Wabs said:

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The jury has to be getting sick of this line of questioning.

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Judge is sick of it and just dismissed the jury for the day. WHEW! What a day.

"Your honor I could have sworn this was a murder case. We've gone two hours and haven't heard the word murder once."

Poot throws shade as they walk out the door.

Judge of course thinks anything is relevant as long as the state says it's relevant.

I understand what Creighton is doing. Any Unbiased person sees it. There is probably one juror who sees it. You have the guy you are charging with murder… and you don't want to talk about the murder, you just want the jury to see he is a good liar. Well if I'm on that jury, before I send a man to jail for the rest of his life, I need to see more evidence then he is a con man abs a liar.

1991sir said:

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I understand what Creighton is doing. Any Unbiased person sees it. There is probably one juror who sees it. You have the guy you are charging with murder… and you don't want to talk about the murder, you just want the jury to see he is a good liar. Well if I'm on that just, before I send a man to jail for the rest of his life, I need to see more evidence then he is a con man abs a liar.

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So he can close with, "He sat down and looked you in the eye, just like he looked all of these other people in the eye and HE LIED! He lied to them and he lied TO YOU!"

That's what the entire last two hours has been about. Just to be able to say that on closing. Uf that were the case, other than the Satterfield boy (who had separate counsel, BTW) state could have called some of the other clients who did meet with him during disbursement during their case in chief. Now they will have to call them on rebuttal.

Not sure about the rest of you but after today I am convinced that Alex Murdaugh is even a bigger POS then I initially suspected him of being (and I initially suspected him of being a pretty big piece of ****).

Did he shoot his wife and son? I have no effing idea. Timeline seems very tight to me and the investigation was sloppy as hell.

aggiehawg said:

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We are getting into asked and answered territory. Defense will start objecting.

ETA: If they want to, or they can let Waters keep badgering the witness.

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I've got to think either (1) his defense counsel was asleep this afternoon, (2) they were punishing him for wanting to testify against their advice, or (3) they thought the state was making a mistake and were not about to interrupt them.

I'm heavily leaning to #3. If it was just Poot solo, #1 and taking an afternoon nap wouldn't have been out of the question, but harder to land on that with multiple attorneys involved.

unmade bed said:

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Not sure about the rest of you but after today I am convinced that Alex Murdaugh is even a bigger POS then I initially suspected him of being (and I initially suspected him of being a pretty big piece of ****).

Did he shoot his wife and son? I have no effing idea. Timeline seems very tight to me and the investigation was sloppy as hell.

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I am not sure that even the prosecution really believe he was the actual shooter but they needed something else to prsent a murder for hire scenario and they have never had that piece of the puzzle. Ironically, had they properly preserved the tire mark and footprint evidence, they might have that evidence to later allege such a conspiracy with a third party.

Yeah this is a tough one.

I want to believe he didn't shoot his wife and son and I actually do believe his testimony when he's up there talking about it. However, then you start to realize just how comfortable he is up there on the stand, how smart a guys he is, and how much of a master manipulator he can be. He knows exactly what he's doing and what he's saying up there.

I fear it will be a hung jury.

Sher Thing said:

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Yeah this is a tough one.

I want to believe he didn't shoot his wife and son and I actually do believe his testimony when he's up there talking about it. However, then you start to realize just how comfortable he is up there on the stand, how smart a guys he is, and how much of a master manipulator he can be. He knows exactly what he's doing and what he's saying up there.

I fear it will be a hung jury.

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If there was an ounce of a financial benefit that accrued to Alex by the death of either one of them, I would have a different opinion.

But without that clear benefit it makes it much harder to believe he personally did it given the holes and weakness of the state's case connecting him to the actual murders.

Have enjoyed Law and Lumber's daily recaps. Give him a listen if you want. He was the Virginia lawyer who sat in the gallery for most of the Depp v. Heard trial. Which is how I found him. He also has trials of the century series of streams which I have found interesting.



FTR: He usually starts at 6:30PM but that is Virginia time. But there is a lot to unpack today so he may have moved it back. I'll update when he goes live.

Also Steve Gosney, Florida public defender will have a rumble up at 8:00 PM Eastern, 7 Central. Will post that link later (assuming I can find it.)

ETA: He just posted his rumble on Joe's stream it is Crimelaw with Steven N. Gosney on rumble

ETA 2: Oh crap! Peter a Lawyer You Know started very early, usually at 8PM Eastern Rewind if you want his take. (He's also nice eye candy for my gal friends.)

The prosecution will be just fine. They have the entire day tomorrow. They have as much time as they want. This is just the end of the beginning.

mmh said:

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The prosecution will be just fine. They have the entire day tomorrow. They have as much time as they want. This is just the end of the beginning.

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That is correct. In civil trials, the judge can set time limits for everything openin closing statements, evidentiary time for each party, etc.

In criminal trials that is not true for the evidentiary portion of the trial. Prosecution can go as long as they want and ditto for the defense. Due process concern to keep the judge from putting their finger on the scales with unfair time limits. Doesn't mean the judge cannot express their irritation because their entire docket has now been decimated for an extra four weeks but not in front of the jury. A party can object and the judge can say, "Move along counselor," in front of the jury, though.

Remember that the lead investigator told the grand jury two huge lies.

He told the grand jury that Alex had blood spatter of high velocity on his white Tshirt. And that "expert" (in Oklahoma and his garage, no less) was sent the shirt after the hemotrace test had been done, coming back negative for human blood on all 74 samples from that shirt from the SLED lab DNA analyst. 0-74 samples taken tested positive for human blood.

The second thing that same lead investigator lied about to the grand jury was about finding other shotguns at Moselle that were loaded with one buckshot and one birdshot load. That was a lie but on cross, Owens, that lead invesigator, tried to deflect by saying he was referring to different "brands" of the same loads.

But the transcripts of his actual testimony which are available to defense, he did say very specifically that the loads were different, one buckshot and one birdshot. Second lie.

So let me ask people this. Grand jury hears there is forensic proof that he had high velocity (close presence to the shots) blood spatter on his shirt. That having two types of loads in a shotgun was normal for the lackadaisical way they treated their guns.

Who wouldn't issue a true bill under those circumstances being told that? I would.

If I'm on the jury, I can see that AM is a crappy person, a slime ball lawyer thief. That is not what he is on trial for. Need to see the evidence that he shot his wife and son in cold blood. Prosecutor has alot of work to do.

Update:

Gosney has posted his rumble link, upcoming to start.

LINK

Yes, giant POS. I'm pretty sure he himself didn't kill them. Trajectory, timeline, blood spatter, just not there. My big problem is him saying he would never do ANYTHING to hurt Paul and Maggie yet his opioid addiction was plainly hurting them because it was impacting them financially.

Yeah, the usual rationalization from an addict, but it showed with how wild Paul was and the potential to bring in bad actors that would kill family members to prove a point.

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My big problem is him saying he would never do ANYTHING to hurt Paul and Maggie yet his opioid addiction was plainly hurting them because it was impacting them financially.

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That's myopic, sorry but it is. All criminals who commit crimes know there is some aspect of their families getting adversely affected if the one committing the crime gets caught.

Doesn't mean they murder them.

Dang Law and Lumber never puts his audio to live unless you are subscriber.

He's up. Early portion.

aggiehawg said:

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My big problem is him saying he would never do ANYTHING to hurt Paul and Maggie yet his opioid addiction was plainly hurting them because it was impacting them financially.

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That's myopic, sorry but it is. All criminals who commit crimes know there is some aspect of their families getting adversely affected if the one committing the crime gets caught.

Doesn't mean they murder them.

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I'm not trying to say he murdered them, I believe he didn't. I think it was a drug hit or retribution. My point is that if he is acknowledging he stole all that money, he also has to say he did hurt them emotionally.

He admitted to hurting them....he said he just wouldn't do it intentionally

Gosney is up.

Aggie95 said:

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He admitted to hurting them....he said he just wouldn't do it intentionally

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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Aggie95 said:

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He admitted to hurting them....he said he just wouldn't do it intentionally

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That is not due process.

Which part of "premeditated" do you fail to comprehend?

Murdaugh is at the murder scene.

Seconds before the murders.

Then he lied and said he wasn't.

But...then it was proven he was.

So...then he admitted he lied and he was there.

You can't make this up.

Don't fall for this con. Dude blasted his family.

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Seconds before the murders.

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Prove that. I will wait. Been waiting for over a month for that proof.

mmh said:

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Murdaugh is at the murder scene.

Seconds before the murders.

Then he lied and said he wasn't.

But...then it was proven he was.

So...then he admitted he lied and he was there.

You can't make this up.

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Sure if you accept the State's theory that the murders happened right when cell phone activity stopped. I'm not sure that is a given. Plenty of other plausible reasons that cell phone activity could stop other than both being murdered.

But let's go with states theory that they were killed when cell phone activity stopped. To believe that Alex was the shooter you would have to believe that Alex was down there farting around with his family and dogs - getting a dead bird out of the mouth of one of the dogs, and then not even 5 minutes later he is crouching in wait with a shotgun to blow his sons head off and then switches to an AR to take out his wife.

If Alex really did the shooting, I don't see how logistically he goes from chasing after a dog to armed with a shotgun and AR and crouching outside the feed room waiting to shoot Paul in a matter of 2-3 minutes - let alone all the problems with the post murder cleanup timeline.

unmade bed said:

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mmh said:

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Murdaugh is at the murder scene.

Seconds before the murders.

Then he lied and said he wasn't.

But...then it was proven he was.

So...then he admitted he lied and he was there.

You can't make this up.

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Sure if you accept the State's theory that the murders happened right when cell phone activity stopped. I'm not sure that is a given. Plenty of other plausible reasons that cell phone activity could stop other than both being murdered.

But let's go with states theory that they were killed when cell phone activity stopped. To believe that Alex was the shooter you would have to believe that Alex was down there farting around with his family and dogs - getting a dead bird out of the mouth of one of the dogs, and then not even 5 minutes later he is crouching in wait with a shotgun to blow his sons head off and then switches to an AR to take out his wife.

If Alex really did the shooting, I don't see how logistically he goes from chasing after a dog to armed with a shotgun and AR and crouching outside the feed room waiting to shoot Paul in a matter of 2-3 minutes - let alone all the problems with the post murder cleanup timeline.

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Yes. that time line does not match. IF SLED had put Maggie's phone in a Faraday. her GPS on that night would have been preserved. They refused, REFUSED to do so. They deliberately allowed that evidence to be erased.

So how does the state and defense argue on that point? State says SLED was so afraid on the Murdaugh family they allowed that???? Or SLED was so convinced he wa guilty they didn't bother with actual evidence?

I tell you one thing, Maddie and Paul did not deserve to be killed in cold blood like they were. The cops should be the ones on trial as well for doing such a ****ty job.

Just finished listening to today's cross (had to get some actual work done this afternoon). I think Alex did a good job of wasting the AGs time quibbling with him over mundane **** like what the definition of "successful" is, whether he was a deputy or assistant solicitor, nicknames Alex uses for people, etc. AG was trying to score quick little wins but Alex was not having it. The little sparring matches between two trial lawyers asking and answering questions in true dbag trial lawyer style was fascinating to me (though probably rubbed others the wrong way).

I think Alex won round 1, but tomorrow is going to be a tough day for him. AG needs to be on his game and not get suckered into minor pissing matches.

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I think Alex won round 1, but tomorrow is going to be a tough day for him. AG needs to be on his game and not get suckered into minor pissing matches.

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Problem is for Creighton is that is all he has. If he had actual evidence about the murders, he would not have wasted hours on the financial stuff that Alex had already admitted to doing.

Even the AG does not think Alex committed these murders. They know he didn't because the timeline does not match up. They have to manipulate and lie to even get a grand jury indictment.

Has anyone watched the Murdaugh miniseries on Netflix? I watched it last night, its only three episodes. I'll admit, I haven't followed any of this trial one bit. But I did read this thread yesterday to see what the fuss was about and got the impression that Alex could be innocent and just a horrible person. The series has first hand accounts from people in Hampton (friends of Paul that were on the boat when Mallory Beach died, their parents, townspeople, etc.). If all of their accounts of Alex, Paul and Buster are true, I have no doubt Alex murdered his wife, son, housekeeper, and Buster's gay lover. Dude is a loon, not one person had anything good to say about Alex or anyone in the family.

atmtws said:

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I have no doubt Alex murdered his wife, son, housekeeper, and Buster's gay lover. Dude is a loon, not one person had anything good to say about Alex or anyone in the family.

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I've only listened to portions of the trial and had heard a little about the case over a year ago.

Obviously it was never confirmed (that I recall, I was dozing off at that point last night) but the kid was gay and apparently he and Buster were secretly friends. The kid ran out of gas one night, called Buster, who happened to be nearby with Paul and another friend. They picked him up to get fuel and later the next morning the kids body was found in the middle of the road. Draw your own conclusions. The kids parents hired a PI who was able to get the case opened again after the rumors of the Murdaughs being present that night surfaced years later.

atmtws said:

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Obviously it was never confirmed (that I recall, I was dozing off at that point last night) but the kid was gay and apparently he and Buster were secretly friends. The kid ran out of gas one night, called Buster, who happened to be nearby with Paul and another friend. They picked him up to get fuel and later the next morning the kids body was found in the middle of the road. Draw your own conclusions. The kids parents hired a PI who was able to get the case opened again after the rumors of the Murdaughs being present that night surfaced years later.

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So add another potential suspect for the murders who was never investigated by SLED.