RebelE Infantry said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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My kind tends to be a boogeyman on this forum, so AMA and I'll do my best to answer.

Some basics :
My voting history is probably
60% Republican
30% Democrat
10% Libertarian
Obama is the only Democrat I've voted for as President but I have voted for plenty of democrats down ballot.

I am financially conservative and socially liberal. I have actually found that myself and most of my friends are moving farther left as we get older (late 30s now) - not sure if it's just a small sample size, or if my generation is bucking the trend of most people moving right as they age.

I still would say I lean right overall, but I'm probably left of 95% of this board.


Trump
I would never vote for Trump. One of my core beliefs about the Presidency is that they need to try and unite the country…. even if it's a token thought. Trump intentionally drove a wedge between the right and the left and danced on the graves of the democrats when things went his way. Trump may not have started the vitriol between the right and the left, but he did his damn best to drive that wedge as deep as possible because he thought it helped him politically.

If Trump is the Republican nominee, I will vote for whichever Democrat runs against him. If DeSantis or any of the more reasonable Republicans get the nod, I likely vote red.


Abortion :
Should be legal any time the mothers health is at risk, or in cases of rape and incest. I also think elective abortion should be legal for a certain period of time. I'm not smart enough to define the exact moment, but for a certain period of time, it should be legal for a woman to choose, for whatever reason she chooses, to have an abortion.


Gun Rights :
I own many firearms, including "semi-automatic assault rifles". (I worked in the industry for a while, so I'm using that term sarcastically). I am pro second amendment, however I do think that it should be harder to obtain firearms in some cases. I don't care about the slippery slope argument.


Gay Rights :
I 100% support gay rights in regards to marriage/adoption and want them to have every right and opportunity a straight married couple would have.


Transgender Rights :
I personally believe that a large percentage of transgender people are gay men or lesbian women. Some of the rest suffer from some sort of mental issue. I do believe there are two sexes, with a very small exception for intersex persons who are biologically in the gray area. When it comes to gender, if people want to use it to express "socially constructed roles/features" and say that there are more than two, I don't really care. You still are either biologically male or female though.

I still respect Transgender persons as human beings and want the best for them…. but a biological male shouldn't compete in women's sports for example.


Vaccines :
I think hindsight is 20/20 and knowing what we know now, we absolutely could have done things better. I got the vaccine and have no regrets. I also don't have a problem with companies mandating that you get it. They are private companies and can make whatever decisions they want and you can choose not to work or be a customer for them. However I DO have a problem with the government mandating companies to do anything. That's out of their lane.


Student Debt Forgiveness
Against. Students signed for those loans and should have known what they were getting into. I and many others paid our loans and/or tuition like adults. (Or some of our parents did it for us - not hating on those either). That being said, the government created this mess by insuring the loans driving the price way up. That is the big problem that needs to be fixed.


Fire away.

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Thanks rebel. I thought the same.

I think rebel and I would like to solve the puzzle.

1984 Democrats would be conservative by today's standards on many issues.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Quote:

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2. A divisive, misogynistic (also old) narcissist with ties to a child sex trafficker.

the fact that you believe this tells me you watch too much msm and put too much stock in what they say.

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Which one of those things is not accurate?
Divisive - easy why divisive? He pulled a higher percentage of the black and Latino vote than any GOP candidate since the 60's. If that doesn't indicate his message reaches people of varying backgrounds them please explain your take
Misogynistic - also easy you say easy. I say show me proof. His administration had more women in cabinet positions than any other to date. A person who hates women doesn't hire them to run his corporations (which he does or to run his cabinet
Old - factually trueBiden is 80. Trump is 76. You wanted someone even older with dementia to win. Don't complain about age when ur rooting for the oldest man in the race to win
Narcissist - easiest of the bunch. fair enough. TBF ALL politicians are narcissists. It's why they are in politics. But since u are adamant that is bad then tell me how Biden is less of a narcissist since u wanted him to win
Ties to a sex trafficker - there is photographic evidence. he literally banned epstein from his club once he found out epstein was what he was. Unlike Clinton he did not ride on epstein's private jet dozens and dozens of times. And ghilaine maxwell under oath and threat of purely exonerated him even when it would have been beneficial for her to say he participated in their schemes. There is zero proof he was and more proof that he abhorred epstein

What am I believing that's not true? I probably watch "MSM" three days a year, so you can't blame them.

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I have responded.

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Divisive - he drove people to the polls to vote AGAINST him more than any politician in history. you have zero proof of that. Maybe alot of people loved Biden. He is a very charismatic man. Hell u were rooting for him and you didn't even vote for him right? What we do know is that trump pulled a greater demographic of POC than any other republican ever. Most of the people who voted for Biden were educated liberal west coast females. Seems like Biden is the biggest divider.

Misogynistic - Miss Universe crap, sexualizing his own daughter, his general tone when discussing women leads you to believe that he thinks he is above them. Biden the guy you rooted for showers with his daughters. You don't have much of an argument there. Miss universe- so ur against women being admired for their beauty and talent? I bet u have never looked at porn or a sports illustrated issue or anything like that right? U don't like the way he talks about women? Give me an example. You mention tone- once again we get into an area where ur feelings matter more than the facts.

Old - they're both old. Trump and Biden are both older than Bill Clinton and George W Bush. you did not address my point. U complain about age and yet u are happy with a candidate half a decade older than Trump winning. Your complaint makes zero logical sense. Its okay for biden to be old because him winningmade u fell happy, but trump winning when he is younger was bad. You can't have it both ways.

Ties to a sex trafficker - he's in the book as flying with Epstein 7 times to the island and lying about that fact. this is news to me. Show me a link.

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Additionally- you never answered my question about dividing.

U complain that we are mote divided than ever. This is documented to have begun when Obama was first elected.

The people you wanted to win won 3/4 of the last presidential races.

And we are more divided now than ever. And you lay that blame entirely at Trump's door when ur guys were in power for far longer than Trump once the divisions really began- BLM started under Obama.

Do you REALLY think trump who take up 25% of that time is responsible for ALL that division? Mathematically unlikely especially since BLM etc. began during the Obama administration.

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It started before Obama
Obama made things worse (with policy, less with rhetoric)
Trump went Nuclear.

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Which of his policies were divisive?
Or was it trumps' rhetoric?
Please give examples.

Also you did not elaborate on examples of trump's misogyny. I gave examples showing he is not. You gave examples claiming it proved he was. I countered and you have failed to elaborate further.

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You're going to say are just my feelings anyway. Just a waste of time

Misogyny - dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women

I believe that accurately describes Trump. I honestly can't believe it's in question

Some quotes :
"I'm automatically attracted to beautiful women I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the *****. You can do anything."

[About a 10-year-old girl] "I am going to be dating her in 10 years. Can you believe it?"

"All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me - consciously or unconsciously. That's to be expected."

[About his daughter Ivanka] "… she does have a very nice figure. I've said if Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

[On women] "You have to treat 'em like *****"

"Women are really a lot different than portrayed. They are far worse than men, far more aggressive … "

"You're disgusting," to a breastfeeding mother when she asked for a medical break during a legal deposition so she could pump breast milk for her 3-month-old daughter.

You gave said some really strange **** on this board that make you look more than a little silly.

I only read the first page and a half so if someone has already had a similar comment, I apologize.

OP is the perfect example of what happens when you have a far left MSM and left social media push the same talking points over and over. Add in your friends and so forth doing the same. You slowly get nuanced into that thought process. It comes from all angles.

I can't necessarily blame them, it's the path of least residence. But that is what we are up against.

OP is a lib who forgot bridges are racist and need to be torn down.

CoachO_08 said:

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1984 Democrats would be conservative by today's standards on many issues.

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Both sides have moved farther to the left and right. Nobody wants to admit that everything was better when we were all closer to the middle.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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TheEternalPessimist said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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TheEternalPessimist said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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aggiez03 said:

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OP is a low information voter dressed as a Never-Trumper while posing as a CM...

And that is being nice so I don't catch a ban.


Reminds me of aggie93's signature line...

The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan.

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LOL, do you guys ever want to win an presidential election again? You NEED people like OP.

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The squishy middle is what gave rise to the far left.

We will win. Whether it's in the context of this country existing OR within the context of whatever comes next.

Those squishy middle folks are going to have to choose.

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Right, they've been voting for Dems and you're doing ZERO to attract young voters as well. Thanks for making my point.

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You are about to run into a major demographic problem… the only people who are having kids (at a 2-1 ratio nearly) is religious conservatives. And that number is increasing as well as the gap. The feminist movement is undermining itself by placing priority on career over childbirth and child rearing. The vast majority of babies you are aborting would have grown up to vote Democrats - they don't or won't exist. And an aging population in general with a lower birth rate (of which most being born will be in conservative homes) is a biggger issue as people become more conservative with age too. Pair this up with the rise of alternative media that is not beholden to the globalist agenda and increasing opposition to illegal immigration and what we have here is the recipe for a Conservative cultural revolution that will spell certain doom for leftist dominance in cultural institutions, media, education, and that will end far left ideologies like the LGBTQ movement and abortion on demand in perpetuity. We win and you lose. Get that through your thick skull!

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I was raised by religious conservatives. I'm moving further left as I get older. My best friends were (mostly) raised as religious conservatives and are farther left than me.

I don't think it's the ace in the hole that you think it is. I would venture to guess that our country will be more progressive in 20 years than it is right now.

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I doubt it. The policies you support are already crashing most liberal cities and states. There will either be a snap back because of the predictable failures of liberal policies, or there will be an economic reset, again due to liberal policies. Socialism never has worked and never will work and has never led a population to prosperity.

This thread is amazing. White guilt is a hell of a thing, and puss remains undefeated. This guy and his friends are flat RUN by their wives and it shows. Such weak men.

Financially conservative? Have you seen the Biden proposed budget released tonight? There are a half dozen tax increases, each of which would be classified as the largest tax increases in world history.

As the first poster said, you cannot be fiscally conservative and vote for a democrat, no matter what your social stances are, or should I say, what your wife's social stances are. They are incongruent with each other.

Great thread. I welcome your further political awakening when the the left comes for your wealth. I'm guessing that's when wifey changes your tune for you as the Nordstrom card gets cancelled.

kubiak03 said:

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I only read the first page and a half so if someone has already had a similar comment, I apologize.

OP is the perfect example of what happens when you have a far left MSM and left social media push the same talking points over and over. Add in your friends and so forth doing the same. You slowly get nuanced into that thought process. It comes from all angles.

I can't necessarily blame them, it's the path of least residence. But that is what we are up against.

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Jeeper79 said:

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CoachO_08 said:

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1984 Democrats would be conservative by today's standards on many issues.

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Both sides have moved farther to the left and right. Nobody wants to admit that everything was better when we were all closer to the middle.

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The GOP, with a few exceptions, has moved left on most issues.

How did Trump drive a wedge and divide people more than any other president? They media and the left, from day one when they were screaming in the streets and then pushing a fake Russia hoax, was manufactured unprecedented hate against him, via their millions of useful idiots.

Trump would attack the elites in politics and the media. Reagan bashed the liberal general populace way more than Trump ever did. Hillary, Obama, Biden…all did in disgusting ways. Literally basically called half of the country idiots, radicals, deplorables, and even domestic terrorists.

Show me one example of Trump directly attacking half of the citizenry like that. Hint: YOU CANT.

I'm a desantis guy all the way, but have to call that BS out. So dumb.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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TheEternalPessimist said:

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What's it like to grovel at the feet of neo-con warmongers and how many Americans need to die in the Middle East and Europe before enough is enough?

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I have no idea where this is coming from as I never posted any military thoughts other than my opinion that Biden is doing better than I expected at handling the Russia/Ukraine situation.

I'm kind of middle of the road when it comes to war in general. I support having a strong military so that we never have to use it. I appreciate that we don't have any (official) boots on the ground right now.

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Does that include the part where he said we would take out Nordstream, then Nordstream was taken out, raising gas prices and enabling the invasion? Let's also not forget that military success of leaving Afghanistan.

kubiak03 said:

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I only read the first page and a half so if someone has already had a similar comment, I apologize.

OP is the perfect example of what happens when you have a far left MSM and left social media push the same talking points over and over. Add in your friends and so forth doing the same. You slowly get nuanced into that thought process. It comes from all angles.

I can't necessarily blame them, it's the path of least residence. But that is what we are up against.

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Exactly. His positions are shallow and materialistic, and people like him without any real conviction are the reason that the country is tipping over to the left. "Moderates" are really just uninformed people unwilling to stand on principle that try to appease everyone by pretending to be bridge builders.

BG Knocc Out said:

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How did Trump drive a wedge and divide people more than any other president? They media and the left, from day one when they were screaming in the streets and then pushing a fake Russia hoax, was manufactured unprecedented hate against him, via their millions of useful idiots.

Trump would attack the elites in politics and the media. Reagan bashed the liberal populace way more than Trump ever did. Hillary, Obama, Biden…all ahe. Literally basically called half of the country idiots, radicals, deplorables, and even domestic terrorists.

Show me one example of Trump directly attacking half of the citizenry like that. Hint: YOU CANT.

I'm a desantis guy all the way, but have to call that BS out. So dumb.

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He did it himself and the media pushed that narrative because he gave them an ENDLESS supply of material in the form of his rallies, statements, tweets, etc. It was his OWN words.

TXAGFAN said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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My kind tends to be a boogeyman on this forum, so AMA and I'll do my best to answer.

Some basics :
My voting history is probably
60% Republican
30% Democrat
10% Libertarian
Obama is the only Democrat I've voted for as President but I have voted for plenty of democrats down ballot.

I am financially conservative and socially liberal. I have actually found that myself and most of my friends are moving farther left as we get older (late 30s now) - not sure if it's just a small sample size, or if my generation is bucking the trend of most people moving right as they age.

I still would say I lean right overall, but I'm probably left of 95% of this board.


Trump
I would never vote for Trump. One of my core beliefs about the Presidency is that they need to try and unite the country…. even if it's a token thought. Trump intentionally drove a wedge between the right and the left and danced on the graves of the democrats when things went his way. Trump may not have started the vitriol between the right and the left, but he did his damn best to drive that wedge as deep as possible because he thought it helped him politically.

If Trump is the Republican nominee, I will vote for whichever Democrat runs against him. If DeSantis or any of the more reasonable Republicans get the nod, I likely vote red.


Abortion :
Should be legal any time the mothers health is at risk, or in cases of rape and incest. I also think elective abortion should be legal for a certain period of time. I'm not smart enough to define the exact moment, but for a certain period of time, it should be legal for a woman to choose, for whatever reason she chooses, to have an abortion.


Gun Rights :
I own many firearms, including "semi-automatic assault rifles". (I worked in the industry for a while, so I'm using that term sarcastically). I am pro second amendment, however I do think that it should be harder to obtain firearms in some cases. I don't care about the slippery slope argument.


Gay Rights :
I 100% support gay rights in regards to marriage/adoption and want them to have every right and opportunity a straight married couple would have.


Transgender Rights :
I personally believe that a large percentage of transgender people are gay men or lesbian women. Some of the rest suffer from some sort of mental issue. I do believe there are two sexes, with a very small exception for intersex persons who are biologically in the gray area. When it comes to gender, if people want to use it to express "socially constructed roles/features" and say that there are more than two, I don't really care. You still are either biologically male or female though.

I still respect Transgender persons as human beings and want the best for them…. but a biological male shouldn't compete in women's sports for example.


Vaccines :
I think hindsight is 20/20 and knowing what we know now, we absolutely could have done things better. I got the vaccine and have no regrets. I also don't have a problem with companies mandating that you get it. They are private companies and can make whatever decisions they want and you can choose not to work or be a customer for them. However I DO have a problem with the government mandating companies to do anything. That's out of their lane.


Student Debt Forgiveness
Against. Students signed for those loans and should have known what they were getting into. I and many others paid our loans and/or tuition like adults. (Or some of our parents did it for us - not hating on those either). That being said, the government created this mess by insuring the loans driving the price way up. That is the big problem that needs to be fixed.


Fire away.

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None of your stated positions align with the Dem platform but do align with Trump policy.

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This level of gaslighting is why I keep coming back to this forum.

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Ok, the one you care about also aligns with the dem platform as well as Trump's policies. The rest do not align with Dem positions. Maybe you can show me otherwise.

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Still gaslighting. Impressive double down.

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If you say so. I noticed you didn't bother to point out exactly how I am "gaslighting".

Kvetch said:

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kubiak03 said:

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I only read the first page and a half so if someone has already had a similar comment, I apologize.

OP is the perfect example of what happens when you have a far left MSM and left social media push the same talking points over and over. Add in your friends and so forth doing the same. You slowly get nuanced into that thought process. It comes from all angles.

I can't necessarily blame them, it's the path of least residence. But that is what we are up against.

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Exactly. His positions are shallow and materialistic, and people like him without any real conviction are the reason that the country is tipping over to the left. "Moderates" are really just uninformed people unwilling to stand on principle that try to appease everyone by pretending to be bridge builders.

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And he's class of '86…not '26. So you can only imagine how they think. Our nation is so f***ed.

Kvetch said:

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kubiak03 said:

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I only read the first page and a half so if someone has already had a similar comment, I apologize.

OP is the perfect example of what happens when you have a far left MSM and left social media push the same talking points over and over. Add in your friends and so forth doing the same. You slowly get nuanced into that thought process. It comes from all angles.

I can't necessarily blame them, it's the path of least residence. But that is what we are up against.

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Exactly. His positions are shallow and materialistic, and people like him without any real conviction are the reason that the country is tipping over to the left. "Moderates" are really just uninformed people unwilling to stand on principle that try to appease everyone by pretending to be bridge builders.

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Excellent summation. I like mine better: Puss remains undefeated. These are his wife's positions, therefore they are his

BG Knocc Out said:

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Kvetch said:

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kubiak03 said:

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I only read the first page and a half so if someone has already had a similar comment, I apologize.

OP is the perfect example of what happens when you have a far left MSM and left social media push the same talking points over and over. Add in your friends and so forth doing the same. You slowly get nuanced into that thought process. It comes from all angles.

I can't necessarily blame them, it's the path of least residence. But that is what we are up against.

---

Exactly. His positions are shallow and materialistic, and people like him without any real conviction are the reason that the country is tipping over to the left. "Moderates" are really just uninformed people unwilling to stand on principle that try to appease everyone by pretending to be bridge builders.

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And he's class of '86…not '26. So you can only imagine how they think. Our nation is so f***ed.

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born in 86. He said mid to late 30s

GOP/Trump platforms are for less abortion restriction, gay marriage, and more restriction on guns? Shocked given your first reply and second said not just those, but his other comments do not "align with the Dem platform but do align with Trump policy"

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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"I have actually found that myself and most of my friends are moving farther left as we get older."

Can you explain this? How can you watch the government screw up so many things and the progressives spin so many economic and societal fairy tales and think "what we need is more government involvement with everything!"?

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I was raised by a mother who was very Republican. (My dad didn't really care about politics, or at least didn't share his thoughts).

When I was in college, I considered myself a Republican and voted for Republicans. As I kind of grew up and learned more about my actual own beliefs, I realized that I agreed with the Democrats more than the Republicans on social issues. I believe in some government spending and taxes which conflicts with my financial conservatism. For example - I believe that Social Security is a needed program.

I don't know if it is directly correlated, but I also found myself moving further left during Trump's presidency.

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I know you've been blasted by messages and can't respond to all of them but I'm hoping you take the time to answer one more question. I'm genuinely curious.

I've done a lot of financial analytics over my career and one irrefutable truth is that eventually the numbers are what they are. Eventually data noise isn't noise, it's your signal. I think we've reached that point with a lot of the left's major causes. Social security is 90 years old and will be pushing bankruptcy on its centennial. State run pensions everywhere are going bankrupt and threatening the retirements of armies of people. We have 30 trillion of debt (and the concomitant financial commitments) that we racked up during a period of low interest rates and which will become back breaking as we have to roll them over at higher rates. Democrat run cities are disasters, public schools exist to serve teachers unions (the fallout from the covid lockdowns is still years off), and minority families are crumbling.

So my question is, what data are you looking at that makes you think the left's game plan is working? Because of somebody put these results in front of me, the subject line of my email to the c-suite would be "total failure, time to pull the plug."

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We would have to tackle those one-by-one

Social Security - I think it is needed, but demographics have changed where updates are needed. Higher taxes and a higher retirement age to start.

30 Trillion of debt - both parties rack up the debt and don't seem to have a problem with it. Democrats are definitely worse, but I'm further to the conservative side than both parties.

City / Local politics have nothing to do with the Presidential election or anything I can effect. I pay attention to my local government, but Portland / Austin / San Fran etc. can ruin themselves if they want to. I can't do anything about it, so I don't worry about it.


Again, I want to emphasize that I don't think the Left's policies are working. I don't support most of them.

I lean right somewhere around 60/40 or 55/45…. but that puts me on the left-most 5% of posters on this board so I tend to do a little goal-tending from people way further right than me.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Quote:

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2. A divisive, misogynistic (also old) narcissist with ties to a child sex trafficker.

the fact that you believe this tells me you watch too much msm and put too much stock in what they say.

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Which one of those things is not accurate?
Divisive - easy why divisive? He pulled a higher percentage of the black and Latino vote than any GOP candidate since the 60's. If that doesn't indicate his message reaches people of varying backgrounds them please explain your take
Misogynistic - also easy you say easy. I say show me proof. His administration had more women in cabinet positions than any other to date. A person who hates women doesn't hire them to run his corporations (which he does or to run his cabinet
Old - factually trueBiden is 80. Trump is 76. You wanted someone even older with dementia to win. Don't complain about age when ur rooting for the oldest man in the race to win
Narcissist - easiest of the bunch. fair enough. TBF ALL politicians are narcissists. It's why they are in politics. But since u are adamant that is bad then tell me how Biden is less of a narcissist since u wanted him to win
Ties to a sex trafficker - there is photographic evidence. he literally banned epstein from his club once he found out epstein was what he was. Unlike Clinton he did not ride on epstein's private jet dozens and dozens of times. And ghilaine maxwell under oath and threat of purely exonerated him even when it would have been beneficial for her to say he participated in their schemes. There is zero proof he was and more proof that he abhorred epstein

What am I believing that's not true? I probably watch "MSM" three days a year, so you can't blame them.

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I have responded.

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Divisive - he drove people to the polls to vote AGAINST him more than any politician in history.

Misogynistic - Miss Universe crap, sexualizing his own daughter, his general tone when discussing women leads you to believe that he thinks he is above them.

Old - they're both old. Trump and Biden are both older than Bill Clinton and George W Bush.

Ties to a sex trafficker - he's in the book as flying with Epstein 7 times to the island and lying about that fact.

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Did you want to talk about Biden's track record on these points?

Showered with his daughter until after she was uncomfortable with it, swimming nude in front of female agents, and accused of rape by Tara Reade.

And can we talk about corruption?

Most of the "divisiveness" was fabricated by the dems, the media, and the intelligence agencies. Do you or do you still believe the Russia hoax?

Wrec86 Ag said:

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BQAg84 said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Obama is the only Democrat I've voted for as President

Trump
I would never vote for Trump. One of my core beliefs about the Presidency is that they need to try and unite the country…. even if it's a token thought. Trump intentionally drove a wedge between the right and the left and danced on the graves of the democrats when things went his way.

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Does not compute. Obama was the biggest wedge driver in my lifetime, he just had better media cover / coverage, and had no problem dancing on the graves of Republicans and people he didn't like, characterizing them as "enemies" and telling his followers to "get in their faces."

Not defending Trump for his flaws, but he was never allowed to be a uniter as he was under attack from the moment the smoke cleared on the 2016 election.

Biden is simply a cipher for Obama or whomever is running Obama.

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Hard disagree that Obama was a bigger wedge driver than Trump.

I'll give you that the train started way before either of them, and Obama did his fair share, but it takes some crazy red tinted shades to not think Trump was a bigger issue IMO.

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Not even remotely a Trump supporter, but this is a bad take to bad take all bad takes.


Obama was a horrible PotUS, massive divider. Biden just stepped it up a notch.

BigRobSA said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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BQAg84 said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Obama is the only Democrat I've voted for as President

Trump
I would never vote for Trump. One of my core beliefs about the Presidency is that they need to try and unite the country…. even if it's a token thought. Trump intentionally drove a wedge between the right and the left and danced on the graves of the democrats when things went his way.

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Does not compute. Obama was the biggest wedge driver in my lifetime, he just had better media cover / coverage, and had no problem dancing on the graves of Republicans and people he didn't like, characterizing them as "enemies" and telling his followers to "get in their faces."

Not defending Trump for his flaws, but he was never allowed to be a uniter as he was under attack from the moment the smoke cleared on the 2016 election.

Biden is simply a cipher for Obama or whomever is running Obama.

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Hard disagree that Obama was a bigger wedge driver than Trump.

I'll give you that the train started way before either of them, and Obama did his fair share, but it takes some crazy red tinted shades to not think Trump was a bigger issue IMO.

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Not even remotely a Trump supporter, but this is a bad take to bad take all bad takes.


Obama was a horrible PotUS, massive divider. Biden just stepped it up a notch.

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Race relations consistently improved in this country until Obama decided he wanted to build his coalition of the dispossessed. Policy-wise he was terrible.

He's a talented orator that fools idiots into thinking he's a talented president.

BG Knocc Out said:

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Kvetch said:

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kubiak03 said:

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I only read the first page and a half so if someone has already had a similar comment, I apologize.

OP is the perfect example of what happens when you have a far left MSM and left social media push the same talking points over and over. Add in your friends and so forth doing the same. You slowly get nuanced into that thought process. It comes from all angles.

I can't necessarily blame them, it's the path of least residence. But that is what we are up against.

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Exactly. His positions are shallow and materialistic, and people like him without any real conviction are the reason that the country is tipping over to the left. "Moderates" are really just uninformed people unwilling to stand on principle that try to appease everyone by pretending to be bridge builders.

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And he's class of '86…not '26. So you can only imagine how they think. Our nation is so f***ed.

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86 was my football number. I'm class of '09

As to the rest - I hardly ever watch the news. When I do, it's 50/50 CNN and Fox News. (CNN is better at breaking news)

I probably check into the news 5 times a year? And I mostly ignore the topic online. I'm probably more ignorant than I should be on certain topics, but I definitely haven't been overly influenced by the MSM.

TheEternalPessimist said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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If you think Christianity is going to bring the conservatives back to power, I have some bad news for you.

?w=553

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Wait on the birth rates of the last decade or so to catch up.

It's inevitable.

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Plus. "only" 63% is plenty to snap the country back away from its path to socialism. Sure it's lower than it was, but it's still enough.

You are 95% correct.

WHOOP!'91 said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Quote:

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2. A divisive, misogynistic (also old) narcissist with ties to a child sex trafficker.

the fact that you believe this tells me you watch too much msm and put too much stock in what they say.

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Which one of those things is not accurate?
Divisive - easy why divisive? He pulled a higher percentage of the black and Latino vote than any GOP candidate since the 60's. If that doesn't indicate his message reaches people of varying backgrounds them please explain your take
Misogynistic - also easy you say easy. I say show me proof. His administration had more women in cabinet positions than any other to date. A person who hates women doesn't hire them to run his corporations (which he does or to run his cabinet
Old - factually trueBiden is 80. Trump is 76. You wanted someone even older with dementia to win. Don't complain about age when ur rooting for the oldest man in the race to win
Narcissist - easiest of the bunch. fair enough. TBF ALL politicians are narcissists. It's why they are in politics. But since u are adamant that is bad then tell me how Biden is less of a narcissist since u wanted him to win
Ties to a sex trafficker - there is photographic evidence. he literally banned epstein from his club once he found out epstein was what he was. Unlike Clinton he did not ride on epstein's private jet dozens and dozens of times. And ghilaine maxwell under oath and threat of purely exonerated him even when it would have been beneficial for her to say he participated in their schemes. There is zero proof he was and more proof that he abhorred epstein

What am I believing that's not true? I probably watch "MSM" three days a year, so you can't blame them.

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I have responded.

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Divisive - he drove people to the polls to vote AGAINST him more than any politician in history.

Misogynistic - Miss Universe crap, sexualizing his own daughter, his general tone when discussing women leads you to believe that he thinks he is above them.

Old - they're both old. Trump and Biden are both older than Bill Clinton and George W Bush.

Ties to a sex trafficker - he's in the book as flying with Epstein 7 times to the island and lying about that fact.

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Did you want to talk about Biden's track record on these points?

Showered with his daughter until after she was uncomfortable with it, swimming nude in front of female agents, and accused of rape by Tara Reade.

And can we talk about corruption?

Most of the "divisiveness" was fabricated by the dems, the media, and the intelligence agencies. Do you or do you still believe the Russia hoax?

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No, "whataboutism" bothers me and I was talking about Trump, not Biden.

I don't like either of them, so someone saying "yeah, but Biden is also bad" doesn't do anything for me.

Bridge builder? Are you f'n serious? That corrupt dip**** hasn't accomplished one single positive thing for America in nearly 50 years of elected "service". He makes Carter look competent.

Trump is an arrogant blowhard that I wouldn't invite into my house, but my bank account and investments were far better under him.

Biden is a brain dead clown thar should've been put out to pasture years ago. What bridges has he built? He's not even in charge. He's Obama's go-fer boy.

Jeeper79 said:

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CoachO_08 said:

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1984 Democrats would be conservative by today's standards on many issues.

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Both sides have moved farther to the left and right. Nobody wants to admit that everything was better when we were all closer to the middle.

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I like to call this graph the radicalization of the concerned moderate.



Here's the 2017 poll with a data set dating back about 30 years.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/

In 2021, Pew realized the left had become so radicalized that the median had sprinted off the left end of the data set. So they re-imagined the poll to array the left and right on separate spectrums.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology-2/

TXAGFAN said:

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GOP/Trump platforms are for less abortion restriction, gay marriage, and more restriction on guns? Shocked given your first reply and second said not just those, but his other comments do not "align with the Dem platform but do align with Trump policy"

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OP is not for birthday abortions like mainstream Dems are.
OP is not for banning "assault weapons" like Dems are.
OP is not for men competing against women like Dems are.


Would it be acceptable to say OPs positions are MORE aligned to Trump's the Dems'?

Saying you value anything financial, and then voting against your own financial self interest is quite the conundrum .

Bonfire1996 said:

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Saying you value anything financial, and then voting against your own financial self interest is quite the conundrum .

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Money isn't everything, social conservatives must agree with that statement as well or they'd adjust their views.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Quote:

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2. A divisive, misogynistic (also old) narcissist with ties to a child sex trafficker.

the fact that you believe this tells me you watch too much msm and put too much stock in what they say.

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Which one of those things is not accurate?
Divisive - easy why divisive? He pulled a higher percentage of the black and Latino vote than any GOP candidate since the 60's. If that doesn't indicate his message reaches people of varying backgrounds them please explain your take
Misogynistic - also easy you say easy. I say show me proof. His administration had more women in cabinet positions than any other to date. A person who hates women doesn't hire them to run his corporations (which he does or to run his cabinet
Old - factually trueBiden is 80. Trump is 76. You wanted someone even older with dementia to win. Don't complain about age when ur rooting for the oldest man in the race to win
Narcissist - easiest of the bunch. fair enough. TBF ALL politicians are narcissists. It's why they are in politics. But since u are adamant that is bad then tell me how Biden is less of a narcissist since u wanted him to win
Ties to a sex trafficker - there is photographic evidence. he literally banned epstein from his club once he found out epstein was what he was. Unlike Clinton he did not ride on epstein's private jet dozens and dozens of times. And ghilaine maxwell under oath and threat of purely exonerated him even when it would have been beneficial for her to say he participated in their schemes. There is zero proof he was and more proof that he abhorred epstein

What am I believing that's not true? I probably watch "MSM" three days a year, so you can't blame them.

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I have responded.

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Divisive - he drove people to the polls to vote AGAINST him more than any politician in history.

Misogynistic - Miss Universe crap, sexualizing his own daughter, his general tone when discussing women leads you to believe that he thinks he is above them.

Old - they're both old. Trump and Biden are both older than Bill Clinton and George W Bush.

Ties to a sex trafficker - he's in the book as flying with Epstein 7 times to the island and lying about that fact.

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Did you want to talk about Biden's track record on these points?

Showered with his daughter until after she was uncomfortable with it, swimming nude in front of female agents, and accused of rape by Tara Reade.

And can we talk about corruption?

Most of the "divisiveness" was fabricated by the dems, the media, and the intelligence agencies. Do you or do you still believe the Russia hoax?

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No, "whataboutism" bothers me and I was talking about Trump, not Biden.

I don't like either of them, so someone saying "yeah, but Biden is also bad" doesn't do anything for me.

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But you will vote for one of them, but not the other. The one you will vote for has terrible policies and is at least as bad as Trump in the topics you say make Trump so odious.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Quote:

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2. A divisive, misogynistic (also old) narcissist with ties to a child sex trafficker.

the fact that you believe this tells me you watch too much msm and put too much stock in what they say.

---

Which one of those things is not accurate?
Divisive - easy why divisive? He pulled a higher percentage of the black and Latino vote than any GOP candidate since the 60's. If that doesn't indicate his message reaches people of varying backgrounds them please explain your take
Misogynistic - also easy you say easy. I say show me proof. His administration had more women in cabinet positions than any other to date. A person who hates women doesn't hire them to run his corporations (which he does or to run his cabinet
Old - factually trueBiden is 80. Trump is 76. You wanted someone even older with dementia to win. Don't complain about age when ur rooting for the oldest man in the race to win
Narcissist - easiest of the bunch. fair enough. TBF ALL politicians are narcissists. It's why they are in politics. But since u are adamant that is bad then tell me how Biden is less of a narcissist since u wanted him to win
Ties to a sex trafficker - there is photographic evidence. he literally banned epstein from his club once he found out epstein was what he was. Unlike Clinton he did not ride on epstein's private jet dozens and dozens of times. And ghilaine maxwell under oath and threat of purely exonerated him even when it would have been beneficial for her to say he participated in their schemes. There is zero proof he was and more proof that he abhorred epstein

What am I believing that's not true? I probably watch "MSM" three days a year, so you can't blame them.

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I have responded.

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Divisive - he drove people to the polls to vote AGAINST him more than any politician in history.

Misogynistic - Miss Universe crap, sexualizing his own daughter, his general tone when discussing women leads you to believe that he thinks he is above them.

Old - they're both old. Trump and Biden are both older than Bill Clinton and George W Bush.

Ties to a sex trafficker - he's in the book as flying with Epstein 7 times to the island and lying about that fact.

---

Did you want to talk about Biden's track record on these points?

Showered with his daughter until after she was uncomfortable with it, swimming nude in front of female agents, and accused of rape by Tara Reade.

And can we talk about corruption?

Most of the "divisiveness" was fabricated by the dems, the media, and the intelligence agencies. Do you or do you still believe the Russia hoax?

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No, "whataboutism" bothers me and I was talking about Trump, not Biden.

I don't like either of them, so someone saying "yeah, but Biden is also bad" doesn't do anything for me.

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Biden's not "also bad"…that MF'er was pushin segregation in 1980 while Trump was hangin out with black leaders, saying he didn't want his Lilly white future deviant crackhead children to grow up in a "racial jungle". He literally called about half of the country "domestic terrorists". Hillary and Obama called us stupid and deplorable, amongst other things. Please show me where Trump antagonized half of the American citizenry like this.

He didn't even call out BLM and Antifa like he should have imo.