Lots of pipes to choose from, several critical points to cripple the US flow of energy

Bag said:

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Lots of pipes to choose from, several critical points to cripple the US flow of energy

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No need to go through all that mess to cripple US energy. They already have control of the biggest choke point:

Madman said:

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My point is I am not going to be surprised if in 50 years we find out that a government agency did something without the president's knowledge.

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You don't have to wait 50 years, I can affirm right now that it routinely and openly happened.

From January 2017 to January 2021

Norwegians react. Norwegians deny and say allegations absurd.

https://borsen.dagbladet.no/nyheter/det-er-absurd/78457166 use google translate

The culprit is very obviously the US and anything else is just cope.

It's insane, but from a realpolitik view it makes perfect sense. In one fell swoop it reinforces the 2 main objectives of NATO's existence- F with Russia and keep Germany under the boot. Not often talked about that the secondary purpose of NATO is to prevent any one continental power from gaining hegemony of Europe. This means pacifying the French and subjugating the Germans.

Germany had gotten too cozy with Russia and had to be brought to heel.

Only a handful of nations had the technical ability to do it covertly enough to not flat out get caught in the act or with irrefutable evidence.

The USA is probably the top suspect, based on ability and circumstantial evidence, opportunity, and motive, but a few other actors are plausible. It's even dimly possible a non nation state actor could have pulled it off but highly unlikely without detection.

The difference may be angry senile Joe and his need to talk trash and make threats almost let the cat out of the bag. "We will shut it down".

Bag said:

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Russia as the titty

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Tell me more about these Russian titties.

Tittie pictures for you

CanyonAg77 said:

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Madman said:

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My point is I am not going to be surprised if in 50 years we find out that a government agency did something without the president's knowledge.

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You don't have to wait 50 years, I can affirm right now that it routinely and openly happened.

From January 2017 to January 2021

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Ah, yes. The hallmark of one of the greatest Presidents of all time, having agencies he is responsible for and has complete control over routinely conducting operations without his knowledge and approval.

Blowing up any one of those lines (or even 2-3) would not 'cripple' the US. A majority of O&G production is onshore.

well, it's a good thing our southern border is secured tightly so we don't have to worry about any terroristic retaliatory attacks on any of our onshore infrastructure, power plants, refineries, pipelines, water supplies, etc.

wessimo said:

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Blowing up any one of those lines (or even 2-3) would not 'cripple' the US. A majority of O&G production is onshore.

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been in oil and gas for 25 years, upstream downstream offshore onshore, I know this industry, if you take the gulf of mexico offline, it will cripple the us

Bag said:

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ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know in advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

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Why do you guys believe an administration who is at war with the US O&G industry would do something like this to support the US O&G industry? The Feds still haven't let Freeport get back online and very publicly made a big deal and threatened to cut off Cheniere over the formaldehyde/compressor issue.

You have to realize that Russia was weaponizing energy supplies for this winter to undermine Western support for Ukraine in the rest of Europe. If Russia actually cared about their economy they wouldn't have invaded Ukraine. If you paid any attention blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline was the peak of TTF prices in Europe (Russia has more links to Europe than Nord Stream, and interestingly Nord Stream II wasn't blown up) and prices have crashed back down to normal levels since.

Here's what most likely happened. Russia was getting desperate because they saw the winter weather forecasts and the gasification facilities ramping up capacity in Europe - so they dramatically blew up Nord Stream as a last ditch effort to use their natural gas leverage over Europe this winter. And it failed.

I am not sure why so many of you proudly parade around a completely unproven and illogical claim like this about Nord Stream - it certainly helps the Russia propoganda machine. Our key selling point is that we are a reliable and considerate partner which is a big reason why Western Europe is incentivized to partner with us. Going rouge and blowing up a shut in pipeline because our administration wanted to support the American fossil fuel industry at the expense of energy security not only is irrational; it undermines American interests in the region. Alternatively, Russia is trying to change the world order so blowing up a pipeline in dramatic fashion is a small price to pay right before winter when energy supplies are tight and everyone is nervous. Russia has engaged in this sort of belligerent, chaotic, and dramatic behavoir repeatedly in the past to achieve their aims. Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that Russia isn't interested in business as usual, so it makes perfect sense to attempt to undermine the fabric of western society at a critical point in the war effort - right before Russia's leverage is gone?

Also, it's funny that Russia blames the UK publicly for Nord Stream. Most of the world blames Russia, Russia blames the brits, and the American internet Sherlock Holmes blame America (an increasingly common theme).

How many pipes would have to be blown up to take the GOM offline?

Gordo14 said:

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Bag said:

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ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know in advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

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Why do you guys believe an administration who is at war with the US O&G industry would do something like this to support the US O&G industry? The Feds still haven't let Freeport get back online and very publicly made a big deal and threatened to cut off Cheniere over the formaldehyde/compressor issue.

You have to realize that Russia was weaponizing energy supplies for this winter to undermine Western support for Ukraine in the rest of Europe. If Russia actually cared about their economy they wouldn't have invaded Ukraine. If you paid any attention blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline was the peak of TTF prices in Europe (Russia has more links to Europe than Nord Stream, and interestingly Nord Stream II wasn't blown up) and prices have crashed back down to normal levels since.

Here's what most likely happened. Russia was getting desperate because they saw the winter weather forecasts and the gasification facilities ramping up capacity in Europe - so they dramatically blew up Nord Stream as a last ditch effort to use their natural gas leverage over Europe this winter. And it failed.

I am not sure why so many of you proudly parade around a completely unproven and illogical claim like this about Nord Stream - it certainly helps the Russia propoganda machine. Our key selling point is that we are a reliable and considerate partner which is a big reason why Western Europe is incentivized to partner with us. Going rouge and blowing up a shut in pipeline because our administration wanted to support the American fossil fuel industry at the expense of energy security not only is irrational; it undermines American interests in the region. Alternatively, Russia is trying to change the world order so blowing up a pipeline in dramatic fashion is a small price to pay right before winter when energy supplies are tight and everyone is nervous. Russia has engaged in this sort of belligerent, chaotic, and dramatic behavoir repeatedly in the past to achieve their aims. Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that Russia isn't interested in business as usual, so it makes perfect sense to attempt to undermine the fabric of western society at a critical point in the war effort - right before Russia's leverage is gone?

Also, it's funny that Russia blames the UK publicly for Nord Stream. Most of the world blames Russia, Russia blames the brits, and the American internet Sherlock Holmes blame America (an increasingly common theme).

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This is utter nonsense. If you can't see why the US is the most logical culprit here, I don't know what to tell you.

Quote:

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...
I am not sure why so many of you proudly parade around a completely unproven and illogical claim...

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You must be new here.

Gordo14 said:

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Why do you guys believe an administration who is at war with the US O&G industry would do something like this to support the US O&G industry? The Feds still haven't let Freeport get back online and very publicly made a big deal and threatened to cut off Cheniere over the formaldehyde/compressor issue.

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You seem to be under the mistaken belief that this administration has anything close to a coherent and consistent policy on anything. Biden is literally the doddering old man who just agrees with whatever is last put in front of him. Sometimes it will be the spooks in the alphabet agencies, sometimes the neutered Military Androgynous Joes, sometimes the enviro wackos.

Anyone seeking an over arching policy at play will be disappointed.

wessimo said:

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How many pipes would have to be blown up to take the GOM offline?

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its a spaghetti bowl of pipes in the gom for sure, but there are only a handful of locations that would need to be hit, I would say at most 5, WD143 is one that comes to mind immediately it was hit during Ike and caused some issues

https://gcaptain.com/shell-storm-damage-to-west-delta-143-facilities-to-impact-gom-oil-output-through-year-end/

you guys are soo dumb and illogical. obviously the Russians saw weather forecasts and bombed their own long term lucrative infrastructure project with Germany. duh!

it's so funny. the whole world knows Russia sabotaged themselves except for you conspiraloons who think it was Russia's enemy who sabotaged Russia's assets.

What consequence if LOOP goes offline?

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completely unproven and illogical claim

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What is illogical when the administration and the president himself said it would happen?

[sorry, response was supposed to be to Gordo's post]

The Hallmarks of a treasonous bureaucracy.

Cocaine is a helluva drug

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What is illogical when the administration and the president himself said it would happen?

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Elephant in the room.

Don’t let UFOs and Chinese spy balloons distract you from the fact a US President ordered Russian pipelines be blown up without notifying Congress then misled the American people about it, risking WWIII to defend a corrupt nation where his son Hunter raked in millions of dollars

— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) February 12, 2023

oh no said:

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you guys are soo dumb and illogical. obviously the Russians saw weather forecasts and bombed their own long term lucrative infrastructure project with Germany. duh!

it's so funny. the whole world knows Russia sabotaged themselves except for you conspiraloons who think it was Russia's enemy who sabotaged Russia's assets.

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I mean, it's just coincidence we had a crew of underwater demolition experts recently trained to do this, right over this spot on the globe where this critical pipeline runs through relatively shallow water, right when it ruptured. It's not like Biden's team itself said it would happen.

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Still, the interagency group was initially skeptical of the CIA's enthusiasm for a covert deep-sea attack. There were too many unanswered questions. The waters of the Baltic Sea were heavily patrolled by the Russian navy, and there were no oil rigs that could be used as cover for a diving operation. Would the divers have to go to Estonia, right across the border from Russia's natural gas loading docks, to train for the mission? "It would be a goat ****," the Agency was told.

Throughout "all of this scheming," the source said, "some working guys in the CIA and the State Department were saying, 'Don't do this. It's stupid and will be a political nightmare if it comes out.'"
Nevertheless, in early 2022, the CIA working group reported back to Sullivan's interagency group: "We have a way to blow up the pipelines."

What came next was stunning. On February 7, less than three weeks before the seemingly inevitable Russian invasion of Ukraine, Biden met in his White House office with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who, after some wobbling, was now firmly on the American team. At the press briefing that followed, Biden defiantly said, "If Russia invades . . . there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

Twenty days earlier, Undersecretary Nuland had delivered essentially the same message at a State Department briefing, with little press coverage. "I want to be very clear to you today," she said in response to a question. "If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward."

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Quote:

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Several of those involved in planning the pipeline mission were dismayed by what they viewed as indirect references to the attack.

"It was like putting an atomic bomb on the ground in Tokyo and telling the Japanese that we are going to detonate it," the source said. "The plan was for the options to be executed post invasion and not advertised publicly. Biden simply didn't get it or ignored it."

Biden's and Nuland's indiscretion, if that is what it was, might have frustrated some of the planners. But it also created an opportunity. According to the source, some of the senior officials of the CIA determined that blowing up the pipeline "no longer could be considered a covert option because the President just announced that we knew how to do it."

The plan to blow up Nord Stream 1 and 2 was suddenly downgraded from a covert operation requiring that Congress be informed to one that was deemed as a highly classified intelligence operation with U.S. military support. Under the law, the source explained, "There was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress. All they had to do now is just do itbut it still had to be secret. The Russians have superlative surveillance of the Baltic Sea."

The Agency working group members had no direct contact with the White House, and were eager to find out if the President meant what he'd saidthat is, if the mission was now a go. The source recalled, "Bill Burns comes back and says, 'Do it.'"

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That doesn't sound like Biden at all. He would never just go out and run his mouth.

Biden: We will end Nordstream 2.

Nordstream 2: 💥

Daily Mail: Biden blew up Nordstream.

Media: Putin blew up Nordstream.#NordstreamSabotage pic.twitter.com/KrLSDzWVQx

— Ϯஐ รครรคfгครร Ϯஐ (@iSassafras) February 9, 2023

And now Seymour Hersh is…'discredited, per the CIA?'

The same Seymour Hersh that is demonized now scooped these stories. There is a damn good reason why the same team that massacred the Mỹ Lai people and tortured others at Abu Ghraib wants to discredit #SeymourHersh. #NordstreamSabotage https://t.co/zcwTEaQ2a6

— Scaleindependent (@scaleindependen) February 12, 2023

These things happen, just as it's a coincidence we started shooting a bunch of balloons out of the sky this weekend.

BREAKING: A @DeptofDefense Source Speaking On The Condition Of Anonymity Told Me Details Of How @JoeBiden Ordered The #NordStream Pipelines Destroyed In June But Then Got Nervous & Changed Orders To The PLACE BOMBS But Make Them Capable Of Later Detonation.
He DID NOT Inform… https://t.co/DdQTb3QndH pic.twitter.com/1LRaKjGkg6

— John Basham 🇺🇲 (@JohnBasham) February 16, 2023

nortex97 said:

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BREAKING: A @DeptofDefense Source Speaking On The Condition Of Anonymity Told Me Details Of How @JoeBiden Ordered The #NordStream Pipelines Destroyed In June But Then Got Nervous & Changed Orders To The PLACE BOMBS But Make Them Capable Of Later Detonation.
He DID NOT Inform… https://t.co/DdQTb3QndH pic.twitter.com/1LRaKjGkg6

— John Basham 🇺🇲 (@JohnBasham) February 16, 2023

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I don't believe this scenario at all. President Biden is completely incompetent of this complex level of thought.
If the US blew it up this is not the way this tweet describes.

Substitute Biden's earpiece for Biden the person.

Bag said:

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cbr said:

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I expect 'we' did it, but i am not sure i see what is so tough about it.

The devil is probably in the details, but blowing up a pipeline at 260' of water doesnt seem too hard for any competent group.

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In theory it was simple, but in practice it is much more difficult.

There was no AIS or RADAR footprint to be found in the area of the explosion at the time of the explosion. No laser guided bomb is going to work once it hits the water, same goes for GPS enabled bomb.

That leaves only one option of a submarine, which means the list shrinks to less 5 countries realistically.

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You've no clue what you are talmbout

Biden is a coward, he has been a no vote on every aggressive action taken for 50 years. Doubt he authorized it.

Schneider Electric said:

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Bag said:

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cbr said:

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I expect 'we' did it, but i am not sure i see what is so tough about it.

The devil is probably in the details, but blowing up a pipeline at 260' of water doesnt seem too hard for any competent group.

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In theory it was simple, but in practice it is much more difficult.

There was no AIS or RADAR footprint to be found in the area of the explosion at the time of the explosion. No laser guided bomb is going to work once it hits the water, same goes for GPS enabled bomb.

That leaves only one option of a submarine, which means the list shrinks to less 5 countries realistically.

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You've no clue what you are talmbout

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nice drive by, please enlighten me.

If you are talking about the fact that a submarine wasnt used, then i agree, I missed that part, but the method that was used is even more advanced, and the point is still valid.

at the end of the day this was an act of war, full stop and it was not authorized by congress or even the gang of 8.

nortex97 said:

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Substitute Biden's earpiece for Biden the person.

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More likely scenario, President Biden is a corrupt, mentally challenged dangerous fool.

even the stupid lying corrupt Joe Biden isn't there anymore. He's too far gone. Who's running the ship, especially if Ron Klain is gone? Rice? Obama? Lloyd Austin and Gen Milley get carte blanche discretion on some of these actions?

The "doctor" babysitter adulteress in chief, who just so happens to love the spotlight on her drapery attire and hates Veepthroat.