aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Ag with kids said:

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FireAg said:

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Don't blame folks on TexAgs for DeSantis's failure to get his message across to the masses…

His campaign failed because he was unable to communicate the virtues of his candidacy adequately…

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He hasn't failed to get the message out.

Trump is just a bullhorn at full volume all the time. Drowns out quite a lot...

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Then by definition, he has FAILED to get his message out...

He didn't do nearly enough to get people to look his way in this day and age...

Now we can sit here and debate the vitrues of doing things the polite, old school way versus the boisterous, in-your-face Trump way, but virtue is meaningless...the goal is to win the primary...so he should have done more to grab the attention of voters in a manner that would help him win the primary...

Fact is, trump isn't nearly the bullhorn he once was...the media carry him because he's good ratings...like him or hate him...he brings really good ratings...

DeSantis needed to do things that would force the media to pay attention...he needed to do things that would boost media coverage ratings...

He chose not to...and a such, he didn't give himself a chance to win the R Primary this cycle...

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Well until it's over it's not over. No votes have been cast.

That said I don't per se disagree with you only I don't think there was much of anything he could have done. The suggestions you have made would not have worked in terms of copying Vivek or trying to out Trump Trump. The problem he has had is fundamentally he is a threat to all sides. He is a threat to Trump by trying to take his crown. He is a threat to the Establishment because of his policies. He is the biggest threat to the Democrats because no one has been as effective at kicking their ass.

Are there things he could have done differently? Sure. I think he should have gone on more shows with adversarial interviewers sooner but he has done well with them. One thing I didn't expect is so many "conservative" influencers and broadcasters treated him so unfairly and openly lied about him. Charlie Kirk. Tim Pool. PBD, and of course the biggest disappointment in Tucker Carlson. I could name a dozen others that have basically moved in at Mar a Lago. Out of all of them only PBD even allowed him on his show and when he did it was to do that idiotic shoe stunt. It was deeply disappointing and eye opening, they showed they cared far more about Trump and many have a business model based around him than anything having to do with conservatism or even being honest with their listeners.

We will find out soon enough. The reality is though that Trump has an empire built on sand. There are so many ways it can collapse spectacularly I don't even know where to start. If he is the nominee we need him to succeed but it feels very much like this to me.

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This is exactly why the "Vote for Trump because he at least isn't the Democrats" no longer works for me. There is an actual way that we can start to fix things, but as long as we decide to ignore it, and just go for whatever pushes the dopamine button, it really doesn't matter if it's a Democrat or Republican after the name. "Their dirty tricks to manipulate you are dirtier than our dirty tricks to manipulate you" is not enough to earn my vote. If enough people have to be convinced to vote for them rather than be scared into it because of the other side, then maybe the party name will mean something.

I said early on that the dilemma facing DeSantis was that he would likely need to be "not-Ron" and do "not-Ron" things to make a dent in the Trump echo chamber...

So he would have had to step outside of his comfort zone...he would have had to step outside of the persona that has made him successful in Florida...he would at least need to act more "Trump-like"...

The flip side of that is, this would have potentially made him unpopular with his base...they gravitate toward the fact that DeSantis has had a lot of success in Florida by not acting like Trump, and if he had acted like Trump (in an effort to drum up support from a broader spectrum of the R electorate, much of which remains infatuated with the Trump "sizzle", regardless of the actual "steak), it may have cost him is base...

The dilemma was very real, and frankly, I'm not sure which path was the right one...

I think, in hindsight, he may have gained more traction if he would have been a bit more controversial...saying things like "I'm going to send all of those weaponizing different branches of government against Trump to prison on day 1" (yeah, not likely...very much an empty promise like "lock her up") would have at least gained him some eyes in the media, and certainly would have gained favor with those voting for Trump now because they beleive he was wronged in 2020 (and has been wronged by government "authorities" ever since)...

Old May Banker said:

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The biggest reality is that the average American voter is dumber than a bucket of hair.

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Perhaps...but you still need their vote to get elected...and THAT is the catch-22...

You have to embrace them and give them a reason to pay attention to your candidate...you can't just tell them "you're dumb...look smart and vote this way"...

It doesn't work...

FireAg said:

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Ag with kids said:

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FireAg said:

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Don't blame folks on TexAgs for DeSantis's failure to get his message across to the masses…

His campaign failed because he was unable to communicate the virtues of his candidacy adequately…

---

He hasn't failed to get the message out.

Trump is just a bullhorn at full volume all the time. Drowns out quite a lot...

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Then by definition, he has FAILED to get his message out...

He didn't do nearly enough to get people to look his way in this day and age...

Now we can sit here and debate the vitrues of doing things the polite, old school way versus the boisterous, in-your-face Trump way, but virtue is meaningless...the goal is to win the primary...so he should have done more to grab the attention of voters in a manner that would help him win the primary...

Fact is, trump isn't nearly the bullhorn he once was...the media carry him because he's good ratings...like him or hate him...he brings really good ratings...

DeSantis needed to do things that would force the media to pay attention...he needed to do things that would boost media coverage ratings...

He chose not to...and as such, he didn't give himself a chance to win the R Primary this cycle...

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That's horse*****

You can get your message out AND have the bullhorn blowing at the same time.

DeSantis has done plenty, including the groundwork in Iowa - but the media wants to only cover Trump. And strangely not in a very negative way.

But, glad you're finally shaking your fake persona and embracing your full Trump self.

BTW, we didn't buy that you were just a concerned conservative that was just putting out polls...

aggiehawg said:

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Ag with kids said:

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FireAg said:

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Don't blame folks on TexAgs for DeSantis's failure to get his message across to the masses…

His campaign failed because he was unable to communicate the virtues of his candidacy adequately…

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He hasn't failed to get the message out.

Trump is just a bullhorn at full volume all the time. Drowns out quite a lot...

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DeSantis has been camped out in Iowa for months now, doing the retail politics that Iowans demand apparently.

Maybe the Iowa polls are wrong but it sure doesn't appear he is resonating with those voters. I don't know why.

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I agree the polls are strange considering the groundwork being done by DeSantis and complete lack of it by Trump.

But, then the Iowas caucus demands much more than just SAYING you support Trump. BigRob has detailed that it's much more of a hands on process, unlike our Texas primaries...

We'll see though.

FireAg said:

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I think he was banking on a "splash" win in Iowa that would give him momentum in other primaries...

But I think he needs to be witihin 10 points at most of Trump going into caucus day, which means if polling averages are to be believed, he needs to make up 23 points between now and Jan 15...

In that amount of time, that type of gap closure (23 points) would be unprecedented, let alone overcoming the full 33 point disadvantage he faces in Iowa...

I think the DeSantis camp has realized that this is going to be nearly impossible at this point, and the different firings and restructurings within his PAC and his direct campaign are a result of them realizing that time is running out, and they aren't where they expected (or at least hoped) to be...

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I'll say this...IF Trump loses in Iowa, he will start a crash that makes the Hindenburg look mild.

aggie93 said:

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Such a RINO

We have retired nearly 25% of Florida’s total debt since 2019 and Florida now has the lowest debt per capita in America.

FL debt per person: $661
US debt per person: ~$100,000 https://t.co/7AbBw5NYg5

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) December 27, 2023

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Yeah, but what has he done to get revenge?

NOTHING!!!

If DeSantis had done enough to change his place in the echo chamber, he would be competitive in polling...sorry you can't handle the obvious, but that's it in a nutshell...

And frankly, I don't give a damn what you think about my "motives"...I have tried only to engage in respectful discourse as to which candidate had a better chance at winning the R nomination, and the reasons for which that might be...

I said from the beginning that DeSantis folks should be finding ways to embrace Trump folks, not attempt to alienate them...and why? Because there are still significantly more Trump folks out there than DeSantis folks...

If lashing out at me for keeping things real and sticking to empirical data has frustrated you as you go through the stages of grief and become more accpeting of the eventual outcome that I have said from the beginning was the most likely, then you keep doing you...lash out and hopefully you sleep better...but it doesn't change the fact that I am not pro-Turmp and anti-DeSantis...I said from the beginning, and remain in the same posture today...I would vote for either of them next November, and though I believe that DeSantis is the stronger conservative candidate who thinks a lot like I do, I believe Trump has the popularity edge and a persona that folks will gravitate toward, moreso than DeSantis, and I felt like he would win the R nomination from the get-go...

aggie93 said:

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Such a RINO

We have retired nearly 25% of Florida’s total debt since 2019 and Florida now has the lowest debt per capita in America.

FL debt per person: $661
US debt per person: ~$100,000 https://t.co/7AbBw5NYg5

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) December 27, 2023

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Hell, at this point I would almost prefer we amend the FL constitution to allow unlimited terms for Governor. That way he could stay here running this state like a ****ing champ while Biden or Trump or Newsome or Haley ****s up the rest of the country.

Rural Florida loves Proven Warrior DeSantis!

FireAg said:

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If DeSantis had done enough to change his place in the echo chamber, he would be competitive in polling...sorry you can't handle the obvious, but that's it in a nutshell...

And frankly, I don't give a damn what you think about my "motives"...I have tried only to engage in respectful discourse as to which candidate had a better chance at winning the R nomination, and the reasons for which that might be...

I said from the beginning that DeSantis folks should be finding ways to embrace Trump folks, not attempt to alienate them...and why? Because there are still significantly more Trump folks out there than DeSantis folks...

If lashing out at me for keeping things real and sticking to empirical data has frustrated you as you go through the stages of grief and become more accpeting of the eventual outcome that I have said from the beginning was the most likely, then you keep doing you...lash out and hopefully you sleep better...but it doesn't change the fact that I am not pro-Turmp and anti-DeSantis...I said from the beginning, and remain in the same posture today...I would vote for either of them next November, and though I believe that DeSantis is the stronger conservative candidate who thinks a lot like I do, I believe Trump has the popularity edge and a persona that folks will gravitate toward, moreso than DeSantis, and I felt like he would win the R nomination from the get-go...

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We believe you. Really...we do.

FireAg said:

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I said early on that the dilemma facing DeSantis was that he would likely need to be "not-Ron" and do "not-Ron" things to make a dent in the Trump echo chamber...

So he would have had to step outside of his comfort zone...he would have had to step outside of the persona that has made him successful in Florida...he would at least need to act more "Trump-like"...

The flip side of that is, this would have potentially made him unpopular with his base...they gravitate toward the fact that DeSantis has had a lot of success in Florida by not acting like Trump, and if he had acted like Trump (in an effort to drum up support from a broader spectrum of the R electorate, much of which remains infatuated with the Trump "sizzle", regardless of the actual "steak), it may have cost him is base...

The dilemma was very real, and frankly, I'm not sure which path was the right one...

I think, in hindsight, he may have gained more traction if he would have been a bit more controversial...saying things like "I'm going to send all of those weaponizing different branches of government against Trump to prison on day 1" (yeah, not likely...very much an empty promise like "lock her up") would have at least gained him some eyes in the media, and certainly would have gained favor with those voting for Trump now because they beleive he was wronged in 2020 (and has been wronged by government "authorities" ever since)...

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The problem is that is a trap and a tightrope you can't walk. Vivek tried and now he has pulled all ads for Iowa and NH. If DeSantis wanted to be Trump's VP that may have worked I guess but fundamentally making this more about Trump only makes people want Trump more that care about that. More than that though there was not an honest conversation to be had as I pointed out. DeSantis came very close to what you are saying and they acted like he was working with Biden to throw Trump in jail. Why? The only goal was to take out DeSantis. If people wanted a showman or who can be controversial they will always pick Trump as well. It's like telling Republicans that if they only compromise on abortion they will win over pro choice voters. In the end you are trying to get someone who likes Coke to choose Diet Coke when they don't care about calories.

Great example of how the ultimate sin is simple, opposing Trump.

And with that snarky comment, I can see you are not interested in honest conversation...

Your way isn't going to happen, so you feel the need to lash out and look for someone to blame...

That's cool...like I said...you do you...

But you're not worth the bandiwdth at this point, so the ignore function will serve its purpose once again...

Perhaps you're right...I think there is a very real probablilty that it is an impossible tightrope to walk...

And with that in mind, I circle back to the notion that DeSantis may have been better off waiting until 2028 to launch his bid...

Hell, he might still be very successful in a 2028 run with Trump out of the picture at that point...but 2024 was just going to be too steep of a hill to climb with Trump still being seen as viable to many in the R electorate...

Sometimes it is worth it for the lessons we learn. I have 2 things that I hope come out of this election cycle:

1. We elect small government president (which means not Donald Trump) and we stop the policies that are destroying us
or
2. If we decide not to, that we learn our lesson of the dangers of embracing big government liberals and of running the government like a reality show, so that we don't do it again next time. That is a lesson we don't learn if the better option isn't available.

We are pretty dumb, so we may just end up with President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho anyways.

FireAg said:

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And with that snarky comment, I can see you are not interested in honest conversation...

Your way isn't going to happen, so you feel the need to lash out and look for someone to blame...

That's cool...like I said...you do you...

But you're not worth the bandiwdth at this point, so the ignore function will serve its purpose once again...

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As opposed to the grandmaster of Trump poll posting and then making up things that you know are full of crap about what DeSantis should have done.

I don't use the ignore function though, since I'm not a snowflake, so I'll continue to see your feigned concern over DeSantis going forward.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Look for more Melania in 2024.

A source tells Page Six that after Donald Trump scored a recent Supreme Court victory in his federal election subversion case, "Trump and his family are so secure that he will become president again that insiders at Mar-a-Lago say he's reached an agreement with [wife] Melania [Trump] to step up top-tier diplomatic appearances in 2024."

The Trumpworld source told us that after Melania recently appeared with fellow former first ladies at Rosalynn Carter's funeral, she is, "feeling more sure of herself as both her husband's representative and her own position as a diplomatic figure after her positive reception at the Carter funeral."

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Quote:

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Our source added, "Melania realizes it's her time to join the ranks of historic first ladies and leave her mark on history… She feels better prepared for her potential role the second time around."

The source added that Melania also feels she can devote more time to the role since her son with Trump, Barron, is now 17.

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LINK

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Maybe but for a woman that is looking to be more involved she certainly is scarce when it comes to her husband.

TRUMP’S WIFE IS NOT IN THE FAMILY CHRISTMAS PHOTO

But Gavin Newsom’s ExWife is… pic.twitter.com/c0s2RoPpa8

— 𝗦𝗵𝗼𝘄 𝗠𝗲 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗗𝗮𝘁𝗮 (@txsalth2o) December 27, 2023

Ag with kids said:

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FireAg said:

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If DeSantis had done enough to change his place in the echo chamber, he would be competitive in polling...sorry you can't handle the obvious, but that's it in a nutshell...

And frankly, I don't give a damn what you think about my "motives"...I have tried only to engage in respectful discourse as to which candidate had a better chance at winning the R nomination, and the reasons for which that might be...

I said from the beginning that DeSantis folks should be finding ways to embrace Trump folks, not attempt to alienate them...and why? Because there are still significantly more Trump folks out there than DeSantis folks...

If lashing out at me for keeping things real and sticking to empirical data has frustrated you as you go through the stages of grief and become more accpeting of the eventual outcome that I have said from the beginning was the most likely, then you keep doing you...lash out and hopefully you sleep better...but it doesn't change the fact that I am not pro-Turmp and anti-DeSantis...I said from the beginning, and remain in the same posture today...I would vote for either of them next November, and though I believe that DeSantis is the stronger conservative candidate who thinks a lot like I do, I believe Trump has the popularity edge and a persona that folks will gravitate toward, moreso than DeSantis, and I felt like he would win the R nomination from the get-go...

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We believe you. Really...we do.

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We should start a poll about it.

I agree, DeSantis poses a threat to all the other sides
in way that goes beyond the usual competition.
DeSantis is actually smart and effective and that causes fear.

Melania's Dad is on the left. Melania and her mother were tending to something else when this picture was taken.

aggiehawg said:

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Melania's Dad is on the left. Melania and her mother were tending to something else when this picture was taken.

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LOL. Aggie93's hot take that bash's Trump has all the stars yet is so simply rebuffed as a bad take and that post gets 0 stars. Easy to see the TDS in action.

texagbeliever said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Melania's Dad is on the left. Melania and her mother were tending to something else when this picture was taken.

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LOL. Aggie93's hot take that bash's Trump has all the stars yet is so simply rebuffed as a bad take and that post gets 0 stars. Easy to see the TDS in action.

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So they just took a family photo... without all the family? I'm not saying it's legit or not, but that seems like a pretty weak take. If my wife isn't going to be in the "family photo"... there is no family photo, and I don't think that is far off from most people.

However, if my wife is purposefully not going to be in a "family photo" to prove a point, she will absolutely be "tending to something else". So, no, not buying the line is not TDS, it's just not buying an easy to see through excuse. Or at least that is what it looks like.

Phatbob said:

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texagbeliever said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Melania's Dad is on the left. Melania and her mother were tending to something else when this picture was taken.

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LOL. Aggie93's hot take that bash's Trump has all the stars yet is so simply rebuffed as a bad take and that post gets 0 stars. Easy to see the TDS in action.

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So they just took a family photo... without all the family? I'm not saying it's legit or not, but that seems like a pretty weak take. If my wife isn't going to be in the "family photo"... there is no family photo, and I don't think that is far off from most people.

However, if my wife is purposefully not going to be in a "family photo" to prove a point, she will absolutely be "tending to something else". So, no, not buying the line is not TDS, it's just not buying an easy to see through excuse. Or at least that is what it looks like.

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You are trying way too hard. Why would Melania's father be in the family photo if this is a sign of Melania and Trump being on the fritz?

This took 5 seconds. I typed in " Melania Trump Christmas"
First link: Melania Trump Spends Christmas with ailing mother

Like I said, if you took a second to fact check it would raise the credibility.

Quote:

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A Trump spokesperson said Melania, 53, was tending to a family matter.

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LINK

aggie93 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Look for more Melania in 2024.

A source tells Page Six that after Donald Trump scored a recent Supreme Court victory in his federal election subversion case, "Trump and his family are so secure that he will become president again that insiders at Mar-a-Lago say he's reached an agreement with [wife] Melania [Trump] to step up top-tier diplomatic appearances in 2024."

The Trumpworld source told us that after Melania recently appeared with fellow former first ladies at Rosalynn Carter's funeral, she is, "feeling more sure of herself as both her husband's representative and her own position as a diplomatic figure after her positive reception at the Carter funeral."

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Quote:

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Our source added, "Melania realizes it's her time to join the ranks of historic first ladies and leave her mark on history… She feels better prepared for her potential role the second time around."

The source added that Melania also feels she can devote more time to the role since her son with Trump, Barron, is now 17.

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LINK

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Maybe but for a woman that is looking to be more involved she certainly is scarce when it comes to her husband.

TRUMP’S WIFE IS NOT IN THE FAMILY CHRISTMAS PHOTO

But Gavin Newsom’s ExWife is… pic.twitter.com/c0s2RoPpa8

— 𝗦𝗵𝗼𝘄 𝗠𝗲 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗗𝗮𝘁𝗮 (@txsalth2o) December 27, 2023

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I'm furthest from Trump's biggest fan, but I love seeing smiles on people like he has in that pic. Trump smiles all the time for pics, yes, but that's the "photo-op" smile that everyone puts up. This smile in this pic is genuine AF and full of pure joy.

Say what you want about the man, and I've said plenty, but there's no denying that he loves his kids and their families. Full. Stop.

Look, I am not saying it's true or not, but it obviously leaves room for speculation, and no, I am not one who believes everything because it's said once in an article. Given the lack of Melania everywhere else besides the family photo, it doesn't raise to the level of TDS to point out the piling evidence, which might as well be the Trumper version of "racist" at this point. Maybe it is circumstantial, maybe it's true, still has bad optics either way.

Phatbob said:

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Look, I am not saying it's true or not, but it obviously leaves room for speculation, and no, I am not one who believes everything because it's said once in an article. Given the lack of Melania everywhere else besides the family photo, it doesn't raise to the level of TDS to point out the piling evidence, which might as well be the Trumper version of "racist" at this point. Maybe it is circumstantial, maybe it's true, still has bad optics either way.

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Take your L like a man. It is obvious that the take is at best ignorant. At this point it is ridiculous. The bias of wanting every bad news about Trump to be true permeates through you guys. Not a surprise since you consume so much anti-Trump information and constantly one up each other on here.

You want Trump to be terrible because it would fit into your version of reality. Either continue staring at the cave wall or turn around and look for truth.

texagbeliever said:

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Phatbob said:

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Look, I am not saying it's true or not, but it obviously leaves room for speculation, and no, I am not one who believes everything because it's said once in an article. Given the lack of Melania everywhere else besides the family photo, it doesn't raise to the level of TDS to point out the piling evidence, which might as well be the Trumper version of "racist" at this point. Maybe it is circumstantial, maybe it's true, still has bad optics either way.

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Take your L like a man. It is obvious that the take is at best ignorant. At this point it is ridiculous. The bias of wanting every bad news about Trump to be true permeates through you guys. Not a surprise since you consume so much anti-Trump information and constantly one up each other on here.

You want Trump to be terrible because it would fit into your version of reality. Either continue staring at the cave wall or turn around and look for truth.

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There is no L to take. I don't actually care, that is it. My point is that you don't know either, but your immediate response is to defend at all costs and to toss around "TDS" when the 3rd wife of a multiple time adulterer is not hanging around said adulterer any more, even on Christmas. It's not a big stretch, and obviously, since he was elected since she was his 3rd wife, it's not a big deal to the public. It's just fun to watch pointing out the obvious turn into some attack on Trump that must be defended against.

Why is Melania's father in the picture and not by his ailing wife's side?

Some of his grandchildren are not in the Pic., the little girl that speaks Chinese is one of the missing.

Looks like just a gather of some of his family.

All I see his potential future candidates excluding Jr.

Bro, there are 2 links that explain why Melania wasn't there. You still refuse to accept them. Because of your feelings.

TRM said:

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Why is Melania's father in the picture and not by his ailing wife's side?

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Maybe he is always there and is getting a break to be by his other family. Perhaps Melania wanted him to have a more merry Christmas. Plenty of reasonable explanations.

Phatbob said:

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Look, I am not saying it's true or not, but it obviously leaves room for speculation, and no, I am not one who believes everything because it's said once in an article. Given the lack of Melania everywhere else besides the family photo, it doesn't raise to the level of TDS to point out the piling evidence, which might as well be the Trumper version of "racist" at this point. Maybe it is circumstantial, maybe it's true, still has bad optics either way.

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Whatever else Melania is, she has always been a very good mother to Barron. She would be with Barron for Christmas.