and watching Netflix and drinking their wine or beer after two or smoking their reefer
2024
The Orangeman Returns with Thunder
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to Logos Stick • 9:35a, 9/26/23
Quote:
If an employee can do the same amount of work in 32 hours,
as with WFH and just about everything, it depends on the industry/place of employment.

in my line of work, based on billing people, you can't bill people the same amount in 32 hours that you can in 40+ (ethically at least).
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 9:35a, 9/26/23
BassCowboy33 said:
Logos Stick said:
BassCowboy33 said:
Gonna be honest, if you really think about it, most people aren't working 40 hours in a 40-hour work week anyway.

Makes sense if you can find a way to condense it down.


I don't disagree, but like Ellis said... the new Friday will become Thursday. Even less work gets done.
Does this mean we'll start getting Wednesday night football?
Never heard of the MAC I see.
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fka ftc
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9:36a, 9/26/23
Lots of white collar privilege in supporting a 32-hour work week, 40-hour pay. Its an effective 20% cost increase on anything product or service for blue collar labor.

How will that be addressed...? Likely with the 8+ million asylum seekers with work permits who will not complain about 50-hour work for 30-hour pay.

If you think thats a good idea, you may be a modern-day Democrat plantation manager.
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AgGrad99
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9:38a, 9/26/23
AG
Im an employer. And I'd love a 4 day work week. But I think the best of both worlds, would be to work an extra hour each day, and give Friday off. It's only 4 hours less work for the week, but an extra day off for the employees.

Productivity can be solved. 'Get X done this week' is already common place, whether someone works 40 hours, 30 hours or 60 hours. Just get your work done.

My issue is that a lot of businesses aren't office jobs. For example, we manufacture. It's hard to lose a day of production, but harder to lose a day of shipping, etc. If customers need materials, that's an extra day we cant get the material to them. But I could see a schedule where a few employees have Monday off, and a few others have Friday off, so you can cover both ends of the week.

Long story short...I'd love it. But there'd be challenges.
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An L of an Ag
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In reply to Daddy • 9:38a, 9/26/23
AG
Daddy said:
So my kid can work 45 hours and whip every kids 32 hour week?

I think it depends on the job a lot of the work today people can do from home you don't need to be in the office 40 hours with all you do is work from the cubicle however productivity is responsible and I think people get more work done when they're only at the job versus at home where they're looking at tick tock and watching Netflix and drinking their wine or beer after two or smoking their reefer


The lack of punctuation here makes this only readable as a Sam Kinnison rant.
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fka ftc
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 9:45a, 9/26/23
AgGrad99 said:
Im an employer. And I'd love a 4 day work week. But I think the best of both worlds, would be to work an extra hour each day, and give Friday off. It's only 4 hours less work for the week, but an extra day off for the employees.

Productivity can be solved. 'Get X done this week' is already common place, whether someone works 40 hours, 30 hours or 60 hours. Just get your work done.

My issue is that a lot of businesses aren't office jobs. For example, we manufacture. It's hard to lose a day of production, but harder to lose a day of shipping, etc. If customers need materials, that's an extra day we cant get the material to them. But I could see a schedule where a few employees have Monday off, and a few others have Friday off, so you can cover both ends of the week.

Long story short...I'd love it. But there'd be challenges.
So not just a 20% cost increase for manufacturers but disruption / inefficiencies in the supply chain as well.

Its a non-starter for a capitalist economy. Company B who stays with 40-hour work week will be the winners and Company A will go the way of other bloated companies.

If its a forced requirement, then its no longer capitalism and moves to a different sort of economic model best practiced in China, Cuba, DPRK, etc.
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hunterntexas
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9:48a, 9/26/23
AG
We tried it. Didn't last. Construction doesn't stop just because different departments aren't working and that became a real pain in the ass.
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DamnGood86
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In reply to ComeAndTakeIt • 9:49a, 9/26/23
AG
ComeAndTakeIt said:
My Pappaw said ranchers have a seven day work week.

My father-in-law, who was a farmer, always questioned how "town dogs" could make a living only working 40 hours a week.

I never had a pipe dream to work less. I always dreamt of opportunity to do more and thereby have more. If you get all your tasks done in a short period of time, you need more tasks.
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one MEEN Ag
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9:50a, 9/26/23
AG
I think there has been a big ethos change around corporate jobs that only the companies, government, and big education have themselves to blame. If you were to look at businesses from the 1980s to today, the gains have really only gone to capital not labor. All productivity increases, headcount reduction, reduced insurance coverages, no more pensions, underinvesting in employees 401k. Practically all gains have gone to the house.

There is a significant undercurrent where people do not think they can move up in this world anymore. Merit based compensation and promotion being chipped away in favor of DEI has affected the technical class as well. Perpetual inflation taking money from your wallet as well.

Demanding things like keeping work from home and reduced work week is the professional labor class's attempt at extracting their pound of flesh. How many times have you seen a company do anything except offer pay raises? Seems to work both ways now.

The economy rewarded late boomers and GenXrs for having two income households against a market backdrop that only realized the pricing pressure of one household earner. Now that pricing pressure is fully born out in the market and you need a dual household income to just make due, not get ahead. The dual income houses still have to raise kids and keep a home in order. The labor market is responding to those demands.

Just as a test of how powerful dual incomes are and how much they distort the market, it would take me working practically 20 years into my career to double my income. Or I could just marry someone of my equivalent professional class.

Also as another test, if a company were to just advertise that they pay 30-40% above the market rate but demand that you work hard they would absolutely be full of applicants. This isn't a hard topic, corporations have done a great job managing their costs and long term costs growths. Labor is now managing their effort accordingly.,
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AgGrad99
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In reply to fka ftc • 9:52a, 9/26/23
AG

Quote:
So not just a 20% cost increase for manufacturers but disruption / inefficiencies in the supply chain as well.
I dont think there would necessarily be a 20% cost increase. Especially if you did the 9 hour day for four days. Additionally, less hours are offset with some other cost savings (ie. less employees qualifying for benefits, less utilities/facilities used, etc). It would work for some, not for others.

However there would absolutely be supply chain issues....until it was more standard across industries.

For a very simple example, shut your plant down on a Friday, and see how many shipments you miss that have to be redelivered, get hit with storage fees, etc. It causes massive issues logistically.

But if it's commonplace, and more companies adopt it, perhaps some of those things get smoothed out (same way everyone adopts the weekend now).

I know there would be challenges, and it should absolutely not be mandated...but selfishly I would enjoy the quality of life change.
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TommyBrady
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9:54a, 9/26/23
AG
32 hour work week but getting paid for 40…what could go wrong???
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fka ftc
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In reply to DamnGood86 • 9:54a, 9/26/23
DamnGood86 said:
ComeAndTakeIt said:
My Pappaw said ranchers have a seven day work week.

My father-in-law, who was a farmer, always questioned how "town dogs" could make a living only working 40 hours a week.

I never had a pipe dream to work less. I always dreamt of opportunity to do more and thereby have more. If you get all your tasks done in a short period of time, you need more tasks.
Most all successful people will not only tell you this but will exemplify it in their work ethic.

I was fortunate that some incredibly long work hours several years ago resulted in the ability for me to waste my time on TexAgs but more importantly have time, money and freedom to spend on and with my family.

32-hour work week may result in time with your family / friends, but it will not result in financial freedom to do what you want. But not everyone desires financial freedom and values freedom of time.

But it will ALWAYS be a trade-off.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to TommyBrady • 9:55a, 9/26/23
AG
TommyBrady said:
32 hour work week but getting paid for 40…what could go wrong???


TBF, you and I are both 2-4x as productive as an employee from the 50's. Yet we make drastically less when accounting for inflation.
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Dan Scott
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9:57a, 9/26/23
AG
As long as the boss gives us pizza once a month I'm happy.
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fka ftc
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 9:58a, 9/26/23
AgGrad99 said:

Quote:
So not just a 20% cost increase for manufacturers but disruption / inefficiencies in the supply chain as well.
I dont think there would necessarily be a 20% cost increase. Especially if you did the 9 hour day for four days. Additionally, less hours are offset with some other cost savings (ie. less employees qualifying for benefits, less utilities/facilities used, etc). It would work for some, not for others.

However there would absolutely be supply chain issues....until it was more standard across industries.

For a very simple example, shut your plant down on a Friday, and see how many shipments you miss that have to be redelivered, get hit with storage fees, etc. It causes massive issues logistically.

But if it's commonplace, and more companies adopt it, perhaps some of those things get smoothed out.

I know there would be challenges, and it should absolutely not be mandated...but selfishly I would enjoy the quality of life change.
Agree, my comment if not clear was meant for the 32-hour week, 40-hour pay. Even 9 hours over 4 days can cause inefficiencies outside of supply chains as extending the 8 hour workday has diminishing returns.

Good points on smoothing out supply chain issues but that handles major disruptions but overall the system becomes less efficient.

Completely understand on the quality of life benefits. Definitely a balance.
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fka ftc
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 9:59a, 9/26/23
Definitely Not A Cop said:
TommyBrady said:
32 hour work week but getting paid for 40…what could go wrong???


TBF, you and I are both 2-4x as productive as an employee from the 50's. Yet we make drastically less when accounting for inflation.
You are NOT 2x / 4x more productive than an employee from the 1950s.
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