doubledog said:

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Many addicts cannot quit on their own accord and as such will spiral into crime and death.

We used to have good old drunk tanks where addicts could be "jailed" until they sober up, at least that was a start.

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Oregon needs a divorce. As does WA state. The larger, coastal cities and in no way a representation of the rest of the state.

BlueSmoke said:

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Oregon needs a divorce. As does WA state. The larger, coastal cities and in no way a representation of the rest of the state.

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Ive been saying for a while now - you could reduce most of our modern political tension by letting counties succeed to adjoining states. Sure, the maps would be messy for a while, but you'd largely stabilize with the urbanites holding major city states connected by interstate corridors and the rural folk holding the land.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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BlueSmoke said:

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Oregon needs a divorce. As does WA state. The larger, coastal cities and in no way a representation of the rest of the state.

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Ive been saying for a while now - you could reduce most of our modern political tension by letting counties succeed to adjoining states. Sure, the maps would be messy for a while, but you'd largely stabilize with the urbanites holding major city states connected by interstate corridors and the rural folk holding the land.

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You could break up CA into at least three states. OR and WA could be split in two. Upstate and rural NY is nothing like NY city. Dim strongholds that would send then in an atomic detonation tantrum.

Has there ever been a more apt analogy than this?:

Quote:

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"We're building the plane as we fly it," Haven Wheelock, a program supervisor at a homeless-services provider in Portland who helped put Measure 110 on the ballot, told me.

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We are attempting the impossible so it's automatically doomed and everyone is going to die....but if we had more time!

Why? So you can kill even more people?

Martin Cash said:

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aTmAg said:

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True legalization would bring the price down and would likely increase usage by a bit. But more people would be able to afford it while holding actual jobs rather than resort to crime.

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It's my understanding that this has not be the case in Colorado with pot. Once the government got involved with regulations and taxation, the price of legal pot became higher than illegal, and the black market is flourishing.

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That's "true legalization". That's "legalization" with a crap ton of government intrusion.

BlueSmoke said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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BlueSmoke said:

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Oregon needs a divorce. As does WA state. The larger, coastal cities and in no way a representation of the rest of the state.

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Ive been saying for a while now - you could reduce most of our modern political tension by letting counties succeed to adjoining states. Sure, the maps would be messy for a while, but you'd largely stabilize with the urbanites holding major city states connected by interstate corridors and the rural folk holding the land.

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You could break up CA into at least three states. OR and WA could be split in two. Upstate and rural NY is nothing like NY city. Dim strongholds that would send then in an atomic detonation tantrum.

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It would be spectacular. I'm thinking bigger than what you describe, though. Illinois, California, Oregon, Virginia, Washington, Minnesota, Georgia, Michigan, and New York would all loose 80%+ of their territory. The shape of Texas might even change (El Paso jumping to New Mexico and Houston possibly making a play to rule Louisiana). Maine might take scalps from NH & VT and augment part of NY. Michigan's UP would go to Wisconsin. Indiana would stretch from the Mississippi to Lake Huron. Idaho might make it to the 3rd largest state.

The map would be nearly unrecognizable - but when the dust settled we could all live under governance which better suits us.

Ag with kids said:

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DDub74 said:

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A failure. Shocker I know.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-happened-when-oregon-decriminalized-hard-drugs/ar-AA1e4HA0

Overdoses up, crime up, accidental kid deaths up, treatment centers not up,

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Some of my favorite things from that article...

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Many advocates say the new policy simply needs more time to prove itself, even if they also acknowledge that parts of the ballot measure had flaws; advocates worked closely with lawmakers on the oversight bill that passed last month. "We're building the plane as we fly it," Haven Wheelock, a program supervisor at a homeless-services provider in Portland who helped put Measure 110 on the ballot, told me. "We tried the War on Drugs for 50 years, and it didn't work … It hurts my heart every time someone says we need to repeal this before we even give it a chance."

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Typical "we just need more time" appeal when the results are obviously not going how they'd hoped.

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Backers of Measure 110 said the law was modeled on drug policies in Portugal, where personal drug possession was decriminalized two decades ago. But Oregon's enforcement-and-treatment-referral system differs from Portugal's. Users caught with drugs in Portugal are referred to a civil commission that evaluates their drug use and recommends treatment if needed, with civil sanctions for noncompliance. Portugal's state-run health system also funds a nationwide network of treatment services, many of which focus on sobriety. Sutton said drafters of Measure 110 wanted to avoid anything that might resemble a criminal tribunal or coercing drug users into treatment. "People respond best when they're ready to access those services in a voluntary way," he said.

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So, we're doing what they're doing except we aren't.

Quote:

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Portland's Democratic mayor, Ted Wheeler, went so far as to attempt an end run around Measure 110 in his city. Last month, Wheeler unveiled a proposal to criminalize public drug consumption in Portland, similar to existing bans on open-air drinking, saying in a statement that Measure 110 "is not working as it was intended to." He added, "Portland's substance-abuse problems have exploded to deadly and disastrous proportions." Wheeler withdrew the proposal days later after learning that an older state law prohibits local jurisdictions from banning public drug use.

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BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!

You just KNOW this older law was passed in order to stop the NON-liberal towns in Oregon from banning them...

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It was designed for failure, whether intentionally or not. Oregon has a similar legalized psychedelics policy but has tried to prevent access unless paying exorbitant amounts.... it ridiculous.

aTmAg said:

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This is not a defense of Oregon. They are stupid in every way. But...

Refusing to convict drug users is not the same as legalization. That's the worst of both worlds. Since production and distribution is still illegal, then you still have the criminal element for that. And since the drugs are still technically illegal, you still have the "rebelliousness" aspect in effect. This policy is practically begging for the problem to get worse.

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They also had no mechanism to collect taxes which could have been used to fund treatment centers.