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DNA from fingernails can be iffy, I've never had a manicure so I don't know how deep they clean for those. I'll defer to someone else on that, lol.

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During manicures, hands, fingernails are soaked in warm soapy water for a bit. Hand as then dried off, undernail beds are scraped, then nails are trimmed, filed, put back into water to get all of the nail filing dust off. You change hands into the soapy water as the other is being worked on. They then slather both of your hands in lotion. Take nail polish remover to remove the lotion from the nails, top and under nails. Sometimes one hand is worked on while the other has the lotion and is placed in heated mitt until the other hand has the polish applied. And then the other hand gets the same treatment.

Hard to see where the manicure process would leave much under the nails and certainly not on nail clippings. I don;t think she wore acrylic nails either that I have seen.

aggiehawg said:

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redcrayon said:

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ArcticPenguin said:

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Been in Europe for work, and reading hawg's daily threads but no news coverage where I was. Got home today and watched some of Alex's testimony. He was extremely believable.

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Yeah, he was surprisingly believable to me.

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Shows he really is an addict going through recovery everyday. He even said on the stand today that he is still an addict. Doesn't mean he's using, just means he's aware he has an addiction and is taking one day at a time.

Look, I understand he's a bad guy and he'll be in prison for a long time irrespective of what happens in this trial. But he is a man who knows his addiction got him to this place. Whether it was being too permissive with his sons, too distant with his wife, just phoning his relationships in? He knows his addiction brought down his entire family, their law firm, their legacy.

For a once proud Southern family going back generation after generation, that leaves a mark and a hole that will never go away. Buster is Alex's namesake. His life is screwed unless he changes it or moves way out of SC and the South. (And gets some hair dye.)

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can anyone explain how AM was fat/obese WHEN TAKING DRUGS LIKE A MULE

and skinny after he gets off the drugs in prison?

Not a Bot said:

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LMCane said:

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you can not be serious.

there is literally no intelligent observer of the dozens of lies and crimes that Alex Murdaugh has committed who would possibly believe anything that monster says.

are there really Americans who are either so naive or stupid

to believe someone who LITERALLY IN THIS VERY TRIAL ADMITTED TO PERJURY not just once, but multiple times.

but sure- now he is telling the truth!

OMG I can't take this populace anymore

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"He's a liar. So we can't believe what he says. Therefore, if he denies killing his wife and son, he must have murdered his wife and son."

Prosecutors get false convictions on this logic all the time. The whole "he's the kind of person who would xyz..." is not allowed in court for this reason, but prosecutors skirt around this by doing what they did in this trial. Judges are supposed to gatekeep prior bad acts and character evidence because it results in incredible prejudice to the defendant.

I have no idea whether he's telling the truth about killing his wife and kid, but the state's other evidence isn't enough even if you want to rely on him being a liar to get a conviction.

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That's not at all what I said.

I stated that ANYONE WHO BELIEVES a word out of this guy's mouth is not very intelligent.

at the same time, as an attorney- there is a burden of proof the state must meet.

those are two very different concepts. I'm not arguing that he should be found guilty of murder because he is an inveterate liar (although it is clearly prejudicial)

however to blithely state "he seemed believable to me" is just ridiculous

he spent 4o years in courts and is a sociopath drug addict and embezzler- which he has ADMITTED TO.

LMCane said:

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can anyone explain how AM was fat/obese WHEN TAKING DRUGS LIKE A MULE

and skinny after he gets off the drugs in prison?

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Quote:

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Does Oxycodone Abuse Affect Your Weight?

Because oxycodone affects how you think, feel and eat, it affects your weight. One common sign of oxycodone addiction is sudden or unexplained weight gain or weight loss. Other drugs have a similar effect on your appetite, weight and overall health.

Today's Dietitian explains, "Substance abuse generally leads to a lack of proper nutrition, either as a result of not eating enough throughout the day or eating foods that are low in necessary nutrients. Certain substances, such as stimulants, may suppress appetite and disrupt metabolic and neuroendocrine regulation, leading to improper calorie consumption and impaired nutrient processing. Other substances may lead to an increase in appetite, causing weight gain."2
Because using a drug like oxycodone becomes a priority, individuals don't pay attention to eating well. A person with addiction will not get the necessary nutrition or balanced calories needed for his or her body to maintain a healthy weight.

Oxycodone's Effects on Fitness

Addiction can also affect your energy and activity levels. Oxycodone can cause individuals to feel sleepy, lethargic or unmotivated. Improper nutrition and depressed mood can worsen these effects. A person may gain weight or simply be less healthy as a result of being less physically active.

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https://www.michaelshouse.com/blog/how-oxycodone-affects-your-eating-habits-and-appetite/


Plus stress does wonders for weight loss and I imagine he isn't enjoying the same diet in jail that he was as a big shot attorney.

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NM

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LMCane said:

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Not a Bot said:

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LMCane said:

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you can not be serious.

there is literally no intelligent observer of the dozens of lies and crimes that Alex Murdaugh has committed who would possibly believe anything that monster says.

are there really Americans who are either so naive or stupid

to believe someone who LITERALLY IN THIS VERY TRIAL ADMITTED TO PERJURY not just once, but multiple times.

but sure- now he is telling the truth!

OMG I can't take this populace anymore

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"He's a liar. So we can't believe what he says. Therefore, if he denies killing his wife and son, he must have murdered his wife and son."

Prosecutors get false convictions on this logic all the time. The whole "he's the kind of person who would xyz..." is not allowed in court for this reason, but prosecutors skirt around this by doing what they did in this trial. Judges are supposed to gatekeep prior bad acts and character evidence because it results in incredible prejudice to the defendant.

I have no idea whether he's telling the truth about killing his wife and kid, but the state's other evidence isn't enough even if you want to rely on him being a liar to get a conviction.

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That's not at all what I said.

I stated that ANYONE WHO BELIEVES a word out of this guy's mouth is not very intelligent.

at the same time, as an attorney- there is a burden of proof the state must meet.

those are two very different concepts. I'm not arguing that he should be found guilty of murder because he is an inveterate liar (although it is clearly prejudicial)

however to blithely state "he seemed believable to me" is just ridiculous

he spent 4o years in courts and is a sociopath drug addict and embezzler- which he has ADMITTED TO.

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So you believe him when he admits to certain offenses?

Quote:

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I stated that ANYONE WHO BELIEVES a word out of this guy's mouth is not very intelligent.

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I think Murdaugh walks and I will be happy if he does. I'm pulling for the guy

LegalDrugPusher said:

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I think Murdaugh walks and I will be happy if he does. I'm pulling for the guy

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That's not right. Pulling for him. He'll be in prison forever anyway for his financial crimes.

Not about if he is really innocent of the murders. What this case is about is if a very horrible thief, embezzler, perjurer. committed dual murders of his wife and son.

Prosecution rested without proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it.

Period.

LegalDrugPusher said:

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I think Murdaugh walks and I will be happy if he does. I'm pulling for the guy

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hilarious sarcasm is hilarious

So I watched the Netflix series that has been discussed on this thread.

It is told mostly from the point of view of the boat crash survivors minus Paul.

No doubt about it that Paul was evidently a huge ass hat when he was drunk and his wealth and family privilege had led him to that point in his life where he didn't understand his actions have consequences. I'm good with blaming his parents for enabling him and being largely responsible for the little **** he developed into. However, I do take exception to the way they tried to make it seem like there was something sinister about Alex and his dad (Paul's grandpa) showing up at the hospital and telling all the kids to not talk to the police. They are both attorneys and would understand that only bad can come from talking to the police, especially since the kids were intoxicated and in shock. It was good legal advice, even though it may have kind of looked like an ******* move. Nothing they told the police at the hospital was going to help the police find Mallory and the police were absolutely NOT there with the intention of gathering information to help with the search. They were investigating a crime, and talking to police that are investigating a crime is almost always a horrible idea, especially with no attorney present.

Also, the show and the kids tried to make it seem like Murdaughs were so all powerful that they had the entire county in their back pocket and could easily get away with murder, yet ultimately Paul was charged with 3 felonies and the criminal case was ongoing when he was murdered. They tried to make it seem like Paul was not in jail because of who he was, but that is just the way our bail system works. People are NOT put in jail before their trials as punishment, they are put in jail if they are a risk to not show up to their trial or if they are a risk to society. Because of who Paul was, the court determined he was not a flight risk or risk to society, so I guess in a way he wasn't in jail because he was a Murdaugh, but that doesn't mean he was escaping punishment.

Also, I don't really buy that the housekeeper was intentionally killed. Alex wasn't even at the house when she fell down the stairs. Only Paul and Maggie were. The housekeeper was apparently like a 2nd mother to Paul, so hard to believe he would have intentionally harmed her. I definitely think Alex took that opportunity to make some easy money, and he stole it, but to me its a real stretch to think it was a conspiracy between Paul/Maggie/Alex to intentionally kill her for the money.

Don't know what to think about the story about the gay kid that got killed. All Netflix provided was a bunch of audio clips of pure speculation and hearsay "I heard the Murdaughs had something to do with it." His death is suspicious though, but I'd have to see a lot more about it to formulate any kind of opinion.

I also watched the Netflix doc this weekend and thought it was interesting but based mostly on the boating accident. Question about when Alex showed up to the hospital. In the Netflix footage and hospital scene recreation, Alex had a black shirt on with khakis. When the prosecution showed the picture of him at the hospital trying to gain access to off limit areas with his badge, he had a white shirt on. The prosecution led me to believe that the picture was the night of the accident. Is that even an important detail?

The main thing I learned from Netflix is how many different ways to pronounce his name. It seemed like every person interviewed pronounced it in their own way

Alex Murdaw
Alec Murdaw
Alex Murdock
Alec Murdock
Alex Murdog
Alec Murdog
Alex Murtaw
Alec Murtaw
Alex Murtog
Alex Murtog

And I'm sure I missed some

Regardless, he's definitely a thieving scumbag but I don't think they proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he's a killer. Just too little evidence presented and tons of folks had motive to kill

unmade bed said:

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So I watched the Netflix series that has been discussed on this thread.

It is told mostly from the point of view of the boat crash survivors minus Paul.

No doubt about it that Paul was evidently a huge ass hat when he was drunk and his wealth and family privilege had led him to that point in his life where he didn't understand his actions have consequences. I'm good with blaming his parents for enabling him and being largely responsible for the little **** he developed into. However, I do take exception to the way they tried to make it seem like there was something sinister about Alex and his dad (Paul's grandpa) showing up at the hospital and telling all the kids to not talk to the police. They are both attorneys and would understand that only bad can come from talking to the police, especially since the kids were intoxicated and in shock. It was good legal advice, even though it may have kind of looked like an ******* move. Nothing they told the police at the hospital was going to help the police find Mallory and the police were absolutely NOT there with the intention of gathering information to help with the search. They were investigating a crime, and talking to police that are investigating a crime is almost always a horrible idea, especially with no attorney present.

Also, the show and the kids tried to make it seem like Murdaughs were so all powerful that they had the entire county in their back pocket and could easily get away with murder, yet ultimately Paul was charged with 3 felonies and the criminal case was ongoing when he was murdered. They tried to make it seem like Paul was not in jail because of who he was, but that is just the way our bail system works. People are NOT put in jail before their trials as punishment, they are put in jail if they are a risk to not show up to their trial or if they are a risk to society. Because of who Paul was, the court determined he was not a flight risk or risk to society, so I guess in a way he wasn't in jail because he was a Murdaugh, but that doesn't mean he was escaping punishment.

Also, I don't really buy that the housekeeper was intentionally killed. Alex wasn't even at the house when she fell down the stairs. Only Paul and Maggie were. The housekeeper was apparently like a 2nd mother to Paul, so hard to believe he would have intentionally harmed her. I definitely think Alex took that opportunity to make some easy money, and he stole it, but to me its a real stretch to think it was a conspiracy between Paul/Maggie/Alex to intentionally kill her for the money.

Don't know what to think about the story about the gay kid that got killed. All Netflix provided was a bunch of audio clips of pure speculation and hearsay "I heard the Murdaughs had something to do with it." His death is suspicious though, but I'd have to see a lot more about it to formulate any kind of opinion.

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WOW! I am cheap and hate Netflix so I'll never watch that but that is a gross distortion if that is what they portrayed.

I have been watching a few streams from The Interview Room with the retired detective Chris McDonough today. Have to say what he doesn't know about the Murdaugh case is a lot. Yet he's so proud that Nancy Grace wants him on her Fox Nation show tonight.

Anyway things a cop doesn't know. Murdaugh's firm was mostly Personal Injury. They are not called ambulance chasers for nothing. THEY USE POLICE SCANNERS ALL OF THE TIME. Maybe not the partners but someone has the late night shift and will send out the message.* So all of the firm members being alerted that something had happened at Moselle involving Alex would definitely be spread like wild fire. Indeed, most if not all of the lawyers besides Alex's brother Randy said they were called by someone else, not Alex. So those things in the McDonough video bothered me.

And he went into the case of the Smith kid too. Made the statement that the Murdaughs, Alex and John Marvin showed up where that body was found, too, late in the evening. There are two ways of looking at that assuming it even happened. Alex as the ambulance chaser who had a connection with the family because Buster was a few years ahead of him in high school, perhaps? Kid was openly gay and did not run in the same circle as Buster ever did but PI lawyers gonna be PI lawyers. What they do. What they have always done.

It comes back to the fundamental question: Has the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Alex Murdaugh had two guns, shot both his son and wife sometime during the evening of June 7, 2021?

As much as I belived Derek Chauvin was a complete POS, double that for Alex. But being a liar, a bully, a massice thied and embezzler, a drug addict and all of the other fraud he committed, did he murder them? Then did a completely masterful job of cleaning up, disposing of the clothes and weapons in a matter of a few minutes?

Still seeing reasonable doubt. I hate this case.

If Alex Murdaugh is found not guilty, him and Casey Anthony can hook up and start life together.

I just finished watching the 2nd episode and Alex and Randolph did more than tell the kids not to talk to the police. They lied. Specifically, Alex said he was Morgan's counsel AND guardian. That is pretty damn sinister. My biggest take away is how traumatized those kids are. They are all seriously effed up with survivors guilt and need some intensive therapy.

Psycho Bunny said:

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If Alex Murdaugh is found not guilty, him and Casey Anthony can hook up and start life together.

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He's still going to be in prison for mostly the rest of his life because of financial crimes. Just maybe not maximum security if he's not convicted of murder.

That having been said, if he is convicted there are some issues on appeal. If reversed and remanded would they spend the massive amount of money to retry him, if he's still in prison for the next 30 years anyway?

And tried to pin Connor Cook as the driver of the boat, despite all the other passengers (less Mallory Beach of course) stating that Paul was driving.

ArcticPenguin said:

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I just finished watching the 2nd episode and Alex and Randolph did more than tell the kids not to talk to the police. They lied. Specifically, Alex said he was Morgan's counsel AND guardian. That is pretty damn sinister. My biggest take away is how traumatized those kids are. They are all seriously effed up with survivors guilt and need some intensive therapy.

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TheRatt87 said:

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And tried to pin Connor Cook as the driver of the boat, despite all the other passengers (less Mallory Beach of course) stating that Paul was driving.

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I don't think any of them said Alex or Randolph was telling them to say Connor was driving (at least not that night in the hospital). They all said Alex just told them to STFU and not say anything to cops. That was not bad advice, even though it mostly benefited whoever was potentially criminally culpable (which ended up being Paul) but it is impossible to assume Alex knew that at the time he was just providing those kids (that he evidently knew somewhat well) with what I consider good advice.

I agree it was not cool if he lied to the hospital staff about being that one girls attorney or guardian, but also keep in mind that all of their comments now have the benefit of hindsight with the knowledge that Alex is a piece of crap.

That night when Alex showed up at the hospital he wanted to try to tell all the other kids not to talk to the cops anymore that night. Nothing about that is wrong and it doesn't indicate a sign of some evil conspiracy to screw those kids over to save his son (although don't get me wrong, I think he most certainly would do that).

it does say AM had taken out a commercial insurance policy on the property where the Gloria Satterfield died, and that he collected $4.3 million on that policy.

I think AM hired someone to kill PM & MM, and the same guy was probably hired to kill Stephen Smith.

suburban cowboy said:

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it does say AM had taken out a commercial insurance policy on the property where the Gloria Satterfield died, and that he collected $4.3 million on that policy.

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That is inaccurate. Alex had a 5 million dollar unbrella policy on top of his homeowners policy when Gloria died. He enouraged her sons to sue, got them separate counsel, to sue him for her death. Homeowners paid 500K and the umbrella "settled" for 3,8 million. Thereafter, his umbrella policy was not renewed.

It was then that he obtained a commercial policy on the Moselle property as a business conducting shooting and hunting business.

When the boat crash happened at the overall Murdaugh family's river property, had nothing to do with the so-called business so the only coverage applicable to the boat crash was the boat policy. That limit was $500,000.

He lied and said he was Morgan's guardian and counsel. You do understand he could get disbarred for that right? It is HIGHLY UNETHICAL.

In addition, he had a MAJOR conflict of interest due to his son being involved. If you don't understand that his motive was very bad for he did, I don't know what to tell you

ArcticPenguin said:

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He lied and said he was Morgan's guardian and counsel. You do understand he could get disbarred for that right? It is HIGHLY UNETHICAL.

In addition, he had a MAJOR conflict of interest due to his son being involved. If you don't understand that his motive was very bad for he did, I don't know what to tell you

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He's already been disbarred.

you are just wrong

the young adults ABSOLUTELY claimed that it was Alex that was trying to pin the driving (hence the accident) on Connor and not on his son.

go back and rewatch it.

aggiehawg said:

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ArcticPenguin said:

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He lied and said he was Morgan's guardian and counsel. You do understand he could get disbarred for that right? It is HIGHLY UNETHICAL.

In addition, he had a MAJOR conflict of interest due to his son being involved. If you don't understand that his motive was very bad for he did, I don't know what to tell you

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He's already been disbarred.

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Fair enough, I am sure for a many reasons, and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't one of them.

Quickest way to get your ticket ripped is to take client funds. That is automatic. There is zero defense to that.

ArcticPenguin said:

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He lied and said he was Morgan's guardian and counsel. You do understand he could get disbarred for that right? It is HIGHLY UNETHICAL.

In addition, he had a MAJOR conflict of interest due to his son being involved. If you don't understand that his motive was very bad for he did, I don't know what to tell you

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Where are you getting that I said its not that bad if he lied about being Morgan's guardian and attorney?

I definitely said that was not cool if that happened. From the Netflix show, that is what Morgan's mom claimed happened before she arrived, but I have not seen any hospital employees claiming that this happened. So coming from Morgan's mom it is at the very least 2nd hand information.

From the Netflix show, Morgan specifically said that Alex was tapping on her door while she was being stitched up and she told the nurse to keep him out of her room. Morgan never once said that Alex talked to her that night - just that he was tapping on her door.

Netflix did a good job of confusing the viewer with the fake videos they used supposedly depicting Alex walking around gladhanding hospital employees and whispering in kids ears as the parents talked about their suspicions that Alex and Randolph care more about framing Connor than finding Mallory, but that video is not the actual video - its a re-enactment. As someone point out above, Alex isn't even wearing the same clothes as shown in the actual video of him in the hospital.

There is no indication, that Alex talked to Miley Altman at all at the hospital. She hasn't claimed he did, nor did Netflix indicate there was any interaction between Miley and Alex. Miley gave the police a statement the next day where she said she was pretty sure Paul was driving but couldn't be sure because Connor was also driving every now and then when Paul would just leave the steering wheel unattended or would be doing donuts, etc. They were both sitting on the bench behind the wheel. That is why there was confusion among the kids that night at exactly who was driving at the moment they hit the bridge.

Alex did talk to Connor at the hospital, and what Connor said in the Netflix show was this: "After I got pulled out of my room to get a CAT scan on my jaw, Alex whispered in my ear, "just be quiet, I got you, just don't say anything" pretty much implying that I was driving," So that is Connor making his own inference that Alex was accusing him of driving, when all Alex said was not to talk to the police that night.

So based on what was said in the Netflix show - Alex talked to Paul that night and they told police he wasn't going to answer any questions, Alex tried to talk to Morgan (Paul's girlfriend) but never did, and Alex talked to Connor telling him to be quiet and not saying anything to cops. I disagree that those interactions somehow show Alex was trying to do some evil scheming to hang the boat crash on Connor.

Now, I know the parents, especially Connor's parents, were talking on Netflix about how Alex was running a scheme to frame Connor (and Connor has actually filed a lawsuit against Alex alleging this, so I can understand why his parents would also take this position. however, the fact is that based on the information in the show, aside from Paul, Alex only talked to one other kid (Connor) at the hospital, and he told Connor to not say anything. None of the kids (other than Connor's inference above) have alleged that Alex came talked to them and told them to blame Connor.

LMCane said:

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you are just wrong

the young adults ABSOLUTELY claimed that it was Alex that was trying to pin the driving (hence the accident) on Connor and not on his son.

go back and rewatch it.

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Which of the survivors said that Alex told them to blame Connor for driving?

Connor inferred that from Alex's advice to him to not talk to cops. What other survivors did Alex even talk to that night?