Honestly, DeSantis staked out a more moderate position on abortion on the national level compared to his state level view and took flak from the Susan B. Anthony group for not backing a federal abortion ban at 15 weeks. Not that big a deal to moderate from that since there's no appetite for it in Congress, so why waste political capital on something that's not practical.

Scott and Pence are calling him out for not backing the ban.

When you're in a hole, stop ****ing digging. Currently the top trend on Twitter, with MAGA wanting war, the left wanting Trump either imprisoned right now or executed.

Trump on Truth Social:

“IF YOU COME AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!” pic.twitter.com/iByibOGhbX

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) August 4, 2023

trump still writing checks he cannot cash.

FireAg said:

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I'm not posing anything, bud…

Merely pondering why it's so difficult for conservatives to be able to have their cake and eat it too…

And he needs to get elected…otherwise it's moot…

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Calm down bud, lol. I'm trying to have a conversation with you, calmly posting my opinion in response to yours.

aggiehawg said:

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Thank you for the response, first off.

I am just trying to follow along. In 2016 when I wasn't on the Trump train immediately, I was castigated about it.

I take my time to judge candidates in every race. Never liked McCain at all but still forced myself to vote for him in the GE. Romney needed to say, "We tried ObamaCare in Massacusetts. It doesn't work," but did not. Which was mind boggling to me at the time.

So if Bigelow was a large donor to either one of them during the primary season, I have questions.

---

Hey, its difinitely news when a big donor not only reacts this way but does it publicly. Definitely worth discussing. And people still making up their minds obviously have a right to doubt and question. I might respond a little vigorously sometimes, but no offense meant. As long as people are legit with their doubts and questions, as opposed to hiding behind neutrality while conspicuously only pointing out flaws in one candidate (which is not what I think you're doing, btw).

I'm perfectly calm…I'm wondering if DeSantis folks want moral victories or a real victory?

This, along with his recent layoff/reorg…it's unsettling…

FireAg said:

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I'm perfectly calm…I'm wondering if DeSantis folks want moral victories or a real victory?

This, along with his recent layoff/reorg…it's unsettling…

---

Well, team Trump is happy with their moral victories, and not real ones.

C@LAg said:

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FireAg said:

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I'm perfectly calm…I'm wondering if DeSantis folks want moral victories or a real victory?

This, along with his recent layoff/reorg…it's unsettling…

---

Well, team Trump is happy with their moral victories, and not real ones.

---

And DeSantis may not even get that if he doesn't start picking up steam…

But neither can win if we don't figure out how to do fair voting and start holding the media accountable for their reporting…

FireAg said:

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C@LAg said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I'm perfectly calm…I'm wondering if DeSantis folks want moral victories or a real victory?

This, along with his recent layoff/reorg…it's unsettling…

---

Well, team Trump is happy with their moral victories, and not real ones.

---

And DeSantis may not even get that if he doesn't start picking up steam…

But neither can win if we don't figure out how to do fair voting and start holding the media accountable for their reporting…

---

and yet trump is spending 50+% of his time attacking desantis, te remaining time in court, and spending his campaign money on defending his charges and not doing anyting about said election issues.

but sure... desantis is the issue here.

FireAg said:

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C@LAg said:

---

FireAg said:

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I'm perfectly calm…I'm wondering if DeSantis folks want moral victories or a real victory?

This, along with his recent layoff/reorg…it's unsettling…

---

Well, team Trump is happy with their moral victories, and not real ones.

---

And DeSantis may not even get that if he doesn't start picking up steam…

But neither can win if we don't figure out how to do fair votingand start holding the media accountable for their reporting…

---

Holding the media accountable is a fanciful notion but there's 0.01% chance of it happening. There's just no way to do it. So what needs to happen is the alternative media (podcasts like Rogan, Daily Wire, etc) continues to grow until their voice is just as loud as the MSM. Then the liberal MSM will still be shreiking their latest talking point but at least the alternative news sources will have just as big of a soapbox.

But fair voting won't happen until after this election, and only if the right candidate wins. And for this election the R's need to play the same game as the D's....harvest the **** out of votes. And Desantis said that very same thing. Play by the Dem's rules to win this election then on Day 1 of office start tearing down the voting aparatus the Dems use to "cheat".

C@LAg said:

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FireAg said:

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C@LAg said:

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FireAg said:

---

I'm perfectly calm…I'm wondering if DeSantis folks want moral victories or a real victory?

This, along with his recent layoff/reorg…it's unsettling…

---

Well, team Trump is happy with their moral victories, and not real ones.

---

And DeSantis may not even get that if he doesn't start picking up steam…

But neither can win if we don't figure out how to do fair voting and start holding the media accountable for their reporting…

---

and yet trump is spending 50+% of his time attacking desantis, te remaining time in court, and spending his campaign money on defending his charges and not doing anyting about said election issues.

but sure... desantis is the issue here.

---

This isn't a Trump or DeSantis issue…

It's bigger than that…

aggiehawg said:

---

Thank you for the response, first off.

I am just trying to follow along. In 2016 when I wasn't on the Trump train immediately, I was castigated about it.

I take my time to judge candidates in every race. Never liked McCain at all but still forced myself to vote for him in the GE. Romney needed to say, "We tried ObamaCare in Massacusetts. It doesn't work," but did not. Which was mind boggling to me at the time.

So if Bigelow was a large donor to either one of them during the primary season, I have questions.

---

I agree it's a fair criticism. DeSantis has plenty of money ($100 million plus in reserve) but it's noteworthy when any huge donor shows hesitation. That said his concern is DeSantis is too conservative on abortion policy and wants to see him raise more money. Personally if DeSantis softens on that I would be more concerned. Sounds like this guy is trying to bet on the winner and likely doesn't like Trump, in all likelihood he isn't backing DeSantis as his first choice.

DeSantis is making some shifts. He's doing more free media and more small events. Also doing consistent fundraising. He is clearly trying to outlast Trump because Trump has serious money problems that are going to get a lot worse because he simply isn't getting significant donors. So DeSantis is hoping the Trump wave starts to ebb and his ground work will pay off and at the right time he can drop $50 million plus in Iowa and NH.

The problem for DeSantis is if GOP voters stay so angry about the Trump indictments they just ignore everything else and that could happen. We will find out in about 6 months in January in Iowa and then NH. Going to be a long 6 months.

FireAg said:

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C@LAg said:

---

FireAg said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

FireAg said:

---

I'm perfectly calm…I'm wondering if DeSantis folks want moral victories or a real victory?

This, along with his recent layoff/reorg…it's unsettling…

---

Well, team Trump is happy with their moral victories, and not real ones.

---

And DeSantis may not even get that if he doesn't start picking up steam…

But neither can win if we don't figure out how to do fair voting and start holding the media accountable for their reporting…

---

and yet trump is spending 50+% of his time attacking desantis, te remaining time in court, and spending his campaign money on defending his charges and not doing anyting about said election issues.

but sure... desantis is the issue here.

---

This isn't a Trump or DeSantis issue…

It's bigger than that…

---

DeSantis is spending big on ground game and harvesting, Trump is not nor is the RNC. Not sure how this isn't a Trump/DeSantis issue.

Notice the focus on the money here. Trump feels entitled to the DeSantis war chest.

What they won't tell you is that at this time in the 2016 primary Trump was polling even worse than DeSantis is now.

The reality is Trump can't endure a drawn-out campaign. Between his… https://t.co/cfornHqjYK

— Brian Jacobson (@BrianHJacobson) August 4, 2023

NH Townhall from earlier in the week
https://www.wmur.com/article/ron-desantis-new-hampshire-town-hall/44737596

aggie93 said:

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Notice the focus on the money here. Trump feels entitled to the DeSantis war chest.

What they won't tell you is that at this time in the 2016 primary Trump was polling even worse than DeSantis is now.

The reality is Trump can't endure a drawn-out campaign. Between his… https://t.co/cfornHqjYK

— Brian Jacobson (@BrianHJacobson) August 4, 2023

---

Trump needs more $$$ for his legal expenses. He doesn't give a rat's ass about getting money to win the general.

His other goal is to draw it out long enough thinking all of the big donors will come back to him and kiss the ring.

That's why Raheem Kassam and his Cult45 "news" site are always claiming all of the big donors are 1 step away from abandoning DeSantis.

“All of this stuff that's going on, I think it's just exacerbating the divisions. And so sometimes there's a larger picture that you have to look at, and I will be looking at that larger picture wanting to move forward for the sake of the country.”

— Kit Maher (@KitMaherCNN) August 4, 2023

Rapier108 said:

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aggie93 said:

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Notice the focus on the money here. Trump feels entitled to the DeSantis war chest.

What they won't tell you is that at this time in the 2016 primary Trump was polling even worse than DeSantis is now.

The reality is Trump can't endure a drawn-out campaign. Between his… https://t.co/cfornHqjYK

— Brian Jacobson (@BrianHJacobson) August 4, 2023

---

Trump needs more $$$ for his legal expenses. He doesn't give a rat's ass about getting money to win the general.

His other goal is to draw it out long enough thinking all of the big donors will come back to him and kiss the ring.

That's why Raheem Kassam and his Cult45 "news" site are always claiming all of the big donors are 1 step away from abandoning DeSantis.

---

No way. Trump is completely sincere that he is going to use all that money to build the greatest ballot harvesting effort ever. Ignore all those financial reporting numbers, they are fake news.

TRM said:

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“All of this stuff that's going on, I think it's just exacerbating the divisions. And so sometimes there's a larger picture that you have to look at, and I will be looking at that larger picture wanting to move forward for the sake of the country.”

— Kit Maher (@KitMaherCNN) August 4, 2023

---

So that's what had MAGA enraged this afternoon. (Then again, when are they not enraged?)

All the usual Cult45 propaganda sites blew up, claiming DeSantis was told to "sell out Trump" or "support election fraud" by his donors. According to them, DeSantis will be out of the race by next week because no one supports "traitors."

TRM said:

---

NH Townhall from earlier in the week
https://www.wmur.com/article/ron-desantis-new-hampshire-town-hall/44737596

---

Easier to watch it here

Rapier108 said:

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TRM said:

---

“All of this stuff that's going on, I think it's just exacerbating the divisions. And so sometimes there's a larger picture that you have to look at, and I will be looking at that larger picture wanting to move forward for the sake of the country.”

— Kit Maher (@KitMaherCNN) August 4, 2023

---

So that's what had MAGA enraged this afternoon. (Then again, when are they not enraged?)

All the usual Cult45 propaganda sites blew up, claiming DeSantis was told to "sell out Trump" or "support election fraud" by his donors. According to them, DeSantis will be out of the race by next week because no one supports "traitors."

---

I think it was the 2020 election interference response that threw them into the fit.

TRM said:

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Rapier108 said:

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TRM said:

---

“All of this stuff that's going on, I think it's just exacerbating the divisions. And so sometimes there's a larger picture that you have to look at, and I will be looking at that larger picture wanting to move forward for the sake of the country.”

— Kit Maher (@KitMaherCNN) August 4, 2023

---

So that's what had MAGA enraged this afternoon. (Then again, when are they not enraged?)

All the usual Cult45 propaganda sites blew up, claiming DeSantis was told to "sell out Trump" or "support election fraud" by his donors. According to them, DeSantis will be out of the race by next week because no one supports "traitors."

---

I think it was the 2020 election interference response that threw them into the fit.

---

I'm sure that did too. Everything he says throws them into fits of rage. They, like Trump, still want to run on 2020 and nothing else. It appeals only to the hardcore Cult45 types. The rest of the country want to hear about how to make things better, not *****ing about something that isn't going to be undone.

Eventually one of them is going to pop and do something extremely stupid. Lots of comments tonight making threats against Jack Smith for requesting a protective order against Trump.

Unfortunately these numbers are likely to get worse not better. If Trump is the nominee we need him to win and this polling has been consistent.

Ooof. The findings of this new ABC News poll.

None of these numbers are good for Trump or Biden. pic.twitter.com/NbQWCfTewi

— Curtis Houck (@CurtisHouck) August 4, 2023

I think this is fearmongering. No way Trump gets convicted in a DC Court with that fair and impartial Judge. Much less NYC, Miami, or GA.

Nearly half of Republicans says they would not vote for former President Trump if he were convicted of a felony, and 52% wouldn't vote for him if he were in prison on Election Day. https://t.co/lrYcBLgP4a

— Axios (@axios) August 3, 2023

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/ron-desantis-effectively-ends-his-race-president-says/

aggie93 said:

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Notice the focus on the money here. Trump feels entitled to the DeSantis war chest.

What they won't tell you is that at this time in the 2016 primary Trump was polling even worse than DeSantis is now.

The reality is Trump can't endure a drawn-out campaign. Between his… https://t.co/cfornHqjYK

— Brian Jacobson (@BrianHJacobson) August 4, 2023

---

That's actually patently false…

Trump was in the low 20s in the RCP average at this point in 2015, as I have already posted earlier in this thread…

DeSantis is currently in the high teens in the RCP average as I have also already posted in this thread…

At best, it could be considered close enough to be a "dead heat", I suppose…but the problem DeSantis has is that, at this point in 2015, Trump was the RCP National average leader, if only by 1.6 points…. DeDantis today, trails in the RCP average by ~30ish points…

No idea where that tweeter go their info, but it's completely inaccurate…

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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Notice the focus on the money here. Trump feels entitled to the DeSantis war chest.

What they won't tell you is that at this time in the 2016 primary Trump was polling even worse than DeSantis is now.

The reality is Trump can't endure a drawn-out campaign. Between his… https://t.co/cfornHqjYK

— Brian Jacobson (@BrianHJacobson) August 4, 2023

---

That's actually patently false…

Trump was in the low 20s in the RCP average at this point in 2015, as I have already posted earlier in this thread…

DeSantis is currently in the high teens in the RCP average as I have also already posted in this thread…

At best, it could be considered close enough to be a "dead heat", I suppose…but the problem DeSantis has is that, at this point in 2015, Trump was the RCP National average leader, if only by 1.6 points…. DeDantis today, trails in the RCP average by ~30ish points…

No idea where that tweeter go their info, but it's completely inaccurate…

---

I agree the polling numbers are off in the commentary as Trump had risen by August, in June he was still every low. That's not the thing that matters.

What matters is Trump has his influencers out trying to get DeSantis to drop out and give him all of their money. He even said so in his last rally. The point is he is in serious financial trouble because that is beyond desperate. That's the point I am making with the post. I know you think polls are the only thing that matters but believe me money and ground game count for a LOT in Primaries.

I hear you…I just don't know that Trump needs to worry about finances as much as DeSantis because Trump still enjoys free press coverage…

But again…all of that is speculation…what will matter is votes in the early primaries…

And with 5 months to go, DeSantis has a very steep (yet not completely impossible) mountain to climb…

If he's still on the ballot when Texas rolls around, he will get my 1 little vote…but if I am honest, I just don't see him climbing that mountain the way things stand at the moment…

Things can change, and I do still believe the Left would rather see Trump in handcuffs than at the top of the general ballot in 2024, but right now, nothing seems to slow his momentum…

IMnAg79 said:

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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/ron-desantis-effectively-ends-his-race-president-says/

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Given gateway pundit's history, this is great news for DeSantis

FireAg said:

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I hear you…I just don't know that Trump needs to worry about finances as much as DeSantis because Trump still enjoys free press coverage…

But again…all of that is speculation…what will matter is votes in the early primaries…

And with 5 months to go, DeSantis has a very steep (yet not completely impossible) mountain to climb…

If he's still on the ballot when Texas rolls around, he will get my 1 little vote…but if I am honest, I just don't see him climbing that mountain the way things stand at the moment…

Things can change, and I do still believe the Left would rather see Trump in handcuffs than at the top of the general ballot in 2024, but right now, nothing seems to slow his momentum…

---

The only thing that I'll add is why not both of the above? Why is it only one or the other?

Trump in handcuffs is the left's wet dream of course. But Trump at the top of the general ballot allows them the ideal chance to stir up tears and mass hysteria at the prospect of Trump becoming president. And we know that's how the left generates votes - they either buy votes through giveaway programs or they scare you into voting for them. Trump is the ultimate villian who over half the country already hates and will actively vote against.

This Trump scenario is a win-win for the Dems.

IMnAg79 said:

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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/ron-desantis-effectively-ends-his-race-president-says/

---

Gateway Pundit opinion article, why not Conservative Treehouse?

I don't believe there is a grand conspiracy for the Left to push Trump to win the nomination so they can cheat him out of the general a second time…

I could absolutely be wrong, but I personally believe that's a bridge too far…

I think the Left and the establishment want him out of the race…

I think the media loves Trump headlines because it gets clicks…but the Establishment doesn't want to deal with a second Trump headache for 4 more years…

You guys better step up your donations.

Bigelow is out

FireAg said:

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I hear you…I just don't know that Trump needs to worry about finances as much as DeSantis because Trump still enjoys free press coverage…

But again…all of that is speculation…what will matter is votes in the early primaries…

And with 5 months to go, DeSantis has a very steep (yet not completely impossible) mountain to climb…

If he's still on the ballot when Texas rolls around, he will get my 1 little vote…but if I am honest, I just don't see him climbing that mountain the way things stand at the moment…

Things can change, and I do still believe the Left would rather see Trump in handcuffs than at the top of the general ballot in 2024, but right now, nothing seems to slow his momentum…

---

I don't disagree except that money and ground game absolutely matter. The question is if they can overcome. DeSantis is basically betting on working the ground game in those first few states and doing a gazillion events to meet as many people as possible there and setting up for a late push when people are paying attention the most. It may or may not work. There has never been a scenario quite like this though where you have a clear frontrunner with no ground game or money against a challenger that is also popular with a huge ground game and a ton of money.

You have had people with money that went nowhere because they had no real ground game or popularity but that's not the case here. No one really knows how the Trump legal stuff will end up playing out by January, will people still be blinded with rage or ready to move on? No clue. I do feel confident though that DeSantis will stick to his plan and keep working it. He is going to meet as many of the early voters that he possibly can and make his case while Trump plays golf and does the occasional event but mainly relies on national media talking about him and influencers.

It is also the case though that Trump has been spending tens of millions up until this point attacking DeSantis and that's going to be hard for him to do anymore. He is literally going to have barely enough campaign money to pay for jet fuel on Trump Force One because of the legal bills and his overhead. I've never heard of anyone actually beg for others to get out of a race and give them their money, it's crazy.

IMnAg79 said:

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You guys better step up your donations.

Bigelow is out

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Ooops big money donor sees that desantiis has no chance