Doubling down on stupid I see.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

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So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

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Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

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So when is the fetus considered a child?

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At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

hoopla said:

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Are there any "pure" rights that can not be legally suspended while incarcerated?

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No. We all submit ourselves to a governing body. If that governing body is unduly impinging upon our rights, we overthrow it.

Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

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So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

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Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

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So when is the fetus considered a child?

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At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

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After the birth, the child, while continuing cell division, is also completely dependent on others to remain alive, and would likely die within hours if not shielded from the outside world and fed. Those seem like extraordinary measures. So really a child doesn't count as a person until maybe 5years... maybe 6 or later. Until then, F'em... they're parasites that don't deserve to be protected from anything that wants to take them out.

Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

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So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

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Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

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So when is the fetus considered a child?

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At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

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You gave 2 different criteria. First you said birth. Then you said routine viability without extraordinary measures. I am assuming that your second statement was a clarification of the first.

So according to your definition- survivability without extraordinary measures these individuals can be killed because they have no viability without extraordinary measures.

1) people needing a ventilator.
2) people on dialysis- they need a machine to filter out toxins. Without this they will die.
3) people with a pacemaker. Without a pacemaker they will have a heart attack.
4) people who need colostomy bags. Without them crap will fill up in their body and they will go into sepsis.
5) anyone who needs an AED to be revived.
6) diabetics who without an glucose monitor and insulin calculator because without their insulin will die in a few weks

Are there any other criteria? Or are you okay with aborting the above mentioned people who meet your criteria?

Babies are human beings who have a right to bodily autonomy.

I'm not actually willing to have a discussion on this, or rationalize my decision. What I say is final, and there are no arguments that have ever existed, nor will ever exist that support abortion - no goofy hypotheticals, no 0.001% situations, nothing, zilch, zero, nada. Leave children alone.

Phatbob said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

---

So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

---

Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

---

So when is the fetus considered a child?

---

At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

---

After the birth, the child, while continuing cell division, is also completely dependent on others to remain alive, and would likely die within hours if not shielded from the outside world and fed. Those seem like extraordinary measures. So really a child doesn't count as a person until maybe 5years... maybe 6 or later. Until then, F'em... they're parasites that don't deserve to be protected from anything that wants to take them out.

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At that point, there are plenty of others that can take direct custody of that child to voluntarily provide for those needs without government coercion.

Are there? Last I heard is there are many children who need adoption. Kind of like dogs and cats. What do we do with them when the shelters are overrun….?

Bubblez said:

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Phatbob said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

---

So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

---

Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

---

So when is the fetus considered a child?

---

At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

---

After the birth, the child, while continuing cell division, is also completely dependent on others to remain alive, and would likely die within hours if not shielded from the outside world and fed. Those seem like extraordinary measures. So really a child doesn't count as a person until maybe 5years... maybe 6 or later. Until then, F'em... they're parasites that don't deserve to be protected from anything that wants to take them out.

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At that point, there are plenty of others that can take direct custody of that child to voluntarily provide for those needs without government coercion.

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What if they don't want them? If no one wants to take custody of that child, if they would be too much of a burden? Surely then it's fine to make them go away, since the desirability of the child is what is important...

Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

---

So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

---

Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

---

So when is the fetus considered a child?

---

At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

---

You gave 2 different criteria. First you said birth. Then you said routine viability without extraordinary measures. I am assuming that your second statement was a clarification of the first.

So according to your definition- survivability without extraordinary measures these individuals can be killed because they have no viability without extraordinary measures.

1) people needing a ventilator.
2) people on dialysis- they need a machine to filter out toxins. Without this they will die.
3) people with a pacemaker. Without a pacemaker they will have a heart attack.
4) people who need colostomy bags. Without them crap will fill up in their body and they will go into sepsis.
5) anyone who needs an AED to be revived.
6) diabetics who without an glucose monitor and insulin calculator because without their insulin will die in a few weks

Are there any other criteria? Or are you okay with aborting the above mentioned people who meet your criteria?

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All of those actions are after birth, of course, and those individuals performing them are all paid in one way or another to do so, and take those actions voluntarily.

astros4545 said:

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OP just keeps getting dunked on repeatedly

But it's his right to get beat into submission due to lack of knowledge and common sense, I support her

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They aren't smart enough to comprehend that their positions can't withstand scrutiny.

Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

---

So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

---

Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

---

So when is the fetus considered a child?

---

At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

---

You gave 2 different criteria. First you said birth. Then you said routine viability without extraordinary measures. I am assuming that your second statement was a clarification of the first.

So according to your definition- survivability without extraordinary measures these individuals can be killed because they have no viability without extraordinary measures.

1) people needing a ventilator.
2) people on dialysis- they need a machine to filter out toxins. Without this they will die.
3) people with a pacemaker. Without a pacemaker they will have a heart attack.
4) people who need colostomy bags. Without them crap will fill up in their body and they will go into sepsis.
5) anyone who needs an AED to be revived.
6) diabetics who without an glucose monitor and insulin calculator because without their insulin will die in a few weks

Are there any other criteria? Or are you okay with aborting the above mentioned people who meet your criteria?

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All of those actions are after birth, of course, and those individuals performing them are all paid in one way or another to do so, and take those actions voluntarily.

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And the mother of said unborn child TOOK something voluntarily (99% of the time) and got pregnant.

How about this:

Which one of these "clumps of cells" counts as a human life, or worthy of being considered to be a person?

A. Gestation period of 7 1/2 months. Normal pregnancy. Mother and Father both want the child.

B. Gestation period of 8 1/2 months, healthy pregnancy but child has Downs Syndrome. Parents are aware and want to keep the child.

C. Gestation period of 8 1/2 months, healthy pregnancy but child has Downs Syndrome. Parents just found out and do not want to live a life taking care of a child with Downs Syndrome.

D. Gestation period of 8 1/2 months. Normal pregnancy. Mother decides she does not want to have the child as the father leaves town.

Ask yourself what the difference in the answers for those different scenarios means about life you consider to be worthwhile.

Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Bubblez said:

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Individual liberty with respect to bodily autonomy trumps everything else without restrictions, including those that would preclude removing what effectively is a parasite.

---

So you view children as parasites?

Hope ur not a parent. And if u are then God help ur children.

---

Children are independent living beings, they aren't parasites. Cell division going on inside a womb, completely dependent on the host is another matter.

---

So when is the fetus considered a child?

---

At birth. If you want to intrude on individual liberty then a point at routine viability without extraordinary measures would be a place to do it.

---

You gave 2 different criteria. First you said birth. Then you said routine viability without extraordinary measures. I am assuming that your second statement was a clarification of the first.

So according to your definition- survivability without extraordinary measures these individuals can be killed because they have no viability without extraordinary measures.

1) people needing a ventilator.
2) people on dialysis- they need a machine to filter out toxins. Without this they will die.
3) people with a pacemaker. Without a pacemaker they will have a heart attack.
4) people who need colostomy bags. Without them crap will fill up in their body and they will go into sepsis.
5) anyone who needs an AED to be revived.
6) diabetics who without an glucose monitor and insulin calculator because without their insulin will die in a few weks

Are there any other criteria? Or are you okay with aborting the above mentioned people who meet your criteria?

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All of those actions are after birth, of course, and those individuals performing them are all paid in one way or another to do so, and take those actions voluntarily.

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I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you clarify?

Those individuals performing them is alot of prepositions and you were not specific.

Who are those individuals and performing what? The procedures I described above?

hoopla said:

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Bodily autonomy is the concept that legal adults should have absolute control over what does and does not happen to their own body.

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Period. End of discussion.

JamesPShelley said:

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hoopla said:

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Bodily autonomy is the concept that legal adults should have absolute control over what does and does not happen to their own body.

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Period. End of discussion.

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Except body autonomy does not mean "no consequences for what I do with my body".

Period. End of discussion

'No Man is an Island' John Donne.
What you do to yourself effects the people around you.
So the answer to the OPs question is no.

FlyRod said:

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I support women not being allowed to die, or be brought to the brink of death because state legislators consider them livestock rather than people.

Seems pretty straightforward, but to people who think of women as "incubator vessels" and not human being with autonomy, "bodily autonomy" is an impossible concept to grasp.

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You realize, don't you, that every law within the United States that restricts abortion, allows exceptions to save the life of the mother.

Please provide some documentation of people thinking of women as "incubator vessels" and not human beings.

"Bodily autonomy" ends when it affects someone else.