I'm just glad Trump is brave enough to let everyone know his true feelings.

Trump endorsed swamp creature Paul Ryan for Speaker, which turned out to be a huge mistake. No Wall, No Obamacare repeal, No pro-2A. I was the only member of the GOP to vote against Paul Ryan, but there was no chance to defeat him once Trump endorsed him.pic.twitter.com/uNTlPVgCox

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 3, 2023

Trump 2.0 is much better educated on the swamp.

Tell us you don't understand 37.2964 D chess without saying "I don't understand 37.2964 D chess.".

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew... Romney would not be Republicans at that time?

---

Literally all of F16 in 2011

Paul Ryan is one of the most underappreciated villains responsible for where we are today.

He is one R I would never, ever vote for. He needs to live in whatever slimly snake den he scurred away to.

A warm place awaits him next to John McCain for what he did to this Country.

Piece of slimy swamp **** that thing is.

Romney, yes. Though F16 is a little more conservative then the republican national party. I really should have just left it with first 2.

What did he do to make you hate him so much? Came across as a geeky kid that never got anything really accomplished other than tax cuts is my memory of him.

Was there certain legislation he pushed that makes him evil? Or his inability to do anything?

Im Gipper said:

---

What did he do to make you hate him so much? Came across as a geeky kid that never got anything really accomplished other than tax cuts is my memory of him.

Was there certain legislation he pushed that makes him evil? Or his inability to do anything?

---

Total swamp creature who was slithering his way to a R presidential nomination until Trump derailed his weak arse.

Focused more on money to grift for his district vs broader legislation. Failed to support Trump, then supported, then withdrew support and encourage others to do same.

Bare got the ACA reform passed in House ensuring McCain would have his thumbs down opportunity and cover for it.

Took a pass on doing anything on immigration to allow for DJT to spin in the wind on that topic vs supporting a stronger border and immigration reform. Was never supportive of Trump when in office and embarked on a plan to hide out until DJT was no longer in the picture.

Made some substantial allegations of voter fraud in California in 2018 then again went sheepishly quiet on the topic and was nowhere to be found in 2020 when it became much more widespread.

You need more, then go do some of your own research. The dude is deep swamp and a man of ZERO moral character. A sham.

Seems pretty stupid to blame him for McCain's famous thumbs down. It would not have mattered how many votes in the house Ryan could've got together.

I'd love to hear some examples of how he went against Trump as speaker. His biggest failure was the immigration bill which Trump was in line with him on. It's a complete figment of your imagination to say he did Nothing on immigration. He did just with Trump wanted!


Looks like you are just rambling off unsupportable platitudes. "Trump said no like. Me no like"

I'm sure you'll make up some garbage about me being a Ryan supporter now, but as I said, above other than tax cuts, he was worthless

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

---

I could find some I am sure but more importantly it just illustrates how badly Trump got played over and over again by the Swamp. So what is he doing now? He has Lindsey Graham and Elise Stefanik front and center not only endorsing him but going on TV trying to raise money for him. He wanted Ronna Romney McDaniel as RNC Chair AGAIN after he hand picked her the first time. I mean Trump literally gave Bob Freaking Woodward unrestricted access to right a tell all book inside his WH for an extended period of time. That's beyond bonehead stupid.

I could be forgiving of a mistake. Or two. Or even a few more. I can't be as forgiving when someone is making the same mistakes again and is actually trying to blame his opponent for mistakes HE made.

If you can't see how Trump if he somehow, someway wins isn't going to get played by the Swamp again you just don't want to open your eyes. If you think that, "Well, if Trump can't do it no one can!" then you are deeper down with your head in the sand. I know in your case you are open to DeSantis so I have hope for you but I am so tired of the excuse making by Trump folks. If you don't take responsibility for something you can't understand how to stop making the same mistake over and over again.

Im Gipper said:

---

Seems pretty stupid to blame him for McCain's famous thumbs down. It would not have mattered how many votes in the house Ryan could've got together.

I'd love to hear some examples of how he went against Trump as speaker. His biggest failure was the immigration bill which Trump was in line with him on. It's a complete figment of your imagination to say he did Nothing on immigration. He did just with Trump wanted!


Looks like you are just rambling off unsupportable platitudes. "Trump said no like. Me no like"

I'm sure you'll make up some garbage about me being a Ryan supporter now, but as I said, above other than tax cuts, he was worthless

---

And I am not going to give him credit on the tax cuts that Trump and friends got across the line. So he is utterly worthless in my book.

He should have put together a stronger bill on ACA and ensured he had McCain's support before putting it to the Senate. Would Pelosi have allowed such a failure? No.

Would Pelosi have failed on the immigration bill? No.

When Trump ended DACA, Ryan promised a replacement but never delivered.

I don't need to accuse you of being this or that to disagree with you, though I am some Trump acolyte for not liking Ryan. I also seem to be stupid on how the ACA debacle played out.

You like to fancy me some sort of opposition to you. I'm not, I just do not agree with you on certain topics. And guess what, thats ok.

Trump keeps Lindsey around like the Queen kept her Corgies. They are cute little doggies always loyally at your heels but not particularly good for much unless someone gets after you then they'll bit their ankles.

It would utterly idiotic for Trump ignore Stefanik, a loyalist from his home state who was rising in the party. Neither of those make him particularly swampy.

However, I will agree I do not hold much hope of addressing the swamp. Though as a 2nd term candidate he may actually be able to do some damage. But the RINOs will need to be removed in 2024 to get anything done.

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

---

I could find some I am sure but more importantly it just illustrates how badly Trump got played over and over again by the Swamp. So what is he doing now? He has Lindsey Graham and Elise Stefanik front and center not only endorsing him but going on TV trying to raise money for him. He wanted Ronna Romney McDaniel as RNC Chair AGAIN after he hand picked her the first time. I mean Trump literally gave Bob Freaking Woodward unrestricted access to right a tell all book inside his WH for an extended period of time. That's beyond bonehead stupid.

I could be forgiving of a mistake. Or two. Or even a few more. I can't be as forgiving when someone is making the same mistakes again and is actually trying to blame his opponent for mistakes HE made.

If you can't see how Trump if he somehow, someway wins isn't going to get played by the Swamp again you just don't want to open your eyes. If you think that, "Well, if Trump can't do it no one can!" then you are deeper down with your head in the sand. I know in your case you are open to DeSantis so I have hope for you but I am so tired of the excuse making by Trump folks. If you don't take responsibility for something you can't understand how to stop making the same mistake over and over again.

---

Again you are missing the forest for the trees.

The issue was attacking Paul Ryan, McConnel and even to some extent Romney would have alienated 70-80% of the American population back then. Just because in hindsight we all know they are bad doesn't mean that it would have been prudent to point that out back then. It is the definition of arm chair quarterbacking that looks at history as deterministic and specifically ignores the realities of the present at that time. If Trump didn't endorse Paul Ryan, McConnell and Romney everyone would have said oh he isn't a republican he isn't a legitimate president.

Basically if you create this alternate reality you don't get to stop it after act 1. You have to see how that would play out in act 2, 3, 4, etc. In this case it wouldn't have played out well but he would have gotten a good clip in 2024. Maybe.

In war terms this is the equivalent of saying America shouldn't have bothered with kicking the Nazi's out of Africa since we all know that taking Berlin would cause the capitulation of Germany. So if we just would have attacked Germany sooner, landed on D-Day earlier we would have won the war faster! All the strategic advantages gained by kicking Germany out of North Africa are just ignored. Because who knows. That is the argument you repeatedly make. With Trump failing to fully disassociate with all the rhinos and his handling of covid. Sometimes you have to take the lesser objective before you can take the critical objective.

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

---

Get your pragmatic takes outta here and don't come back!

fka ftc said:

---

Im Gipper said:

---

Seems pretty stupid to blame him for McCain's famous thumbs down. It would not have mattered how many votes in the house Ryan could've got together.

I'd love to hear some examples of how he went against Trump as speaker. His biggest failure was the immigration bill which Trump was in line with him on. It's a complete figment of your imagination to say he did Nothing on immigration. He did just with Trump wanted!


Looks like you are just rambling off unsupportable platitudes. "Trump said no like. Me no like"

I'm sure you'll make up some garbage about me being a Ryan supporter now, but as I said, above other than tax cuts, he was worthless

---

And I am not going to give him credit on the tax cuts that Trump and friends got across the line. So he is utterly worthless in my book.

He should have put together a stronger bill on ACA and ensured he had McCain's support before putting it to the Senate. Would Pelosi have allowed such a failure? No.

Would Pelosi have failed on the immigration bill? No.

When Trump ended DACA, Ryan promised a replacement but never delivered.

I don't need to accuse you of being this or that to disagree with you, though I am some Trump acolyte for not liking Ryan. I also seem to be stupid on how the ACA debacle played out.

You like to fancy me some sort of opposition to you. I'm not, I just do not agree with you on certain topics. And guess what, thats ok.

---

All of Ryan's lacking is also on Trump. If he were even remotely able to lead, he could have led in place of Ryan, if need arose.

I think that is a fair criticism of Trump. One of his more fatal flaws that causes me great hesitancy in supporting him in 2024. But if he the nominee, he gets every vote I can record and count for him.

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

---

I could find some I am sure but more importantly it just illustrates how badly Trump got played over and over again by the Swamp. So what is he doing now? He has Lindsey Graham and Elise Stefanik front and center not only endorsing him but going on TV trying to raise money for him. He wanted Ronna Romney McDaniel as RNC Chair AGAIN after he hand picked her the first time. I mean Trump literally gave Bob Freaking Woodward unrestricted access to right a tell all book inside his WH for an extended period of time. That's beyond bonehead stupid.

I could be forgiving of a mistake. Or two. Or even a few more. I can't be as forgiving when someone is making the same mistakes again and is actually trying to blame his opponent for mistakes HE made.

If you can't see how Trump if he somehow, someway wins isn't going to get played by the Swamp again you just don't want to open your eyes. If you think that, "Well, if Trump can't do it no one can!" then you are deeper down with your head in the sand. I know in your case you are open to DeSantis so I have hope for you but I am so tired of the excuse making by Trump folks. If you don't take responsibility for something you can't understand how to stop making the same mistake over and over again.

---

Again you are missing the forest for the trees.

The issue was attacking Paul Ryan, McConnel and even to some extent Romney would have alienated 70-80% of the American population back then. Just because in hindsight we all know they are bad doesn't mean that it would have been prudent to point that out back then. It is the definition of arm chair quarterbacking that looks at history as deterministic and specifically ignores the realities of the present at that time. If Trump didn't endorse Paul Ryan, McConnell and Romney everyone would have said oh he isn't a republican he isn't a legitimate president.

Basically if you create this alternate reality you don't get to stop it after act 1. You have to see how that would play out in act 2, 3, 4, etc. In this case it wouldn't have played out well but he would have gotten a good clip in 2024. Maybe.

---

I would disagree with you that 70-80% loved Paul Ryan. He was the compromise candidate when the Freedom Caucus revolted on Boehner. He was a guy who had a record of saying a lot of the right things but delivering little. Trump absolutely fell into that group that went all in with him though, no arguing that. So I agree he should own that. McConnell and Romney arguments get really murky, both were always Swamp creatures. Watch that video it's not like he complemented Ryan once or twice, he absolutely fawned over him and acted like he was his best friend.

The "forest" though isn't about 2016 it's about now. Trump has chosen to put Lindsey front and center along with Stefanik. He has chosen McDaniel who is literally Romney's niece and pure Swamp as RNC Chair. He hasn't learned a damn thing in that regard other than he is going to ally with whomever he need to in order to try to win.

I could MAYBE get past that but he is literally trying to now say DeSantis is Ryan's puppet even though DeSantis has no connection to Ryan and was literally one of the Freedom Caucus guys in the House that was trying to get someone more conservative as Speaker when Boehner was pushed out.

Trump is basically using the Dem tactic of accusing your opponent of what you are doing.

BigRobSA said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Im Gipper said:

---

Seems pretty stupid to blame him for McCain's famous thumbs down. It would not have mattered how many votes in the house Ryan could've got together.

I'd love to hear some examples of how he went against Trump as speaker. His biggest failure was the immigration bill which Trump was in line with him on. It's a complete figment of your imagination to say he did Nothing on immigration. He did just with Trump wanted!


Looks like you are just rambling off unsupportable platitudes. "Trump said no like. Me no like"

I'm sure you'll make up some garbage about me being a Ryan supporter now, but as I said, above other than tax cuts, he was worthless

---

And I am not going to give him credit on the tax cuts that Trump and friends got across the line. So he is utterly worthless in my book.

He should have put together a stronger bill on ACA and ensured he had McCain's support before putting it to the Senate. Would Pelosi have allowed such a failure? No.

Would Pelosi have failed on the immigration bill? No.

When Trump ended DACA, Ryan promised a replacement but never delivered.

I don't need to accuse you of being this or that to disagree with you, though I am some Trump acolyte for not liking Ryan. I also seem to be stupid on how the ACA debacle played out.

You like to fancy me some sort of opposition to you. I'm not, I just do not agree with you on certain topics. And guess what, thats ok.

---

All of Ryan's lacking is also on Trump. If he were even remotely able to lead, he could have led in place of Ryan, if need arose.

---

The amount of power you think the president has, versus the amount of power the president actually has are vastly different.
Those who control the means of production have the power. The president has a limited control over certain aspects. Media, business, bureaucrats, justices all control different parts. The president has to act within the amount of power he actually has not his perceived power that our elementary education of politics presents it as.

Yes, Trump should have MODELED himself after Paul Ryan...like Ron does.

He also wanted to become someone like Paul Ryan. And we all know how bad Paul Ryan is. In return, Paul Ryan is backing him this time. pic.twitter.com/mM0YvY3u54

— Leskov Brandonovic (@fjb4587) January 30, 2023

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

---

I could find some I am sure but more importantly it just illustrates how badly Trump got played over and over again by the Swamp. So what is he doing now? He has Lindsey Graham and Elise Stefanik front and center not only endorsing him but going on TV trying to raise money for him. He wanted Ronna Romney McDaniel as RNC Chair AGAIN after he hand picked her the first time. I mean Trump literally gave Bob Freaking Woodward unrestricted access to right a tell all book inside his WH for an extended period of time. That's beyond bonehead stupid.

I could be forgiving of a mistake. Or two. Or even a few more. I can't be as forgiving when someone is making the same mistakes again and is actually trying to blame his opponent for mistakes HE made.

If you can't see how Trump if he somehow, someway wins isn't going to get played by the Swamp again you just don't want to open your eyes. If you think that, "Well, if Trump can't do it no one can!" then you are deeper down with your head in the sand. I know in your case you are open to DeSantis so I have hope for you but I am so tired of the excuse making by Trump folks. If you don't take responsibility for something you can't understand how to stop making the same mistake over and over again.

---

Again you are missing the forest for the trees.

The issue was attacking Paul Ryan, McConnel and even to some extent Romney would have alienated 70-80% of the American population back then. Just because in hindsight we all know they are bad doesn't mean that it would have been prudent to point that out back then. It is the definition of arm chair quarterbacking that looks at history as deterministic and specifically ignores the realities of the present at that time. If Trump didn't endorse Paul Ryan, McConnell and Romney everyone would have said oh he isn't a republican he isn't a legitimate president.

Basically if you create this alternate reality you don't get to stop it after act 1. You have to see how that would play out in act 2, 3, 4, etc. In this case it wouldn't have played out well but he would have gotten a good clip in 2024. Maybe.

---

I would disagree with you that 70-80% loved Paul Ryan. He was the compromise candidate when the Freedom Caucus revolted on Boehner. He was a guy who had a record of saying a lot of the right things but delivering little. Trump absolutely fell into that group that went all in with him though, no arguing that. So I agree he should own that. McConnell and Romney arguments get really murky, both were always Swamp creatures. Watch that video it's not like he complemented Ryan once or twice, he absolutely fawned over him and acted like he was his best friend.

The "forest" though isn't about 2016 it's about now. Trump has chosen to put Lindsey front and center along with Stefanik. He has chosen McDaniel who is literally Romney's niece and pure Swamp as RNC Chair. He hasn't learned a damn thing in that regard other than he is going to ally with whomever he need to in order to try to win.

I could MAYBE get past that but he is literally trying to now say DeSantis is Ryan's puppet even though DeSantis has no connection to Ryan and was literally one of the Freedom Caucus guys in the House that was trying to get someone more conservative as Speaker when Boehner was pushed out.

Trump is basically using the Dem tactic of accusing your opponent of what you are doing.

---

I didn't say Paul Ryan had 70-80% favorability. Let's assume all democrats and independents or roughly 50% despised Trump. Then lets say among republicans 50% viewed McConnell and Paul Ryan favorably. Then that would give Trump 75% unfavourability by attacking them. Attacking Paul Ryan and McConnell wasn't going to make democrats or independents like him. Trump had to get as close to 100% of republicans on board to get any legislature through.

Oh no politics isn't a 100% honest. Just like the implication behind this tweet. Funny how your reaction to Trump claiming false things about DeSantis is to claim false things about Trump. But you are doing it for good reasons so it is okay. Just bad reasoning.

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

---

You nailed the basics for sure! When Trump was elected people celebrated that he tried to work with "Republicans". The same ones that tried to keep him from being elected. What was not known was how they were still working to undermine everything.

It's funny now the realization is obvious that the establishment will fight every attempt to go against them and will do whatever it takes.

But then they say we need someone that can work with everyone. It's the same thing all over again.

When Desantis shows that he can actually fight against McConnell and the DC establishment it will be more reassuring. He seems to actually be working with them unfortunately!

If you think Paul Ryan would've run Florida like DeSantis has run Florida, you're on crack.

You can "model" yourself after someone and not BE that someone.

texagbeliever said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Im Gipper said:

---

Seems pretty stupid to blame him for McCain's famous thumbs down. It would not have mattered how many votes in the house Ryan could've got together.

I'd love to hear some examples of how he went against Trump as speaker. His biggest failure was the immigration bill which Trump was in line with him on. It's a complete figment of your imagination to say he did Nothing on immigration. He did just with Trump wanted!


Looks like you are just rambling off unsupportable platitudes. "Trump said no like. Me no like"

I'm sure you'll make up some garbage about me being a Ryan supporter now, but as I said, above other than tax cuts, he was worthless

---

And I am not going to give him credit on the tax cuts that Trump and friends got across the line. So he is utterly worthless in my book.

He should have put together a stronger bill on ACA and ensured he had McCain's support before putting it to the Senate. Would Pelosi have allowed such a failure? No.

Would Pelosi have failed on the immigration bill? No.

When Trump ended DACA, Ryan promised a replacement but never delivered.

I don't need to accuse you of being this or that to disagree with you, though I am some Trump acolyte for not liking Ryan. I also seem to be stupid on how the ACA debacle played out.

You like to fancy me some sort of opposition to you. I'm not, I just do not agree with you on certain topics. And guess what, thats ok.

---

All of Ryan's lacking is also on Trump. If he were even remotely able to lead, he could have led in place of Ryan, if need arose.

---

The amount of power you think the president has, versus the amount of power the president actually has are vastly different.
Those who control the means of production have the power. The president has a limited control over certain aspects. Media, business, bureaucrats, justices all control different parts. The president has to act within the amount of power he actually has not his perceived power that our elementary education of politics presents it as.

---

Um, the PotUS is the defacto leader of their party.

I didn't say usurp power, I said "lead". Reagan did. Clinton got led, by Newt, to great outcomes. Hell, even W led.

Trump can't, he doesn't have an ounce of leadership in him.

rgag12 said:

---

If you think Paul Ryan would've run Florida like DeSantis has run Florida, you're on crack.

You can "model" yourself after someone and not BE that someone.

---

This. It sucks but you have to play some of the game to get to the point where you can change the game. Saying you are modeling yourself after an in vouge person to reassure people to vote for you is not the same as you being their clone. I think both candidates have a sufficient record to show what they stand for. And there is ample evidence of how much they are disliked by the bad side and quasi bad side (Cheney, McCain, Romney branch).

The nice thing about being an adult is you aren't worried about who wins Trump or DeSantis. You just get to worry about helping the nominee win and hopefully usher back in capitalism to America.

BigRobSA said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

Im Gipper said:

---

Seems pretty stupid to blame him for McCain's famous thumbs down. It would not have mattered how many votes in the house Ryan could've got together.

I'd love to hear some examples of how he went against Trump as speaker. His biggest failure was the immigration bill which Trump was in line with him on. It's a complete figment of your imagination to say he did Nothing on immigration. He did just with Trump wanted!


Looks like you are just rambling off unsupportable platitudes. "Trump said no like. Me no like"

I'm sure you'll make up some garbage about me being a Ryan supporter now, but as I said, above other than tax cuts, he was worthless

---

And I am not going to give him credit on the tax cuts that Trump and friends got across the line. So he is utterly worthless in my book.

He should have put together a stronger bill on ACA and ensured he had McCain's support before putting it to the Senate. Would Pelosi have allowed such a failure? No.

Would Pelosi have failed on the immigration bill? No.

When Trump ended DACA, Ryan promised a replacement but never delivered.

I don't need to accuse you of being this or that to disagree with you, though I am some Trump acolyte for not liking Ryan. I also seem to be stupid on how the ACA debacle played out.

You like to fancy me some sort of opposition to you. I'm not, I just do not agree with you on certain topics. And guess what, thats ok.

---

All of Ryan's lacking is also on Trump. If he were even remotely able to lead, he could have led in place of Ryan, if need arose.

---

The amount of power you think the president has, versus the amount of power the president actually has are vastly different.
Those who control the means of production have the power. The president has a limited control over certain aspects. Media, business, bureaucrats, justices all control different parts. The president has to act within the amount of power he actually has not his perceived power that our elementary education of politics presents it as.

---

Um, the PotUS is the defacto leader of their party.

I didn't say usurp power, I said "lead". Reagan did. Clinton got led, by Newt, to great outcomes. Hell, even W led.

Trump can't, he doesn't have an ounce of leadership in him.

---

A complete swing and a miss. Oh and funny you mention how Clinton got led. You know the president that was impeached and likely needed to be seen as more neutral. Gee almost like the impeachment of Trump (which we all know was a lie) was to undermine his ability to lead. Now throw in a MSM & Social Media & Tech that manipulated the perception of public opinion against Trump and you can see how he wasn't able to lead. That is of course if you are being objective.

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

---

I could find some I am sure but more importantly it just illustrates how badly Trump got played over and over again by the Swamp. So what is he doing now? He has Lindsey Graham and Elise Stefanik front and center not only endorsing him but going on TV trying to raise money for him. He wanted Ronna Romney McDaniel as RNC Chair AGAIN after he hand picked her the first time. I mean Trump literally gave Bob Freaking Woodward unrestricted access to right a tell all book inside his WH for an extended period of time. That's beyond bonehead stupid.

I could be forgiving of a mistake. Or two. Or even a few more. I can't be as forgiving when someone is making the same mistakes again and is actually trying to blame his opponent for mistakes HE made.

If you can't see how Trump if he somehow, someway wins isn't going to get played by the Swamp again you just don't want to open your eyes. If you think that, "Well, if Trump can't do it no one can!" then you are deeper down with your head in the sand. I know in your case you are open to DeSantis so I have hope for you but I am so tired of the excuse making by Trump folks. If you don't take responsibility for something you can't understand how to stop making the same mistake over and over again.

---

Again you are missing the forest for the trees.

The issue was attacking Paul Ryan, McConnel and even to some extent Romney would have alienated 70-80% of the American population back then. Just because in hindsight we all know they are bad doesn't mean that it would have been prudent to point that out back then. It is the definition of arm chair quarterbacking that looks at history as deterministic and specifically ignores the realities of the present at that time. If Trump didn't endorse Paul Ryan, McConnell and Romney everyone would have said oh he isn't a republican he isn't a legitimate president.

Basically if you create this alternate reality you don't get to stop it after act 1. You have to see how that would play out in act 2, 3, 4, etc. In this case it wouldn't have played out well but he would have gotten a good clip in 2024. Maybe.

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I would disagree with you that 70-80% loved Paul Ryan. He was the compromise candidate when the Freedom Caucus revolted on Boehner. He was a guy who had a record of saying a lot of the right things but delivering little. Trump absolutely fell into that group that went all in with him though, no arguing that. So I agree he should own that. McConnell and Romney arguments get really murky, both were always Swamp creatures. Watch that video it's not like he complemented Ryan once or twice, he absolutely fawned over him and acted like he was his best friend.

The "forest" though isn't about 2016 it's about now. Trump has chosen to put Lindsey front and center along with Stefanik. He has chosen McDaniel who is literally Romney's niece and pure Swamp as RNC Chair. He hasn't learned a damn thing in that regard other than he is going to ally with whomever he need to in order to try to win.

I could MAYBE get past that but he is literally trying to now say DeSantis is Ryan's puppet even though DeSantis has no connection to Ryan and was literally one of the Freedom Caucus guys in the House that was trying to get someone more conservative as Speaker when Boehner was pushed out.

Trump is basically using the Dem tactic of accusing your opponent of what you are doing.

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I didn't say Paul Ryan had 70-80% favorability. Let's assume all democrats and independents or roughly 50% despised Trump. Then lets say among republicans 50% viewed McConnell and Paul Ryan favorably. Then that would give Trump 75% unfavourability by attacking them. Attacking Paul Ryan and McConnell wasn't going to make democrats or independents like him. Trump had to get as close to 100% of republicans on board to get any legislature through.

Oh no politics isn't a 100% honest. Just like the implication behind this tweet. Funny how your reaction to Trump claiming false things about DeSantis is to claim false things about Trump. But you are doing it for good reasons so it is okay. Just bad reasoning.

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Trump is the one who is attacking DeSantis saying that Ryan is behind him not the other way around.

More importantly Trump got played repeatedly by the Swamp. Ryan was far from the worst, that would be Fauci who he never fired. He's now got multiple hard core Swamp creatures inside his tent with Graham, Stefanik, and McDaniel. He hasn't learned a damn thing.

DeSantis has a record of the complete opposite in Florida. Anyone that stood against him was gone. Anyone that leaked was gone. He took heat but didn't care, he just kept punching and won. Big. It's also a great sign that the 2 people in Congress that have come out loudest for him early are Chip Roy and Thomas Massie who are probably the least "Swamp" people in DC and are extremely intelligent and know how to win. Roy is probably the person most responsible for getting all the concessions from McCarthy to become Speaker and Massie is probably the most intelligent man in Congress and knows how to destroy people with facts, he's probably the most principled conservative in that building.

So the "point" is this is a hypocritical and stupid attack line by Trump and he deserves to be shamed by it.

AGHouston11 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Please list all the people who knew Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Romney would not be Republicans at that time? Texags loved Mitch until recently.

Maybe 50 die hard conservatives plus bigrob.

You guys on one hand expected Trump to go in there, fire every fake republican and Democrat and then at the EXACT same time have a majority coalition to get conservative things passed. It is the same disconnection from reality that is needed for a socialist to believe the next red revolution will bring in a classless society. Despite the obvious failures of such a development.

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You nailed the basics for sure! When Trump was elected people celebrated that he tried to work with "Republicans". The same ones that tried to keep him from being elected. What was not known was how they were still working to undermine everything.

It's funny now the realization is obvious that the establishment will fight every attempt to go against them and will do whatever it takes.

But then they say we need someone that can work with everyone. It's the same thing all over again.

When Desantis shows that he can actually fight against McConnell and the DC establishment it will be more reassuring. He seems to actually be working with them unfortunately!

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DeSantis does have a DC record. He was a Founding Member of the Freedom Caucus. That's who he still is and that's where his base of support comes from.

So your point was to bring in a tweet of Trump playing politics, then claim Trump plays politics, then get mad at Trump playing politics with his treatment of DeSantis. Groundbreaking news. Still don't care. You really shouldn't either.

texagbeliever said:

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So your point was to bring in a tweet of Trump playing politics, then claim Trump plays politics, then get mad at Trump playing politics with his treatment of DeSantis. Groundbreaking news. Still don't care. You really shouldn't either.

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K. Well there certainly seem to be a lot of Trump folks here that think Trump is the best guy to fight the Swamp and they have short memories of how the Swamp not only beat him he didn't even know how bad he was being played until it was too late. Now he is still friendly with Swamp creatures but we are supposed to believe this time it's different.

Oh, and of course everyone else would have been played like Trump did too because reasons.

Well I suggest making a better argument if your goal is to get people to support DeSantis over Trump in the primary. Because your OP is not the top liked post on a message board that is biased DeSantis.

Seriously admitting this was a poor argument doesn't make Trump the better candidate than DeSantis. Just means this one was a poor take. I have tons of bad takes. The best thing to do is learn from them.

I loved Paul Ryan until I saw how his voting trends told me he not who he portrayed himself to be.

Secondly, this idea Trump got played by the SWAMP. When Trumps own party worked for his demise from the very beginning put Trump in a losing position. No one knows enough people to put in key positions through out
Government positions. Trump had to trust some folks to act professionally. Most did not.