Grayscale got approved today.

Number go up.

https://fortune.com/crypto/2023/08/29/court-sides-with-grayscale-in-closely-watched-bitcoin-etf-case/amp/

Quote:

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The U.S. Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit issued its opinion in Grayscale v. SEC on Tuesday, ruling that the agency was unreasonable to deny the crypto giant permission to launch a Bitcoin ETF.

The ruling, which came after the SEC rejected crypto giant Grayscale's latest bid to launch a Bitcoin ETF last October, opens the door to a potentially huge amount of new capital flowing into crypto markets.

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This is actually a good thing for Bitcoin.

wouldnt it allow people to trade "paper" bitcoins? seems like it works against the under lying value of bitcoin?

Honestly, it's relatively irrelevant. Just shows more adoption.

Allows more people to begin the process of accepting change and moving towards better understanding.

All roads lead to Bitcoin.

maybe, maybe not. Maybe its a good thing some transactions would move off chain. Maybe its a bad thing long term. Idk.

Adverse Event said:

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Honestly, it's relatively irrelevant. Just shows more adoption.

Allows more people to begin the process of accepting change and moving towards better understanding.

All roads lead to Bitcoin.

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Going to have to disagree with you on this one.......Derivatives of the real thing are extremely bad for free markets.

Sure the price will rise and more people "will gain exposure to Bitcoin" but eventually you have a market made up of small group of HFT computer algos just trading back and forth to keep the price range bound as they scalp profits.

Just look to the silver market for an example. A years worth of physical mining gets traded in a few minutes and no one says a thing.....totally normal in a market.


We need markets to determine price, not a handful of traders manipulating it.

Zergling Rush said:

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Adverse Event said:

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Honestly, it's relatively irrelevant. Just shows more adoption.

Allows more people to begin the process of accepting change and moving towards better understanding.

All roads lead to Bitcoin.

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Going to have to disagree with you on this one.......Derivatives of the real thing are extremely bad for free markets.

Sure the price will rise and more people "will gain exposure to Bitcoin" but eventually you have a market made up of small group of HFT computer algos just trading back and forth to keep the price range bound as they scalp profits.

Just look to the silver market for an example. A years worth of physical mining gets traded in a few minutes and no one says a thing.....totally normal in a market.


We need markets to determine price, not a handful of traders manipulating it.

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And if it's distrustful, it will not be used. Bitcoin forces good behavior because flight is easier than ever and there's no need for custodial action.

Bitcoin is anti-fragile, fighting against only fragile institutions and financial implements. I'm not concerned at all.

Someone gifted me a Doge coin the other day. AE... should I be worried about the tax consequences?

Spot markets and commodity ETFs exist to allow financial giants to control the underlying asset. Sometimes they control it up, sometimes down, but make no mistake - Wall St. doesn't do anything to benefit the little guy. Ever.

1 Bitcoin is one "share" ( you have the digital code representing you have real value in your own possession)

1 Bitcoin ETF share is a fugzai Bitcoin (you have a credit to your account held by a large institution or bank representing you "have" exposure to Bitcoin.....you'll never have the keys to pull it off and put it in a hard wallet).




Bitcoin shouldn't need ETFs for mass adoption. It should be able to stand on its own.

Zergling Rush said:

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1 Bitcoin is one "share" ( you have the digital code representing you have real value in your own possession)

1 Bitcoin ETF share is a fugzai Bitcoin (you have a credit to your account held by a large institution or bank representing you "have" exposure to Bitcoin.....you'll never have the keys to pull it off and put it in a hard wallet).




Bitcoin shouldn't need ETFs for mass adoption. It should be able to stand on its own.

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Correct. Bitcoin doesn't need anything.

The happenstances outside of Bitcoin only increase bitcoins value proposition. It's irrelevant in the grand scheme, short term though all news is good news, triply so for Bitcoin.

The only thing about this that's exciting is that the SEC continues to prove its incompetence, alerting the masses that institutions that are supposed to be highly trusted for protection are actually exceptionally untrustworthy and captured by global corporatism.

This is just another accelerant towards anarchocapitalism or cryptoanarchism.

Sure? I find Doge irrelevant, personally.

jagvocate said:

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Spot markets and commodity ETFs exist to allow financial giants to control the underlying asset. Sometimes they control it up, sometimes down, but make no mistake - Wall St. doesn't do anything to benefit the little guy. Ever.

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This.

Also dollarizes it...

Reversed,

ETF bitcoinizes the dollar, since the dollar is backed by whatever it's backed by, now it's also backed by Bitcoin.

Op reminds me of a door to door salesman

Anyone knocking on my door to sell me something most probably isn't selling something I need

I own a tiny bit of BTC and a decent amount of XRP. XRP seems to have a practical use case.

It Aint Easy Being Brown said:

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Op reminds me of a door to door salesman

Anyone knocking on my door to sell me something most probably isn't selling something I need

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I offer you nothing except a path of knowledge seeking. People get Bitcoin when they deserve it.

In fact I only offer you agony, hardships and frustrations because when you recognize bitcoins value, you also recognize the issues you've been blatantly ignoring bright as day. Things like the unshouldered responsibilities you've unburdened yourself with to "institutions with your best interest at heart."

And honestly, nobody really fuggin cares if you figure it out yourself or not, you individually are not important.

Amazon.com: Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud: 9781419766398: McKenzie, Ben, Silverman, Jacob: Books

Book that just came out earlier this summer. Good read.

Adverse Event said:

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It Aint Easy Being Brown said:

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Op reminds me of a door to door salesman

Anyone knocking on my door to sell me something most probably isn't selling something I need

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I offer you nothing except a path of knowledge seeking. People get Bitcoin when they deserve it.

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Oh Ye of little faith in Bitcoin, Ye deserve poverty. So sayeth the Lord.

Bitcoin is Monopoly money.
Not backed by anything.
It produces nothing.
It's not required for any process.

Unlike other commodities, if every Bitcoin on the planet vanished overnight, it would have no consequences.

It's a solution looking for a problem.

To me it's like you set up a shell company with no physical assets, issue "x" number of shares of stock and put them out in the market for sale. People buy with cash at the current market price and thus have a fractional interest in the bank account of the shell company. That is until the management/owner cashes it into hard currency and gives it to various and assorted democrat politicians

Bitcoin people help me out here. If I am wrong here then explain how it is different!

Not your keys not your coin.

How can you short this ETF?

birdman said:

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How can you short this ETF?

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Like any other etf, once it's been approved. There will also be inverse bitcoin etf's.

Just to be clear, the ruling yesterday didn't "aprove" a bitcoin etf. But it made it more difficult for the SEC to continue to deny it.

BITI and others have been around for awhile…

Pumpkinhead said:

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Amazon.com: Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud: 9781419766398: McKenzie, Ben, Silverman, Jacob: Books

Book that just came out earlier this summer. Good read.

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If you like "The OC" you'll love this book.

Artimus Gordon said:

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To me it's like you set up a shell company with no physical assets, issue "x" number of shares of stock and put them out in the market for sale. People buy with cash at the current market price and thus have a fractional interest in the bank account of the shell company. That is until the management/owner cashes it into hard currency and gives it to various and assorted democrat politicians

Bitcoin people help me out here. If I am wrong here then explain how it is different!

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Well, tell me how you came to this conclusion

birdman said:

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How can you short this ETF?

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Please don't do this. I don't want anyone here to go bankrupt.

1. Resemblance to Pyramid schemes
2. Nothing backing the "coin?" itself.
3. Easily stolen. (Proven)
4. No insurance on accounts.

Buy Puts if you must. But don't short it. You need to know your max loss on this one.

It Aint Easy Being Brown said:

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Op reminds me of a door to door salesman

Anyone knocking on my door to sell me something most probably isn't selling something I need

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Don't get lost in the goofy delivery of one poster. He's not wrong in the analysis ,his delivery is just a little odd (which is to be expected of innovators/early adopters) Stay focused on the big picture.

Bitcoin/Crypto ETFs are going to spread like wildfire in financial firms throughout Wall Street now that this is decided. Which means behind the scenes firms will be buying ACTUAL Bitcoin and other cryptos to store in their hard wallets. Then they will package those into the ETFs to sell to their millions of clients because buying something people don't really understand from a "trusted financial firm/advisor" is more palatable to most Americans than learning and doing it themselves.

Beyond that, financial firms are dying to get in on the next bubble.

The reality is cryptos are the future.

SockStilkings said:

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Someone gifted me a Doge coin the other day. AE... should I be worried about the tax consequences?

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No. You just need to show it on your taxes once/if you sell it or dispose of it.

I checked today and it's still worth the $0.065 it was when I got it.

May hold onto it as if it goes up I want LT capital gain treatment.

SockStilkings said:

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I checked today and it's still worth the $0.065 it was when I got it.

May hold onto it as if it goes up I want LT capital gain treatment.

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To the moon!