Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Dies Irae said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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How is it unreasonable to expect people to have a good reason for nullifying a lifetime contract?

Just curious.

---

I don't give a crap what their reason is. Quit caring what other adults do.

---

If other adults are crapping into my pool am I allowed to care?

---

How freaking stupid is this. Are you really comparing what two adults, whom you don't even know and will never meet, do with their love life to someone vandalizing your personal property.

Try harder next time.

---

We aren't free-floating atoms. We live in society. The negative impacts of families splitting apart affects us all.

Your libertarianism is like a scientist testing something in a vacuum and expecting the same results in the real world. The downside of no fault divorce is far worse than the downside of enforcing marriage. You made your vows, now live up to them.

---

Nah. Worry about taking care of your family. I'll worry about mine.

I have no plans on ever getting divorced nor did I cheat on my wife like one of the others banging their drum around here. So don't talk to me about living up to my vows.

---

Good for you. You made those vows publicly, and the public has an interest in holding you to them. Part of taking care of my family is ensuring that the society in which we live is healthy. A society of no-fault divorce and broken families is unhealthy.

Sorry that you don't live on a desert island. You made the choice to get married. The public has every right and should hold you to account for the vows you made.

---

Holy crap. You really think the public has ownership and / or a controlling say in my marriage.

You uber orthodox guys really should just start your own country. Everybody wins, well except the women in your country because you know they won't be able to vote or be able to leave a marriage without the "council" approving it.

---

Marriage is a public institution. By definition, the public has an interest in it. If you didn't believe that, you wouldn't have jumped through the hoops to legally validate your marriage.

Your "won't you think of the women" bull**** is not going to convince anyone with over a room temperature IQ. Men are equally impacted by a divorce, and men often initiate no fault divorces.

---

How much space do have in your head? Between this thread and the other thread.

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

Quote:

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Maybe the answer is before the marriage, prepare a detailed prenup. If anything, it would force people to have some tough conversations before marriage.

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Or if not a detailed prenup, have each married couple have on file the answer to one question:

Name one person whom you mutually trust to arbitrate your settlement if you get divorced.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Dies Irae said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

How is it unreasonable to expect people to have a good reason for nullifying a lifetime contract?

Just curious.

---

I don't give a crap what their reason is. Quit caring what other adults do.

---

If other adults are crapping into my pool am I allowed to care?

---

How freaking stupid is this. Are you really comparing what two adults, whom you don't even know and will never meet, do with their love life to someone vandalizing your personal property.

Try harder next time.

---

We aren't free-floating atoms. We live in society. The negative impacts of families splitting apart affects us all.

Your libertarianism is like a scientist testing something in a vacuum and expecting the same results in the real world. The downside of no fault divorce is far worse than the downside of enforcing marriage. You made your vows, now live up to them.

---

Nah. Worry about taking care of your family. I'll worry about mine.

I have no plans on ever getting divorced nor did I cheat on my wife like one of the others banging their drum around here. So don't talk to me about living up to my vows.

---

Good for you. You made those vows publicly, and the public has an interest in holding you to them. Part of taking care of my family is ensuring that the society in which we live is healthy. A society of no-fault divorce and broken families is unhealthy.

Sorry that you don't live on a desert island. You made the choice to get married. The public has every right and should hold you to account for the vows you made.

---

Holy crap. You really think the public has ownership and / or a controlling say in my marriage.

You uber orthodox guys really should just start your own country. Everybody wins, well except the women in your country because you know they won't be able to vote or be able to leave a marriage without the "council" approving it.

---

Marriage is a public institution. By definition, the public has an interest in it. If you didn't believe that, you wouldn't have jumped through the hoops to legally validate your marriage.

Your "won't you think of the women" bull**** is not going to convince anyone with over a room temperature IQ. Men are equally impacted by a divorce, and men often initiate no fault divorces.

---

How much space do have in your head? Between this thread and the other thread.

---

Introspection would benefit you before you start casting stones. You're arguing for tearing apart families and damaging children and murdering human beings out of some convoluted interpretation of bodily autonomy.

Seems like you're the one with a little room to spare.

Edit: I do appreciate that your last resort is ad hominem attacks when you've run out of ways to justify your terrible beliefs.

So. It's like a lot of space, isn't it.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

---

There's not much logic involved when your only belief is "I should be able to do whatever I want because freedom." It's the political philosophy of a 3 year old.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You may not care, but there may come a time when someone who has to determine your next of kin or family DOES care, and your not legally married girlfriend will not be included.

Texas GOP does some dumb **** with their party platform.

But what do you expect from an entity who chooses to give the Dems equal run in the state legislature? Idiots.

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

---

Where did I say that? In fact, I said the exact opposite in my very first sentence… "find a life partner".

"Legally married" has zero importance to me other than it makes it easier for tax purposes and things like insurance.

The government didn't allow me to get married. My wife and I made a pledge before God when we got married, the government wasn't involved or consulted. If the government nullified my marriage license tomorrow, I'd still be married.

Were enslaved blacks not married when they jumped the broom and committed themselves for life to each other and God? I mean, if you asked the government they were not married, weren't allowed to. But I would be willing to bet you would agree that they were married. So it would seem that getting a useless piece of paper filed by a low level county clerk really isn't that important in the grand scheme of what constitutes a marriage.

But that's the best i can explain it as a 3 year old.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

Yes. The institution of monogamous marriage which propelled humanity into developing a stable society is stupid bull*****

It took thousands of years for humans to develop alot of these institutions and experiment with them to figure out what built a stable society that allowed us to technologically progress to get to where we are today.

But let's just throw all those thousands of years away because you think it's just bull*****

Yeah...u know better than all your successful ancestors.

That's not unjustified arrogance at all.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You may not care, but there may come a time when someone who has to determine your next of kin or family DOES care, and your not legally married girlfriend will not be included.

---

Nothing that can't be addressed with a legally filed contract to ensure that your and you not legally married girlfriends directives are followed.

As soon as same-sex-marriage became legal, government abdicated its moral authority on the religious institution of marriage, as it become merely a civil contract with tax benefits. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's"

The more clear the distinction between civil union and holy matrimony, the better. I don't think God cares what the family court judge says in the divorce decree- your vow wasn't to the state, it was between you, the Lord, and your spouse. So why wring our hands over the state getting out of the marriage business? I'm fine leaving the civil unions to the JP court, because that is all it is.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

Yes. The institution of monogamous marriage which propelled humanity into developing a stable society is stupid bull*****

It took thousands of years for humans to develop alot of these institutions and experiment with them to figure out what built a stable society that allowed us to technologically progress to get to where we are today.

But let's just throw all those thousands of years away because you think it's just bull*****

Yeah...u know better than all your successful ancestors.

That's not unjustified arrogance at all.

---

Literally never said that. I think monogamous lifetime marriage is one of Gods greatest gifts and has profound positive effects on society It's not something that should be entered into lightly nor thrown away at the drop of a hat.

A signed piece of paper endorsed by the government has no bearing on any of things I just mentioned.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of humanity living in stable societies throughout the course of history never had a government issued marriage license.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

---

Where did I say that? In fact, I said the exact opposite in my very first sentence… "find a life partner".

"Legally married" has zero importance to me other than it makes it easier for tax purposes and things like insurance.

The government didn't allow me to get married. My wife and I made a pledge before God when we got married, the government wasn't involved or consulted. If the government nullified my marriage license tomorrow, I'd still be married.

Were enslaved blacks not married when they jumped the broom and committed themselves for life to each other and God? I mean, if you asked the government they were not married, weren't allowed to. But I would be willing to bet you would agree that they were married. So it would seem that getting a useless piece of paper filed by a low level county clerk really isn't that important in the grand scheme of what constitutes a marriage.

But that's the best i can explain it as a 3 year old.

---

I recall having to get a marriage certificate to be married in the Church. I honestly have no idea if there's a way around that. But to end my marriage would require a declaration of nullity which is infinitely harder to get than a divorce if no fault divorce were done away with.

If you entered into a sacramental marriage, why in the world would ending no fault divorce be concerning?

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

---

Where did I say that? In fact, I said the exact opposite in my very first sentence… "find a life partner".

"Legally married" has zero importance to me other than it makes it easier for tax purposes and things like insurance.

The government didn't allow me to get married. My wife and I made a pledge before God when we got married, the government wasn't involved or consulted. If the government nullified my marriage license tomorrow, I'd still be married.

Were enslaved blacks not married when they jumped the broom and committed themselves for life to each other and God? I mean, if you asked the government they were not married, weren't allowed to. But I would be willing to bet you would agree that they were married. So it would seem that getting a useless piece of paper filed by a low level county clerk really isn't that important in the grand scheme of what constitutes a marriage.

But that's the best i can explain it as a 3 year old.

---

I recall having to get a marriage certificate to be married in the Church. I honestly have no idea if there's a way around that. But to end my marriage would require a declaration of nullity which is infinitely harder to get than a divorce if no fault divorce were done away with.

If you entered into a sacramental marriage, why in the world would ending no fault divorce be concerning?

---

I'm not Catholic.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

---

Where did I say that? In fact, I said the exact opposite in my very first sentence… "find a life partner".

"Legally married" has zero importance to me other than it makes it easier for tax purposes and things like insurance.

The government didn't allow me to get married. My wife and I made a pledge before God when we got married, the government wasn't involved or consulted. If the government nullified my marriage license tomorrow, I'd still be married.

Were enslaved blacks not married when they jumped the broom and committed themselves for life to each other and God? I mean, if you asked the government they were not married, weren't allowed to. But I would be willing to bet you would agree that they were married. So it would seem that getting a useless piece of paper filed by a low level county clerk really isn't that important in the grand scheme of what constitutes a marriage.

But that's the best i can explain it as a 3 year old.

---

I recall having to get a marriage certificate to be married in the Church. I honestly have no idea if there's a way around that. But to end my marriage would require a declaration of nullity which is infinitely harder to get than a divorce if no fault divorce were done away with.

If you entered into a sacramental marriage, why in the world would ending no fault divorce be concerning?

---

I'm not Catholic.

---

Do you believe that marriage in indissoluble by definition?

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Dies Irae said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

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How is it unreasonable to expect people to have a good reason for nullifying a lifetime contract?

Just curious.

---

I don't give a crap what their reason is. Quit caring what other adults do.

---

If other adults are crapping into my pool am I allowed to care?

---

How freaking stupid is this. Are you really comparing what two adults, whom you don't even know and will never meet, do with their love life to someone vandalizing your personal property.

Try harder next time.

---

We aren't free-floating atoms. We live in society. The negative impacts of families splitting apart affects us all.

Your libertarianism is like a scientist testing something in a vacuum and expecting the same results in the real world. The downside of no fault divorce is far worse than the downside of enforcing marriage. You made your vows, now live up to them.

---

Nah. Worry about taking care of your family. I'll worry about mine.

I have no plans on ever getting divorced nor did I cheat on my wife like one of the others banging their drum around here. So don't talk to me about living up to my vows.

---

Good for you. You made those vows publicly, and the public has an interest in holding you to them. Part of taking care of my family is ensuring that the society in which we live is healthy. A society of no-fault divorce and broken families is unhealthy.

Sorry that you don't live on a desert island. You made the choice to get married. The public has every right and should hold you to account for the vows you made.

---

Holy crap. You really think the public has ownership and / or a controlling say in my marriage.

You uber orthodox guys really should just start your own country. Everybody wins, well except the women in your country because you know they won't be able to vote or be able to leave a marriage without the "council" approving it.

---

Interesting that you think that women must be able to get divorced in order to be happy.

In Most happiness surveys women today report much lower levels of satisfaction and happiness with their life than women in the 40's and 50's before divorce was prevalent.

Where does declaration of nullify appear in the Cannon?

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

Yes. The institution of monogamous marriage which propelled humanity into developing a stable society is stupid bull*****

It took thousands of years for humans to develop alot of these institutions and experiment with them to figure out what built a stable society that allowed us to technologically progress to get to where we are today.

But let's just throw all those thousands of years away because you think it's just bull*****

Yeah...u know better than all your successful ancestors.

That's not unjustified arrogance at all.

---

Literally never said that. I think monogamous lifetime marriage is one of Gods greatest gifts and has profound positive effects on society It's not something that should be entered into lightly nor thrown away at the drop of a hat.

A signed piece of paper endorsed by the government has no bearing on any of things I just mentioned.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of humanity living in stable societies throughout the course of history never had a government issued marriage license.

---

No...marriages were just culturally and religiously enforced and approved. Those are totally different things.

[Sarcasm]

Bob Lee said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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So if a spouse wants out, they would either have to get the other spouse to agree or prove in court that the other spouse is at fault.

Not good. Recipe for disaster. You can't force people to love each other, so don't try to force people to stay in marriages they want out of.

---

How did people ever survive in marriages before the 1970s? People's attitudes about parent's obligations to their children and to each other have deteriorated so thoroughly in such a short period of time since the legalization of no fault divorce. Children have a right to their mother and father.

---

Yep, and here we are in this rapidly accelerating state of moral decay.
Here's how it all started:
https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-evolution-of-divorce#:~:text=In%201969%2C%20Governor%20Ronald,first%20no%2Dfault%20divorce%20bill.

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Rev03 said:

---

Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

---

You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

---

Where did I say that? In fact, I said the exact opposite in my very first sentence… "find a life partner".

"Legally married" has zero importance to me other than it makes it easier for tax purposes and things like insurance.

The government didn't allow me to get married. My wife and I made a pledge before God when we got married, the government wasn't involved or consulted. If the government nullified my marriage license tomorrow, I'd still be married.

Were enslaved blacks not married when they jumped the broom and committed themselves for life to each other and God? I mean, if you asked the government they were not married, weren't allowed to. But I would be willing to bet you would agree that they were married. So it would seem that getting a useless piece of paper filed by a low level county clerk really isn't that important in the grand scheme of what constitutes a marriage.

But that's the best i can explain it as a 3 year old.

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I recall having to get a marriage certificate to be married in the Church. I honestly have no idea if there's a way around that. But to end my marriage would require a declaration of nullity which is infinitely harder to get than a divorce if no fault divorce were done away with.

If you entered into a sacramental marriage, why in the world would ending no fault divorce be concerning?

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I'm not Catholic.

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Do you believe that marriage in indissoluble by definition?

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No. I don't believe that, again I'm not Catholic.

BearJew13 said:

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Where does declaration of nullify appear in the Cannon?

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1671-1707

Ags4DaWin said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Rev03 said:

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Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

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If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

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Yes. The institution of monogamous marriage which propelled humanity into developing a stable society is stupid bull*****

It took thousands of years for humans to develop alot of these institutions and experiment with them to figure out what built a stable society that allowed us to technologically progress to get to where we are today.

But let's just throw all those thousands of years away because you think it's just bull*****

Yeah...u know better than all your successful ancestors.

That's not unjustified arrogance at all.

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Literally never said that. I think monogamous lifetime marriage is one of Gods greatest gifts and has profound positive effects on society It's not something that should be entered into lightly nor thrown away at the drop of a hat.

A signed piece of paper endorsed by the government has no bearing on any of things I just mentioned.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of humanity living in stable societies throughout the course of history never had a government issued marriage license.

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No...marriages were just culturally and religiously enforced and approved. Those are totally different things.

[Sarcasm]

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They are different! Glad we agree.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Rev03 said:

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Honestly, I don't think it's my business. They are fabulous people, doing a great job co-parenting their kids. I'm not interested in forcing someone to stay married. If something like this actually passed, you would just end up with people married legally but not in the true sense of the word, and I don't think that would solve the issues with families in the United States.

---

If this passes, which it won't because this is view point only championed by an extreme minority, I would tell my daughters to never get married.

Find a life partner, have kids, live together, build a great life. But don't get legally married. Because at some point some stranger might try and prevent you from getting a divorce if it goes south.

Legally married is such stupid bull**** anyways. I don't care that I'm "legally married" and that somewhere I guess there's a courthouse somewhere that has a useless piece of paper with mine and my wife's signature on it.

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You'd tell your daughters to find a guy, have their children, but not have him commit to them for life, because you're afraid they might not be able to get divorced?

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Where did I say that? In fact, I said the exact opposite in my very first sentence… "find a life partner".

"Legally married" has zero importance to me other than it makes it easier for tax purposes and things like insurance.

The government didn't allow me to get married. My wife and I made a pledge before God when we got married, the government wasn't involved or consulted. If the government nullified my marriage license tomorrow, I'd still be married.

Were enslaved blacks not married when they jumped the broom and committed themselves for life to each other and God? I mean, if you asked the government they were not married, weren't allowed to. But I would be willing to bet you would agree that they were married. So it would seem that getting a useless piece of paper filed by a low level county clerk really isn't that important in the grand scheme of what constitutes a marriage.

But that's the best i can explain it as a 3 year old.

---

I recall having to get a marriage certificate to be married in the Church. I honestly have no idea if there's a way around that. But to end my marriage would require a declaration of nullity which is infinitely harder to get than a divorce if no fault divorce were done away with.

If you entered into a sacramental marriage, why in the world would ending no fault divorce be concerning?

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I'm not Catholic.

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Do you believe that marriage in indissoluble by definition?

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No. I don't believe that, again I'm not Catholic.

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What did you pledge to do before God?

Huh, I remember Jesus talking about this in Matthew 5, and that was the extent of it.

Bob Lee said:

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BearJew13 said:

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Where does declaration of nullify appear in the Cannon?

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1671-1707

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I'm bowing out of this. I have zero desire to have a religious argument with you guys. Which is clearly what this has devolved into.

Have a good evening.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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BearJew13 said:

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Where does declaration of nullify appear in the Cannon?

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1671-1707

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I'm bowing out of this. I have zero desire to have a religious argument with you guys. Which is clearly what this has devolved into.

Have a good evening.

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Good night. Would be interesting to know if your wife knows you don't believe the "till death do us part" part of the "pledge".

BearJew13 said:

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Huh, I remember Jesus talking about this in Matthew 5, and that was the extent of it.

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I'm not sure what you're getting at. I thought you were asking in earnest where in the code of canon law it talked about annulment.

The point is the government should not have any say in what he pledged to his wife beyond contract law.

The important part is between you and God and your spouse. It's a matter of the heart, not the law.

BearJew13 said:

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The point is the government should not have any say in what he pledged to his wife beyond contract law.

The important part is between you and God and your spouse. It's a matter of the heart, not the law.

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You don't think it's important for who is married to who, and which children are the product of which marriages to be a matter of public record?

Bob Lee said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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BearJew13 said:

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Where does declaration of nullify appear in the Cannon?

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1671-1707

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I'm bowing out of this. I have zero desire to have a religious argument with you guys. Which is clearly what this has devolved into.

Have a good evening.

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Good night. Would be interesting to know if your wife knows you don't believe the "till death do us part" part of the "pledge".

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Really dude. That's some pathetic bull***** I engaged politely and respectfully with you, and you pull that? Are you really that big of a child to throw a disrespectful barb at my wife because I don't want to have a religious argument with you about governments involvement in marriage on the politics board.

That has nothing to do with no fault divorce

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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BearJew13 said:

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Where does declaration of nullify appear in the Cannon?

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1671-1707

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I'm bowing out of this. I have zero desire to have a religious argument with you guys. Which is clearly what this has devolved into.

Have a good evening.

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Good night. Would be interesting to know if your wife knows you don't believe the "till death do us part" part of the "pledge".

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Really dude. That's some pathetic bull***** I engaged politely and respectfully with you, and you pull that? Are you really that big of a child to throw a disrespectful barb at my wife because I don't want to have a religious argument with you about governments involvement in marriage on the politics board.

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You said you don't believe marriage is indissoluble. I didn't think that was uniquely Catholic.