Teslag said:

---

As an American I would hope my president would fight to the very last man to keep us sovereign.

You may differ.

---

Like Trump.

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

Teslag said:

---

As an American I would hope my president would fight to the very last man to keep us sovereign.

You may differ.

---

There was a time when I was staunchly in that camp. But given the current nature and trajectory of our government there is a chasm developing between alliance to the constitution and alliance to this government.

---

It's not about those things. It's about this being my home and country. Damn the government.

.@RepPfluger on more funding for the Ukraine conflict. https://t.co/PnMfB1s6kY

— San Angelo Live (@SanAngeloLIVE) April 5, 2023

Let's abandon them at the eleventh hour and reinforce our reputation for being weak and capricious. Solid plan.

GAC06 said:

---

Let's abandon them at the eleventh hour and reinforce our reputation for being weak and capricious. Solid plan.

---

Off the record he said the war is a stalemate and Ukraine could break the stalemate with a wing of F-16s. Superior airpower will crush the Russians. But, he said, no one in the administration is getting serious about supplying airpower to the Ukrainians.

I disagree that would make a huge difference, as Russia has a pretty robust air defense capability. Also if we were going to do it we should have done it a year ago (unless we did and are able to keep it secret)

willtackleforfood said:

---

In Oct. 2014, after Ukraine had already begun shelling the Donbas, a speech from President Petro Poroshenko went viral when he said, "Our children will go to schools and kindergartens — their children will sit in basement bomb shelters." pic.twitter.com/Sd0NxMm2DM

— kanekoa.substack.com (@KanekoaTheGreat) March 22, 2023

What's your thoughts about this clip?

---

Do you seem to think Ukraine started randomly shelling parts of the Donbas unprovoked, as if there wasn't a war going on?

deddog said:

---

It's a war. Really bad stuff happens.
And you're naive if you think Russians are the only ones doing it.

If things are really this bad, you'd think Biden would be sending the Ukes weapons that could actually win the war (like F-16s and A-10s) instead of sending them just enough weapons just to keep the war going on forever. But at least you can Stand With Ukraine for some more time, until there aren't any left.

---

OK, show me the vids of Ukrainians raping thousands of Russian kids, enslaving the women as sex slaves, castrating Russian men.

Actually, just show me a video of the Ukes invading an inch of Russian land.

And F16's are useless without training and logistics, which is why they're only slowing giving them jets. And with the Russian air force neutered they may not even be needed.

But at least it seems you're the type of man to freely let invaders into your home to do whatever they want.

The only thing that turn MAGA into deficit hawks was military aid to defeat Russia.

Military aid to Israel? MAGA was always for that

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Teslag said:

---

No the argument is that Russia doesn't get to invade sovereign nations unless they are directly attacked. The end.

---

Why is it our job to get involved?

---

It may not be. And saying we shouldn't be giving them aid is a valid argument. But they do have a right to exist and fight for that existence.

---

Has anyone argued otherwise?

---

Yes, several on this thread. The argument is basically that Ukraine deserves to be invaded for considering joining nato

---

Noone has argued that.

Post a direct quote that shows this.

We have said that Ukraine joining NATO posed a national defense issue for Russia. And noone on here has had the balls to address any of the valid points that have been made.

Just Russia bad. Russia bad.

Jesus christ. I didn't have much hope for ur intelligence.

But I was hoping a service member would at least have the integrity to avoid blatant lies.

Too much to ask?

---

Trying to understand your point of view here - in your opinion how does Ukraine (or anyone else) joining a defensive organization like NATO pose a national defense issue for Russia?

---

Is this a serious question? We're you asleep for the entire Cold War?

Teslag said:

---

I would never want the leader of my country to negotiate a surrender without exhausting all options. And then I'd rather die than be a puppet of another country.

But it appears you would.

---

You literally bragged about being a puppet for our own country and ratting out kids that didn't want to inject poison in their veins. Do you even listen to the hot air coming out of your mouth?

CondensedFogAggie said:

---

deddog said:

---

It's a war. Really bad stuff happens.
And you're naive if you think Russians are the only ones doing it.

If things are really this bad, you'd think Biden would be sending the Ukes weapons that could actually win the war (like F-16s and A-10s) instead of sending them just enough weapons just to keep the war going on forever. But at least you can Stand With Ukraine for some more time, until there aren't any left.

---

OK, show me the vids of Ukrainians raping thousands of Russian kids, enslaving the women as sex slaves, castrating Russian men.

Actually, just show me a video of the Ukes invading an inch of Russian land.

And F16's are useless without training and logistics, which is why they're only slowing giving them jets. And with the Russian air force neutered they may not even be needed.

But at least it seems you're the type of man to freely let invaders into your home to do whatever they want.

---

You can always tell a lib female poster by their emotional and ad hominem attacks
You know why we are in this position? Because YOU voted a eunuch for POTUS.AGAIN

And for all the Stand With Ukraine bull**** you profess from the safety of your keyboard , the **** you voted for us getting Ukrainians killed. You are bravely fighting till the last Ukrainian man while Pedo vacillates on giving them weapons that might actually turn the tide.

While you hide behind the logistics skirt. You know when logistics are harder? When you don't have any pilots left because they are all dead. They've had a year to train pilots and there are plenty of time to get logistics in place

Which could mean two things : Either this admin is weak and inept, or the more likely scenario they they want to drag out the war as much as possible

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

So far I haven't seen anything that objectively makes sense to me as to what threat NATO causes to Russia or anyone's national security (unless that security relies on having the option to go on the offensive against a neighbor), so was curious as to his viewpoint or since he has said it a few times.

---

Have you actually read anything that you find unpersuasive but discusses their motivation/rationale?

---

No, that's why I'm asking where that viewpoint is coming from, because I currently can't figure out an objective reason why they'd be threatened.

Edit: I do understand why Russia would say they feel threatened, but not clear how that would be supported.

---

I've posted quite a bit on this but I'll play along here since you are claiming real interest. Recent history/why:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

If you or any of the war cheerleaders are willing to actually read a link please try this one; it's not that long and I won't even excerpt it but the expansion has changed since the Baltic states were incorporated into the alliance (not the CFE provision's exclusion there):

https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/threat-or-threatened-russian-foreign-policy-in-the-era-of-nato-expansion/

It was, longer term, the area (and their Black Sea fleet) that had been the target of the European Powers (England/France at the time) in the Crimean war nearly 200 years ago (treaty of Paris):

https://www.history.com/news/crimea-russia-ukraine-annexation

The Russian nationalist perspective is that foreign interference there (and post-maiden revolution establishment of a puppet western government) was threatening to further poison/sour/infect Russian peoples and lead to greater cultural invasions. Dislike it all you want, but the perception of Moscow as an heir 'new Rome/Constantinople' to save Christianity/humanity from the decay since the fall of the 'west' is a real…thing to many, including in their leadership.

I believe our foreign policy shifts/policies since 1990 under a slew of presidents D and R alike has been shortsighted/ignorant of the motivation/history here (Victoria Nuland and all the impeachment against trump over his Ukraine call witnesses come to mind, with their dripping arrogance at a microphone from folks like George Kent, Fiona Hill, and Yovanovich, 'oh say can you see' vindman), and that this is going to continue moving forward.

But anyway, at least understanding a geopolitical foe warrants trying to comprehend their mindset/history, imho.

Nortex97, comrade, I would like to follow your telegram account if you want to post it

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

I would never want the leader of my country to negotiate a surrender without exhausting all options. And then I'd rather die than be a puppet of another country.

But it appears you would.

---

You literally bragged about being a puppet for our own country and ratting out kids that didn't want to inject poison in their veins. Do you even listen to the hot air coming out of your mouth?

---

I guess if you don't have a coherent response you can always just make things up like the bolded part.

Teslag said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

I would never want the leader of my country to negotiate a surrender without exhausting all options. And then I'd rather die than be a puppet of another country.

But it appears you would.

---

You literally bragged about being a puppet for our own country and ratting out kids that didn't want to inject poison in their veins. Do you even listen to the hot air coming out of your mouth?

---

I guess if you don't have a coherent response you can always just make things up like the bolded part.

---

Forgot to add that later you will deny it after everyone ridicules the awful takes.

There's a link posted on this thread to the original thread. It's clear for all to see. You didn't even get the story close to correct.

Neville chamberlain a hero for you?

jwj said:

---

Neville chamberlain a hero for you?

---

That is such a tired, worn out, and uncreative trope.

Would you posit Joseph Robinette Biden (FJB) is thus akin to Winston Churchill as a wartime leader? Putin is Hitler? I mean, they obviously have been pals over the years.



It's the guy on the left's son, after all, who was paid millions by the former mayor of Moscow's widow for his consulting work. The gal, you know, who is now exempt from Russia sanctions by some strange coincidence. Some billionaires and wars and leaders I guess are more equal than others.

No.

And based on the silliness of that question I wouldn't peg you as being able to comprehend a longer answer.

shiftyandquick said:

---

Nortex97, comrade, I would like to follow your telegram account if you want to post it

---

Ironically, it's those who exaggerate Putin's power/propaganda's effectiveness that…contribute to it.

Quote:

---

And exaggerating Russian influence may help Putin, or the people trying to win his favor. "When we propagate the idea that Russian propaganda is the all-powerful source of disinformation in American politics," writes Benkler, "we reinforce precisely this primary goal: We sow confusion." Wrote Facebook in 2022, "These actors… have an interest in exaggerating their own effectiveness..."

And, as is now clear, DiResta and her colleagues are, in fact bringing to the US the same kinds of influence operations the US government, through the CIA and others, has used to influence elections in past decades, including in South Vietnam and Japan, El Salvador, Haiti, Guatemala, Brazil, Israel, Lebanon, Panama, Iran, Greece, Italy, Malta, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Sri Lanka, and the Philippines.

---

Just something to consider as you eat up every bit of CIA-sourced disinformation about Russia/Democrats/Ukraine.

shiftyandquick said:

---

The only thing that turn MAGA into deficit hawks was military aid to defeat Russia.

Military aid to Israel? MAGA was always for that

---

to be fair, all aid to Israel equals $3 billion a year.

In a year, we have dispatched $80 billion for Ukraine and congress has approved double that amount.

Buy defense contractor stock.
Make bank.

TxTarpon said:

---

Buy defense contractor stock.
Make bank.

---

Logistics is lucrative