OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Ron DeSantis*** thread...

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FL_Ag1998
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Zero doubt in my mind that Vivek, Haley, and Scott have made deals with Trump.

"Play foil to Desantis and get a post in my cabinet. It'll be a wonderful position...amazing position. In the best cabinet ever...beautiful cabinet...best cabinet in the history of humankind."
aggie93
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The level of understanding of issues and the Constitution that DeSantis has just continues to blow me away. I have zero doubt that if DeSantis had chosen a different path he could have been a Supreme Court Justice on the level of Alito or Thomas.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
FireAg
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5 months to erase ~25 points…

It's just not as much time as some of you think…

It's not an eternity…it's right around the corner…and the clock is ticking, especially when you consider the size of the gap…

If it were 10-12 pts, I'd be the first to say DeSantis has time…

At 25 point, I don't think he has time to be overly patient…I'm sorry…the gap is just too big, and he doesn't have the draw of an Obama…
aggiehawg
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aggie93 said:

The level of understanding of issues and the Constitution that DeSantis has just continues to blow me away. I have zero doubt that if DeSantis had chosen a different path he could have been a Supreme Court Justice on the level of Alito or Thomas.



GOP had the same in Cruz in 2016. Just sayin'.
FL_Ag1998
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aggiehawg said:

aggie93 said:

The level of understanding of issues and the Constitution that DeSantis has just continues to blow me away. I have zero doubt that if DeSantis had chosen a different path he could have been a Supreme Court Justice on the level of Alito or Thomas.



GOP had the same in Cruz in 2016. Just sayin'.


Sadly its just another example of how unfortunately, time and time again, average Americans value "entertainment and showmanship" over intelligence and competence to run our country. I just hope we can buck the trend next year instead of continuing to circle the drain.
aggie93
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FireAg said:

5 months to erase ~25 points…

It's just not as much time as some of you think…

It's not an eternity…it's right around the corner…and the clock is ticking, especially when you consider the size of the gap…

If it were 10-12 pts, I'd be the first to say DeSantis has time…

At 25 point, I don't think he has time to be overly patient…I'm sorry…the gap is just too big, and he doesn't have the draw of an Obama…
Hillary literally led Obama by over 30 points at this point and he didn't have nearly the money that DeSantis does. Hillary was also very popular with Democrats in 2008, far more than in 2016.

I do agree that this will require Trump to slip up but he's quite good at doing that. I mean Trump literally has to hope people don't notice how bad he looks compared to DeSantis and avoid him at all costs. He has to hope people don't tire of the indictments and drama. He has to hope there isn't a story that comes out that gets traction that reminds people why they were so tired of him.

30 points really isn't that much at this point as much as it sounds daunting because really it's all about Iowa and it's definitely under 20 there and maybe less. If you count actual Caucus goers who knows. I do think DeSantis has to either win or come close in Iowa to have a shot otherwise the momentum could be too much. Trump having a big lead nationally because he leads in places that aren't voting until 3 months after Iowa just don't matter much unless it influences the people in those early states.

I'm also not saying DeSantis should be patient btw and he clearly isn't, I mean he's out hitting the road like crazy, doing interviews with hostile outlets, accepted the challenge with Newsom (which will be a big event but not until November), and shook up his campaign staff. What I am saying is that folks like us have to be patient otherwise you get caught up in the moment. Historically this is still insanely early early and this is an especially unusual primary.

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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aggiehawg said:

aggie93 said:

The level of understanding of issues and the Constitution that DeSantis has just continues to blow me away. I have zero doubt that if DeSantis had chosen a different path he could have been a Supreme Court Justice on the level of Alito or Thomas.



GOP had the same in Cruz in 2016. Just sayin'.
It's certainly possible people want to back the Carnival Barker and learn a very hard lesson that's true.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
FireAg
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I know it sucks to hear this, and we can lament the lack of America's attention span, but DeSantis simply does not have the (becoming cliche, I know) "charisma" of an Obama…

Obama used his charm and race to pull past Hillary…

Those are things that DeSantis just doesn't have going for him…

Yes, that is a very pathetic commentary on our American culture today, but it doesn't make it any less of a reality…

Obama grabbed one's attention when he spoke…DeSantis doesn't, regardless of the actual substance (which is substantial) of his message…
Showertime at the Bidens
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aggiehawg said:

aggie93 said:

The level of understanding of issues and the Constitution that DeSantis has just continues to blow me away. I have zero doubt that if DeSantis had chosen a different path he could have been a Supreme Court Justice on the level of Alito or Thomas.



GOP had the same in Cruz in 2016. Just sayin'.


No. Just no. Ted Cruz is smart but weak. He's suited as a senator. If you put Ted in charge of Florida, I really doubt he has the same success as DeSantis.
aggie93
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FireAg said:

I know it sucks to hear this, and we can lament the lack of America's attention span, but DeSantis simply does not have the (becoming cliche, I know) "charisma" of an Obama…

Obama used his charm and race to pull past Hillary…

Those are things that DeSantis just doesn't have going for him…

Yes, that is a very pathetic commentary on our American culture today, but it doesn't make it any less of a reality…

Obama grabbed one's attention when he spoke…DeSantis doesn't, regardless of the actual substance (which is substantial) of his message…
True but that was really all Obama had. The key is going to be if there is a GOP repudiation of Trump and DeSantis is the best alternative. Or not.

Charisma wins sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Nixon, both Bushes, Biden, and Carter all had pretty low charisma. Trump, Obama, Clinton, and Reagan did.

Once again we will see but I promise nothing has happened in the last month that is going to matter much in January. Trump has a big poll lead but he has let DeSantis wrap up all of the big players on the ground in Iowa and has the most popular politician in the State campaigning with him weekly. DeSantis has already hit over 30 counties and is doing about a dozen events a week. If you think folks there give a damn that Trump is popular in rural Alabama you don't know much about how that state works. There will likely be around 200k folks that Caucus out of 3.1 million in Iowa.

Iowa and NH are all about turnout and if Trump loses one or both he's going to have to do things like debate 1v1 with DeSantis to win. If he can hang out in MAL, play golf, and show up for an occasional rally in friendly territory and win that's possible too.

I've accepted that Trump may win and understand the consequences of that. I'm not going to lose hope for DeSantis though unless he gets crushed in Iowa and NH no matter how many times you post a national poll and talk about how difficult it will be for him to make up a polling deficit based around people in states that won't be voting until months after the first 2 happen.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
J. Walter Weatherman
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FireAg said:

5 months to erase ~25 points…

It's just not as much time as some of you think…

It's not an eternity…it's right around the corner…and the clock is ticking, especially when you consider the size of the gap…

If it were 10-12 pts, I'd be the first to say DeSantis has time…

At 25 point, I don't think he has time to be overly patient…I'm sorry…the gap is just too big, and he doesn't have the draw of an Obama…


Quote:

Like I said, it would be easier for you if you just copy/pasted "eyes emoji, DeSantis still down in the polls" every hour or so, which also, likely not coincidentally, aligns with the Trump campaign message that the race is already over.
TRM
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TRM
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So the indictment fundraising is getting smaller.
BigRobSA
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Good Lord, people are morons. Here we have a great, conservative winner of a candidate in Desantis and there is still a better-than-zero chance the idiotic GOP might snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and choose....yet again....a liberal tard who can't piece together a coherent conservative argument on any subject, let alone stop attacking conservatism from the left.

Charpie
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Because people aren't being rational. They are being emotional
TRM
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Rapier108
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Most likely they're all giving $$$ to his new legal defense fund organization since it has no limits.

MAGA thinks Trump is "winning" for them by getting indicted over and over and it is their duty to help him by funding a billionaire's legal defense.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
TRM
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Yup, it's a 527, so unlimited donations and it can be foreign donors.
Rapier108
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TRM said:

Yup, it's a 527, so unlimited donations and it can be foreign donors.
And most likely will end up with him getting indicted for it when some of the money gets used for his campaign or something else it can't legally go to.

Then he'll whine that he's being targeted by the deep state, and ask for more $$$.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
FireAg
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Charpie said:

Because people aren't being rational. They are being emotional
Absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, and categorically spot on...

But that's what I mean when I talk about the steep hill to climb to reverse inertia...

You can convince a person of this or that, but people, as a whole, with a short amount of time, are ignorant with short attention spans, and they are going to gravitate toward the loudest noise in the echo chamber...

That's the reality...

Once you accept that, once you accept that you can't change the inertia of 10s of millions of like-minded folks in a short period of time, you must then focus on how you can reach them...

And for better or worse, that means a candidate must adjust their approach to become the loudest voice in the echo chamber...

He doesn't have to engage in insults toward the front-runner to be loud (especially since that's where the frontrunner draws strength from), but he can be loud and boisterous and attack the true enemy, the establishment and the Left, by shouting his message out from the mountain tops...

DeSantis needs to make some waves...he needs to not only be the most sane and conservative voice in the room, but he also needs to start being the loudest...grab some headlines...

I think it's great that he has this grassroots, ground game...but he needs to start making waves on a national scale as well, and force people to hear him...

The only people who are paying attention to DeSantis right now are those who want to hear him...he's got to grab the attention of those who don't follow him closely and only listen to the loudest headlines, and he has to force them to pay attention to his message...
BigBrother
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I'm honestly not saying this to be rude, but you're like a broken record. You repeat the same point over and over and over and over....

We get it.
LMCane
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Trump claims Fulton County DA Fani Willis had an AFFAIR with the head of a criminal gang ahead of probable fourth indictment in Georgia he says will secure his 2024 win.

Good thing Trump is focusing on important issues

'They say she was after a certain gang, she ended up having an affair with the head of the gang or a gang member,' Trump said in New Hampshire.

'This is a person who wants to indict me. She's got a lot of problems but she wants to indict me to try and run for some other office."

anyone who still supports this buffoon deserves to have Biden ruin your life.

FireAg
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BigBrother said:

I'm honestly not saying this to be rude, but you're like a broken record. You repeat the same point over and over and over and over....

We get it.

No, honestly I don't think a lot of you do...

Many of you want to call folks cults, and uneducated, and mouth breathers, etc...and you don't accept that there are millions of people you are trying to switch over to your preferred candidate, and the best way to do so is not calling them a bunch of ****ing morons...why? Because they currently outnumber you, but you still need their votes...

The candidate needs to capture their ears with his delivery...capture their eyes with his headlines...

That's the only thing that will have a chance to turn the tide for DeSantis, short of Trump willingly or forcefully being removed from the R primaries...
LMCane
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TRM said:

So the indictment fundraising is getting smaller.


Great post-

something I was thinking about: at some point even the idiots who support Trump don't even know how many indictments or charges or arrests there are for him. It just becomes background noise.

That will be very helpful to DeSantis.

Eventually all these legal problems just become "Trump" and he can't capitalize every time he is arrested or going to plead in court or any of the circus that Trump loves so much.
BigBrother
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FireAg said:

BigBrother said:

I'm honestly not saying this to be rude, but you're like a broken record. You repeat the same point over and over and over and over....

We get it.

No, honestly I don't think a lot of you do...

Many of you want to call folks cults, and uneducated, and mouth breathers, etc...and you don't accept that there are millions of people you are trying to switch over to your preferred candidate, and the best way to do so is not calling them a bunch of ****ing morons...why? Because they currently outnumber you, but you still need their votes...

The candidate needs to capture their ears with his delivery...capture their eyes with his headlines...

That's the only thing that will have a chance to turn the tide for DeSantis, short of Trump willingly or forcefully being removed from the R primaries...
You've made this point 100x in this thread. We get it. We aren't the campaign. Sign up.
LMCane
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FL_Ag1998 said:

Zero doubt in my mind that Vivek, Haley, and Scott have made deals with Trump.

"Play foil to Desantis and get a post in my cabinet. It'll be a wonderful position...amazing position. In the best cabinet ever...beautiful cabinet...best cabinet in the history of humankind."

I don't think so.

They are grifters and selfish egoists- but none of them are idiots.

They know better than anyone that Trump is not going to win. Vivek will be grifting because he has nothing to lose trying to get a VP nod and take over as the leader of the dummies in 2028.

Scott and Haley know they will never be in a Trump Cabinet!

Haley ALREADY was in a Trump cabinet and quit half way through.

why would Scott even want to be Secretary of Transportation when he is still a sitting US Senator?
LMCane
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aggie93 said:

LMCane said:

TRM said:

FireAg said:

DeSantis replaces campaign manager...
Thie bigger thing I got from this is David Polyansky officially joining the DeSantis campaign. Big ties to IA and former strategist for Ernst.
leftists frame it as some firing of the "campaign manager" but Generra Peck is still part of the campaign and has been joined by two other outstanding managers.

this will help even more in Iowa and getting that Ernst endorsement along with the Reynolds endorsement.
Very unlikely he gets an official endorsement from any of the 3 big players in Iowa or Sununu in NH because that would be bad politically for them. Those states know that being the first Caucus/Primary is a major boon for them and if they endorsed DeSantis for instance and then Trump won he might mess with that just out of spite.

So instead they just appear with him, join the "Mamas for DeSantis", sign his bus, and Grassley literally babysat their won while Dad spoke this weekend. It's pretty obvious who they prefer. Sununu also spends a LOT of time with DeSantis. They are clearly advising him and letting him use their resources.
Sununu is not running again for Governor and everyone knows he despises Trump.

It's not going to hurt him in New Hampshire where Trump is not well liked.
FireAg
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LMCane said:



It's not going to hurt him in New Hampshire where Trump is not well liked.
What data can you point to that backs up your assertion?

Phatbob
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FireAg said:

LMCane said:



It's not going to hurt him in New Hampshire where Trump is not well liked.
What data can you point to that backs that up your assertion?


Those are awful numbers for an "incumbent". Seems pretty straight forward to me
BigRobSA
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FireAg said:

BigBrother said:

I'm honestly not saying this to be rude, but you're like a broken record. You repeat the same point over and over and over and over....

We get it.

No, honestly I don't think a lot of you do...

Many of you want to call folks cults, and uneducated, and mouth breathers, etc...and you don't accept that there are millions of people you are trying to switch over to your preferred candidate, and the best way to do so is not calling them a bunch of ****ing morons...why? Because they currently outnumber you, but you still need their votes...

The candidate needs to capture their ears with his delivery...capture their eyes with his headlines...

That's the only thing that will have a chance to turn the tide for DeSantis, short of Trump willingly or forcefully being removed from the R primaries...


If one isn't for Desantis over Trump (conservative over a liberal) at this point, that person IS a mouth-breathing moron and I can't figure out how to dole out extra IQ points.
aggie93
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FireAg said:

LMCane said:



It's not going to hurt him in New Hampshire where Trump is not well liked.
What data can you point to that backs that up your assertion?


Trump lost NH in both '16 and '20 and went from being close to losing pretty handily. His style does not resonate there well. He has a base of support with Republicans of course but he will never win that state and his guy Bolduc lost to a pretty inept Democratic Senator mainly because of his connection to Trump and talking about the '20 election.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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BigRobSA said:

FireAg said:

BigBrother said:

I'm honestly not saying this to be rude, but you're like a broken record. You repeat the same point over and over and over and over....

We get it.

No, honestly I don't think a lot of you do...

Many of you want to call folks cults, and uneducated, and mouth breathers, etc...and you don't accept that there are millions of people you are trying to switch over to your preferred candidate, and the best way to do so is not calling them a bunch of ****ing morons...why? Because they currently outnumber you, but you still need their votes...

The candidate needs to capture their ears with his delivery...capture their eyes with his headlines...

That's the only thing that will have a chance to turn the tide for DeSantis, short of Trump willingly or forcefully being removed from the R primaries...


If one isn't for Desantis over Trump (conservative over a liberal) at this point, that person IS a mouth-breathing moron and I can't figure out how to dole out extra IQ points.
I wouldn't go that far, most people just aren't paying that close attention and don't really know who DeSantis is. The media and Trump certainly aren't helping, they are making you work for it. Folks here get that but for most it won't happen until the Primaries start if it is going to happen. Everyone I know is thinking about Summer being over and kids going back to school.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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LMCane said:

aggie93 said:

LMCane said:

TRM said:

FireAg said:

DeSantis replaces campaign manager...
Thie bigger thing I got from this is David Polyansky officially joining the DeSantis campaign. Big ties to IA and former strategist for Ernst.
leftists frame it as some firing of the "campaign manager" but Generra Peck is still part of the campaign and has been joined by two other outstanding managers.

this will help even more in Iowa and getting that Ernst endorsement along with the Reynolds endorsement.
Very unlikely he gets an official endorsement from any of the 3 big players in Iowa or Sununu in NH because that would be bad politically for them. Those states know that being the first Caucus/Primary is a major boon for them and if they endorsed DeSantis for instance and then Trump won he might mess with that just out of spite.

So instead they just appear with him, join the "Mamas for DeSantis", sign his bus, and Grassley literally babysat their won while Dad spoke this weekend. It's pretty obvious who they prefer. Sununu also spends a LOT of time with DeSantis. They are clearly advising him and letting him use their resources.
Sununu is not running again for Governor and everyone knows he despises Trump.

It's not going to hurt him in New Hampshire where Trump is not well liked.
I think you misunderstand. New Hampshire doesn't want to lose that "First Primary" status so endorsing anyone is a bad look to folks there. Sununu might run for Senate for instance in the future. So just not much benefit to a formal endorsement when he can just do everything to help DeSantis and appear with him but not "endorse" him.

It's just particular politics to those first 2 states where being the first 2 is literally a massive economic boon for both of them and it is a source of a lot of state pride.

Believe me though, people there notice who folks like Sununu, Reynolds, Earnst, and Grassley are spending time with and praising.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
TRM
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This is how dumb the electorate is. They don't have a clue how serious the situation is and the Federal prosecutor's conviction rate.
Rapier108
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TRM said:

This is how dumb the electorate is. They don't have a clue how serious the situation is and the Federal prosecutor's conviction rate.

It's like trying to separate someone from their abusive spouse. No matter how bad it is, they just won't let the person go.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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