We've become a society where culture is rewriting policy…

And if you disagree with said culture, and thus policy, well then you must be a racist and/or a bigot…

I agree that the culture war might have to be the front fought first…

Funky Winkerbean said:

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The qualifications and vision in regards to DeSantis is not his issue. He is very much qualified and worthy of all our votes. His problem right now is timing. The core of the Republican Party is pissed off over what's happened to Trump (read us) and wants the "outsider" DJT to tear a new ******* into the Democrats. We are tired of swamp, RINO, aisle crossing limp dicked politicians not doing their jobs. Agree or disagree on what Trump did, but you can't deny he got things done (at least before getting neutered). The thought of a pissed off, 2nd term Trump is exciting in regards to policy, and orgasmic in regards to politics. He brings out the worst in the left, which given how criminal they've acted, I want them shamed and prosecuted for that. And honestly, if it's DeSantis or Trump we all win. But at this point and time my dream scenario is 4 more with Trump, then 8 more with DeSantis.

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Trump did jack **** before, with power, against them. He will have zero power and even fewer (more lesser, for Tanya) friends.

I want a fighter, that wins. That's DeSantis and never has been Trump.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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The point is trump is not even interested in actually accomplishing anything

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Wow. How many 80 year olds you know that sacrificed millions in personal gains, allowed themselves to get bludgeoned on social media, become a whipping post for the MSM and still spend more money trying to get their job back…to do nothing. Your TDS is terminal.

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He's a spiteful narcissistic megalomaniac. He wants his name, in lights. He gives zero ****s about winning to fix things, at this point. That much is clear from his lefty attacks on conservative policies from Desantis.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/desantis-and-trump-take-different-positions-over-whether-house-should-impeach-ag-merrick-garland

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Trump was asked on the "The Howie Carr Show" on Monday if he thinks that Garland should be impeached, and he declined to get involved.

"Well, I'm gonna leave that up to them," Trump said of the Republican-controlled House. "I'm surprised at Merrick Garland, because I know he's a liberal guy. But I thought that, I am so surprised that he's doing what he's doing. I'm shocked, actually, that he's not saying, 'Look, I have an obligation to my country.' And even if he did 10%, it's earth shattering. But he's really protecting Biden, and you can't really protect them at this point."

DeSantis was asked by Fox News on Tuesday if he would support Republican efforts to impeach Garland "because some Republicans believe the Justice Department has been using its resources to attack a political adversary" and he said that he would support the effort.

"Well, look, if a cabinet member's behaving like Garland, then they're opening themselves up to it. So, I think that they should pursue this," DeSantis said. "I think some of the decisions that have been made or action, or lack of action, you know, are just unbelievable that that could be the case."

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His family's net worth went up during his tenure

Funky Winkerbean said:

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You can't compare 1980 and '84 to today, it was a different world and we were in the Cold War.

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Baloney. One theme that has resonated from every one of you DeSantites is rather or not policy is "conservative " enough, or at all. Anything Trump has done that doesn't fit the mold of "conservative ", y'all immediately label him a RINO or even a liberal. Using that metric, Reagan wouldn't pass your muster. And if that logic had been followed in 1980, we would've missed out on our greatest president. I so want fiscal conservative policy, but I'm wise enough to know it won't ever happen to any meaningful degree. Our electorate can't stomach it, and our politicians lack the courage or political will to sell it. This is why I've deviated slightly from my typical political wants, to one focusing on the culture war. The electorate must change and that is the front to fight it on

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Sorry but in 1980 we had a very real Cold War going on and we were losing. Vietnam was just a few years prior. We had double digit interest rates, inflation, and unemployment. The USSR was very much a threat to us and had expanded their influence significantly while we were weakening. That was THE issue along with the economy.

More than that though in 1980 the choice was Bush or Reagan and Reagan (who was clearly more conservative) won. Your trying to make a false argument that there was some other even better and more conservative choice who was as accomplished as Reagan (successful Governor of California, made a real run at Ford in '76, and his iconic "Time for Choosing" speech is still considered the beginning of the modern conservative movement). There wasn't.

The question is always picking the most conservative candidate with a chance of winning. That was easily Reagan in '80 and it is easily DeSantis now. We had some other solid conservatives run in the past that lost (Cruz, both Paul's, Pat Buchanan) but they didn't win the nomination.

I don't think Trump is a RINO but I do think he is a Populist who is not a true conservative who is guided by conservative principles. DeSantis is.

TRM said:

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https://www.dailywire.com/news/desantis-and-trump-take-different-positions-over-whether-house-should-impeach-ag-merrick-garland

Quote:

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Trump was asked on the "The Howie Carr Show" on Monday if he thinks that Garland should be impeached, and he declined to get involved.

"Well, I'm gonna leave that up to them," Trump said of the Republican-controlled House. "I'm surprised at Merrick Garland, because I know he's a liberal guy. But I thought that, I am so surprised that he's doing what he's doing. I'm shocked, actually, that he's not saying, 'Look, I have an obligation to my country.' And even if he did 10%, it's earth shattering. But he's really protecting Biden, and you can't really protect them at this point."

DeSantis was asked by Fox News on Tuesday if he would support Republican efforts to impeach Garland "because some Republicans believe the Justice Department has been using its resources to attack a political adversary" and he said that he would support the effort.

"Well, look, if a cabinet member's behaving like Garland, then they're opening themselves up to it. So, I think that they should pursue this," DeSantis said. "I think some of the decisions that have been made or action, or lack of action, you know, are just unbelievable that that could be the case."

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G******, at this point Trump's ramblings aren't much more coherent than Biden's.

That's why Trump does more harm than good. The FBI interfered with the election. But Trump is incapable of explaining that to the public in a concise, persuasive argument.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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The point is trump is not even interested in actually accomplishing anything

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Wow. How many 80 year olds you know that sacrificed millions in personal gains, allowed themselves to get bludgeoned on social media, become a whipping post for the MSM and still spend more money trying to get their job back…to do nothing. Your TDS is terminal.

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Does this sound like someone who is interested in anything but pursuing personal grudges against people who dared to run against him?

Trump just released a bizarre statement. Not sure if it makes much sense.

"Many say, don't punch down when talking about people like Chris Sununu or sloppy Chris Christie or Ada Hutchinson. I call him Ada, not Asa, because of certain reasons or others, but sometimes it's… pic.twitter.com/yplXDlZhcb

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) June 22, 2023

Funky Winkerbean said:

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You can't compare 1980 and '84 to today, it was a different world and we were in the Cold War.

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Baloney. One theme that has resonated from every one of you DeSantites is rather or not policy is "conservative " enough, or at all. Anything Trump has done that doesn't fit the mold of "conservative ", y'all immediately label him a RINO or even a liberal. Using that metric, Reagan wouldn't pass your muster. And if that logic had been followed in 1980, we would've missed out on our greatest president. I so want fiscal conservative policy, but I'm wise enough to know it won't ever happen to any meaningful degree. Our electorate can't stomach it, and our politicians lack the courage or political will to sell it. This is why I've deviated slightly from my typical political wants, to one focusing on the culture war. The electorate must change and that is the front to fight it on

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I'm sorry, but Trump is no Reagan. Go back and listen to what Reagan talked about, all the time. He was an ambassador for conservatism. Yes, he worked with the liberals of the time, but worked from a basis of fiscal and social conservatism, and in his wake he left a country that was shifted to the right for most of a generation. What does Trump give us? What does the country look like after the last 8 years of Trump as the front and center? It's not an ideological shift to sanity, it's all about him personally.

I get that it gives you some feel goods to have someone who is the embodiment of us vs the system, but Trump is no Jesus... he's way more like Samson. Samson was no godly man and a horrible leader, and through his own very deep issues, he brought down a heap of trouble on himself and his country. He did bring down the Philistines, but only because he took them with him in his own demise. Samson was not a worthy leader (even then he was able to be used for good, despite himself).

I want to be in a place, in 8 more years, where we can say this was a turning point for the ideas, not a man's personality. The country will be in a much better place if Trump is NOT the leader. We need someone who can change the mood of the country to where it is WILL be acceptable to the electorate to act conservatively. I don't know if RD is the right man for that, but I know for sure Trump IS NOT.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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You can't compare 1980 and '84 to today, it was a different world and we were in the Cold War.

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Baloney. One theme that has resonated from every one of you DeSantites is rather or not policy is "conservative " enough, or at all. Anything Trump has done that doesn't fit the mold of "conservative ", y'all immediately label him a RINO or even a liberal. Using that metric, Reagan wouldn't pass your muster. And if that logic had been followed in 1980, we would've missed out on our greatest president. I so want fiscal conservative policy, but I'm wise enough to know it won't ever happen to any meaningful degree. Our electorate can't stomach it, and our politicians lack the courage or political will to sell it. This is why I've deviated slightly from my typical political wants, to one focusing on the culture war. The electorate must change and that is the front to fight it on

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The more I think about it, the more I love that you brought up Reagan. I can look up countless clips of Reagan explaining why the direction of the country needed to go his way, in an inspirational manner... please point to me something I can bookmark, FROM TRUMP, that I can bring up in 20 years and show my grandkids what the Trump years were about.

It can be a speech, a tweet, a "truth", whatever you want to bring up, but I want something that I can point to, after a generation has passed, that can be said to embody... correctly... the basis of a Trump presidency. Something where I don't have to look up who was a Senator, Attorney General, or some Prosecutor in NY to explain to them who he is talking about.

This is why it is important... you can point to Reagan as a great president, and you can hear why, from his own words and perspective and it makes sense why it worked. That changes the landscape forever. Did Trump do some good things as president? Sure did. In 20 years, can we explain why they were good, even from his perspective? Not likely, because those things didn't last and they weren't based in principles.

“Politicians are ALL TALK, NO ACTION!" https://t.co/gQdUFiUQVE pic.twitter.com/eZ3q7rojmi

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) June 28, 2023

One wouid think that being caught in a lie would be cause to stop the lie. Not for Team Trump!

Just keep repeating it!

You're really doing this again after getting papered with Community Notes last time? The *earlier* version of the First Step Act that DeSantis voted for was not a jailbreak bill. The final version was.

RECEIPTS:
In May 2018, then-Senator Kamala Harris wrote an open letter… https://t.co/JyxnkSOkYZ pic.twitter.com/ZwClPWdCcx

— Christina Pushaw 🐊 🇺🇸 (@ChristinaPushaw) June 28, 2023

Phatbob said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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You can't compare 1980 and '84 to today, it was a different world and we were in the Cold War.

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Baloney. One theme that has resonated from every one of you DeSantites is rather or not policy is "conservative " enough, or at all. Anything Trump has done that doesn't fit the mold of "conservative ", y'all immediately label him a RINO or even a liberal. Using that metric, Reagan wouldn't pass your muster. And if that logic had been followed in 1980, we would've missed out on our greatest president. I so want fiscal conservative policy, but I'm wise enough to know it won't ever happen to any meaningful degree. Our electorate can't stomach it, and our politicians lack the courage or political will to sell it. This is why I've deviated slightly from my typical political wants, to one focusing on the culture war. The electorate must change and that is the front to fight it on

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The more I think about it, the more I love that you brought up Reagan. I can look up countless clips of Reagan explaining why the direction of the country needed to go his way, in an inspirational manner... please point to me something I can bookmark, FROM TRUMP, that I can bring up in 20 years and show my grandkids what the Trump years were about.

It can be a speech, a tweet, a "truth", whatever you want to bring up, but I want something that I can point to, after a generation has passed, that can be said to embody... correctly... the basis of a Trump presidency. Something where I don't have to look up who was a Senator, Attorney General, or some Prosecutor in NY to explain to them who he is talking about.

This is why it is important... you can point to Reagan as a great president, and you can hear why, from his own words and perspective and it makes sense why it worked. That changes the landscape forever. Did Trump do some good things as president? Sure did. In 20 years, can we explain why they were good, even from his perspective? Not likely, because those things didn't last and they weren't based in principles.

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I could list several but this speech is literally what is considered the start of the modern conservative movement and does as good of a job explaining those principles as you will find. The fact this was 60 years ago and so much of it still rings true is amazing. Think of how different the world would be had they "chosen" Goldwater instead of LBJ. The concerns he brought up about the growth of bureaucracy and the power of government that he could see that were ignored are just amazing. In their wildest nightmares they couldn't fathom the government being the size it is now and with the power it has now and what has become acceptable. It's pretty incredible.

Donald X. Kendi pic.twitter.com/s5PzZBh3da

— Adam B. Coleman, President of Aintblackistan (@wrong_speak) June 28, 2023

BigBrother said:

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Donald X. Kendi pic.twitter.com/s5PzZBh3da

— Adam B. Coleman, President of Aintblackistan (@wrong_speak) June 28, 2023

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Geez, More Idiocracy level stuff from trump.

DeSantis visited the Texas border on Monday...

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/26/ron-desantis-texas-border-mexico/

I would think that would have been a pretty big story...

Didn't get much play at all, apparently...

FireAg said:

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DeSantis visited the Texas border on Monday...

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/26/ron-desantis-texas-border-mexico/

I would think that would have been a pretty big story...

Didn't get much play at all, apparently...

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It was discussed here. Most of the media is not going to cover it because they want Trump as the candidate. You should not judge a candidate by how much the mainstream media covers him or her.

Truly, you sound just like a concerned moderate in 2016 except replace Trump with DeSantis. Nothing anyone says to you gets through. Just admit you're an only and forever Trumper and move on. You have no interest in voting for anyone but Trump.

I'm not convinced RD can do enough to reverse Trump's inertia and take the primary...

Time will tell, but he's running the most stealth campaign I've ever seen from a would be frontrunner...

But I am saying it now...he needs some momentum to get large numbers of folks to look his way...

His stealth campaign has raised more money than any... such an odd shtick and opinion.

Schtick? You're part of the problem...your dismissiveness is why good, educated people can't have honest conversations about topics that they disagree on...

Thankfully, there's an ignore feature...

Rapier108 said:

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FireAg said:

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DeSantis visited the Texas border on Monday...

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/26/ron-desantis-texas-border-mexico/

I would think that would have been a pretty big story...

Didn't get much play at all, apparently...

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It was discussed here. Most of the media is not going to cover it because they want Trump as the candidate. You should not judge a candidate by how much the mainstream media covers him or her.

Truly, you sound just like a concerned moderate in 2016 except replace Trump with DeSantis. Nothing anyone says to you gets through. Just admit you're an only and forever Trumper and move on. You have no interest in voting for anyone but Trump.

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Have we found the very first concerned MAGA in the wild?

FireAg said:

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Schtick? You're part of the problem...your dismissiveness is why good, educated people can't have honest conversations about topics that they disagree on...

Thankfully, there's an ignore feature...

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Yes, shtick... you come on here and lecture folks about the problems you perceive with their candidate of choice while ignoring the problems with your own - all the while using the "I'm just being objective..." line.

Yawn.

FireAg said:

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DeSantis visited the Texas border on Monday...

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/26/ron-desantis-texas-border-mexico/

I would think that would have been a pretty big story...

Didn't get much play at all, apparently...

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It got about what you would expect. Nothing really new except for the deputizing comments and the shoot on sight for Cartel members going through the fence. DeSantis is strong on the Border and has listed it as his top priority along with the Economy/opening up Drilling and a major overhaul of the Deep State.

Still that's just not a big national story this far out from the election. It matters to people paying attention but thah t's not many people. Same thing I have been saying here for a while.

Here is a good illustration of the larger point. DeSantis is essentially duplicating Obama's 2008 Campaign against Hillary in '08. Heavy focus on ground game early against a candidate with much higher name ID. Here is an article from August of '07 that sounds like you could almost just change the names and it would be the same story today.

Clinton opens up widening lead over Obama and others in new poll

The only caution I would offer...

Obama was a very popular, rising star...


...wait for it...



...BLACK guy who folks thought would have a great shot at being the first "black" president...

He had a certain, unique "curb appeal", if you will...and I'm not sure DeSantis will have that same draw from the regular Joe's wanting to elect the first "minority" as POTUS just to say we did it...

FireAg said:

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The only caution I would offer...

Obama was a very popular, rising star...


...wait for it...



...BLACK guy who folks thought would have a great shot at being the first "black" president...

He had a certain, unique "curb appeal", if you will...and I'm not sure DeSantis will have that same draw from the regular Joe's wanting to elect the first "minority" as POTUS just to say we did it...

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True. He also had zero record and was literally the most liberal Senator in the Senate with what votes he did have. Most assumed he was just running for name recognition and a future race. No one is really questioning DeSantis' qualifications or ability, he's was the leading Republican voice really after Trump left the WH in battling Covid. They are very different candidates.

This is about strategy and tactics. What I am saying is the strategy was the same and it is sound. It's actually not that unlike what Trump did in some ways in '16, though Trump was able to get a lot of free media. No one had seen rallies like he held before and he had an energized base knocking doors for him. He's not doing that this time and the energy is very different, he is the big name now. Trump is playing defense not offense.

More details on how DeSantis plans to deal with Mexico to get the to cooperate.

DeSantis will use tariffs to get Mexico to help us secure our southern border.

“If the Mexican government was truly a good partner, you would not have that many millions of people showing up on our southern border. They absolutely need to do more. We need to be willing to use… pic.twitter.com/eALGKe2Gcw

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) June 28, 2023

Tariffs aren't "conservative ". Right? I'm sure Rob will have to vote third party now.

FireAg said:

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I'm not convinced RD can do enough to reverse Trump's inertia and take the primary...

Time will tell, but he's running the most stealth campaign I've ever seen from a would be frontrunner...

But I am saying it now...he needs some momentum to get large numbers of folks to look his way...

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If he's raising money and meeting donors he's probably not worried. He's putting together the pieces to win the primary. Nothing else matters. Trump's trying to bait him into a trap that's meaningless before the primary.

We agree on that...Trump wins when the opposition takes the bait and slings the mud back...

FireAg said:

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DeSantis visited the Texas border on Monday...

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/26/ron-desantis-texas-border-mexico/

I would think that would have been a pretty big story...

Didn't get much play at all, apparently...

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You're right, guess he should have invented a dumb nickname for the Mexican president and sent out a bunch of tweets about it.

FireAg said:

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I'm not convinced RD can do enough to reverse Trump's inertia and take the primary...

Time will tell, but he's running the most stealth campaign I've ever seen from a would be frontrunner...

But I am saying it now...he needs some momentum to get large numbers of folks to look his way...

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Your first point seems to be accurate. Trump is possibly the most famous person in the world. Not many people on the planet that can get more coverage than him.

Your second point is where I don't agree. The CEO of BlackRock just talked about how DeSantis punked him and he felt "ashamed". Trump talks about RD non-stop obviously. Elon Musk has talked about him a few times. He's about to be live-interviewed by Tucker. Megan Kelly is doing her pathetic insults to get him to come on her show. His endorsements and donations are enormous. It's the equivalent of boxing body shots in the early rounds.

The only problem his campaign is having, MAGA is being manipulated to more fervent support due to the indictments. In their quest to fight the media and the system, MAGA has inadvertently decided to let the media and the system pick their candidate.

If you notice, there are no direct attacks on RD. They're all indirect attacks.

"He's funded by establishment." All former Trump donors.
"He is establishment." Point out what policies indicate that.
"Soros endorsed him." I mean, this is why Kari Lake is pathetic.

Twitter isn't entirely real life, but just go out and search Trump supporters. They are making fools of themselves.

And all the while, Trump attacks him from the left.