CREAg87 said:

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Squatters rights are absolute nonsense.

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Who ever pays the property tax owns the land.
The "squatter" should be sued for back taxes at the very least.

I have read that a lot of our concepts of adverse possession had their origins in the years following the Black Death. That plague may have killed off 1/3 to 1/2 of the population of Europe. When the wealthy or nobles were killed off, vast tracks of land were left unclaimed and unused since entire families and even clans had been killed. Adverse possession, supposedly, was developed in order to put all that land back to use and to clear up land titles that were incredibly confusing and complicated with so many of the heirs dead.

eric76 said:

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CREAg87 said:

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Squatters rights are absolute nonsense.

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Without adverse possession, would title companies even be able to exist?

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No. Absolutely not.

I have become an expert in the field, and handled cases and given legal seminars about it.

Mineral rights are nearly impossible to ap, and that is why the entire landman regime exists, and why you cant get title insurance for mineral rights. Mineral buyers and og companies have to run title back to sovereign to figure out marketable title. That situation would be untenable for surface rights.

While it seems anti american, the reality is ap is rarely used to just 'squat' and 'steal' property. Much more often it just clears up ambiguity and allows reasonable use and development.

Texas has a confusing and poorly drafted 3, 5, 10, and 25 year ap statute.

The main unifying concept is a long period of 'open and notorious' use adverse to a record title holder, combined with various 'documentation' requirements, with no documentation at all required for some periods.

This times 1000. Should I be able to receive your unclaimed money from www.claimittexas.gov since you aren't using it appropriately or may have forgotten about it?

ProgN said:

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richardag said:

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I found this article:
Squatter's Rights in Texas. Everything you Need to Know.

• Meet all of the adverse possession elements mentioned above.
  Have continuous possession of the property for a minimum of 10 years.
  Timely pay the required state, county, or municipal property taxes for such property during the period in which the land has been occupied.

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Thank you, but I still think squatters rights is complete horse*****

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A case can be made that you are correct and squatters rights are complete horse***** There is also a case to be made that the owner by not paying property taxes and maintaining the property for 10 years relinquishes their rights to the person maintaining and paying the property taxes may have some rights to the property.

As always the devil is in the details of the laws as written and how best justice may be served.

cena05 said:

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This times 1000. Should I be able to receive your unclaimed money from www.claimittexas.gov since you aren't using it appropriately or may have forgotten about it?

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Regarding both, if a property owner dies with no heirs does their property, real or otherwise, escheat to the government?

This is an incorrect statement. Surveys have nothing to do with any of the statutes for adverse possession. Also, surveys in Texas are not recorded in the County records.
Ask me how I know.

They do know the amount of property you have and they often record surveys as part of deed transactions. I deal with it all the time with telecom easements. The plats often get recorded in the transaction now. I find survey plats all the time researching rights of way and property boundaries

cena05 said:

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This times 1000. Should I be able to receive your unclaimed money from www.claimittexas.gov since you aren't using it appropriately or may have forgotten about it?

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More should I be able to illegally gain access to your garage, put a lock on your motorcycle, and when you don't use it for long enough claim the title.

Subdivision plats are recorded all the time. Even those are not a true indication of how much land is owned by someone. Again, if surveys were recorded, which they are not, it would have to be recorded by the Surveyor of record. There are no such statutes in Texas, requiring a surveyor to record their surveys in the Clerks Files.

You mentioned dealing with it thru Telecom Easements. There's the catch, you deal with and are confusing Easement Sketches with Surveys, two completely different animals. Easements may show the overall property, but only addresses a small portion of the property being shown. The acreage on this sketches for the property is most likely taken from a deed and not actually surveyed to come up with the acreage. M&B with sketches are recorded, but not the surveys.

Doc Hayworth said:

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You mentioned dealing with it thru Telecom Easements. There's the catch, you deal with and are confusing Easement Sketches with Surveys, two completely different animals. Easements may show the overall property, but only addresses a small portion of the property being shown. The acreage on this sketches for the property is most likely taken from a deed and not actually surveyed to come up with the acreage. M&B with sketches are recorded, but not the surveys.

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There are surveys and then there are surveys.

The surveys that cause problems are the ones that were done for original patents or surveys for transactions and partitions in the early to mid 20th century. The older we're talking about, the more problems you are likely to find. The surveys that home owners get for residential tracts in new subdivisions are usually very good, given that they were done with modern equipment (usually, but not always). But, no matter how good your equipment is nowadays, if you call relies upon an original patent that wasn't laid out properly, or some partition or division that was done 75 years ago by someone who screwed up, you can end up with calls that don't square up with other tracts.

twk said:

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Doc Hayworth said:

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You mentioned dealing with it thru Telecom Easements. There's the catch, you deal with and are confusing Easement Sketches with Surveys, two completely different animals. Easements may show the overall property, but only addresses a small portion of the property being shown. The acreage on this sketches for the property is most likely taken from a deed and not actually surveyed to come up with the acreage. M&B with sketches are recorded, but not the surveys.

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There are surveys and then there are surveys.

The surveys that cause problems are the ones that were done for original patents or surveys for transactions and partitions in the early to mid 20th century. The older we're talking about, the more problems you are likely to find. The surveys that home owners get for residential tracts in new subdivisions are usually very good, given that they were done with modern equipment (usually, but not always). But, no matter how good your equipment is nowadays, if you call relies upon an original patent that wasn't laid out properly, or some partition or division that was done 75 years ago by someone who screwed up, you can end up with calls that don't square up with other tracts.

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I don't know what you consider good residential surveys, but the majority of them I have seen, are questionable to say the least, when talking about the boundaries and property lines and how they were established.
These surveys you call good is where I make a lot of money, as an expert witness to resolve conflicts or omissions due to the lack of following proper surveying procedures and practices.
I also disagree with your statement that the older the survey, the more problems you are likely to find. And I'm speaking from over 40 years of surveying experience.

I doesn't matter if your buddy had been paying taxes or not, if the rightful owner served your buddy with notice after finding out what he was doing, the time for adverse possession starts over at day one and he doesn't owe your buddy anything. He will just thank him for paying the taxes.
If he actually got paid back for taxes he paid, he was lucky the owner did not call his bluff.

"A relative of mine bought a half section from a family several years ago in which one of the brothers was against selling the land and didn't agree to it. Because of adverse possession, after a period of time (three years in that case), that brother could no longer win a lawsuit demanding that the land be returned to him."

I personally do not see where adverse possession has anything to do with this. The land was family owned, it sold and one brother was against the sale. Happens all the time. The land sold, therefore there is no adverse possession, with the land selling in fee.

Quote:

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I know this is Delaware but does Texas have any laws similar to this on the books?

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No
Feel good about that.

Texas does have similar laws.
Adverse possession can take place under the 3, 5, 10 or 25 year Statutes.
Each has their own requirements for filing and claiming property initially owned by someone else.

The difference with Texas compared to Delaware, is that Delaware has the 20 year uninterrupted time period for the adverse possession to become legal.

TaKe a mortgage/loan out on the property and see if they would take property from moneychangers.

TarponChaser said:

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cena05 said:

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This times 1000. Should I be able to receive your unclaimed money from www.claimittexas.gov since you aren't using it appropriately or may have forgotten about it?

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Regarding both, if a property owner dies with no heirs does their property, real or otherwise, escheat to the government?

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In Texas, no, as to real estate. Texas has no 'laughing heir' statute. Everyone has heirs, it's just a question of how far back you have to go to find them. .

doubledog said:

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CREAg87 said:

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Squatters rights are absolute nonsense.

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Who ever pays the property tax owns the land.
The "squatter" should be sued for back taxes at the very least.

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One would think that bolded statement is what would govern ownership, but it doesn't. As long as the tax collector gets paid, the government really doesn't get too concerned with who owns it. There is no connection between the county records office and the tax assessor collector office unless the taxes don't get paid.

When taxes are paid, the TAC doesn't look at the address on the check to make sure it matches the address where they send the notices.

Quote:

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"It can be shocking because most people don't know about it," Widener University law professor Serena Williams told the outlet about squatters rights in the state.

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Wait what?

richardag said:

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ProgN said:

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richardag said:

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I found this article:
Squatter's Rights in Texas. Everything you Need to Know.

• Meet all of the adverse possession elements mentioned above.
  Have continuous possession of the property for a minimum of 10 years.
  Timely pay the required state, county, or municipal property taxes for such property during the period in which the land has been occupied.

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Thank you, but I still think squatters rights is complete horse*****

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A case can be made that you are correct and squatters rights are complete horse***** There is also a case to be made that the owner by not paying property taxes and maintaining the property for 10 years relinquishes their rights to the person maintaining and paying the property taxes may have some rights to the property.

As always the devil is in the details of the laws as written and how best justice may be served.

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if someone is not paying taxes, why do you suddenly get to claim it as your own b/c you're paying the property taxes? Why does the State not simply put a lien on the property for the taxes owed and, once it gets to a point that is, say 150% of the appraised value, foreclose on the property and auction it off to the highest bidder?

Burdizzo said:

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doubledog said:

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CREAg87 said:

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Squatters rights are absolute nonsense.

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Who ever pays the property tax owns the land.
The "squatter" should be sued for back taxes at the very least.

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One would think that bolded statement is what would govern ownership, but it doesn't. As long as the tax collector gets paid, the government really doesn't get too concerned with who owns it. There is no connection between the county records office and the tax assessor collector office unless the taxes don't get paid.

When taxes are paid, the TAC doesn't look at the address on the check to make sure it matches the address where they send the notices.

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This begs the question - what is the point of government at all?

What is the point of a deed or title or survey if it essentially boils down to whomever can win an argument and as long as the .gov gets their money (and if none of the above actually matter or are accurate, how does the government decide how much your taxes are with respect to how much land you own?).

Throw another wrinkle in - say somebody has paid off the mortgage on their land and "own" it free and clear. As long as the government gets its taxes, somebody could come in and essentially buy the land from the government for the cost of taxes and get away with it?

How fuggin hard is it to draft a set of simple rules that get rid of this stupid gray area and the entire concept that somebody can come in on a piece of land and more to less steal it from the owner, so long as the government gets their annual extortion fee?

It is things like this that the government is supposed to exist for, and yet they readily admit that they have nothign to do with anything other than ensuring you are required by law to give them money every year forever...for no services.

agracer said:

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richardag said:

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ProgN said:

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richardag said:

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I found this article:
Squatter's Rights in Texas. Everything you Need to Know.

• Meet all of the adverse possession elements mentioned above.
  Have continuous possession of the property for a minimum of 10 years.
  Timely pay the required state, county, or municipal property taxes for such property during the period in which the land has been occupied.

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Thank you, but I still think squatters rights is complete horse*****

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A case can be made that you are correct and squatters rights are complete horse***** There is also a case to be made that the owner by not paying property taxes and maintaining the property for 10 years relinquishes their rights to the person maintaining and paying the property taxes may have some rights to the property.

As always the devil is in the details of the laws as written and how best justice may be served.

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if someone is not paying taxes, why do you suddenly get to claim it as your own b/c you're paying the property taxes? Why does the State not simply put a lien on the property for the taxes owed and, once it gets to a point that is, say 150% of the appraised value, foreclose on the property and auction it off to the highest bidder?

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That will happen. I had a friend whose mother's house was auctioned off because she didn't pay the taxes. She thought her ex-husband was paying them, but he wasn't.

Martin Cash said:

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TarponChaser said:

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cena05 said:

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This times 1000. Should I be able to receive your unclaimed money from www.claimittexas.gov since you aren't using it appropriately or may have forgotten about it?

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Regarding both, if a property owner dies with no heirs does their property, real or otherwise, escheat to the government?

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In Texas, no, as to real estate. Texas has no 'laughing heir' statute. Everyone has heirs, it's just a question of how far back you have to go to find them. .

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Texas passed a "laughing heir" statute in 2013 and is pretty much in line with the rest of the country now.

I've never had to mess with it but in my line of work (cell towers) I'm frequently dealing with tower leases that were signed 30 years ago and the original lessors have died and I'm working with their heirs. I have one right now in Mississippi where everyone within 2 degrees of kinship have passed and the ones we "think" are the rightful heirs are completely unresponsive. Meanwhile the man who married one of the heirs (since deceased) but is nowhere close to title because his FiL divvied up the property and subdivided it so he owns the adjacent parcel that was left to his wife has been paying property taxes and believes that he has the right to both the land and the tower lease proceeds.

It's a lot of fun and not at all complicated to navigate crap like that.

Ag_of_08 said:

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cena05 said:

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This times 1000. Should I be able to receive your unclaimed money from www.claimittexas.gov since you aren't using it appropriately or may have forgotten about it?

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More should I be able to illegally gain access to your garage, put a lock on your motorcycle, and when you don't use it for long enough claim the title.

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This post and the people who starred it have absolutely zero understanding of the concept. This ain't even an apples & oranges comparison it's more like apples & chicken feed.

The OP should have a bulldozer remove the squatter's property.

This would never happen to me, but if it did, I might be driven to murder this broad.

Rex Racer said:

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That will happen. I had a friend whose mother's house was auctioned off because she didn't pay the taxes. She thought her ex-husband was paying them, but he wasn't.

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Not doubting your story, but I am quite certain the friend's mom received more than one notice and an opportunity to pay the back taxes. She either got terribly bad advice that the problem was her ex-husband's or she just thought she could get away forever not paying it.

Its been a while since I looked at it, but the "person who pays the back taxes gets to keep the property" is a bit misleading. There is a process by which someone can pay those taxes and eventually acquire ownership - but it is a process.

This is not near the problem this thread is making it out to be.

agracer said:

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richardag said:

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ProgN said:

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richardag said:

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I found this article:
Squatter's Rights in Texas. Everything you Need to Know.

• Meet all of the adverse possession elements mentioned above.
  Have continuous possession of the property for a minimum of 10 years.
  Timely pay the required state, county, or municipal property taxes for such property during the period in which the land has been occupied.

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Thank you, but I still think squatters rights is complete horse*****

---

A case can be made that you are correct and squatters rights are complete horse***** There is also a case to be made that the owner by not paying property taxes and maintaining the property for 10 years relinquishes their rights to the person maintaining and paying the property taxes may have some rights to the property.

As always the devil is in the details of the laws as written and how best justice may be served.

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if someone is not paying taxes, why do you suddenly get to claim it as your own b/c you're paying the property taxes? Why does the State not simply put a lien on the property for the taxes owed and, once it gets to a point that is, say 150% of the appraised value, foreclose on the property and auction it off to the highest bidder?

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I am not an expert, but at one point it seems like the point was to get the land back into productive use. That said, you make a good point.

Doc Hayworth said:

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twk said:

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Doc Hayworth said:

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You mentioned dealing with it thru Telecom Easements. There's the catch, you deal with and are confusing Easement Sketches with Surveys, two completely different animals. Easements may show the overall property, but only addresses a small portion of the property being shown. The acreage on this sketches for the property is most likely taken from a deed and not actually surveyed to come up with the acreage. M&B with sketches are recorded, but not the surveys.

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There are surveys and then there are surveys.

The surveys that cause problems are the ones that were done for original patents or surveys for transactions and partitions in the early to mid 20th century. The older we're talking about, the more problems you are likely to find. The surveys that home owners get for residential tracts in new subdivisions are usually very good, given that they were done with modern equipment (usually, but not always). But, no matter how good your equipment is nowadays, if you call relies upon an original patent that wasn't laid out properly, or some partition or division that was done 75 years ago by someone who screwed up, you can end up with calls that don't square up with other tracts.

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I don't know what you consider good residential surveys, but the majority of them I have seen, are questionable to say the least, when talking about the boundaries and property lines and how they were established.
These surveys you call good is where I make a lot of money, as an expert witness to resolve conflicts or omissions due to the lack of following proper surveying procedures and practices.
I also disagree with your statement that the older the survey, the more problems you are likely to find. And I'm speaking from over 40 years of surveying experience.

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Congratulations on being an expert witness. I only report on what I've seen in about 30 years of practicing in this area of the law.

Over the past 15 years, we have dealt with rural, single-family parcels from Corpus to Sabine Pass and 3 to 4 counties in along the coast.

From that experience, the more remote the property usually means the older more incomplete the survey is and the more problems there are.

Modern surveys in residential. planned and platted communities should be addressed by title insurance, no?

Regarding confiscating unused property, I am all for it. If you want to keep it as your own private preserve, put up some signs, maybe a fence, and pay your friggin taxes. Maybe check on it once a year or so. Really minimum effort required to prevent almost all cases of adverse possession.

Also, you own land at the PERMISSION of the US gubmit. You have no "sovereign" right to your own plat of property. People need to understand that concept much better.

The way you keep the adverse possessor from accomplishing their mission to take your land, let them pay your taxes for 9 years and 11 months, then serve them a notice that they are trespassing and to vacate the property.

This will start the process over starting at day 1 of the 10 years. And you owe them nothing.

If you know under which statute they plan on filing a claim with, just wait a few months before the end date and serve papers.

fka ftc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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That will happen. I had a friend whose mother's house was auctioned off because she didn't pay the taxes. She thought her ex-husband was paying them, but he wasn't.

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Not doubting your story, but I am quite certain the friend's mom received more than one notice and an opportunity to pay the back taxes. She either got terribly bad advice that the problem was her ex-husband's or she just thought she could get away forever not paying it.

Its been a while since I looked at it, but the "person who pays the back taxes gets to keep the property" is a bit misleading. There is a process by which someone can pay those taxes and eventually acquire ownership - but it is a process.

This is not near the problem this thread is making it out to be.

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It's a true story, and I am not saying she doesn't bear responsibility. At all. My point was, it happens.