I have yet to see anything that indicates that it is over. There is a lot of wishing on a lot of peoples parts, but I just don't get that. I know a lot of people personally that have been Trump voters in the past, or are conservative and refused to vote for Trump, and all are in on DeSantis. I essentially know a couple of people who are still at the alter of Trump, but those are just a few in comparison. I know, those are just anecdotal, but at this point, I trust my personal experience more than polls. Polls are the only thing Trump has right now, and they are more and more just manipulated marketing material.

If voting actually matches polls, then I will admit it is over, but definitely not until then.

Phatbob said:

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I have yet to see anything that indicates that it is over. There is a lot of wishing on a lot of peoples parts, but I just don't get that. I know a lot of people personally that have been Trump voters in the past, or are conservative and refused to vote for Trump, and all are in on DeSantis. I essentially know a couple of people who are still at the alter of Trump, but those are just a few in comparison. I know, those are just anecdotal, but at this point, I trust my personal experience more than polls. Polls are the only thing Trump has right now, and they are more and more just manipulated marketing material.

If voting actually matches polls, then I will admit it is over, but definitely not until then.

---

Yep. I've never seen a disconnect like this before. DeSantis has so much momentum and energy on the ground. I know so many people that prefer him to Trump. He is just crushing interviews and he was out front on the Gaza situation. Trump's crowds are getting smaller and smaller, at least 1/3rd of that small venue 40 minutes from Boston was empty yesterday and Trump publicized it beforehand fairly heavily. Yet polls make it look like he is just losing ground.

Something is off one way or the other.

Confirmation bias.

Tibbers said:

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Confirmation bias.

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Not gonna deny that it is a possibility, but we live in an era of the Unreal 5 graphic engine, AI, and realistic bots. I trust what is put in front of me for a specific narrative even less now than ever. Forgive me if my "circle of trust" doesn't include an almost 80 year old reality show star.

Tibbers said:

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Confirmation bias.

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Maybe, I've still never seen anything like this in an election cycle and I have been following them since the '80s. It's very possible that Trump is rising in popularity but for some reason people don't want to go see him or send him money, it's just very odd.

People don't have much disposable income anymore. Tough to raise money grassroots style when the money is drying up. Plus, many already know what he's about. If you believe that people not showing up would be a signal of waning support, look no further than Biden and his 81 million votes. It's the same reason not debating isn't negatively affecting Trump. People are already sold.

Tibbers said:

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People don't have much disposable income anymore. Tough to raise money grassroots style when the money is drying up. Plus, many already know what he's about. If you believe that people not showing up would be a signal of waning support, look no further than Biden and his 81 million votes. It's the same reason not debating isn't negatively affecting Trump. People are already sold.

---

Again, not something I have seen evidence of. I haven't talked to anyone who wasn't on the Trump train before and is now, but I have talked to plenty who have voted for him, but would never again, and even the gung-ho Trumpers are not exactly as gung-ho. And again, all anecdotal, but not irrelevant.

Ask the people you've talked to if Trump was the nominee would they vote for him or vote Biden or Kennedy.

Tibbers said:

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People don't have much disposable income anymore. Tough to raise money grassroots style when the money is drying up. Plus, many already know what he's about. If you believe that people not showing up would be a signal of waning support, look no further than Biden and his 81 million votes. It's the same reason not debating isn't negatively affecting Trump. People are already sold.

---

Like I said that's possible. It would fly in the face of all conventional wisdom and history but it is possible.

I don't buy the "people don't have disposable income so they aren't donating to Trump" argument though. The people who tend to donate to campaigns always find a way to donate.

Not sure I buy that "people are already sold" and just don't feel the need to show up either. Trump's strength and appeal has always started with his events because of his entertainment personality. It's just weird that folks can't be bothered to show up to hear him yet they support him as much as ever.

It's possible though, polls certainly indicate that.

Phatbob said:

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Tibbers said:

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People don't have much disposable income anymore. Tough to raise money grassroots style when the money is drying up. Plus, many already know what he's about. If you believe that people not showing up would be a signal of waning support, look no further than Biden and his 81 million votes. It's the same reason not debating isn't negatively affecting Trump. People are already sold.

---

Again, not something I have seen evidence of. I haven't talked to anyone who wasn't on the Trump train before and is now, but I have talked to plenty who have voted for him, but would never again, and even the gung-ho Trumpers are not exactly as gung-ho. And again, all anecdotal, but not irrelevant.

---

The thing is, if it were just polls being lies, DeSantis would have his own out.

Tibbers said:

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Ask the people you've talked to if Trump was the nominee would they vote for him or vote Biden or Kennedy.

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Guarantee there are a ton of people who simply won't vote at all for President if those are the choices. Why do so many Trump supporters (and honestly not lumping you in with that group) seem to think that if a voter won't vote for Biden then they surely will vote for Trump?

It's not exaggeration to state that Trump has, and continues to, turn off a lot of voters so much that even if the other choice is just Biden they won't vote for either.

hmm..

discussing the biggest political issue which will effect all of our lives for years on a politics board.

why that's just a crazy idea!

Well then conservatives are ushering in our own demise. Meanwhile you have reasonable discourse on matters of dire importance like this, which make a ton of sense yet a certain aspect of this party just loves war. It's a very stratified party and needs to be carefully examined.

I reject the consensus that “winning” in Ukraine is a vital U.S. interest. It’s not. The real threat is the China-Russia alliance which we worsen every day by driving Russia further into China’s hands, yet no one is talking about it. Most of the GOP Establishment rails against… pic.twitter.com/SalOGAQJf2

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) October 24, 2023

Owen Shroyer is back on Twitter right here while he is a Speech Prisoner in Biden's America. Please share this video to keep America informed about this political prisoner. #FreeOwen
Support him here: https://t.co/VWuIUfGyoO pic.twitter.com/0XxcUMFm2D

— Political Prisoner Owen Shroyer (@OwenShroyer1776) October 23, 2023

Tell your friends who would rather not vote that this is what they are ushering in.

Trump is fine.

🚨 CLEANUP ON AISLE 45 🧹 🧽 🧼
pic.twitter.com/xWEVSKhjGS

— Christina Pushaw 🐊 🇺🇸 (@ChristinaPushaw) October 24, 2023

aggie93 said:

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Trump is fine.

🚨 CLEANUP ON AISLE 45 🧹 🧽 🧼
pic.twitter.com/xWEVSKhjGS

— Christina Pushaw 🐊 🇺🇸 (@ChristinaPushaw) October 24, 2023

---

Yikes. Unfortunately I think I already know what his Loyal Loomers will say to excuse all the Obama mentions.

Tibbers said:

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Owen Shroyer is back on Twitter right here while he is a Speech Prisoner in Biden's America. Please share this video to keep America informed about this political prisoner. #FreeOwen
Support him here: https://t.co/VWuIUfGyoO pic.twitter.com/0XxcUMFm2D

— Political Prisoner Owen Shroyer (@OwenShroyer1776) October 23, 2023

Tell your friends who would rather not vote that this is what they are ushering in.

---

I think the prosecution was complete crap but as I understand it he plead guilty to entering a restricted area and that is why he is going to jail. It wasn't for his speech. They certainly went after him for his speech but that isn't what he plead to.

It just sucks that they can charge people and harass them into making a plea deal vs spending insane amounts of time and money in legal fees.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.234903/gov.uscourts.dcd.234903.46.0.pdf

Read the charging document.

Tibbers said:

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https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.234903/gov.uscourts.dcd.234903.46.0.pdf

Read the charging document.

---

Shroyer pleaded guilty to one count of violating 18 U.S.C. 1752(a)(1). As explained herein,

a sentence of incarceration is appropriate in this case because Shroyer: (1) had an active order to
stay away from the U.S. Capitol and its grounds on January 6, 2021 due to a pending case for
disorderly conduct on those grounds; (2) stoked the fire of hundreds of thousands of his followers
with violent rhetoric and disinformation about the election leading up to January 6 and during a
march he helped lead to the restricted grounds, and (3) praised the actions of the rioters at the
Capitol after January 6 on his online streaming show.

Like I said, completely bogus prosecution but he plead guilty and the reason the charge stuck was because he had an active order to stay away from US Capitol grounds. I wish he would have fought it but he didn't. I understand why didn't fight it but he didn't. In the end they got him because he had the pending case for disorderly conduct prior to Jan 6. I just think that's relevant context and in the video you posted doesn't mention it.

Yeah good point. He didn't seem to state that he was told not to come back because of previous order. My apologies.

Thought it would be fair play to show the hard hitting issues that Trump is using to attack DeSantis on. Have to give him credit for going through thousands of hours of footage to look for awkward facial expressions or movements and amplify them yet never actually discuss pretty much anything relevant to policy.

The strongest attacks on DeSantis:
- He ate pudding
- He laughs
- He wears boots

The oppo file is truly empty.

No wonder he won re-election—a feat achieved by very few. https://t.co/g8NjFMeDDa

— Max (@MaxNordau) October 24, 2023

Tibbers said:

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I've already answered that question.

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That's a lot of words to avoid typing "Yes" or "No"...

I will infer from that what I will...

aggie93 said:

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Tibbers said:

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People don't have much disposable income anymore. Tough to raise money grassroots style when the money is drying up. Plus, many already know what he's about. If you believe that people not showing up would be a signal of waning support, look no further than Biden and his 81 million votes. It's the same reason not debating isn't negatively affecting Trump. People are already sold.

---

Like I said that's possible. It would fly in the face of all conventional wisdom and history but it is possible.

I don't buy the "people don't have disposable income so they aren't donating to Trump" argument though. The people who tend to donate to campaigns always find a way to donate.

Not sure I buy that "people are already sold" and just don't feel the need to show up either. Trump's strength and appeal has always started with his events because of his entertainment personality. It's just weird that folks can't be bothered to show up to hear him yet they support him as much as ever.

It's possible though, polls certainly indicate that.

---

If people don't have disposable income to donate to Trump's campaign, why are other people finding the money to donate to the other campaigns?

Never Back Down booked a 100 person venue for Ron DeSantis in NH, but it ended up with 600+ people showing up.

It was supposed to be inside.

— Sultan Santis 🐊🇺🇸 (@SultanSantis) October 24, 2023

The race isn't over until Iowa. DeSantis can be wiped out there or ride the wave to the nomination there. With caucus nature and his organization he can win on the 2nd ballot. He's still polling around 20% in IA. He also has ad buy set in IA from October to January reserved, so look for some movement in the next month if it takes hold.

Just as an aside, Trump wouldn't being moving campaign staffers there if they weren't worried.

Strong messaging here.

🔥 WOW — @RonDeSantis with an incredible message to young voters:

“It was the Democrats that were isolating you in your dorm rooms during COVID. It was Republicans like me in Florida who were liberating you from those COVID restrictions. We weren’t trying to force COVID shots on… pic.twitter.com/YYm02DTdLP

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) October 24, 2023

A man of principle!

Tibbers said:

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A man of principle!

---

I don't mind a little Vivek on this thread but you should start a new one for pure Vivek content. I know you have had a few in the past. Just posting an hour long video with no context other than he is talking to Alex Jones probably isn't ideal. Give some points about why it is compelling or what they talked about before asking folks to devote that much time if you want people to watch it.

His interview with Young Turks was hilarious. Within 2 minutes he changed opinions on an issue.

Vivek will talk with anyone. This seems to be the thread to discuss potential presidential candidates. The conversation talks about everything from old world order to climate change to, I mean, it runs the gamut. The beauty is that Vivek holds true to free speech even to folks that may seem volatile. It's incredible what candor and respect will due. It relates to all candidates in knowing more about everyone. Or would you rather this just be the pro Desantis thread. Seems to be the case currently. Change the thread title if you like.

DP

UAS Ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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Tibbers said:

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People don't have much disposable income anymore. Tough to raise money grassroots style when the money is drying up. Plus, many already know what he's about. If you believe that people not showing up would be a signal of waning support, look no further than Biden and his 81 million votes. It's the same reason not debating isn't negatively affecting Trump. People are already sold.

---

Like I said that's possible. It would fly in the face of all conventional wisdom and history but it is possible.

I don't buy the "people don't have disposable income so they aren't donating to Trump" argument though. The people who tend to donate to campaigns always find a way to donate.

Not sure I buy that "people are already sold" and just don't feel the need to show up either. Trump's strength and appeal has always started with his events because of his entertainment personality. It's just weird that folks can't be bothered to show up to hear him yet they support him as much as ever.

It's possible though, polls certainly indicate that.

---

If people don't have disposable income to donate to Trump's campaign, why are other people finding the money to donate to the other campaigns?

---

Grassroots is different from super PACs. It's like you're not paying attention. And speaking of not paying attention, I already said I would vote R no matter who the candidate was which sparked my initial question. What does UAS stand for? Uninformed Annoyance Specialist?

Tibbers said:

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UAS Ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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Tibbers said:

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People don't have much disposable income anymore. Tough to raise money grassroots style when the money is drying up. Plus, many already know what he's about. If you believe that people not showing up would be a signal of waning support, look no further than Biden and his 81 million votes. It's the same reason not debating isn't negatively affecting Trump. People are already sold.

---

Like I said that's possible. It would fly in the face of all conventional wisdom and history but it is possible.

I don't buy the "people don't have disposable income so they aren't donating to Trump" argument though. The people who tend to donate to campaigns always find a way to donate.

Not sure I buy that "people are already sold" and just don't feel the need to show up either. Trump's strength and appeal has always started with his events because of his entertainment personality. It's just weird that folks can't be bothered to show up to hear him yet they support him as much as ever.

It's possible though, polls certainly indicate that.

---

If people don't have disposable income to donate to Trump's campaign, why are other people finding the money to donate to the other campaigns?

---

Grassroots is different from super PACs. It's like you're not paying attention. And speaking of not paying attention, I already said I would vote R no matter who the candidate was which sparked my initial question. What does UAS stand for? Uninformed Annoyance Specialist?

---

People are still making lots of small donations they just aren't making them to Trump in anything like the numbers they have in the past. DeSantis has been doing just fine with small donors and has a lot of folks giving every month.

The reality is though the big donors are what pay the bills. The cost of getting small donors is high compared to getting big donors. Super PACs really run the show. For Dems it's the Dark Money which is ironic because they act like it is the GOP when in truth the Dem Party is run by a handful of Billionaires like Zuck who fund the voting operations. Dems figured out it isn't about issues it's about votes and a lot of Republicans (especially Trump) don't understand how that works.

🔥 WOW — @RonDeSantis with an incredible message to young voters:

“It was the Democrats that were isolating you in your dorm rooms during COVID. It was Republicans like me in Florida who were liberating you from those COVID restrictions. We weren’t trying to force COVID shots on… pic.twitter.com/YYm02DTdLP

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) October 24, 2023

1. Conservatives could have THIS for 8 years

or

2. they could have Trump on trial and being testified against by all his staffers for the next two years and total leftist control over our lives.

only a "conservative" could be so insane to pick choice two.