Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Seeing that the talking points today are that Ron DeSantis smiled when they were force feeding terrorists to keep them alive in Gitmo.

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I must be living under a rock because I haven't heard anything about this and I watched Newsnation all morning.

I'll agree with you Denier, in that polls are about as believeable as "The Science" around COVID in the early days of it. There's so much vagueness and potential bias around how the polls are produced. Plus we've seen how the digital age and increased polarization of politics has had huge effects on the reliability of polls.

Charpie said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Seeing that the talking points today are that Ron DeSantis smiled when they were force feeding terrorists to keep them alive in Gitmo.

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I must be living under a rock because I haven't heard anything about this and I watched Newsnation all morning.

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https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-guantanamo-bay-detainee-ron-desantis-smiled-force-fed-2023-7?amp

Here is the link.

Charpie said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Seeing that the talking points today are that Ron DeSantis smiled when they were force feeding terrorists to keep them alive in Gitmo.

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I must be living under a rock because I haven't heard anything about this and I watched Newsnation all morning.

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Its making the rounds of the liberal media, this and a story about a cancelled documentary on Gitmo that might have featured Desantis being all evil and stuff.

Rolling Stone, MSN, Daily Beast, etc

Science Denier said:

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TRM said:

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ETA:Trump's pollster he fired earlier this year.

🇺🇲 2024 GE: 40 Swing Districts poll by Tony Fabrizio (R) & John Anzalone (D)

Biden 47% (+4)
Trump 43%
.
Desantis 45% (=)
Biden 45%

Trump performs 8 points worse than DeSantis among independent voters
——
Generic Ballot: R44-D44
——
1,752 LV | July 5-11https://t.co/KSGeBjtvOc pic.twitter.com/TREX5If7sl

— InteractivePolls (@IAPolls2022) July 21, 2023

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How do they define "independent" voters? Union labor is a 14 million voting block that backs Trump. There are even unionized teachers that vote Trump.

And this is the case despite the massive push last election by the union leadership.

Because they have now switched to Trump, are these now considered "republican"? They vote mostly democrat in most elections other than Trump specifically.

I really don't know how they do their "characterization".

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Trump made inroads with Union voters for sure but he does not have a "14 million voting block" behind him. He's just not getting completely clobbered by that vote. Had Trump done better with the Union vote btw he would have won the Rust Belt states in '20. Democrats slept on '16 but in '20 they got organized and didn't take the Union vote for granted so they used their machinery to make sure they got those votes. Ironically the nastiest example is probably Nevada which isn't Rust Belt but Harry Reid set up a system with Organized Crime and the Unions to make sure they got people to actually turn in their ballots to have them filled out. Good luck getting people to come out and testify against it btw and avoid ending up in a hole in the desert.

Democrats play dirty and they play for keeps. The solution is to fight that but also to out organize them and get creative as well. Trump will just complain and say he should have won, DeSantis is putting in the work and ground game.

Charpie said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Seeing that the talking points today are that Ron DeSantis smiled when they were force feeding terrorists to keep them alive in Gitmo.

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I must be living under a rock because I haven't heard anything about this and I watched Newsnation all morning.

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This is really more of a liberal thing. Even Trump folks know this isn't something they want to hit DeSantis on because A) It points out that DeSantis was at Gitmo B) No MAGA/Conservative voter GAF about a terrorist getting treated mean and C) The only evidence is the testimony of a terrorist and with 2 seconds of thought it makes no sense that a low ranking officer and Harvard Law guy got his jollies off of torturing terrorists and didn't care about the legal implications and DeSantis does a great job of communicating this when asked.

In short, DeSantis would be just fine with this story being made bigger and Trump folks know it, there is no win for them in this story.

RDS drops a nice video:

🚨🚨

MUST WATCH: 6 straight minutes of the Left admitting they fear DeSantis more than Trump. pic.twitter.com/0DOZqKUJXE

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) July 23, 2023

From red state:

Quote:

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If there was ever a presidential election in which Republican voters should look beyond the primaries to the general election, and vote for a candidate with the best opportunity to kick the Democrats the hell out of the White House, widen the GOP lead in the House, and make a serious run at gaining the majority in the Senate down-ballot elections matter I'm unaware of it, at least in modern history.

Why? While the reasons are many, the one that stands out is to avoid nominating a candidate who will cost the Republicans votes in 2024, simply because of the candidate, him or herself.

A perfect example existed in the 2016 presidential election on the other side of the aisle when "not-Hillary" votes helped propel Trump to victory. With so much at stake, the country as polarized as at any time in modern history, and a likely-close election, it's clear that the Repubs must cover every base possible if it is to rid America of Joe Biden & Co.

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Yes.

Got it. Thanks

nortex97 said:

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RDS drops a nice video:

🚨🚨

MUST WATCH: 6 straight minutes of the Left admitting they fear DeSantis more than Trump. pic.twitter.com/0DOZqKUJXE

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) July 23, 2023

From red state:

Quote:

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If there was ever a presidential election in which Republican voters should look beyond the primaries to the general election, and vote for a candidate with the best opportunity to kick the Democrats the hell out of the White House, widen the GOP lead in the House, and make a serious run at gaining the majority in the Senate down-ballot elections matter I'm unaware of it, at least in modern history.

Why? While the reasons are many, the one that stands out is to avoid nominating a candidate who will cost the Republicans votes in 2024, simply because of the candidate, him or herself.

A perfect example existed in the 2016 presidential election on the other side of the aisle when "not-Hillary" votes helped propel Trump to victory. With so much at stake, the country as polarized as at any time in modern history, and a likely-close election, it's clear that the Repubs must cover every base possible if it is to rid America of Joe Biden & Co.

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Yes.

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That video is just awesome and once again illustrates why the Democrats would much, much rather face Trump than DeSantis. You can see the fear in their faces and voices with DeSantis because he knows how to beat them at their own game and forces them to actually justify their issue stances instead of being able to point to Mean Tweets or personal stuff that Trump gives them an endless supply of to distract people.

Second hand embarrassment on this video

Are y’all okay? pic.twitter.com/EaKRBmdsDx

— Ian Smith (@iansmithfitness) July 23, 2023

That was, uh, yeah. Also not DeSantis/Trump related.

"It's amazing to me how little Kamala Harris has to do, that she can read something on Twitter one day and be on an airplane the next, to make something literally out of nothing ... This is completely a fabricated issue."pic.twitter.com/MMVSwzqiS8

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) July 24, 2023

Pretty solid back and forth here with Kirk and Rubin on Trump v DeSantis, btw they cut the last comment in what aired where he said that Trump gave Fauci an award. Amazing any Trump supporter is trying to act like Trump wasn't Pro Fauci, to this day Trump still won't say he should have fired Fauci.

.@charliekirk11 to @RubinReport: "The type of campaign I want DeSantis to run is like Vivek … There needs to be a sign of respect towards Trump ... DeSantis is a governor, thanks to Donald Trump." pic.twitter.com/mzBeI4XeLu

— Human Events (@HumanEvents) July 24, 2023

Kirk sold his soul to Trump, and like all Trumpers, they demand DeSantis not run, or treat Trump like he owns everything to him. This is the #1 problem with Trump and the Only & Forever Trumpers. They believe anyone who Trump endorsed owes him a lifetime blood debt.

And on top of that, of course Kirk doesn't say Trump should run a positive campaign. Trump can lie, slander, defame, and insult DeSantis, and he if he responds, it is unacceptable because of said blood debt.

Kirk's position is pretty embarrassing in that clip.

A bizarre stance and thing to to say...basically, you can run but don't ever say a negative thing about the almighty one. Also, DeSantis OWES TRUMP. I don't know how you can describe this attitude other than cult-like.

Just another example of the slavish devotion I am sick of seeing.

This has run its course.

Time for the OFFICIAL ****Donald Trump versus Tim Scott*** thread..

CREAg87 said:

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A bizarre stance and thing to to say...basically, you can run but don't ever say a negative thing about the almighty one. Also, DeSantis OWES TRUMP. I don't know how you can describe this attitude other than cult-like.

Just another example of the slavish devotion I am sick of seeing.

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The other weird comment was how he said he needs to "show respect to Trump" and act like Vivek. Rubin does a pretty good job of hitting back on that and calling out Vivek as a Trump lackey. Mainly though the idea that Trump can lie and say the nastiest and most personal things about DeSantis but if DeSantis has the audacity to disagree with Trump on a policy position it's "disrespecting him" is pretty amazing.

The other thing was Kirk admitted that DeSantis is the best Governor in the country and that he has governed as a strong conservative. The only example he could point to was the lack of clarity on Ukraine which is awfully weak considering DeSantis has discussed that in detail and Trump has been all over the board. Once again though, it's hyper critical of DeSantis and Trump gets a pass on everything.

Rubin also trapped him on the Ryan/Rove garbage and used the quote from DeSantis about how he has nothing to do with them and hasn't. The response from Kirk is "Well, Fox is super DeSantis friendly and Ryan sits on the Board of Fox!" Rubin mentioned the Baier interview but he missed an opportunity by not talking about Hannity or Maria or any of the others that basically wear MAGA hats on their shows.

Then he went on to criticize DeSantis for "making his campaign about policy" but tried to talk about how the tone and vibe and feels were somehow different "with the base". Well, you know when a guy like Kirk is coming on day after day either lying or allowing others to lie and your evidence is feels that's going to happen.

Personally I think Kirk is nervous because he has gone so in the tank for Trump and people didn't take his TPUSA event as anything but a Trump rally. He has lost his credibility and is going to have a hell of a time getting it back, I don't know that he can.

When the most important qualification you have for a candidate is loyalty to Trump and showing Trump "respect" that's beyond pathetic. Trump is not a freaking King.

Gotta be honest, I don't listen to Charlie Kirk (gasp, the horror, I know), but just from that clip he seems like a hypocritical Trump-apologist who can't argue with facts so he's always trying to shift the conversation when confronted with them.

Agreed. Kirk and some others have really painted themselves into a corner- either stay with Trump and go down if he goes down or face the wrath of his most obsessive fans if you "reject" him and not endorse a candidate until after the primaries.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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Gotta be honest, I don't listen to Charlie Kirk (gasp, the horror, I know), but just from that clip he seems like a hypocritical Trump-apologist who can't argue with facts so he's always trying to shift the conversation when confronted with them.

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I mean this was Kirk interviewing DeSantis just a few months ago before he announced. It's just amazing how he turned.

I have listened to him in quite some time because of the undying trump loyalty. Im ok with trump if he's the only one who can beat the democrats but it's obvious that isn't true. The lord obvious that becomes, Kirk and this like him get more and more defensive.

I just want to tell these people: it's ok if you love trump. He did some good things. No one is trying to take that from you or him on this side of the aisle. Now it's time to judge the candidates in 2024 for who they are and what they can accomplish. If you take a good look at desantis's record and truly come away thinking trump is better, then fine. But we're not hearing that. The only reasoning we're hearing (outside of the rove/Ryan lies) is that he should have waited his turn. But "waiting his turn" can easily hand over a super majority to the Dems and 28 will be too late.

I think you hit on what I've been trying to put my finger on for a while...."defensive".

The vast majority of Trump support just seems defensive. That's all there is to it. Just defensiveness.
Lashing out with retaliatory accusations, blatant lies, insults, or just simple troll drive-bys.

Convince me based on logic and in a substantive manner how Trump will beat whatever Dem candidate gets nominated. Not based on feelings or simply "Dems suck! Biden's senile! Newsome is a commie! How could anyone vote for them!".

My concern about DeSantis is I'm just not sure the Disney stuff and the now the slavery curriculum stuff is playing to voters who really hadn't heard much about DeSantis before now.

If they were unfamiliar with him before those stories became front page news that might explain why he's not polling better, perhaps?

(FTR: The Disney stuff is stupid and DeSantis was legally on solid grund doing what e did. And actual curriculum story is grossly misstated. But what I know and think isn't the issue with those other voters just now learning about him.)

aggiehawg said:

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My concern about DeSantis is I'm just not sure the Disney stuff and the now the slavery curriculum stuff is playing to voters who really hadn't heard much about DeSantis before now.

If they were unfamiliar with him before those stories became front page news that might explain why he's not polling better, perhaps?

(FTR: The Disney stuff is stupid and DeSantis was legally on solid grund doing what e did. And actual curriculum story is grossly misstated. But what I know and think isn't the issue with those other voters just now learning about him.)

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Agree. Those are absolutely legit issues he needs to get out in front of, loudly and repeatedly. And I think those likely will be the issues that harm him the most, because most voters do not do their research. They simply rely on the media to tell them what to think about a candidate. So Desantis needs to go straight to the media and get the actual truth out there in as many MSM sources as possible. Like Rubin in the clip above said, he needs to go on any and every interview he can, friendly and enemy territory.

Remember who put Fauci in charge of Covid response policy in 2020. Donald Trump did. pic.twitter.com/AUSJcfXCH6

— Max-a-Lago (@MaxNordau) July 24, 2023

On the Disney issue, because I'm not really in the know on the slavery curriculum, I said long ago, I think it is a bad move politically.

But he is doing the right thing.!! I get why some moderate swing voters may not like it, but for conservatives, he is taking on Disney, knowing how potentially politically dangerous it is, should be a huge plus for DeSantis!

FL_Ag1998 said:

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I think you hit on what I've been trying to put my finger on for a while...."defensive".

The vast majority of Trump support just seems defensive. That's all there is to it. Just defensiveness.
Lashing out with retaliatory accusations, blatant lies, insults, or just simple troll drive-bys.

Convince me based on logic and in a substantive manner how Trump will beat whatever Dem candidate gets nominated. Not based on feelings or simply "Dems suck! Biden's senile! Newsome is a commie! How could anyone vote for them!".

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The best analogy I have right now is that of your friend who is dating someone and you know they could do much better. It doesn't matter how much you try to tell them they can (and should) do better. They have to come to that realization themselves.

Im Gipper said:

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On the Disney issue, because I'm not really in the know on the slavery curriculum, I said long ago, I think it is a bad move politically.

But he is doing the right thing.!! I get why some moderate swing voters may not like it, but for conservatives, he is taking on Disney, knowing how potentially politically dangerous it is, should be a huge plus for DeSantis!

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In the primaries,

I am looking to the general, hence the uncertainty.

aggiehawg said:

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My concern about DeSantis is I'm just not sure the Disney stuff and the now the slavery curriculum stuff is playing to voters who really hadn't heard much about DeSantis before now.

If they were unfamiliar with him before those stories became front page news that might explain why he's not polling better, perhaps?

(FTR: The Disney stuff is stupid and DeSantis was legally on solid grund doing what e did. And actual curriculum story is grossly misstated. But what I know and think isn't the issue with those other voters just now learning about him.)

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He is and if given a chance in the General it will be even more apparent. Unlike Trump DeSantis does his homework up front, He WANTS to have those discussions and to fight because he has the high ground.

I know you are well informed on Disney legally but he has also turned the general public against them. Their theme parks are hurting and their movies are tanking. Their CEO is admitting it was a mistake to get involved in politics in FL. Even Trump and Vivek who came out saying DeSantis was making a mistake are basically quiet on it now because they are winning issues and prove DeSantis can fight and win.

On the new slavery stuff DeSantis had his boxes checked. The curriculum is thorough and certainly doesn't apologize for slavery in any way. It was also developed by an All Black set of scholars who are now out there defending the curriculum and denouncing Harris.

"This is probably the most rigorous African American studies curriculum I have ever seen!"

"This is the best of the best, created by African American scholars... Kamala Harris is either dumb and didn't read anything about it, or she knows the truth and has decided to lie to the… pic.twitter.com/ls9Pb1a7fF

— Never Back Down (@NvrBackDown24) July 24, 2023

It's not the Left that is the problem it is the Trump folks that are too scared to fight or they want to just use the Left's narratives to tear DeSantis down. It's gross. They want this election to be about Trump and revenge and that's a loser. If it is about issues that's a winner. People want a strong economy. People are worried about the Border. People don't like the Grooming and DEI and ESG. The Kirk interview is a great example where he literally struggles mightily to find any policy he doesn't agree with DeSantis on and he complements his effectiveness so he falls back to mood and feeling and phantoms like Rove/Chamber of Commerce/RINO/Establishment/Bush whatever because he thinks a "tone" of something he said kind of sounds like them.

I am so tired of Republicans having the high ground on issues but being too afraid to fight. When they do they win almost every time but they are terrified to make an argument and stick with it and Trump is one of the worst. He will compromise away on anything and he fears backlash. DeSantis calls out the bullies and beats them back up with facts. Just stand up and fight and you can win, if you don't you know you will lose. I am so tired of just ceding ground out of fear, especially when those who fight back have been winning. Just ask Bud Light.

Only thing is though DeSantis may not be able to beat both the Left and Trump if they continue to collude. When I see a very intelligent person like yourself still on the fence it just staggers me. Still it is a LONG way before the primaries and this thing will continue to evolve.

I will say this though. If Trump wins the nomination I will absolutely vote for him. I also fully expect him to lose, maybe by 10 points, and to cost the GOP at least 6 Senate seats and the House along with probably getting a couple of GOP Senators to go ahead and leave the Party. That will leave the door wide open for Stacking the Supreme Court and then anything the Dems want to do and we will have nothing to stop it. The last big card they have is when they finally pull the plug on Biden likely for a Newsom/Whitmer ticket and you can just adios your freedom.

Wait. I thought Barnes was a big Trump supporter? (I don't really like Barnes much, BTW.)

Quote:

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It's not the Left that is the problem it is the Trump folks that are too scared to fight or they want to just use the Left's narratives to tear DeSantis down. It's gross. They want this election to be about Trump and revenge and that's a loser. If it is about issues that's a winner. People want a strong economy. People are worried about the Border. People don't like the Grooming and DEI and ESG. The Kirk interview is a great example where he literally struggles mightily to find any policy he doesn't agree with DeSantis on and he complements his effectiveness so he falls back to mood and feeling and phantoms like Rove/Chamber of Commerce/RINO/Establishment/Bush whatever because he thinks a "tone" of something he said kind of sounds like them.

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That is where I'm concerned for prospects in the general. I am just not convinced that independents care that much about those issues.

aggiehawg said:

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Wait. I thought Barnes was a big Trump supporter? (I don't really like Barnes much, BTW.)

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Exactly, Barnes is a hypocrite.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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It's not the Left that is the problem it is the Trump folks that are too scared to fight or they want to just use the Left's narratives to tear DeSantis down. It's gross. They want this election to be about Trump and revenge and that's a loser. If it is about issues that's a winner. People want a strong economy. People are worried about the Border. People don't like the Grooming and DEI and ESG. The Kirk interview is a great example where he literally struggles mightily to find any policy he doesn't agree with DeSantis on and he complements his effectiveness so he falls back to mood and feeling and phantoms like Rove/Chamber of Commerce/RINO/Establishment/Bush whatever because he thinks a "tone" of something he said kind of sounds like them.

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That is where I'm concerned for prospects in the general. I am just not convinced that independents care that much about those issues.

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I think Independents in general don't care that much, on that we agree. What they will care about is that DeSantis is a low drama and effective governance guy that is a different path. They know who Trump is and they know who Biden is, DeSantis gives them a new option. They may not like everything about him but he is a nice, attractive guy that seems really smart and has a nice family. He was right on Covid policy and everyone seems to be moving to Florida. Independents don't really vote on issues outside of the Economy because they are split, they tend to vote on good governance or who seems like a nicer person. That's why DeSantis won. That's why Kemp won. That's why Youngkin won. They are hard people to hate personally, and let's not forget that DeSantis has a secret weapon with his wife and cute he little kids he will have with him all over the place.

It also is the best insulation against Newsom because there is no way that the Dems are winning a Florida vs California battle. They can absolutely win a Trump vs Newsom battle though because Trump has made his entire campaign about Biden and The Swamp and Newsom has no direct connection to any of that from an Independent perspective (obviously he does to anyone that knows him but that's not really relevant). If it is Trump v Newsom I don't see how Trump wins that as Newsom goes on TV with his smooth style and calm demeanor and lies his ass off. Trump will get embarrassed by a guy like Newsom in a debate because Newsom is not brain dead nor is he as unlikable as Hillary. He will get Trump riled up and just shake his head like he is talking to a crazy person.

The other big problem Trump has is even though people may agree he has been mistreated or that the Dems are terrible they are just TIRED. They have been hearing about this stuff day after day for years. To the die hards they can never get enough but most people just want it all to go away and to deal with problems that impact their lives not whether or not Trump said or didn't say the right things on Jan 6 or if the election was stolen or the rest. Oh, and make no mistake that is ALL the media will ask Trump about and he will be more than happy to talk about it nonstop. If you think Independents don't care about Groomers or what is being taught in schools you should ask them how much they want to talk about 2020 some more. A lot would vote for someone else just for the promise that they don't have to see Donald Trump on TV day after day. I think you know in your heart that's true even if it isn't fair.