OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Ron DeSantis*** thread...

438,769 Views | 9101 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by BD88
aggie93
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AG
This is some serious 5D Chess stuff.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Rapier108
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aggie93 said:

This is some serious 5D Chess stuff.


He and MAGA believe they are 80% of the voters in this country.

Remember, Trump believes he won numerous states in 2020 that weren't even close. Some of MAGA even claim he won California, if it wasn't for Dominion.

This is thermonuclear weapons grade stupid, but all it does is setup the excuse MAGA will use if Trump is the nominee and gets obliterated in the general. They'll claim yet again it was stolen and begin preparing for Trump 2028.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
aggie93
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Rapier108 said:

aggie93 said:

This is some serious 5D Chess stuff.


He and MAGA believe they are 80% of the voters in this country.

Remember, Trump believes he won numerous states in 2020 that weren't even close. Some of MAGA even claim he won California, if it wasn't for Dominion.

This is thermonuclear weapons grade stupid, but all it does is setup the excuse MAGA will use if Trump is the nominee and gets obliterated in the general. They'll claim yet again it was stolen and begin preparing for Trump 2028.
I just don't understand why Trump supporters keep asking us "ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR TRUMP??!!!!?! ARE YA? ARE YA?"

Then Trump says stuff like this. I mean I will vote for the guy but damn, he is practically screaming "I AM GOING TO LOSE AND LOSE HUUUUUUUGGGGGE!" and a lot of folks can't get enough of it or they just bend in a pretzel to justify it.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Rapier108
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Quote:

I just don't understand why Trump supporters keep asking us "ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR TRUMP??!!!!?! ARE YA? ARE YA?"
It is nothing but the gotcha game with them at this point, which is why I won't even respond to it. I'm not going to give those kind of antics any response, because they will just ask it again the next day.

They are wanting someone to say they won't vote for Trump, because they need to have DeSantis supporters who won't vote for Trump so they can blame DeSantis for the loss they know will happen if Trump is the nominee. Never mind the only DeSantis supporters here who won't vote for Trump, with one exception, never voted for Trump in 2016 or 2020. Of course, we have several Trump supporters (some of whom I'm certain just some here to stir the pot) that have said they will only vote Trump, or write in his name if he isn't the nominee.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Tibbers
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Loomer is a loon. I only say that because I know several people in my life who have said they'd rather not vote if trump is the nominee. I worry when folks who I admire and trust say that. It's also why I really hope Vivek is the guy but if you look at the threads with Vivek here, there are some who wouldn't vote for him because he's not a Christian. It's an odd party, the Republican Party. I always thought the progressives/dems were the stratified group, but it's quite the opposite. Worrisome when it comes to the presidency here.
Tibbers
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You have to see the whole speech there. What he's saying is last election we had 70+ million vote for Trump. He's making a case for voter fraud that happened in 2020. He's not saying don't vote, he's saying, sign up to be a poll watcher and make sure things are done on the up and up, especially in places like Harris county here in Texas.
BigRobSA
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aggie93 said:

This is some serious 5D Chess stuff.





What a ****ing buffoon.
BigRobSA
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Tibbers said:



Like swatting flies. My hope is whomever gets the primary nod will gain full support. Will you Desantis hopefuls get behind Trump if he is the winner? Would love to hear your answers.

That doesn't make my statement any less true. Not many people there, regardless of your claim swatting flies.


And, no, I won't be voting for Trump. I don't vote for liberals...which puts Ramascammy off the list, too. Let him be a governor or state rep first, to build a conservative record. I'm not a simpleton, so it takes more than him saying the right things to earn my vote.
"The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution was never designed to restrain the people. It was designed to restrain the government."
aggie93
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Tibbers said:

You have to see the whole speech there. What he's saying is last election we had 70+ million vote for Trump. He's making a case for voter fraud that happened in 2020. He's not saying don't vote, he's saying, sign up to be a poll watcher and make sure things are done on the up and up, especially in places like Harris county here in Texas.
I understand that isn't what he meant and there was larger context.

That doesn't change the idiocy of the statement. Trump still just says so many stupid things. Thus he can make an otherwise decent speech about his 10 seconds of brain fart over and over again. I'd rather not have to deal with that crap anymore. I'm just tired of excusing away idiocy, Trump has worn me out.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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Tibbers said:

Loomer is a loon. I only say that because I know several people in my life who have said they'd rather not vote if trump is the nominee. I worry when folks who I admire and trust say that. It's also why I really hope Vivek is the guy but if you look at the threads with Vivek here, there are some who wouldn't vote for him because he's not a Christian. It's an odd party, the Republican Party. I always thought the progressives/dems were the stratified group, but it's quite the opposite. Worrisome when it comes to the presidency here.
The reality is that in a system like ours the GOP and the Dems are coalitions. In a Parliamentary system you would just have a lot more parties and then they team up to form a government and switch sides on the margins all the time. It's very hard for any single party to get a majority.

Thus you will end up with people in your party you don't like much but you just don't hate them as much as the other Party. That's why you are better off focusing on policy and record first over personality for good or ill. The more you look into politicians and much less their supporters it rarely ends up a happy tale.

The issue with Loomer isn't that she is a loon. The issue is Trump knows she is a loon yet he still hangs out with her. Thus he lets her represent him because he likes her fierce loyalty and attack dog style and doesn't care she is a loon. It's incredibly short sighted and is part of why he has never been able to get above around 44% popularity even at his peak (which is long gone and won't be returning).

I can also say that while there may be a couple of folks who wouldn't vote for Vivek over religion that's a really small number. I would bet there are just as many that won't vote for DeSantis because he is a devout Catholic just from a different angle. It's kind of like saying people didn't vote for Romney because he was Mormon. I mean, sure, there are some people that might have felt that way but the overwhelming majority disliked him because of his policy and actions not his religious preference.

I do think Vivek is running out of steam in this race but he can still do something with it if he is smart. He could run for Senate in Ohio. He could do a number of other things. He's a young guy with talent that needs seasoning and to use this as a learning experience. I hope he does. I just don't see a path for him to win the prize though and he is likely to decline further. I think it was a good short term idea to buddy up to Trump but long term it leaves him kind of lost, that's where he is now. I hope he doesn't decide to go down in flames and make more enemies. He's burning a lot of cash too but he has a lot to burn.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Tibbers
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Long way to go. Once the numbers dwindle it'll be a lot closer than it seems. I think the important thing is getting right policy moving forward so I agree with you on that. Vivek's policy ideas need to be embraced to get us back on the right track. I could care less who it is as long as the policy ideas win the day. Again, the right path forward is to elect folks who represent the ideals of the people and not the ideas of big money supporters who care more for their interests than the interests of the masses. That's my key takeaway at least. We have to break the cycle even if it means rough days in the short term. This is a long term vision. As the saying goes, short term pain for long term gain. I applaud you for your steadfast dedication in your own regard. We just need to come together and win the day but policy for Americans first needs to ring true across the broad spectrum of conservative minded folk like you and I. We stay on the path we are on and it's a foregone conclusion where we are headed.

With that, I highly recommend you read the book The Illusion of Division by Monica Harris.
Tibbers
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aggie93 said:

Tibbers said:

You have to see the whole speech there. What he's saying is last election we had 70+ million vote for Trump. He's making a case for voter fraud that happened in 2020. He's not saying don't vote, he's saying, sign up to be a poll watcher and make sure things are done on the up and up, especially in places like Harris county here in Texas.
I understand that isn't what he meant and there was larger context.

That doesn't change the idiocy of the statement. Trump still just says so many stupid things. Thus he can make an otherwise decent speech about his 10 seconds of brain fart over and over again. I'd rather not have to deal with that crap anymore. I'm just tired of excusing away idiocy, Trump has worn me out.


Lots of people seemingly say stupid things when taken out of context. It's disingenuous to even have the argument when the context isn't taken into account.
UAS Ag
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aggie93 said:

Can you feel the excitement?



UAS Ag
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Tibbers said:



Like swatting flies. My hope is whomever gets the primary nod will gain full support. Will you Desantis hopefuls get behind Trump if he is the winner? Would love to hear your answers.
Same question goes back to you. Will you Vivek/Trump supporters get behind DeSantis if he is the winner? Would love to hear your answers...
Pizza
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Somewhat relevant...apparently there was a movie called Trump vs. The Illuminati?

Anyone who chooses to ride a bicycle in the street is a threat to themselves, and others. If a vehicle strikes you accidentally, YOU are at fault; and the laws of physics supercede all else when you're in the path of a 2 ton killing machine. Know your place, stay off the road.
aggie93
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AG
Tibbers said:

aggie93 said:

Tibbers said:

You have to see the whole speech there. What he's saying is last election we had 70+ million vote for Trump. He's making a case for voter fraud that happened in 2020. He's not saying don't vote, he's saying, sign up to be a poll watcher and make sure things are done on the up and up, especially in places like Harris county here in Texas.
I understand that isn't what he meant and there was larger context.

That doesn't change the idiocy of the statement. Trump still just says so many stupid things. Thus he can make an otherwise decent speech about his 10 seconds of brain fart over and over again. I'd rather not have to deal with that crap anymore. I'm just tired of excusing away idiocy, Trump has worn me out.


Lots of people seemingly say stupid things when taken out of context. It's disingenuous to even have the argument when the context isn't taken into account.


He still said it though and in a way meant it. He just is a stream of consciousness speaker and that's going to always land him in trouble. It greatly impacts his ability to be effective.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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Tibbers said:

Long way to go. Once the numbers dwindle it'll be a lot closer than it seems. I think the important thing is getting right policy moving forward so I agree with you on that. Vivek's policy ideas need to be embraced to get us back on the right track. I could care less who it is as long as the policy ideas win the day. Again, the right path forward is to elect folks who represent the ideals of the people and not the ideas of big money supporters who care more for their interests than the interests of the masses. That's my key takeaway at least. We have to break the cycle even if it means rough days in the short term. This is a long term vision. As the saying goes, short term pain for long term gain. I applaud you for your steadfast dedication in your own regard. We just need to come together and win the day but policy for Americans first needs to ring true across the broad spectrum of conservative minded folk like you and I. We stay on the path we are on and it's a foregone conclusion where we are headed.

With that, I highly recommend you read the book The Illusion of Division by Monica Harris.


Definitely agree anything can happen. I just don't see a path for Vivek. He would have needed to be damn near perfect and he hasn't been. He has a bright future if he's smart about how he handles the next few months though.

Experience matters to too many voters. I admit I could be wrong but I think Vivek appeal is just too limited for now.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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AG
Trump is fine. In fact he probably just went up another 5 points in another poll. People love this level of clarity and leadership.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
J. Walter Weatherman
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aggie93 said:

Trump is fine. In fact he probably just went up another 5 points in another poll. People love this level of clarity and leadership.





Lol - honestly a pretty good strategy. Since he's too scared to debate and only talks to his hardcore base at rallies and on truth social most people haven't really seen how much he's lost his mind. Might as well just keep amplifying it in the hopes that as more people start to pay attention they'll realize what a terrible option he'd be for '24.
Tibbers
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I've already answered that question.
Tibbers
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aggie93 said:

Tibbers said:

Long way to go. Once the numbers dwindle it'll be a lot closer than it seems. I think the important thing is getting right policy moving forward so I agree with you on that. Vivek's policy ideas need to be embraced to get us back on the right track. I could care less who it is as long as the policy ideas win the day. Again, the right path forward is to elect folks who represent the ideals of the people and not the ideas of big money supporters who care more for their interests than the interests of the masses. That's my key takeaway at least. We have to break the cycle even if it means rough days in the short term. This is a long term vision. As the saying goes, short term pain for long term gain. I applaud you for your steadfast dedication in your own regard. We just need to come together and win the day but policy for Americans first needs to ring true across the broad spectrum of conservative minded folk like you and I. We stay on the path we are on and it's a foregone conclusion where we are headed.

With that, I highly recommend you read the book The Illusion of Division by Monica Harris.


Definitely agree anything can happen. I just don't see a path for Vivek. He would have needed to be damn near perfect and he hasn't been. He has a bright future if he's smart about how he handles the next few months though.

Experience matters to too many voters. I admit I could be wrong but I think Vivek appeal is just too limited for now.


Experience doesn't matter to voters. 2016 proved that. Being an outsider matters to voters.
TRM
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AG
You don't think it'll matter now with all the military activity in the Middle East?
aggie93
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AG
Tibbers said:

aggie93 said:

Tibbers said:

Long way to go. Once the numbers dwindle it'll be a lot closer than it seems. I think the important thing is getting right policy moving forward so I agree with you on that. Vivek's policy ideas need to be embraced to get us back on the right track. I could care less who it is as long as the policy ideas win the day. Again, the right path forward is to elect folks who represent the ideals of the people and not the ideas of big money supporters who care more for their interests than the interests of the masses. That's my key takeaway at least. We have to break the cycle even if it means rough days in the short term. This is a long term vision. As the saying goes, short term pain for long term gain. I applaud you for your steadfast dedication in your own regard. We just need to come together and win the day but policy for Americans first needs to ring true across the broad spectrum of conservative minded folk like you and I. We stay on the path we are on and it's a foregone conclusion where we are headed.

With that, I highly recommend you read the book The Illusion of Division by Monica Harris.


Definitely agree anything can happen. I just don't see a path for Vivek. He would have needed to be damn near perfect and he hasn't been. He has a bright future if he's smart about how he handles the next few months though.

Experience matters to too many voters. I admit I could be wrong but I think Vivek appeal is just too limited for now.


Experience doesn't matter to voters. 2016 proved that. Being an outsider matters to voters.
Trump had a huge amount of experience including experience in politics and had run for President 16 years before. He just hadn't ever been elected to anything.

Vivek did a great job investing and selling Pharma companies. He hadn't even voted until recently.

These are not the same.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Tibbers
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TRM said:

You don't think it'll matter now with all the military activity in the Middle East?


Well considering the world was pretty peaceful under Trump, I'd say experience in government isn't as important as being an outsider. There are better ways to a peaceful world than the Nikki Haleys of the world and their ideology. Not saying Desantis is that way, but just saying that ideology is very important as well. Blood for money is not a good trade and America can still be strong on the world stage without engaging in war as Trump showed.
aggie93
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AG
This post would make a lot more sense if Trump hadn't enthusiastically endorsed Romney for Senate in the Primary, right after he announced, to clear the field for him in Utah in 2018. Yet Trump supporters think this is just amazing. I mean you could argue that Trump supporting Romney originally is one of the main reasons he won as it gave Romney bonafides with MAGA (he had all the RINO vote). It's like these folks all have amnesia.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
LMCane
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I'm old enough to remember when Trumpers were claiming there were ZERO crimes committed in Georgia. That's at least 5 Trump defendants pleading guilty to actual crimes. They will all be testifying against Trump.

Jenna Ellis, the right-wing attorney who worked on the Trump 2020 campaign, pleaded guilty to a criminal charge in the Georgia election interference case.

Ellis is the latest co-defendant of former President Donald Trump to take a deal, joining Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro.

Jenna Ellis, the right-wing attorney who worked on the Trump 2020 campaign, pleaded guilty Tuesday to a criminal charge in the Georgia election interference case.

Ellis is the latest co-defendant of former President Donald Trump to take a deal with prosecutors, joining Sidney Powell and two others.

The slew of recent plea deals in Atlanta District Attorney Fani Willis' racketeering case signal a growing threat to Trump, who is fighting criminal charges in four separate cases as he runs for president in 2024.

Ellis, 38, pleaded guilty in Fulton County Superior Court to one count of aiding and abetting false statements and writings. The charge related to false claims of voter fraud that were made to members of the Georgia Senate at a hearing in early December 2020.

In a tearful statement before Judge Scott McAfee, Ellis expressed regret for her actions in the wake of Trump's loss to President Joe Biden in the 2020 election.

"As an attorney who is also a Christian, I take my responsibilities as a lawyer very seriously and I endeavor to be a person of sound moral and ethical character in all of my dealings," Ellis said.

"I believed that challenging the results on behalf of President Trump should be pursued in a just and legal way," she said, but "I failed to do my due diligence."

Instead, she said she relied on information that was provided to her by other lawyers "with many more years of experience."

"If I knew then what I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges," she said.

"I look back on this whole experience with deep remorse."
TRM
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AG
It was relatively peaceful BEFORE Trump came to office.
LMCane
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

aggie93 said:

Trump is fine. In fact he probably just went up another 5 points in another poll. People love this level of clarity and leadership.





Lol - honestly a pretty good strategy. Since he's too scared to debate and only talks to his hardcore base at rallies and on truth social most people haven't really seen how much he's lost his mind. Might as well just keep amplifying it in the hopes that as more people start to pay attention they'll realize what a terrible option he'd be for '24.
I love where Trump says LITERALLY "Don't Vote!"

"we have enough votes"

because nothing overcomes leftist attempts to steal an election more than NOT VOTING.
FL_Ag1998
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AG
aggie93 said:

This post would make a lot more sense if Trump hadn't enthusiastically endorsed Romney for Senate in the Primary, right after he announced, to clear the field for him in Utah in 2018. Yet Trump supporters think this is just amazing. I mean you could argue that Trump supporting Romney originally is one of the main reasons he won as it gave Romney bonafides with MAGA (he had all the RINO vote). It's like these folks all have amnesia.





Now that's the type of mature communication skills I want from the person leading this country into the future that my son is going to inherit. Nothing but class and intellect, that Trump!
aggie93
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AG
Great ad here, his only problem is that even with 2 minutes he can just scratch the surface on his accomplishments.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
GeorgiAg
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AG
How can anyone not like this guy more than Trump?

No Spin Ag
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GeorgiAg said:

How can anyone not like this guy more than Trump?




He nailed it and is sounding more polished.

And thanks to whoever supported RFK, now Trump has one more person in RFK to lose conservative votes to.

DeSantis '24
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
aggie93
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AG
GeorgiAg said:

How can anyone not like this guy more than Trump?


Nostalgia for what Trump did up until 2019 and hatred for what Biden has done since he took office. A lot of folks just have trouble letting go or they feel a deep loyalty to Trump because of how he has been treated and they reflexively take any attack against him as joining with the Left. The irony of course if Trump is openly collaborating with the MSM to take down DeSantis because both of them want Trump to be the GOP Nominee.

There is no rational way you can look at Trump speaking today and then look at DeSantis though and think that Trump is the wiser choice to lead. It's honestly getting sad because Trump is going to go down in flames, it's just a matter of when. Could be next November. Could be after he wins the nomination. Could be in Iowa. Could be tomorrow. It's going to happen though, you can only hide for so long. I mean yesterday I don't think the voting comment was even as bad as confusing Orban being the Leader of Hungary and not Turkey. Trump never did stuff like that before, the computer just isn't as fast as it used to be and it is getting worse quickly.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
LMCane
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80 year old Biden: "he's a dementia patient!!"

77 year old Trump (who would be 83 years old if elected): "he's as sharp as he was in 1956!!"

Fumbling somewhat, Trump continued, "We did nothing wrong. This is all Biden, indictments and impeachments and this is all about Biden, he can't do anything right. The only thing they know how to do is cheat in elections and election fraud. This is all by himself."

"All of these indictments that you see. I was never indicted. Practically never heard the word. It wasn't a word that registered," Trump concluded.

More Clown Show from Trump

nortex97
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AG
To me this is like the ukraine (Biden proxy) war fan thread. This is basically over but there are some who want to argue about it, and keep it bumped up because neither side wants to admit it's over.

What sort of event is even envisioned by those who think it will shift toward DeSantis before super Tuesday to make it relevant again?

Myself, full disclosure, I expect to see democrats keep Trump in the news via silliness (just picking a word to avoid profanity) in kangaroo courts through the big primaries, making sure his numbers stay high there. I've certainly seen zero indications he is willing to step aside/negotiate out of any of this.
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