Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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It's not a farce. It's symbolic. It's going to be okay.

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Truth matters. It matters a great deal as well because we are told over and over that the Civil War was about slavery yet since slavery was legal in the North even after it was in the South that is at best "complicated". The war was certainly about slavery but it was about stopping the South from leaving the Union more than anything.

I have no issue with Juneteenth as a Holiday and that the idea of celebrating the end of slavery is a good thing. Slavery was an abomination and something that did irreparable harm to millions of people and to the nation as a whole. Still it is important to understand slavery and the truth about it in order to understand the context of it.

For instance when you have to make the argument that the North had the right to go to war with the South and force them to stay in the Union even though they had voted by a 2/3rds Majority in every state that left and you don't have the moral reasoning of slavery it really changes that argument. It certainly shifts the view of Lincoln and his motives and who was behind him. You can certainly argue that the end goal was worth it but that doesn't mean the truth should be thrown aside.

Slavery is a very complicated subject that is rarely taught with objectivity. For instance if you REALLY want to know the biggest factor that ended slavery the real answer is the Industrial Revolution.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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This is the Leftist way of crawfishing around Lincoln's own words that his objective was preserving the union at all costs and if that meant not a single slave being freed so be it

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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That's preposterous. Are you telling me the civil war was fought over slavery (as some high school teacher likes to suggest on F16), yet there were slaves up North in many of the states? Were those states exempted from fighting the civil war over slavery or what?

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I'll just consider this as many people playing stupid as long as they could so they could get free labor. And at the time, who was rushing to let them go? A practice that was done since the beginning of time was finally lifted.

Honestly life sucked ass in that time period. Especially when I was walking around Pickett's Mill Battlefield during the summer. Thinking about how hot it was and the wool uniforms worn and terrible medical treatment.

I'll take my Camelback, Improved Hot Weather Combat Uniform and 800MG of ibuprofen

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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It's not a farce. It's symbolic. It's going to be okay.

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It is symbolic for Texas. But after St. Fentanyl it was convenient for the rest of the country to grab onto it.

Juneteenth is just a way for the libs to say that a Republican controlled state was the last to abolish slavery when in fact that's not true. It only became a federal holiday on June 17, 2021. All part of the plan for the current marxists running our government to dehumanize conservatives.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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This is the Leftist way of crawfishing around Lincoln's own words that his objective was preserving the union at all costs and if that meant not a single slave being freed so be it

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First off, you have not evidence that I'm a leftist. Stop lying.

Crawfishing? There is no need and you ignore context and nuance of that letter, along with his post script as well.

I've noticed a lot of people crying about a random holiday. Who cares? Celebrate it if you want, or don't. Why people let this bother them, I'll never know.

Sshhh. Some fear black people.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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If that's the case why didn't Lincoln declare all slaves free prior to the war ?

Lesotho said:

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I've noticed a lot of people crying about a random holiday. Who cares? Celebrate it if you want, or don't. Why people let this bother them, I'll never know.

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Why is your username a small African country ?

agz win said:

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Sshhh. Some fear black people.

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Lol who fears black people why would I fear them other than what the crime stats say ?

Lesotho said:

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I've noticed a lot of people crying about a random holiday. Who cares? Celebrate it if you want, or don't. Why people let this bother them, I'll never know.

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I'm not crying, it's just another day to me, I don't take holidays because I get time and half for working them. So the more holidays the feds make, the more money I put in my pocket. And today being my overtime day, I'll be working a 16 hours shift at time and half.

LarryElder said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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If that's the case why didn't Lincoln declare all slaves free prior to the war ?

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Do you honestly not know the reason?

How is this goofy thread still going?

LarryElder said:

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Lesotho said:

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I've noticed a lot of people crying about a random holiday. Who cares? Celebrate it if you want, or don't. Why people let this bother them, I'll never know.

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Why is your username a small African country ?

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Interesting place. It's an enclaved and landlocked country with borders you can see from space.

aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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The last slaves in the US were freed by Indian tribes after even Delaware and Kentucky

doubledog said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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Not quite true. Slavery was abolished on a state by state basis in the North. Starting with Vermont in 1777.

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Did you miss the part where he said "the last"?

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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No Secession was NOT all about slavery.

It was related to Morrill and the Morrill Act that ultimately gave Land Grants to Universities.

It was a decades long fight and was a fight over State v Federal rights and Taxation. The North wanted to Tax the South on their Agriculture exports and those Taxes be used for Industrialization in the North.

That Taxation would hurt the economy in the South and open up imports.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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This is the Leftist way of crawfishing around Lincoln's own words that his objective was preserving the union at all costs and if that meant not a single slave being freed so be it

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First off, you have not evidence that I'm a leftist. Stop lying.

Crawfishing? There is no need and you ignore context and nuance of that letter, along with his post script as well.

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Nearly all of your posts align with leftist principles, and you show up on threads to play gotcha or whataboutism when the topic is anything in favor of Conservatives, Republicans, or Christians. The data speak for you.

Happy whatever you celebrate.

GAC06 said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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The last slaves in the US were freed by Indian tribes after even Delaware and Kentucky

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Great point, had forgotten about that. Last slaves were freed in 1869 after the US put tremendous pressure on the Indian tribes to comply or else lose financial support. Some of those tribes had no intention of giving up their slaves. So the last slaves in the US were owned by POC.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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No Secession was NOT all about slavery.

It was related to Morrill and the Morrill Act that ultimately gave Land Grants to Universities.

It was a decades long fight and was a fight over State v Federal rights and Taxation. The North wanted to Tax the South on their Agriculture exports and those Taxes be used for Industrialization in the North.

That Taxation would hurt the economy in the South and open up imports.

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So that's the bulk of what was written in the secession documents? That's what Alex Stephen's spoke about in his Cornerstone speech?

But I'd be happy to look at any sources you used to come to that conclusion.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Secession was all about slavery. The fighting of the war was multifaceted.

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This is the Leftist way of crawfishing around Lincoln's own words that his objective was preserving the union at all costs and if that meant not a single slave being freed so be it

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Ghost is right, for the southern elite (those who owned slaves, few, or were bound to the slave economy, many) it was about slavery or "southern rights", which was the right to own property i.e. slaves. For the rank and file southern solder it was about their homes and Union invasions.

For the north it was preserving the Union, which to them meant their homes and families.

What ever they were fighting for, the end result was the 13th amendment to the Constitution, which I think we all agree was a good thing

I did also forget that secession was also due in part to the southern slave states losing their grip on federal power due to mass immigration to the north and the failed attempt to limit the spread of slavery westward.

chickencoupe16 said:

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doubledog said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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Not quite true. Slavery was abolished on a state by state basis in the North. Starting with Vermont in 1777.

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Did you miss the part where he said "the last"?

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No I was concentrating on the word North. The border states were the last to abolish slavery.

aggie93 said:

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GAC06 said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves, it just declared that in the Confederacy they were free even though the Union didn't control the Confederacy. Once the war ended they freed the slaves in the Confederacy. Thus the real irony is the last slaves in the US weren't freed until the 13th Amendment was ratified in December of 1865 which impacted the slaves still held in Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and New Jersey (New Jersey had made slavery about 15 years before but it only applied to new slaves so current slaves were still kept in slavery). Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware all voted against the 13th btw and later voted for it decades later.

So Juneteenth is a farce, the last slaves weren't freed until December of '65 in the North. Just another bit of history they have tried to quash over time.

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The last slaves in the US were freed by Indian tribes after even Delaware and Kentucky

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Great point, had forgotten about that. Last slaves were freed in 1869 after the US put tremendous pressure on the Indian tribes to comply or else lose financial support. Some of those tribes had no intention of giving up their slaves. So the last slaves in the US were owned by POC.

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In fact , many if not most Native Americans west of the Mississippi practiced slavery well into the 20th century.