Yes, yes, we've seen your Kickstarter candidate do interviews, but we have 0 evidence he can do anything remotely like what he says. You keep pointing to anything DeSantis actually does accomplish as evidence of being "establishment" so I guess you see any proof of concept as a bad thing, but we've seen this kind of thing before and know there is a 49% chance it is a scam, and 50% chance it is just great marketing for a middle of the road product that is nothing new. I'll let you do the math on whether it's likely it's all on the level.

Did you vote for trump in 2016?

I guess founding multi billion dollar companies does nothing for ya. Trust no one says the Ronbros. Tough way to live. While Desantis shuns NBC because they don't play nice, Trump (during his presidency) and Vivek take on all comers. If that doesn't tell you about what kind of people they are, then frankly, I don't know what to tell you.

Tibbers said:

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Did you vote for trump in 2016?

I guess founding multi billion dollar companies does nothing for ya. Trust no one says the Ronbros. Tough way to live. While Desantis shuns NBC because they don't play nice, Trump (during his presidency) and Vivek take on all comers. If that doesn't tell you about what kind of people they are, then frankly, I don't know what to tell you.

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This isn't a decision on getting a new brand of soda, this is the freaking presidency. We are stuck with the ramifications of this decision for generations. You can mock not jumping on board a fast talker with no street cred if you want, but we have plenty of those in the world. We have a lot fewer real deals. Maybe he is a real deal, but the odds are against it, and the consequences of getting it wrong are too big to bet on a low percentage solution. Put some skins on the wall, then come back to us.

What changed in 2020? Why are the odds against it? Feelings? What skins matter to you? Creating multi billion dollar companies aren't skins on the wall? Getting life saving drugs approved through FDA aren't skins on the wall? Setting up anti ESG hedge funds aren't skins on the wall? Just curious on your reasoning because Vivek is the most libertarian candidate we've had in some time. If no one is perfect, then let principle be your guide.

Tibbers said:

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What changed in 2020? Why are the odds against it? Feelings?

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Dude, I don't buy into marketing. The more something is marketted to me, the more I question why it has to be. Right now Vivek is all marketing. There isn't even a floor model to kick the tires on. Marketing is easy, all it takes is some focus groups and some smart talkers. You can sell the concept of cold fusion all day, but producing real world results is a lot harder. Your boy has to prove something first, and he hasn't done that yet.

So what would it take for him to prove that to you? What difference is there from running a company to running a state?

We have really hit peak insanity when the one supporter of guy no one heard of before 4 months ago

after spending 20 million dollars of his own Big Pharma payouts

in 6th or 7th place nationally

is trolling the most conservative Governor with the largest number of conservative victories in a generation.

if you want to discuss Ramaswamy- START YOUR OWN THREAD.

The title of this one is "Trump versus DeSantis"

stop derailing.

Tibbers said:

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So what would it take for him to prove that to you? What difference is there from running a company to running a state?

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STOP THREAD DERAILING

as that is all you have done the last few days.

Tibbers said:

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What changed in 2020? Why are the odds against it? Feelings? What skins matter to you? Creating multi billion dollar companies aren't skins on the wall? Getting life saving drugs approved through FDA aren't skins on the wall? Setting up anti ESG hedge funds aren't skins on the wall? Just curious on your reasoning because Vivek is the most libertarian candidate we've had in some time. If no one is perfect, then let principle be your guide.

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You keep adding stuff, so I have more to respond to. Government is so different it doesn't even run on the same set of economic principles. No, getting some drugs approved is not the same as changing policy. Setting up hedge funds is not the same as winning against an entire system that is set up for self preservation. (I can't believe that is even something that has to be said at this point). No, I do not think Vivek is the most libertarian candidate, and anyone who thinks he is has not been listening to the details of what he has been saying. RFK Jr as VP? not exactly libertarian.

Phatbob said:

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Tibbers said:

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What changed in 2020? Why are the odds against it? Feelings? What skins matter to you? Creating multi billion dollar companies aren't skins on the wall? Getting life saving drugs approved through FDA aren't skins on the wall? Setting up anti ESG hedge funds aren't skins on the wall? Just curious on your reasoning because Vivek is the most libertarian candidate we've had in some time. If no one is perfect, then let principle be your guide.

---

You keep adding stuff, so I have more to respond to. Government is so different it doesn't even run on the same set of economic principles. No, getting some drugs approved is not the same as changing policy. Setting up hedge funds is not the same as winning against an entire system that is set up for self preservation. (I can't believe that is even something that has to be said at this point). No, I do not think Vivek is the most libertarian candidate, and anyone who thinks he is has not been listening to the details of what he has been saying. RFK Jr as VP? not exactly libertarian.

---

Are you kidding me? He's the only talking about limiting federal government at a 75% clip. He's talking about completely removing entire departments. How is that not akin to libertarianism?

Tibbers said:

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https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/269/BillText/er/PDF

The law goes far beyond that and you know it. I would very much like to move away from dark money, super PACs and the strings attached. I look at this piece of legislation as exhibit A. as to what expect going forward with Desantis. An outsider seems to be the only way forward to reverse the trend of politics as you see it. Forgive me for not wanting more of the status quo considering where that has taken us so far.

So good for Desantis playing ball in the way we have seen in the past. I appreciate him showing Republicans who he actually is, a political mercenary beholden to the almighty campaign dollar. You seem to think that's ok. Well, best of luck to your candidate if you feel that's a winning strategy.

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You're either a liar or slow. Read the link you posted, dude. It literally talks about all the things you can't do on SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY IN ORDER TO INTIMIDATE THEM. I never thought I'd see someone get upset I about outlawing jackasses trying to intimidate someone on their own damn property.

If this is the best you got, you lose.

Tibbers said:

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Phatbob said:

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Tibbers said:

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What changed in 2020? Why are the odds against it? Feelings? What skins matter to you? Creating multi billion dollar companies aren't skins on the wall? Getting life saving drugs approved through FDA aren't skins on the wall? Setting up anti ESG hedge funds aren't skins on the wall? Just curious on your reasoning because Vivek is the most libertarian candidate we've had in some time. If no one is perfect, then let principle be your guide.

---

You keep adding stuff, so I have more to respond to. Government is so different it doesn't even run on the same set of economic principles. No, getting some drugs approved is not the same as changing policy. Setting up hedge funds is not the same as winning against an entire system that is set up for self preservation. (I can't believe that is even something that has to be said at this point). No, I do not think Vivek is the most libertarian candidate, and anyone who thinks he is has not been listening to the details of what he has been saying. RFK Jr as VP? not exactly libertarian.

---

Are you kidding me? He's the only talking about limiting federal government at a 75% clip. He's talking about completely removing entire departments. How is that not akin to libertarianism?

---

In one way, it is. Libertarian as a party, maybe. It's all concepts without implementation steps, but there is the same problem the Trumpers have with 2025... what happens when the dog catches the car... then what? You can't implement a damn thing without a specific plan, and even that is almost impossible. So that plan had better be more than some pretty words or strong feelings, because then the 1 chance you get is lost. It's too important and frankly too difficult of a task for meandering on the job to figure out the basics.

aggie93 said:

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Tibbers said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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Tibbers said:

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Same old attacks from the same posters. Awfully suspect that they're using highly produced deepfake videos. My guess is they're on the payroll for the Ramaswamy campaign.

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Lol, pretty funny considering it's three of the same posters here again haha. Keep it up Desantis dogs. Do work!

Would Desantis ever take on a challenge like this?

https://www.youtube.com/live/t6Kj_73K5ps?si=KFEDvEUN0-B0_VY_

Or would he rather further dissolve our first amendment rights like the bill he signed in 2019? Not very conservative to me.

https://www.flgov.com/2023/04/28/governor-ron-desantis-signs-enhanced-anti-antisemitism-and-anti-bds-legislation-in-israel/

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DeSantis took on Fauci and Disney not random internet guy. He's got a list of accomplishments a mile long. What exactly has Vivek actually done besides do some smart investing in Pharma? Give a few good interviews?

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I seem to recall Vivek wanting FL to get bent over by Disney.

We're pragmatists here, the difference between Vivek and Desantis on stated policy is practically nil, the main difference is Vivek is a more dynamic speaker. That's great, but what is more rare than a dynamic speaker is someone who is competent at actually achieving those things in actual real game situations.

It's interesting that, on a national scale, Trump is polling significantly better than DeSantis now when they are put head-to-head with Biden...




What concerns me is that this might mean that no one with an R next to their name is going to be able to beat Biden, but between Trump and DeSantis, currently, Trump has a better chance...

Again, the standard caveat applies...assuming the election process is legal and fair...

Tibbers said:

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And he also bent the knee to minimize the first amendment at the behest of the ADL. Not a conservative move.

As to to whom, just look at the gobs of money Desantis is getting from Super PACs, it's a very small world, https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2023/05/pro-ron-desantis-super-pac-to-inherit-state-level-pac-war-chest-to-support-presidential-run/

So if he's willing to bend the knee to the ADL, why in the world wouldn't you think he'd do the same for any of his big time donors? The answer is obvious, of course he would.

Desantis is perfectly fine adopting rules to silence speech. That's not the guy I would think is, a. a conservative and b. one who deserves leading the Republican Party. That's some 1984 level policy! Just say no to this guy. He's being led by the nose. The Pinocchio comparisons go far beyond his wooden persona. Dude is literally being marionetted by donors. First the ADL, then who else?

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Describe what speech is being silenced.

FireAg said:

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It's interesting that, on a national scale, Trump is polling significantly better than DeSantis now when they are put head-to-head with Biden...




What concerns me is that this might mean that no one with an R next to their name is going to be able to beat Biden, but between Trump and DeSantis, currently, Trump has a better chance...

Again, the standard caveat applies...assuming the election process is legal and fair...

---

The key is there are a LOT more undecided voters in Biden v DeSantis than Biden v Trump and those undecideds are very likely to swing to DeSantis. You have a number of hardcore MAGA types for instance that answer these surveys saying they are "undecided" in DeSantis vs Biden for instance. An incumbent polling against a challenger where the incumbent is in the low 40s is in big trouble.

Trump is technically not an incumbent but he essentially is because he is a former President and has 100% Name ID.

Tibbers said:

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https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/269/BillText/er/PDF

The law goes far beyond that and you know it. I would very much like to move away from dark money, super PACs and the strings attached. I look at this piece of legislation as exhibit A. as to what expect going forward with Desantis. An outsider seems to be the only way forward to reverse the trend of politics as you see it. Forgive me for not wanting more of the status quo considering where that has taken us so far.

So good for Desantis playing ball in the way we have seen in the past. I appreciate him showing Republicans who he actually is, a political mercenary beholden to the almighty campaign dollar. You seem to think that's ok. Well, best of luck to your candidate if you feel that's a winning strategy.

---

Read the bill. The only sections not related to trespassing are someone coming up to someone at a Public University that is a "credible threat" with the intention of getting that person to stop attending that school based around their religious heritage. Oh, and you can't dump garbage on someone's property to intimidate them or project images onto someone else's property (like putting a Swastika on a Jewish person's house).

The 1st Amendment is not about your freedom to harass and intimidate other people, especially because of their religious background on their property or while they are attending school. Most of this law is really just making it essentially "aggravated trespassing" if you are trespassing and doing so because you want to intimidate someone. You have a right to do as you will until you are harassing someone else or going on their property.

What a strange hill to die on but I guess Vivek is the candidate who is more in favor of being able to intimidate and harass people based on religion? Congrats?

stop feeding the Ramaswamy thread derailer...

Trump suffers big loss in E. Jean Carroll defamation case, judge says he's liable
WED, SEP 6 202310:14 AM EDT

A federal judge ruled that Donald Trump is liable for defamatory statements he made about the writer E. Jean Carroll in 2019 when she went public with claims he raped her decades earlier.

Judge Lewis Kaplan said the upcoming trial for Carroll's civil lawsuit against Trump will only deal with the question of how much the former president should pay her in monetary damages.

In May, a jury in Manhattan federal court in a related case found that Trump sexually abused Carroll during an encounter in a New York department store in the mid-1990s, and defamed her last fall.

More Trump donations going to fund his court cases

As Biden's biomedical state is chomping at the bit to bring back COVID authoritarianism, we will continue to hold the line.

As your President, I will usher in a reckoning for those who devised the failed and destructive biomedical policies that caused damage throughout our… pic.twitter.com/VKh0zVkiRw

— Ron DeSantis (@RonDeSantis) September 6, 2023

Back on the trail.

Fake News: Donors are leaving DeSantis.

Actual News: DeSantis raises 400k his first day back on the campaign trail.https://t.co/oQhRljDTvo

— Unfiltered☢Boss (@Unfilteredboss1) September 6, 2023

TRM said:

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Back on the trail.

Fake News: Donors are leaving DeSantis.

Actual News: DeSantis raises 400k his first day back on the campaign trail.https://t.co/oQhRljDTvo

— Unfiltered☢Boss (@Unfilteredboss1) September 6, 2023

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So I guess replacing 250X what he "lost" from the fake PAC in one day isn't bad.

Trump wants to debate intellectual heavyweight Meghan Markle.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4189919-trump-says-he-would-love-to-debate-meghan-markle/

Quote:

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The hypothetical head-to-head between the actress formerly known as Meghan Markle and the 45th president was floated by radio host Hugh Hewitt on his eponymous show during an interview with Trump on Wednesday.

Asked if he would sit down with Meghan and her husband Prince Harry "for the ratings" in what Hewitt speculated would be a widely viewed event, Trump replied, "If you want to set it up, let's set it up."

"Let's go do something," Trump said. "I'd love to debate her. I would love it."

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TRM said:

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Trump wants to debate intellectual heavyweight Meghan Markle.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4189919-trump-says-he-would-love-to-debate-meghan-markle/

Quote:

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The hypothetical head-to-head between the actress formerly known as Meghan Markle and the 45th president was floated by radio host Hugh Hewitt on his eponymous show during an interview with Trump on Wednesday.

Asked if he would sit down with Meghan and her husband Prince Harry "for the ratings" in what Hewitt speculated would be a widely viewed event, Trump replied, "If you want to set it up, let's set it up."

"Let's go do something," Trump said. "I'd love to debate her. I would love it."

---

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Great to see that as always-

Trump focuses on the most important issues to Americans and on the best ways to win an election...

Trump lawyer: I warned him that the FBI could raid Mar-a-Lago
ABC NEWS 1:00 PM on September 06, 2023

In May of last year, shortly after the Justice Department issued a subpoena to former President Donald Trump for all classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago estate, Trump's then-lead attorney on the matter, Evan Corcoran, warned the former president in person, at Mar-a-Lago, that not only did Trump have to fully comply with the subpoena, but that the FBI might search the estate if he didn't, according to Corcoran's audio notes following the conversation.

Corcoran's recollections, captured in a series of voice memos he made on his phone the next day, help illuminate Trump's alleged efforts to defy a federal grand jury subpoena, and appear to shed more light on his frame of mind when he allegedly launched what prosecutors say was a criminal conspiracy to hide classified documents from both the FBI and Corcoran, his own attorney.

If true, then it would explain why he kept Corcoran in the dark, too. It would also tend to support the indictment's claim that Trump's obstruction was deliberate and purposefully deceitful.

His current attorneys are raising a hue and cry over attorney-client privilege, which will play an important part in whether Corcoran's notes will get used in court and is worth watching.

However, the allegation that Trump used an unwitting Corcoran to deceive the grand jury certainly runs the risk of triggering a well-established exception to that rule, when the privilege is abused to further a crime.

Trump Deceived his own Attorneys

Biden DHS Advisory Member Sues To Keep Trump Off Ballot Using 14th Amendment
WEDNESDAY, SEP 06, 2023 - 02:05 PM

A watchdog group founded by an advisor to Biden's Department of Homeland Security is suing to keep former President Donald Trump from the 2024 ballot in Colorado, citing the 14th Amendment and Trump's alleged role in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

In an amazing feat of coincidental timing (we're sure), just days after Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) laid out an argument for disqualification on MSNBC, the group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), filed a lawsuit on Wednesday under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

CREW is headed up by Noah Bookbinder, who was appointed to the DHS's Advisory Council in March of 2022 by Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas (Another quid-pro-Joe?).

More Legal Fees for Trump instead of campaigning

CREW is very leftist organization. From their website

Quote:

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Americans deserve a government that is ethical, accountable, and open.

At CREW, we use aggressive legal actions, in-depth investigations, and innovative policy and reform work to achieve that vision. We take on big fights against powerful opponents, from the President of the United States to wealthy dark money donors. Despite long odds, we continue to have victories large and small, thanks to our innovative legal strategies and unrelenting dedication.

On Donald Trump's first full day in the Oval Office, CREW sued him for violating the Emoluments Clauses of the U.S. Constitution, because of the unconstitutional corruption that would result from his refusal to divest from his business interests.

Our complaints have led to record-breaking FEC fines for dark money groups in the post-Citizens United era, and our lawsuits have brought about stronger enforcement of existing campaign finance laws, leading directly to more disclosure of dark money donors.

CREW ethics complaints have resulted in reprimands for more than a dozen Trump administration officials, including the Office of Special Counsel's unprecedented call for Kellyanne Conway to be removed from federal service.

---

LINK

Who funds them?

Quote:

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Among the foundations that have made significant contributions to CREW in recent years:

• The Foundation to Promote Open Society (controlled by liberal billionaire financier George Soros and his family): $740,000 since 2010
• The Open Society Institute (another foundation controlled by Soros): $150,000 in 2010
• The Bohemian Foundation (controlled by Colorado Democratic donor Pat Stryker and her political operatives): $850,000 since 2010
• Gill Foundation (private foundation of Colorado Democratic mega-donor Tim Gill): $608,615 since 2010
• Dyson Foundation (family foundation of the late Charles Dyson, an FDR Administration official, leveraged-buyout titan, and longtime board member of liberal group Common Cause): $500,000 since 2011
• Steven M. Silberstein Foundation (run by Steven Silberstein, a Democracy Alliance financier and member of the board of advisers for U.C. Berkeley's public policy school who made his money in the software industry): $500,000 since 2010
• Marisla Foundation (environmentalist foundation run by J. Paul Getty oil fortune heiress Anne Getty Earheart): $425,000
• Leland Fikes Foundation (controlled by Lee Fikes, Texas oilman and major donor to Democrats and abortion-rights causes): $200,000
• Daniel and Janet Mordecai Foundation (foundation controlled by major Colorado Democratic Party donor Janet Mordecai): $100,000

The foundation funders of CREW, many of which are members of or otherwise linked with the Democracy Alliance group of liberal megadonors, clearly demonstrate the partisan and ideological alignment of the organization. Among the groups in the Democracy Alliance's funding orbit is one of CREW's stablemates in the David Brock liberal group empire, Media Matters for America.
CREW has been rumored previously to be involved with both the Democracy Alliance and the similar, union- and environmentalist-convened Democracy Initiative.

Oddly for a group that is outraged whenever a conservative or Republican group obtains confidential funding, CREW reportedly has solicited or assisted liberal and Democratic groups doing just that.

Politico reported on a 2010 Democracy Alliance conference that CREW's Melanie Sloan attended: One attendee told the reporter, "The agreement is that everything that goes on here is confidential." In attendance were many Democratic donors and left-leaning activists. CREW was also reportedly one of the organizations formally represented at the conference: Sloan refused to comment on her participation.

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LINK

Gutless.

TRUMP: I didn’t fire Fauci because the Establishment said “you're not allowed to fire him.”
@RonDeSantis will bring a reckoning to the tyrannical bureaucrats and left-wing lockdowners who tried to destroy this country. pic.twitter.com/1VthFQE1K9

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) September 6, 2023

Tibbers said:

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That's rich. Every Vivek thread has you and your host of Desantis detractors but this thread is sacred? Please.

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You should really go start your own thread. Call it
OFFICIAL ****Vivek Ramaswamy Kisses Donald Trump's Arse Again*** thread...

You should check out the civil service protection act. Context is important.

Safe spaces?