B-1 83 said:

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Science Denier said:

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If teachers want SS, surrender everything they have in TRS and get SS.

That's why they were allowed to not have their money confiscated by the government for SS.

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What if they get a job after retiring as a teacher, and pay their quarters? Do they collect, does the government steal what they put in, or should they be able to forgo paying into SS in that second job?

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Yes. My wife taught for a long time, but had a job in HS and college and got most of her time there. We opened a business and only needed a handful of quarters,so her salary completed her required quarters.

The OP was about those that never paid in. If they don't pay into SS, I should not have to fund their wish to get SS.

Not necessarily. If your pension benefit pays you enough, you will not receive any social security, no matter how much you paid in. That's the windfall the original bill was looking to correct. But now it's a punishment for people of work more than 1 job or of work in the private section before/after public service.

Understood, but I believe there is still an "offset" where collecting one negates or greatly reduces what the other would be to "non-double dippers".

UTExan said:

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safelightKL said:

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UTExan said:

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/government-pensioners-look-to-elbow-into-social-security-talks/ar-AA18bCuW?cvid=d63b70a2287e46b688cc00d175a06d90

Summary:
" For about 2 million people, the windfall elimination provision applies a less generous formula for Social Security benefits to retirees with income from employment that didn't pay into the Social Security system, including state and local government jobs, employers in foreign countries as well as federal agencies prior to 1984."

"For about 735,000 people, the government pension offset cuts spousal, widow or widower benefits for those with their own pensions from work not covered by Social Security. That Carter-era change was intended to limit benefits for those who aren't financially dependent on their spouse given their own employment."

"Both provisions were aimed at reducing unfairly high payouts from Social Security. But many lawmakers, public workers and retiree groups now say the decades-old changes went too far and punish teachers, police officers, firefighters, government workers and others who've prioritized public service."

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Takeaway: they and their employers could have paid into social security but didn't.

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Why shouldn't they at least get 1/2 their spouses SS like every other person in country? If a wife doesn't work or if she is married to man who is independently wealthy, she still gets 1/2 his SS even if she never paid a dime. Shouldn't the same rule apply to to people who worked for the state, federal, or local government?

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Because the spouse paid in while they/their employer did not?

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But when they get their spouse's SS, it's reduced because of their retirement plan whereas a spouse who never worked gets the full spouse's benefit. It doesn't make sense.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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Any teacher who retired at 50 either also had somewhat other significant income, continued to work as a 1099 employee, no longer had a mortgage payment, or was getting by with only the bare essentials. With the way the calculate the TRS, at best they may have $40k in retirement before taxes. Any teacher retired on solely their TRS may barely be qualified as middle income level.

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The husband retired as a principal and the wife retired as a teacher (or maybe one of the many created non-teacher admin positions these days), so it is two TRS retirements. They probably did pay off their home before retirement.

Good for them on that score, but I really don't give a **** what they make. Everyone thought they retired too young, but that is a choice they made and they should have to live with without outside help.

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And you make a good point. With a dual income (and obviously the former principal would have a higher retirement income) it is definitely a better situation, but my wife and I are about those ages and we'd still like to travel a lot after retirement, so we'll work longer and have other retirement investments. Of course we just pray there will still be funds to pay us when we do retire. She may have to start dancing at night again....

B-1 83 said:

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Understood, but I believe there is still an "offset" where collecting one negates or greatly reduces what the other would be to "non-double dippers".

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Don't think so. You pay tax on SS if you make more than a certain amount, but I don't think they offset TRS any more than they offset any other pension/retirement program.

Science Denier said:

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If you pay into SS, you will get SS screwed. Same as everyone.

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FIFY

My wife is a former teacher. Paid in for about 15 years and then left to the corporate world. I think you all are misunderstanding their complaint. Their pension replaces social security but the fact that they have a pension also prevents them from getting social security from their spouse if they die. That penalty makes their situation different from the corporate world or even a nonworking spouse. What the Carter administration said was that because your plan is better than social security you don't deserve access to your spouse's social security. They are claiming that is not fair.

I am getting screwed paying into a social security system that they get a much better program to replace with the only drawback being this one point that their spouse's benefits after death are dramatically reduced. I would still take their system.

If you want to truly solve this issue, you give them two options.

1. You cancel their current pension and convert it to social security credits to give them social security payments. In doing the quick math, this cuts their current income in half. They get the survivor benefits on their spouse's ss.

2. They stick with their better plan and shut up.

Science Denier said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Science Denier said:

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If teachers want SS, surrender everything they have in TRS and get SS.

That's why they were allowed to not have their money confiscated by the government for SS.

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I'm staff at TAMU-CC.

I pay into TRS AND SS. Sucks...Better not give me a deduction due to the TRS thing.

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If you pay into SS, you will get SS. Same as everyone.

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He needs to look into that. I got SS card while mowing yards at age 12. Paid in for all my jobs, Army, a little RR retirement that converted to SS, then went into teaching. Had odd jobs where I paid in while teaching. Retired from schools, then taught at private schools, then taught at Charter as independent contractor (double SS payment for me, then sold Real Estate (double SS paid in for sales). I was forced into Medicare (just as soon pay another way) and went to draw SS at age 66- because if you wait, then you work all you want and not get penalized. I qualified for over $1000 a month SS from what I put in. They pro rated it due to TRS, and after they take their Medicare out they send me $300 a month-- which they tax, LOL (Biden's law). Wife just turned 65-- lol she was knocked down to 130 a month and her Medicare is 141-- we send them back $11.00 a month, if we can get their dumbasses to set it up for us-- you call and get 4 different answers.

Just as soon not have it. Fixing to turn 70 and still work 20 hours a week. giving them more I will never see.

Demosthenes81 said:

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What I want is that my Social Security benefits that I earned when I participated in it not be penalized when I start withdrawing money from my Optional Retirement Plan that I was part of when I worked for a job not under SS.

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They won't. Your ORP is not a pension.

jagvocate said:

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It's all going to come crashing down so no worries

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They won't let that. It's too politically valuable. You and I will continue to pay into a system we will never benefit from because we "make too much".

LoudestWHOOP! said:

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Ag with kids said:

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eric76 said:

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How does Texas teachers retirement pay in comparison to Social Security? My impression is that it is pretty generous, but I may be wrong.

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2.3% * # years worked * Avg(Top 5 years salary).

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My wife's not quite 50 yo boss at an ISD is about 2 years from 30 years at the ISD with TRS.
The boss told my wife that they will make 100% of their salary after retirement. (over $100k)
The boss started at the right time, so that helps.
The plan has been less generous over the years with different tiers ... if I understand it correctly.

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You need 44 years of service in TRS to retire at 100% salary.

Ag with kids said:

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Science Denier said:

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If teachers want SS, surrender everything they have in TRS and get SS.

That's why they were allowed to not have their money confiscated by the government for SS.

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I'm staff at TAMU-CC.

I pay into TRS AND SS. Sucks...Better not give me a deduction due to the TRS thing.

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My cousin paid into both for 35 years and gets both, so you should be good.

Mathguy64 said:

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LoudestWHOOP! said:

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Ag with kids said:

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eric76 said:

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How does Texas teachers retirement pay in comparison to Social Security? My impression is that it is pretty generous, but I may be wrong.

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2.3% * # years worked * Avg(Top 5 years salary).

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My wife's not quite 50 yo boss at an ISD is about 2 years from 30 years at the ISD with TRS.
The boss told my wife that they will make 100% of their salary after retirement. (over $100k)
The boss started at the right time, so that helps.
The plan has been less generous over the years with different tiers ... if I understand it correctly.

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You need 44 years of service in TRS to retire at 100% salary.

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I agree with 44 years getting 101.2%.
I was under the impression that the people who started about 35-40+ years ago had a better percentage.
It is all second hand info, so I could easily be mistaken.
But my wife has heard it from multiple people in the ISDs out here that started at the ISD nearly right out of High School and worked 30+ years.
Maybe they got over $100K, which they were all making more than that the last 5 years, and I got the 100 from there.

They changed the rule of 80 to a rule of 90 to draw TRS and the went from a max 3 year average to a max 5 year. The multiplier went from 2.2 to 2.3 maybe 20 years ago. Maybe longer.

Owlagdad said:

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Science Denier said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Science Denier said:

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If teachers want SS, surrender everything they have in TRS and get SS.

That's why they were allowed to not have their money confiscated by the government for SS.

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I'm staff at TAMU-CC.

I pay into TRS AND SS. Sucks...Better not give me a deduction due to the TRS thing.

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If you pay into SS, you will get SS. Same as everyone.

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He needs to look into that. I got SS card while mowing yards at age 12. Paid in for all my jobs, Army, a little RR retirement that converted to SS, then went into teaching. Had odd jobs where I paid in while teaching. Retired from schools, then taught at private schools, then taught at Charter as independent contractor (double SS payment for me, then sold Real Estate (double SS paid in for sales). I was forced into Medicare (just as soon pay another way) and went to draw SS at age 66- because if you wait, then you work all you want and not get penalized. I qualified for over $1000 a month SS from what I put in. They pro rated it due to TRS, and after they take their Medicare out they send me $300 a month-- which they tax, LOL (Biden's law). Wife just turned 65-- lol she was knocked down to 130 a month and her Medicare is 141-- we send them back $11.00 a month, if we can get their dumbasses to set it up for us-- you call and get 4 different answers.

Just as soon not have it. Fixing to turn 70 and still work 20 hours a week. giving them more I will never see.

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This is what makes no sense.

agclassof08 said:

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Currently in public service. I don't pay into SS right now. However, I have had jobs that did prior to public service. That money is gone. I work side jobs that pay into SS and will continue to until I retire. I won't see any of that money either. I don't necessarily want the SS benefit because I will have a pension, but if I could just get what I paid in back, that would be great.

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Whatever credits you paid into SS stay there. You must have 120 quarters (30 years) to get FULL benefits, but At retirement age, benefits are prorated per quarters accredited plus amount contributed per my understanding.

UTExan said:

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agclassof08 said:

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Currently in public service. I don't pay into SS right now. However, I have had jobs that did prior to public service. That money is gone. I work side jobs that pay into SS and will continue to until I retire. I won't see any of that money either. I don't necessarily want the SS benefit because I will have a pension, but if I could just get what I paid in back, that would be great.

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Whatever credits you paid into SS stay there. You must have 120 quarters (30 years) to get FULL benefits, but At retirement age, benefits are prorated per quarters accredited plus amount contributed per my understanding.

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There are a lot of people on here who don't fully understand how SS works, specifically GPO and WEP. A lot of people could benefit from good professional advice, especially teachers and other folks with pensions who just assume their pensions will take care of them.

The key to getting passed the WEP is years of substantial earnings (different than qualified quarters). Someone who fully earns themselves out of the clawback/reduction and gets both can be in a great spot. What really gets me is municipal employees - some pay in and some don't, so you can work a similar job for 30 years and not fully earn either benefit.

Like anything government sponsored, it's far from perfect. Personal responsibility and financial planning can go a long way when done early to take advantage of how it's written.

I had over 12 yrs in public/private sector work paying into SS with many years paying in the max SS before 34 yrs of Fed work not paying SS. I retired at age 65. My "deserved" SS based on yrs (or quarters) worked under SS should receive over $1,200/mo. After Part B Medicare comes out, I draw -$550/mo. My wife had similar work years in accounting before teaching school under TRS. Of course her pay as a teacher was not great. We both retired at about the same time (her ~4 mos. before me & she is 2 yrs younger). I think my wife retired from teaching under the "Rule of 80". Neither of us will have any spousal benefits from each others SS due to GPO. WEP knocks down our "deserved" SS by over 50%. All our SS, TRS, & CSRS pensions are taxed. We JUST want what was "promised" to us from our SS "contributions". #REPEAL WEP/GPO #REFORM WEP/GPO.

Spider69 said:

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I had over 12 yrs in public/private sector work paying into SS with many years paying in the max SS before 34 yrs of Fed work not paying SS. I retired at age 65. My "deserved" SS based on yrs (or quarters) worked under SS should receive over $1,200/mo. After Part B Medicare comes out, I draw -$550/mo. My wife had similar work years in accounting before teaching school under TRS. Of course her pay as a teacher was not great. We both retired at about the same time (her ~4 mos. before me & she is 2 yrs younger). I think my wife retired from teaching under the "Rule of 80". Neither of us will have any spousal benefits from each others SS due to GPO. WEP knocks down our "deserved" SS by over 50%. All our SS, TRS, & CSRS pensions are taxed. We JUST want what was "promised" to us from our SS "contributions". #REPEAL WEP/GPO #REFORM WEP/GPO.

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But you knew that going in or staying in a lucrative job with a lucrative (civil service?) pension scheme. What is your Fed pension? 78% of base income? What is hers?
And if you had a good job with income to invest, shouldn't you be a millionaire after 34 years of work?

Yep, the WEP penalizes those who contributed to SS and then worked in a Teachers Retirement job. I paid into SS enough quarters to qualify. However, since I also receive TRS pension, instead of getting the amount of SS
I am due, it was reduced by $800 a month.

turfman80 said:

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Yep, the WEP penalizes those who contributed to SS and then worked in a Teachers Retirement job. I paid into SS enough quarters to qualify. However, since I also receive TRS pension, instead of getting the amount of SS
I am due, it was reduced by $800 a month.

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Did you pay SS working that TRS job?

OP (and some others here) need to do a little research on WEP and GPO. If one works in the private sector full time for 30 years or more, they will get social security they paid into. If you worked for less, you will get a lesser percentage of the social security benefit you earned when you collect your retirement from the public sector job that falls under WEP.

As an example, I worked in Engineering while in the private sector , paying into what was supposed to be for my social security. While the WEP was started sometime AFTER I began teaching, I was not informed about WEP when it was put into place. As a result, I will recieve 40% of the social security I paid into, and my wife (also a teacher after 27 years in the private sector) will have her social security she paid into reduced as well.
My advice is to never enter the public sector ( teaching, fire fighting, law enforcement,etc) without understanding the rules as government established. If I had to do it again, I would have never left industry.
By keeping 60% of the money I (and others) paid in my earlier career, I consider this blatant theft by the US Government.

No. But there was no SS credit from that, only from the time I spent in private employment.

turfman80 said:

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No. But there was no SS credit from that, only from the time I spent in private employment.

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True, but the monthly benefit you paid into while in private employment has been reduced by $800, is that not so?

UTExan said:

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But you knew that going in or staying in a lucrative job with a lucrative (civil service?) pension scheme. What is your Fed pension? 78% of base income? What is hers?
And if you had a good job with income to invest, shouldn't you be a millionaire after 34 years of work?

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My Federal pension is nice, but I invested 7% (before taxes) into it, too, plus I had a 403B savings plan that I maxed my allowed annual savings into as well. Why is it NOT fair to expect to receive all the SS benefit $s that were expected by the SS formulas from the REQUIRED "contributed" $s from my pre Federal employment? If you consider ~ $8,000/yr a "WINDFALL", then that might be "fair". Yes, I knew going in what I was sacrificing by public service and it's "rewards". I wouldn't change a thing, except wish that I had the opportunity at my Public Service position earlier in my career.

My CSRS pension is nearer 60% than 78% of my gross "high 5 yr" salary. AND per Travis County Tax Appraisal District, I'm well beyond "a MILLIONAIRE" status.

StonewallAggieDEFENSE said:

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turfman80 said:

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No. But there was no SS credit from that, only from the time I spent in private employment.

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True, but the monthly benefit you paid into while in private employment has been reduced by $800, is that not so?

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Yes.... I was responding to agwithkids and should have used the quote. I agree with you. The government screwed us

Ellis Wyatt said:

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schmellba99 said:

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You don't pay in, you don't draw out.

Seems like a pretty simple concept. Yet the government has managed to eff it up so far, and will probably do more damage as the "it's not fair!!!!!" generations take control.

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Yep. More will be stolen from those of us who don't have an employer retirement plan and who work 12 months a year.

I remember the specific 50 year olds (might have been 55) retiring and then bragging about getting a condo in Ruidoso or somewhere. I have no doubt they are currently *****ing about not getting COLA adjustments now that they've been retired 15 or 20 years.

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This times 1000.

Never worked for a company with a pension plan. They had retirement plans that required employees pay into the plan to get any benefits. We had to pay in 2 - 6% of your gross pay, money was invested and eventually you could retire pull it out and put in an IRA(2 profit sharing plans and one 401k). I had been paying in to SS since I was 16 years old.

Our Federal government has consistently screwed everything they touched. Bureaucratic bull***** Buying votes is the only explanation.

We are living the reason my Grandfather refused to take Roosevelt dimes in change. He knew what the hell was going to happen.

Mathguy64 said:

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LoudestWHOOP! said:

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Ag with kids said:

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eric76 said:

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How does Texas teachers retirement pay in comparison to Social Security? My impression is that it is pretty generous, but I may be wrong.

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2.3% * # years worked * Avg(Top 5 years salary).

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My wife's not quite 50 yo boss at an ISD is about 2 years from 30 years at the ISD with TRS.
The boss told my wife that they will make 100% of their salary after retirement. (over $100k)
The boss started at the right time, so that helps.
The plan has been less generous over the years with different tiers ... if I understand it correctly.

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You need 44 years of service in TRS to retire at 100% salary.

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Don't know about TRS but you only need about 37 years in ERS to match your take home pay, because you are no longer paying about 15% of your salary into SS and ERS pension. If you stay until you reach 100% you will take home more than you did while working.