Probably already covered in the thread but tipping based on price is dumb entirely. When i travel i end up at the Mexican place at the San Francisco airport occasionally. They charge $14 a beer and $23 for chips/salsa/guac. That exact order might cost me $15 at a stand-alone Mexican restaurant. Why am I tipping $5-6 at the airport and $2-3 for the same meal and service at a real restaurant where I'm probably getting better food and service? Not even getting into the 10% sales tax with the additional 5% workers benefits tax in San Fran…

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

What I've started noticing is that the tips they show on the receipt skip 20%. Last night we went to dinner and they showed 15%, 25% and 30%. So what people now consider normal you have to do your own math and I'm guessing a lot of people just take the middle line and move on.

I used to double sales tax then round to the next dollar. Then we started drinking water which doesn't usually get charged for so I bumped it some to acknowledge the waiter taking care of something we aren't charged for so I started doing 20% but they're making this harder than it has to be.

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

"Just a couple questions for ya"

[flips screen]

LOYAL AG said:

---

What I've started noticing is that the tips they show on the receipt skip 20%. Last night we went to dinner and they showed 15%, 25% and 30%. So what people now consider normal you have to do your own math and I'm guessing a lot of people just take the middle line and move on.

---

Always do your own math, I've found some of those percentages to be off by a significant amount, also some of them include tax with the calculation of the percentage.

CheeseSndwch said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

What I've started noticing is that the tips they show on the receipt skip 20%. Last night we went to dinner and they showed 15%, 25% and 30%. So what people now consider normal you have to do your own math and I'm guessing a lot of people just take the middle line and move on.

---

Always do your own math, I've found some of those percentages to be off by a significant amount, also some of them include tax with the calculation of the percentage.

---

And in some areas that have employee benefits fees (mandated SF healthcare for example), the tip is calculated off of the total of the food, fees, and taxes. Crooked as hell…

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

"Just a couple questions for ya"

[flips screen]

---

Im tipping a hell of a lot less after this type of behavior started. I'm hoping others are responding the same way.

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

Enzomatic said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

"Just a couple questions for ya"

[flips screen]

---

Im tipping a hell of a lot less after this type of behavior started. I'm hoping others are responding the same way.

---

Feel like i'm being extorted by somebody about to handle my food.

I guess I'm old school. I'm a pretty big tipper particularly to females who do a good job and are smoking hot.

At a brewery near me, they changed their food service recently. No longer is there staff bringing you food. You now go to a counter, select the items, they send you a text when your food is ready and you go pick it up at the same location. You get your food, flatware, napkins all yourself. I am fine with that.

But when you order your food and go to pay, the card machine pops up with a starting tip selection of 18%, then 22%, then 25%. The 'custom tip' is a really small selection in the corner. And of course, the cashier is standing there staring at you before your food is prepared. The pessimist in me wonders if food is ever prepared differently for lousy tippers?

Enzomatic said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

"Just a couple questions for ya"

[flips screen]

---

Im tipping a hell of a lot less after this type of behavior started. I'm hoping others are responding the same way.

---

I went through a nice Mexican drive through (El Rey) in Houston and they gave me the ticket to sign and it asked for a tip… I put zero and signed it, the guy at the drive through window didn't like it… didn't care they did nothing for me but hand me my over priced food

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

---

Lol. The only reason you're for tipping is either (a) you have ownership in a restaurant (b) work in a restaurant or (c) so cowardly that you crumble in front of the tip screen from the social guilt of not gifting money to a stranger for carrying a plate to your table

Bobaloo said:

---

I guess I'm old school. I'm a pretty big tipper particularly to females who do a good job and are smoking hot.

---

We're discussing restaurants...

I have no issue taking my time finding the screen for no tip or manually typing in zero at places where tipping doesn't make sense i.e. drive throughs, counter service places, etc.

Playing on your phone behind the counter while I make my kids their frozen yogurt doesn't get you a tip...

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

So you have two burger joints.

Joint A pays the wait staff $2.15, expecting tips, and charges $8 for a burger.

Joint B pays the staff $20, not expecting tips, and charges $15 for a burger.

Neither advertise their pay structure and both have excellent burgers

Who gets your business?

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

---

Lol. The only reason you're for tipping is either (a) you have ownership in a restaurant (b) work in a restaurant or (c) so cowardly that you crumble in front of the tip screen from the social guilt of not gifting money to a stranger for carrying a plate to your table

---

Dear God. You can't be serious. Do you really not understand math? You're awfully smug for someone who, with each new post, looks really poorly educated on basic economics.

Pop quiz. In a world without tips which of the following do you think happens?
A - Waitstaff continue to work for $2.13/hr without tips.
B - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner eats the difference.
C - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner passes on the cost increase to the consumer.
D - waitstaff go away entirely.

Here's some hints. A is illegal so we can toss that one aside and D isn't gonna happen because most people enjoy the restaurant experience with waitstaff or it wouldn't exist. So which is it? Do prices go up or not when the owner's labor cost goes from $2.13/hr to $15/hr? I'm arguing C is the most likely outcome which means the cost of dining out doesn't change regardless of whether you tip or not.

If you want to argue the tipping system doesn't work to incentivize good service or that tipping is out of control I'm all for that discussion and agree with the latter. You're arguing that your tips are subsidizing the owners profits and that is just factually incorrect.

I don't own restaurants but I do own a business that supports several of them so I'm intimately familiar with the economics of restaurants. And I'm an educated person that understands basic math and supply and demand. And labor law in this space. So please share your background and how you reached your conclusions.

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

---

Lol. The only reason you're for tipping is either (a) you have ownership in a restaurant (b) work in a restaurant or (c) so cowardly that you crumble in front of the tip screen from the social guilt of not gifting money to a stranger for carrying a plate to your table

---

Dear God. You can't be serious. Do you really not understand math? You're awfully smug for someone who, with each new post, looks really poorly educated on basic economics.

Pop quiz. In a world without tips which of the following do you think happens?
A - Waitstaff continue to work for $2.13/hr without tips.
B - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner eats the difference.
C - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner passes on the cost increase to the consumer.
D - waitstaff go away entirely.

Here's some hints. A is illegal so we can toss that one aside and D isn't gonna happen because most people enjoy the restaurant experience with waitstaff or it wouldn't exist. So which is it? Do prices go up or not when the owner's labor cost goes from $2.13/hr to $15/hr? I'm arguing C is the most likely outcome which means the cost of dining out doesn't change regardless of whether you tip or not.

If you want to argue the tipping system doesn't work to incentivize good service or that tipping is out of control I'm all for that discussion and agree with the latter. You're arguing that your tips are subsidizing the owners profits and that is just factually incorrect.

I don't own restaurants but I do own a business that supports several of them so I'm intimately familiar with the economics of restaurants. And I'm an educated person that understands basic math and supply and demand. And labor law in this space. So please share your background and how you reached your conclusions.

---

Why do the wages have to go up to $15/hr?

A) Only has to up to $7.25/hr. MAYBE it averages out to $15/hr...but maybe it doesn't.

The owner does not have to institute $15/hr. The owner may choose to, however.

But, I agree, that if the WAGES go up, the owner is NOT going to eat the difference.

Almost every time I go in somewhere since Covid the place is trashed.

Tables dirty, bathroom wrecked, **** all over the floor and under the tables,

These places don't want to pay anyone to clean but once a day.

Sad what's happened to the restaurant industry.

Sloppy as hell nowadays.

MarathonAg12 said:

---

You see it every where now. Even at places you would never expect it with those digital screens that flip around to the customer. Subway, picking up carry-out at restaurants, Starbucks, Sonic and ride share apps just to name a few. Is it the Bidenflation?



Serious question. Is $5 not enough for some DoorDash driver dropping off a $20 meal. He isn't taking my order, refilling my drinks or making sure I'm happy with my dining experience.

DoorDash driver curses woman out for 25% tip on $20 order: “Nice house for $5 tip… f*ck you” pic.twitter.com/7jZSn2by7W

— Daily Loud (@DailyLoud) July 6, 2023

---

Why do you use Door Dash? Cook at home. Eat at home. Such a waste of money.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

Almost every time I go in somewhere since Covid the place is trashed.

Tables dirty, bathroom wrecked, **** all over the floor and under the tables,

These places don't want to pay anyone to clean but once a day.

Sad what's happened to the restaurant industry.

Sloppy as hell nowadays.

---

Boomer Central

Oyster DuPree said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

Almost every time I go in somewhere since Covid the place is trashed.

Tables dirty, bathroom wrecked, **** all over the floor and under the tables,

These places don't want to pay anyone to clean but once a day.

Sad what's happened to the restaurant industry.

Sloppy as hell nowadays.

---

Boomer Central

---

Send the boomer mommies in with a handle of Fabuloso!

I'm tipping less than I used to (as a %). Go get a non fast food burger, fries and soft drinks for 4 and it's $60 plus tax. Sorry, I'm not tipping $10-12 for basic order taking and dropping off drinks and plates of food that maybe constituted 3-4 minutes of actual attentive work at our table. I've started tipping 10% as my standard.

UAS Ag said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

---

Lol. The only reason you're for tipping is either (a) you have ownership in a restaurant (b) work in a restaurant or (c) so cowardly that you crumble in front of the tip screen from the social guilt of not gifting money to a stranger for carrying a plate to your table

---

Dear God. You can't be serious. Do you really not understand math? You're awfully smug for someone who, with each new post, looks really poorly educated on basic economics.

Pop quiz. In a world without tips which of the following do you think happens?
A - Waitstaff continue to work for $2.13/hr without tips.
B - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner eats the difference.
C - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner passes on the cost increase to the consumer.
D - waitstaff go away entirely.

Here's some hints. A is illegal so we can toss that one aside and D isn't gonna happen because most people enjoy the restaurant experience with waitstaff or it wouldn't exist. So which is it? Do prices go up or not when the owner's labor cost goes from $2.13/hr to $15/hr? I'm arguing C is the most likely outcome which means the cost of dining out doesn't change regardless of whether you tip or not.

If you want to argue the tipping system doesn't work to incentivize good service or that tipping is out of control I'm all for that discussion and agree with the latter. You're arguing that your tips are subsidizing the owners profits and that is just factually incorrect.

I don't own restaurants but I do own a business that supports several of them so I'm intimately familiar with the economics of restaurants. And I'm an educated person that understands basic math and supply and demand. And labor law in this space. So please share your background and how you reached your conclusions.

---

Why do the wages have to go up to $15/hr?

A) Only has to up to $7.25/hr. MAYBE it averages out to $15/hr...but maybe it doesn't.

The owner does not have to institute $15/hr. The owner may choose to, however.

But, I agree, that if the WAGES go up, the owner is NOT going to eat the difference.

---

They have to go to that number because if they don't those people will take easier jobs than waiting tables. They're making $15 or more now so they aren't going to stay for lower wages even if guaranteed. But you got the real point which is that in the absence of tips wages must go up which means prices must go up which makes the notion that tips are somehow a gift to the employee or the restaurant owner silly.

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

---

Lol. The only reason you're for tipping is either (a) you have ownership in a restaurant (b) work in a restaurant or (c) so cowardly that you crumble in front of the tip screen from the social guilt of not gifting money to a stranger for carrying a plate to your table

---

Dear God. You can't be serious. Do you really not understand math? You're awfully smug for someone who, with each new post, looks really poorly educated on basic economics.

Pop quiz. In a world without tips which of the following do you think happens?
A - Waitstaff continue to work for $2.13/hr without tips.
B - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner eats the difference.
C - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner passes on the cost increase to the consumer.
D - waitstaff go away entirely.

Here's some hints. A is illegal so we can toss that one aside and D isn't gonna happen because most people enjoy the restaurant experience with waitstaff or it wouldn't exist. So which is it? Do prices go up or not when the owner's labor cost goes from $2.13/hr to $15/hr? I'm arguing C is the most likely outcome which means the cost of dining out doesn't change regardless of whether you tip or not.

If you want to argue the tipping system doesn't work to incentivize good service or that tipping is out of control I'm all for that discussion and agree with the latter. You're arguing that your tips are subsidizing the owners profits and that is just factually incorrect.

I don't own restaurants but I do own a business that supports several of them so I'm intimately familiar with the economics of restaurants. And I'm an educated person that understands basic math and supply and demand. And labor law in this space. So please share your background and how you reached your conclusions.

---

Exactly as I said. You're in the industry. You want this paradigm to exist because it keeps you in business. End of discussion

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

LOYAL AG said:

---

BudFox7 said:

---

Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

---

Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

---

I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

---

You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

---

Lol. The only reason you're for tipping is either (a) you have ownership in a restaurant (b) work in a restaurant or (c) so cowardly that you crumble in front of the tip screen from the social guilt of not gifting money to a stranger for carrying a plate to your table

---

Dear God. You can't be serious. Do you really not understand math? You're awfully smug for someone who, with each new post, looks really poorly educated on basic economics.

Pop quiz. In a world without tips which of the following do you think happens?
A - Waitstaff continue to work for $2.13/hr without tips.
B - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner eats the difference.
C - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner passes on the cost increase to the consumer.
D - waitstaff go away entirely.

Here's some hints. A is illegal so we can toss that one aside and D isn't gonna happen because most people enjoy the restaurant experience with waitstaff or it wouldn't exist. So which is it? Do prices go up or not when the owner's labor cost goes from $2.13/hr to $15/hr? I'm arguing C is the most likely outcome which means the cost of dining out doesn't change regardless of whether you tip or not.

If you want to argue the tipping system doesn't work to incentivize good service or that tipping is out of control I'm all for that discussion and agree with the latter. You're arguing that your tips are subsidizing the owners profits and that is just factually incorrect.

I don't own restaurants but I do own a business that supports several of them so I'm intimately familiar with the economics of restaurants. And I'm an educated person that understands basic math and supply and demand. And labor law in this space. So please share your background and how you reached your conclusions.

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Exactly as I said. You're in the industry. You want this paradigm to exist because it keeps you in business. End of discussion

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So are you going to answer the question or continue to prance around showing how bad you are at math and economics? It really is a simple question.

WSJ now has an article on this called "The Tipping Backlash Has Begun". Personally, I've always tipped 20% as my standard on the bottom line total which is way over tipping, technically, but I waited tables in college and have a soft spot for food servers.

I do not tip in any self-service or counter scenarios.

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/tipping-down-service-workers-a4c27a2e?reflink=integratedwebview_share

Quote:

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People are cutting back on tipping, frustrated by ubiquitous requests for gratuities.

As of November, service-sector workers in nonrestaurant leisure and hospitality jobs made $1.28 an hour in tips, on average, down 7% from the $1.38 an hour they made a year prior. The data is according to an analysis of 300,000 small and medium-size businesses by payroll provider Gusto.

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Quote:

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Some businesses are raising worker pay in part as a response to lower gratuities.

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Thank god the government is here to help!

Quote:

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Meanwhile, governments have started to get involved.

In October, Chicago became the second-largest U.S. city to vote to require tipped workers to make the full minimum wage. The full federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, while the federal tipped minimum wage many bar and restaurant workers earn is $2.13 an hour. Legislation to get rid of tipped minimums is moving in eight states and measures are on the ballot in an additional four, according to worker-advocacy organization One Fair Wage.

"There's an ongoing rejection of the whole system by both workers and consumers who have been increasingly pissed about it," says Saru Jayaraman, director of the Food Labor Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley and president of One Fair Wage, an advocate for higher wages for restaurant workers.

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YouBet said:

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WSJ now has an article on this called "The Tipping Backlash Has Begun". Personally, I've always tipped 20% as my standard on the bottom line total which is way over tipping, technically, but I waited tables in college and have a soft spot for food servers.

I do not tip in any self-service or counter scenarios.

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/tipping-down-service-workers-a4c27a2e?reflink=integratedwebview_share

Quote:

---

People are cutting back on tipping, frustrated by ubiquitous requests for gratuities.

As of November, service-sector workers in nonrestaurant leisure and hospitality jobs made $1.28 an hour in tips, on average, down 7% from the $1.38 an hour they made a year prior. The data is according to an analysis of 300,000 small and medium-size businesses by payroll provider Gusto.

---

Quote:

---

Some businesses are raising worker pay in part as a response to lower gratuities.

---

Thank god the government is here to help!

Quote:

---

Meanwhile, governments have started to get involved.

In October, Chicago became the second-largest U.S. city to vote to require tipped workers to make the full minimum wage. The full federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, while the federal tipped minimum wage many bar and restaurant workers earn is $2.13 an hour. Legislation to get rid of tipped minimums is moving in eight states and measures are on the ballot in an additional four, according to worker-advocacy organization One Fair Wage.

"There's an ongoing rejection of the whole system by both workers and consumers who have been increasingly pissed about it," says Saru Jayaraman, director of the Food Labor Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley and president of One Fair Wage, an advocate for higher wages for restaurant workers.

---

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Couple of things. Technically the federal rules for tipped minimum wage is not $2.13 but rather minimum wage minus $5.12 which matters for a couple of reasons. First, this is the federal requirement but a surprising number of states have much higher minimum for tipped employees. Second, the business is responsible for making sure the employee makes state minimum wage in the event there aren't sufficient tips to get them to that point. Doesn't happen often but it does happen. Third, overtime wage for waitstaff isn't $2.13 x 1.5 which is $3.20 but rather $7.25 x 1.5 minus $5.12 which is $5.76. Subtle but important difference for the owner.

This thread and the other active one on tipping demonstrates that people actually believe waitstaff only cost restaurants $2.13/hr and that sans tipping wages wouldn't rise and prices would stay the same. It's a bizarre notion with no basis in reality but like most opinions these days it's more important to be emotionally attached to being wrong than to know the truth.

I will say that if Texas goes the route of manipulating wages for waitstaff I'll stop tipping entirely. I don't tip at Koppe Bridge despite their ridiculous tip jar at the counter, I only tip at Sonic if I'm in a stall and they bring the food and I spend the extra 10 seconds looking for how to get to $0 everywhere else it's asked for. It's definitely a turnoff at businesses that I know don't have specific carve outs for tipped employees. Kind of like the mandatory delivery fee pizza places charge. That's coming out of the driver's tip and he can take it up with the owner.

JB93 said:

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I'm tipping less than I used to (as a %). Go get a non fast food burger, fries and soft drinks for 4 and it's $60 plus tax. Sorry, I'm not tipping $10-12 for basic order taking and dropping off drinks and plates of food that maybe constituted 3-4 minutes of actual attentive work at our table. I've started tipping 10% as my standard.

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this is more or less what I do. Counter service (order at counter and they bring food and bus table when complete) places get a couple bucks in tip - mostly as a "thanks for cleaning up after me."

It does feel like this practice is about to undergo change. We've run across more and more places (in large cities) where a "service" fee is baked into the bill so you end up not having to tip or in some cases restaurants have gone to full salary waitstaff and have removed tipping....the European model if you will.

I'm not sure I care either way at this point in life. If the restaurant wants to make their waitstaff traditional FTE's and then the meals reflect that cost then go for it. (And I agree with you that the economics change depending on the pay structure a restaurant adopts which should be a duh realization. In some outlier cases, you will also have benefits come into play). I can choose not to eat there if I don't want but I'm not sure it would deter me.

LOYAL AG said:

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YouBet said:

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WSJ now has an article on this called "The Tipping Backlash Has Begun". Personally, I've always tipped 20% as my standard on the bottom line total which is way over tipping, technically, but I waited tables in college and have a soft spot for food servers.

I do not tip in any self-service or counter scenarios.

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/tipping-down-service-workers-a4c27a2e?reflink=integratedwebview_share

Quote:

---

People are cutting back on tipping, frustrated by ubiquitous requests for gratuities.

As of November, service-sector workers in nonrestaurant leisure and hospitality jobs made $1.28 an hour in tips, on average, down 7% from the $1.38 an hour they made a year prior. The data is according to an analysis of 300,000 small and medium-size businesses by payroll provider Gusto.

---

Quote:

---

Some businesses are raising worker pay in part as a response to lower gratuities.

---

Thank god the government is here to help!

Quote:

---

Meanwhile, governments have started to get involved.

In October, Chicago became the second-largest U.S. city to vote to require tipped workers to make the full minimum wage. The full federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, while the federal tipped minimum wage many bar and restaurant workers earn is $2.13 an hour. Legislation to get rid of tipped minimums is moving in eight states and measures are on the ballot in an additional four, according to worker-advocacy organization One Fair Wage.

"There's an ongoing rejection of the whole system by both workers and consumers who have been increasingly pissed about it," says Saru Jayaraman, director of the Food Labor Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley and president of One Fair Wage, an advocate for higher wages for restaurant workers.

---

---

Couple of things. Technically the federal rules for tipped minimum wage is not $2.13 but rather minimum wage minus $5.12 which matters for a couple of reasons. First, this is the federal requirement but a surprising number of states have much higher minimum for tipped employees. Second, the business is responsible for making sure the employee makes state minimum wage in the event there aren't sufficient tips to get them to that point. Doesn't happen often but it does happen. Third, overtime wage for waitstaff isn't $2.13 x 1.5 which is $3.20 but rather $7.25 x 1.5 minus $5.12 which is $5.76. Subtle but important difference for the owner.

This thread and the other active one on tipping demonstrates that people actually believe waitstaff only cost restaurants $2.13/hr and that sans tipping wages wouldn't rise and prices would stay the same. It's a bizarre notion with no basis in reality but like most opinions these days it's more important to be emotionally attached to being wrong than to know the truth.

I will say that if Texas goes the route of manipulating wages for waitstaff I'll stop tipping entirely. I don't tip at Koppe Bridge despite their ridiculous tip jar at the counter, I only tip at Sonic if I'm in a stall and they bring the food and I spend the extra 10 seconds looking for how to get to $0 everywhere else it's asked for. It's definitely a turnoff at businesses that I know don't have specific carve outs for tipped employees. Kind of like the mandatory delivery fee pizza places charge. That's coming out of the driver's tip and he can take it up with the owner.

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This is my view. I only tip you if you're making $2.13/hr and I know your pay is basically dependent on tips.

If you make $15/hr, why should I tip you? I don't tip the checkout guy at Stripes when I get my Laredo Taco breakfast burrito. I don't tip the checkout person at IGA when I grab some groceries. Why not? Because their job is not predicated on being tipped. Same goes for someone making $15/hr to bring me food.

YouBet said:

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It does feel like this practice is about to undergo change. We've run across more and more places (in large cities) where a "service" fee is baked into the bill so you end up not having to tip or in some cases restaurants have gone to full salary waitstaff and have removed tipping....the European model if you will.

I'm not sure I care either way at this point in life. If the restaurant wants to make their waitstaff traditional FTE's and then the meals reflect that cost then go for it. (And I agree with you that the economics change depending on the pay structure a restaurant adopts which should be a duh realization. In some outlier cases, you will also have benefits come into play). I can choose not to eat there if I don't want but I'm not sure it would deter me.

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I'm exactly with you on this. We went to Europe last year and honestly it was nice not worrying about tipping. We did meet an American in France who had waited here and there he said he made more money in the U.S. Either way I don't care but if they're typical FTE with a normal wage don't ask me for tips on top of that just kill the practice at your establishment and I'll be happy IF service is still good. Ultimately you're going to win or lose my business based on quality and service first and price second. How we get to the price is mostly irrelevant to me.

Barber $5 tip

Pop a lock guy - $25 for a very hot day in August.

AC maintenance guy - $25

Family doctor. - Collin Street bakery item or Goode Company pecan pie

Waiters (non fast food) - 20%

Postman - nominal gift.

Wife - sometimes all she gets is the tip.

Questions?

LOYAL AG said:

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BudFox7 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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BudFox7 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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BudFox7 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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BudFox7 said:

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Tips are gifts. You're paying the employment costs of a company to some person you likely don't know and will probably never see again.

Do people tip you for doing your job? If you do an exceptional job quarterly or yearly, your employer may tip you with a bonus.

I'm paying zero of another companies employment costs. Zero.

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Tell us you're bad at math without saying you're bad at math. True wait staff get paid $2.13/hr plus tips which in a typical restaurant in CS will get them to about $15/hr, maybe $20. Labor costs are about 20% in a restaurant with wait staff being a small piece of that, maybe 25% of labor or 5% of sales. If you eliminate tips then the restaurant will have to pay $20/hr for the exact same help and the price you pay will go up commensurate with the additional cost to the employer.

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I couldn't care less how you compensate your employees. It's not my obligation to do so, it's yours. Nor do I care how you price your products in an environment where you weren't able to lobby the govt for lower than standard compensation rates.

Either way you won't fool or guilt me into compensating your employees for you.

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You don't or won't get it. In a world where tipping isn't the norm all restaurants go up in price. It really is simple math. At least in this world you have control over what your final total is. Take away tipping and the resulting price increase means you lose that control.

So be as sour as you'd like. And as cheap as you'd like. Today you can do that. But please understand basic math along the way.

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Lol. The only reason you're for tipping is either (a) you have ownership in a restaurant (b) work in a restaurant or (c) so cowardly that you crumble in front of the tip screen from the social guilt of not gifting money to a stranger for carrying a plate to your table

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Dear God. You can't be serious. Do you really not understand math? You're awfully smug for someone who, with each new post, looks really poorly educated on basic economics.

Pop quiz. In a world without tips which of the following do you think happens?
A - Waitstaff continue to work for $2.13/hr without tips.
B - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner eats the difference.
C - Without tips waitstaff wages go up to $15/hr and the owner passes on the cost increase to the consumer.
D - waitstaff go away entirely.

Here's some hints. A is illegal so we can toss that one aside and D isn't gonna happen because most people enjoy the restaurant experience with waitstaff or it wouldn't exist. So which is it? Do prices go up or not when the owner's labor cost goes from $2.13/hr to $15/hr? I'm arguing C is the most likely outcome which means the cost of dining out doesn't change regardless of whether you tip or not.

If you want to argue the tipping system doesn't work to incentivize good service or that tipping is out of control I'm all for that discussion and agree with the latter. You're arguing that your tips are subsidizing the owners profits and that is just factually incorrect.

I don't own restaurants but I do own a business that supports several of them so I'm intimately familiar with the economics of restaurants. And I'm an educated person that understands basic math and supply and demand. And labor law in this space. So please share your background and how you reached your conclusions.

---

Exactly as I said. You're in the industry. You want this paradigm to exist because it keeps you in business. End of discussion

---

So are you going to answer the question or continue to prance around showing how bad you are at math and economics? It really is a simple question.

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Exposed.