The Suwalki Gap and…conflagration/WW3

8,142 Views | 97 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Ag with kids
nortex97
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7:19p, 7/16/23
AG
Well, let's see, we are deploying a 'few' SF folks to the Baltic countries the past few years, an infantry battalion/Stryker battalion here and there, and stuff is happening. Not like more permanent stuff around Vilnius means anything. Why does this stretch of land none of us have ever worried about matter? This.

It matters, a lot.

Oh, and the WEF cares about it.

No biggie, right?



I know there's a crowd that wants to just go to war with Russia because Putin is a jerk but wow, this is insane amidst the IRR call up for Operation Atlantic Resolve and our 'unwavering commitment to NATO's eastern flank' under CINC/POTUS (*)Joe Biden.

25th Amendment. Any day now.
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An L of an Ag
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7:22p, 7/16/23
AG
Suwalki is the new Fulda??
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Rebel Yell
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7:31p, 7/16/23
AG
America first!
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Pizza
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7:33p, 7/16/23
Wars, rumors of wars & whatnot.
Anyone who chooses to ride a bicycle in the street is a threat to themselves, and others. If a vehicle strikes you accidentally, YOU are at fault; and the laws of physics supercede all else when you're in the path of a 2 ton killing machine. Know your place, stay off the road.
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Eliminatus
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7:35p, 7/16/23
AG
I'm just here for the drama and panic
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MouthBQ98
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7:47p, 7/16/23
AG
There is no way in hell Russia could attempt anything with its conventional forces remaining that actually would draw NATO in. They're struggling mightily with Ukraine. NATO would wreck Russia in short order, which is clear now to even the most optimistic Russian/Russian ally, and nobody on either side of it really wants to contemplate the consequences of escalation beyond conventional warfare. Nobody wins and everyone from top to bottom is much more miserable if not dead.

If there's going to be a problem soon it will be China deciding that it's demographic issues and economic challenges have no solution but war.
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Joes
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In reply to Pizza • 7:52p, 7/16/23
Pluralizes Everythings said:
Wars, rumors of wars & whatnot.
There's unlikely to have been a single day in recorded human history when there weren't wars and/or rumors of wars in progress somewhere.
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nortex97
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In reply to MouthBQ98 • 7:55p, 7/16/23
AG
Ok. Accepting arguendo all of that, why does operation Atlantic Resolve warrant an IRR call up/authorization?

Further, why would anyone (per your line of thought) trust that US forces are being deployed primarily in American national security interests as determined by an American executive (Biden) today?
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jabberwalkie09
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:58p, 7/16/23
AG
nortex97 said:
Ok. Accepting arguendo all of that, why does operation Atlantic Resolve warrant an IRR call up/authorization?

Further, why would anyone (per your line of thought) trust that US forces are being deployed primarily in American national security interests as determined by an American executive (Biden) today?
Simple observation/answer from the outside is retention and recruiting issues.
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BonfireNerd04
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8:00p, 7/16/23
WW2: Started because Germany saw Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave.

WW3: Might start because Russia sees Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave (which they took from Germany at the end of WW2).
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GAC06
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8:00p, 7/16/23
AG
I thought WWIII already started when we admitted Ukraine to NATO a few days ago.
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Pizza
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In reply to Joes • 8:06p, 7/16/23
Joes said:
Pluralizes Everythings said:
Wars, rumors of wars & whatnot.
There's unlikely to have been a single day in recorded human history when there weren't wars and/or rumors of wars in progress somewhere.


Keep looking up!
Anyone who chooses to ride a bicycle in the street is a threat to themselves, and others. If a vehicle strikes you accidentally, YOU are at fault; and the laws of physics supercede all else when you're in the path of a 2 ton killing machine. Know your place, stay off the road.
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nortex97
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In reply to jabberwalkie09 • 8:17p, 7/16/23
AG
jabberwalkie09 said:
nortex97 said:
Ok. Accepting arguendo all of that, why does operation Atlantic Resolve warrant an IRR call up/authorization?

Further, why would anyone (per your line of thought) trust that US forces are being deployed primarily in American national security interests as determined by an American executive (Biden) today?
Simple observation/answer from the outside is retention and recruiting issues.


The secretary of the army disclaiming multi generation families in service last week belies that assertion.
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jabberwalkie09
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:32p, 7/16/23
AG
nortex97 said:
jabberwalkie09 said:
nortex97 said:
Ok. Accepting arguendo all of that, why does operation Atlantic Resolve warrant an IRR call up/authorization?

Further, why would anyone (per your line of thought) trust that US forces are being deployed primarily in American national security interests as determined by an American executive (Biden) today?
Simple observation/answer from the outside is retention and recruiting issues.


The secretary of the army disclaiming multi generation families in service last week belies that assertion.
That cetainly doesn't help retention and COVID shot recruitment or get chaptered out didn't help either.

From March:


Quote:
How bad is the recruiting crisis? During the last fiscal year, the Army missed its recruiting goal by 15,000 active-duty soldiers, or 25 percent of its target. This shortfall forced the Army to cut its planned active-duty end strength from 476,000 to 466,000. And the current fiscal year is likely to be even worse. Army officials project that active end strength could shrink by as much as 20,000 soldiers by September, down to 445,000. That means that the nation's primary land force could plummet by as much as 7 percent in only two years at a time when its missions are increasing in Europe and even in the Pacific, where the Army provides many of the critical wartime theater enablers without which the other services cannot function.


https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/
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ABATTBQ11
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10:08p, 7/16/23
AG
Oh look, more fear mongering trying to disguise itself as pacifism
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Fins Up!
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6:27a, 7/17/23
AG
WW3 started when we allowed the Democrats to collude with China and release a lab grown virus into the world, so they could steal the 2020 election.
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LMCane
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In reply to BonfireNerd04 • 6:33a, 7/17/23
BonfireNerd04 said:
WW2: Started because Germany saw Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave.

WW3: Might start because Russia sees Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave (which they took from Germany at the end of WW2).
really?

you are trying to claim to educated adults on here-

that World War II started just because Hitler and the Nazis were annoyed over East Prussia?!?!

try again.
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nortex97
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In reply to LMCane • 6:37a, 7/17/23
AG
Well it didn't help that we had a bigoted 'progressive' Democrat in office as POTUS at the end of WW1, when Europe was exhausted, and as well when WW2 started, trying to play it neutral/look the other way with the nazi's and their fans running big industrial American companies (like Ford), looking to profit off the conflict.
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rab79
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In reply to LMCane • 12:57p, 7/17/23
AG
LMCane said:
BonfireNerd04 said:
WW2: Started because Germany saw Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave.

WW3: Might start because Russia sees Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave (which they took from Germany at the end of WW2).
really?

you are trying to claim to educated adults on here-

that World War II started just because Hitler and the Nazis were annoyed over East Prussia?!?!

try again.
"Lebensraum"
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rab79
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In reply to jabberwalkie09 • 1:23p, 7/17/23
AG
jabberwalkie09 said:
nortex97 said:
jabberwalkie09 said:
nortex97 said:
Ok. Accepting arguendo all of that, why does operation Atlantic Resolve warrant an IRR call up/authorization?

Further, why would anyone (per your line of thought) trust that US forces are being deployed primarily in American national security interests as determined by an American executive (Biden) today?
Simple observation/answer from the outside is retention and recruiting issues.


The secretary of the army disclaiming multi generation families in service last week belies that assertion.
That cetainly doesn't help retention and COVID shot recruitment or get chaptered out didn't help either.

From March:


Quote:
How bad is the recruiting crisis? During the last fiscal year, the Army missed its recruiting goal by 15,000 active-duty soldiers, or 25 percent of its target. This shortfall forced the Army to cut its planned active-duty end strength from 476,000 to 466,000. And the current fiscal year is likely to be even worse. Army officials project that active end strength could shrink by as much as 20,000 soldiers by September, down to 445,000. That means that the nation's primary land force could plummet by as much as 7 percent in only two years at a time when its missions are increasing in Europe and even in the Pacific, where the Army provides many of the critical wartime theater enablers without which the other services cannot function.


https://warontherocks.com/2023/03/addressing-the-u-s-military-recruiting-crisis/
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:02p, 7/17/23
AG
nortex97 said:
Well it didn't help that we had a bigoted 'progressive' Democrat in office as POTUS at the end of WW1, when Europe was exhausted, and as well when WW2 started, trying to play it neutral/look the other way with the nazi's and their fans running big industrial American companies (like Ford), looking to profit off the conflict.


The US "played it neutral" because there were plenty of pacifists and Nazi sympathizers pushing the exact same crap you do today: "It's not our conflict, and we shouldn't get involved one way or the other. Just let Hitler and Germany have what they want because peace and servitude is better than bloodshed and freedom." We can (almost) all see in hindsight that they were a bunch of suckers doing exactly what Hitler and the Nazis wanted, which was keeping US public opinion divided and the US or of the war effort at much as possible for as long as possible. Crazy how Russia doesn't try to do that today with their sympathizers...
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Teslag
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 2:09p, 7/17/23
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
Oh look, more fear mongering trying to disguise itself as pacifism

Don't worry. We will be told soon that Russia deserves this land too since NATO expanded to the baltics.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to rab79 • 2:11p, 7/17/23
AG
rab79 said:
LMCane said:
BonfireNerd04 said:
WW2: Started because Germany saw Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave.

WW3: Might start because Russia sees Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave (which they took from Germany at the end of WW2).
really?

you are trying to claim to educated adults on here-

that World War II started just because Hitler and the Nazis were annoyed over East Prussia?!?!

try again.
"Lebensraum"


Except the idea of Lebensraum involved half of Europe. Germany did not rearm itself in preparation for a war with all of Europe and the Soviet Union to get access to East Prussia, or even just Poland.
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nortex97
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 2:26p, 7/17/23
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
Well it didn't help that we had a bigoted 'progressive' Democrat in office as POTUS at the end of WW1, when Europe was exhausted, and as well when WW2 started, trying to play it neutral/look the other way with the nazi's and their fans running big industrial American companies (like Ford), looking to profit off the conflict.


The US "played it neutral" because there were plenty of pacifists and Nazi sympathizers pushing the exact same crap you do today: "It's not our conflict, and we shouldn't get involved one way or the other. Just let Hitler and Germany have what they want because peace and servitude is better than bloodshed and freedom." We can (almost) all see in hindsight that they were a bunch of suckers doing exactly what Hitler and the Nazis wanted, which was keeping US public opinion divided and the US or of the war effort at much as possible for as long as possible. Crazy how Russia doesn't try to do that today with their sympathizers...
Monetarily and politically supporting the nazi's trying to seize borders vs. Russians beyond what they control is an interesting parallel, I will give you that. I look forward to this year's Banderite parades/celebrations, as I am sure you do.
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Squadron7
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2:30p, 7/17/23
AG
Be all that you can be!

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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Teslag • 2:51p, 7/17/23
Teslag said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
Oh look, more fear mongering trying to disguise itself as pacifism

Don't worry. We will be told soon that Russia deserves this land too since NATO expanded to the baltics.


Clearly Poland was asking for it by controlling land next to Russia. There are no good guys etc etc.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to nortex97 • 4:35p, 7/17/23
AG
nortex97 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
Well it didn't help that we had a bigoted 'progressive' Democrat in office as POTUS at the end of WW1, when Europe was exhausted, and as well when WW2 started, trying to play it neutral/look the other way with the nazi's and their fans running big industrial American companies (like Ford), looking to profit off the conflict.


The US "played it neutral" because there were plenty of pacifists and Nazi sympathizers pushing the exact same crap you do today: "It's not our conflict, and we shouldn't get involved one way or the other. Just let Hitler and Germany have what they want because peace and servitude is better than bloodshed and freedom." We can (almost) all see in hindsight that they were a bunch of suckers doing exactly what Hitler and the Nazis wanted, which was keeping US public opinion divided and the US or of the war effort at much as possible for as long as possible. Crazy how Russia doesn't try to do that today with their sympathizers...
Monetarily and politically supporting the nazi's trying to seize borders vs. Russians beyond what they control is an interesting parallel, I will give you that. I look forward to this year's Banderite parades/celebrations, as I am sure you do.


You keep doing everything you can to excuse and justify all of the rape, murder, and pillaging done by Russia, comrade. You're doing an excellent job.
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DTP02
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5:27p, 7/17/23
AG
Third World War movies need a new boogeyman. I ain't buying the big bad Russian military anymore after the performance of the last couple years.
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BonfireNerd04
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In reply to LMCane • 7:55p, 7/17/23
LMCane said:
BonfireNerd04 said:
WW2: Started because Germany saw Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave.

WW3: Might start because Russia sees Poland as an obstacle to accessing its East Prussian exclave (which they took from Germany at the end of WW2).
really?

you are trying to claim to educated adults on here-

that World War II started just because Hitler and the Nazis were annoyed over East Prussia?!?!

try again.
I'm not claiming that the Polish Corridor was Hitler's only territorial demand, but it's where the shooting started.
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nortex97
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 8:00p, 7/17/23
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
Well it didn't help that we had a bigoted 'progressive' Democrat in office as POTUS at the end of WW1, when Europe was exhausted, and as well when WW2 started, trying to play it neutral/look the other way with the nazi's and their fans running big industrial American companies (like Ford), looking to profit off the conflict.


The US "played it neutral" because there were plenty of pacifists and Nazi sympathizers pushing the exact same crap you do today: "It's not our conflict, and we shouldn't get involved one way or the other. Just let Hitler and Germany have what they want because peace and servitude is better than bloodshed and freedom." We can (almost) all see in hindsight that they were a bunch of suckers doing exactly what Hitler and the Nazis wanted, which was keeping US public opinion divided and the US or of the war effort at much as possible for as long as possible. Crazy how Russia doesn't try to do that today with their sympathizers...
Monetarily and politically supporting the nazi's trying to seize borders vs. Russians beyond what they control is an interesting parallel, I will give you that. I look forward to this year's Banderite parades/celebrations, as I am sure you do.


You keep doing everything you can to excuse and justify all of the rape, murder, and pillaging done by Russia, comrade. You're doing an excellent job.
Likewise, you've done a great job excusing any culpability of all actors other than Vladimir Putin, as a proximate cause/contributing factor in the destruction of the people of Ukraine and as well 300K deaths on the battlefield and starvation/inflation/hunger the war has created.
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TexAgBolter
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8:04p, 7/17/23
AG
My pops was 14th armored cav guarding Fulda. Makes you think.
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FriscoKid
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In reply to Eliminatus • 8:09p, 7/17/23
AG
Eliminatus said:
I'm just here for the drama and panic

It's been an interesting year to watch the division and "picking of sides". Code pick warriors have become pro-military, reliable conservative voices have started wearing pink hats, Tucker vs Levin, etc etc. I hate that Pedo is the president trying to navigate this since he bribed Ukraine out of millions, but this still seems like a just war. Ukraine should have the right to defend themselves.

If this thread were a game then I'd buy you a drink and we could watch the game together.
Hillary paid for warrant to spy on Trump.
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nortex97
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In reply to FriscoKid • 8:21p, 7/17/23
AG
It is interesting, I agree.

I've become very jaded and cynical about a lot of institutions I never would have thought possible earlier in life.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:24p, 7/17/23
nortex97 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
Well it didn't help that we had a bigoted 'progressive' Democrat in office as POTUS at the end of WW1, when Europe was exhausted, and as well when WW2 started, trying to play it neutral/look the other way with the nazi's and their fans running big industrial American companies (like Ford), looking to profit off the conflict.


The US "played it neutral" because there were plenty of pacifists and Nazi sympathizers pushing the exact same crap you do today: "It's not our conflict, and we shouldn't get involved one way or the other. Just let Hitler and Germany have what they want because peace and servitude is better than bloodshed and freedom." We can (almost) all see in hindsight that they were a bunch of suckers doing exactly what Hitler and the Nazis wanted, which was keeping US public opinion divided and the US or of the war effort at much as possible for as long as possible. Crazy how Russia doesn't try to do that today with their sympathizers...
Monetarily and politically supporting the nazi's trying to seize borders vs. Russians beyond what they control is an interesting parallel, I will give you that. I look forward to this year's Banderite parades/celebrations, as I am sure you do.


You keep doing everything you can to excuse and justify all of the rape, murder, and pillaging done by Russia, comrade. You're doing an excellent job.
Likewise, you've done a great job excusing any culpability of all actors other than Vladimir Putin, as a proximate cause/contributing factor in the destruction of the people of Ukraine and as well 300K deaths on the battlefield and starvation/inflation/hunger the war has created.


Correct. As he's the only one who decided to launch an unprovoked invasion, no matter how many pretzels you have to twist yourself into in your strange desire to justify it.
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nortex97
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 8:39p, 7/17/23
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
nortex97 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
nortex97 said:
Well it didn't help that we had a bigoted 'progressive' Democrat in office as POTUS at the end of WW1, when Europe was exhausted, and as well when WW2 started, trying to play it neutral/look the other way with the nazi's and their fans running big industrial American companies (like Ford), looking to profit off the conflict.


The US "played it neutral" because there were plenty of pacifists and Nazi sympathizers pushing the exact same crap you do today: "It's not our conflict, and we shouldn't get involved one way or the other. Just let Hitler and Germany have what they want because peace and servitude is better than bloodshed and freedom." We can (almost) all see in hindsight that they were a bunch of suckers doing exactly what Hitler and the Nazis wanted, which was keeping US public opinion divided and the US or of the war effort at much as possible for as long as possible. Crazy how Russia doesn't try to do that today with their sympathizers...
Monetarily and politically supporting the nazi's trying to seize borders vs. Russians beyond what they control is an interesting parallel, I will give you that. I look forward to this year's Banderite parades/celebrations, as I am sure you do.


You keep doing everything you can to excuse and justify all of the rape, murder, and pillaging done by Russia, comrade. You're doing an excellent job.
Likewise, you've done a great job excusing any culpability of all actors other than Vladimir Putin, as a proximate cause/contributing factor in the destruction of the people of Ukraine and as well 300K deaths on the battlefield and starvation/inflation/hunger the war has created.


Correct. As he's the only one who decided to launch an unprovoked invasion, no matter how many pretzels you have to twist yourself into in your strange desire to justify it.
Similarly, kudo's to your patriotic confidence in the team of Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Samantha Power, Victoria Nuland, Tony Blinken, Gen. Milley, Jake Sullivan, and John F Kerry (who served in Vietnam, btw) to lead us into a war with Russia and maybe China next.
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