ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know in advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

Bag said:

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ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that now all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know is advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

---

Uh, what?

ETA: Regas terminals are extremely simple and easy to build. It's the liquefaction terminals that are complex and take time to construct.

I'm thinking it was more like a seizure...

goatchze said:

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Bag said:

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ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that now all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know is advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

---

Uh, what?

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In less than a year all of northern europe is entirely dependent US Gas, full stop.

goatchze said:

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Bag said:

---

ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that now all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know is advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

---

Uh, what?

ETA: Regas terminals are extremely simple and easy to build. It's the liquefaction terminals that are complex and take time to construct.

---

if you have ever done any business in Europe, you know nothing is simple and nothing is easy

Yall are burying the lead


The yanks blew up the Nord, that is seriously F'd to think about

Quote:

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Regarding the Sabotage of the Nord

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I seriously read this thread title as "Regarding the Sabotage of the N Word". I was very curious and ultimately disappointed when I discovered my mistake.

Bag said:

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goatchze said:

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Bag said:

---

ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that now all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know is advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

---

Uh, what?

---

In less than a year all of northern europe is entirely dependent US Gas, full stop.

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That's weird, because their import data don't say that:

https://www.bruegel.org/dataset/european-natural-gas-imports

And I have done business in Europe for almost two decades now. In the process industries.

goatchze said:

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Bag said:

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goatchze said:

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Bag said:

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ok, I have had an epiphany, and maybe I am just slow on the uptake, but I just had lunch with a Dutch colleague of mine. I would say that the odds are 95% that the US blew up the Nord. It is pretty easy math really, everyone agrees that it was a nation state that pulled it off, no bunch of renegades could have done this.

Now, of all the nation states, who would be capable of pulling something like this off? This narrows the list to about 5 nations, at most. So who did it?

Who had the most to lose? Well clearly Russia did

Who had the most to gain? Well the US has now, less than a year out, replaced Russia as the titty that now all of Europe relies on. We basically have turned northern Europe into our own vassal state.

The only question left to ask is this, did any of the European countries know is advance that this would happen? I would argue undoubtedly yes. How else do you explain that the Dutch just built not one BUT TWO LNG terminals in less than a year.

Crazy times indeed.

---

Uh, what?

---

In less than a year all of northern europe is entirely dependent US Gas, full stop.

---

That's weird, because their import data don't say that:

https://www.bruegel.org/dataset/european-natural-gas-imports

And I have done business in Europe for almost two decades now. In the process industries.

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Again, not here to argue about your sources vs mine about imports, I just want to know if u believe the US blew the Nord?

Pecos Ag said:

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I'm thinking it was more like a seizure...

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maybe, necessity is the mother of invention afterall

We drink to our youth to the days come and gone
For the age of oppression is now nearly done

Why would Biden or the Dems do anything which would benefit the US oil and gas industry? OTOH, Russia invested billions to upgrade their port facilities for shipping petroleum products, so it appears equally feasible they sabotaged the pipeline to drive up prices so they could keep a maritime supply chain open. It may also explain their obsession with getting Ukrainian Black Sea ports to expand their ability to ship products from European Russia. So it is difficult to tease out the particulars here relying on logic alone. Putin is just irrational enough to have done it.

Most likely suspects are the Brits or us and since Biden and State Department personnel said it would happen, that pretty much narrows it down to the culprit.

Well...which country/political entity conducts the most subterfuge and afterwards, lies the most?

US/NIH?

That's a bridge too far man.

UTExan said:

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Why would Biden or the Dems do anything which would benefit the US oil and gas industry? OTOH, Russia invested billions to upgrade their port facilities for shipping petroleum products, so it appears equally feasible they sabotaged the pipeline to drive up prices so they could keep a maritime supply chain open. It may also explain their obsession with getting Ukrainian Black Sea ports to expand their ability to ship products from European Russia. So it is difficult to tease out the particulars here relying on logic alone. Putin is just irrational enough to have done it.

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Was JFK fully aware of what the CIA wanted to do at the Bay of Pigs?

I recently read a book about the development of the A12/SR-71. Its not like the CIA technically had permission to develop and use it in the early days of the program. Curtis LeMay ended up with control of the A12 which became the SR71 despite not liking the idea.

My point is I am not going to be surprised if in 50 years we find out that a government agency did something without the president's knowledge.

if we didn't do it we still basically did it. no one else is making this move without our approval and most likely assistance .

We did it but not to benefit our O&G industry. Germany was wavering. They weren't hard core supporters of Ukraine. There were demonstrations just days before in favor of turning the Russian taps back on. This shut that option down.

Harmed parties:
Massive negative financially impacts for Russia.
Price hike and economic damage for most Europeans.

Benefiting parties:
Scandinavian gas providers
USA
Russia's enemies
Europe's enemies

Elephant in the room:
Most of the world is just accepting or taking it.
Russia hasn't gone off on the culprit
Germany hasn't gone off on the culprit
USA hasn't ID'd the culprit
EU hasn't lashed out against the perpetrator

It all makes sense if it's our government (backed by the beefiest economic and military muscle on the planet) with all the players just accepting it.

Bag said:

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Yall are burying the lead


The yanks blew up the Nord, that is seriously F'd to think about

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Lede hth.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Harmed parties:
Massive negative financially impacts for Russia.
Price hike and economic damage for most Europeans.

Benefiting parties:
Scandinavian gas providers
USA
Russia's enemies
Europe's enemies

Elephant in the room:
Most of the world is just accepting or taking it.
Russia hasn't gone off on the culprit
Germany hasn't gone off on the culprit
USA hasn't ID'd the culprit
EU hasn't lashed out against the perpetrator

It all makes sense if it's our government (backed by the beefiest economic and military muscle on the planet) with all the players just accepting it.

---

agree, I would be interested in knowing what other players in Europe or in the UK were told

Does skyrim belongs to the nords?

/nerdery

Since day 1 I've said it was the US behind the pipeline sabotage. As long as Putin could threaten to shut off the gas, he had a bargaining chip over Europe, most specifically Germany.

By taking out the pipelines the US took away the bargaining chip. Putin can't threaten to shutdown what he doesn't have.

Any benefit to the US energy industry was an unintended accident.

I expect 'we' did it, but i am not sure i see what is so tough about it.

The devil is probably in the details, but blowing up a pipeline at 260' of water doesnt seem too hard for any competent group.

cbr said:

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I expect 'we' did it, but i am not sure i see what is so tough about it.

The devil is probably in the details, but blowing up a pipeline at 260' of water doesnt seem too hard for any competent group.

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In theory it was simple, but in practice it is much more difficult.

There was no AIS or RADAR footprint to be found in the area of the explosion at the time of the explosion. No laser guided bomb is going to work once it hits the water, same goes for GPS enabled bomb.

That leaves only one option of a submarine, which means the list shrinks to less 5 countries realistically.

FOX BUSINESS reporting the USN blew up the pipeline. Holy S**t Batman.

That's f'ed. someone needs to go down hard for this.

Bag said:

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cbr said:

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I expect 'we' did it, but i am not sure i see what is so tough about it.

The devil is probably in the details, but blowing up a pipeline at 260' of water doesnt seem too hard for any competent group.

---

In theory it was simple, but in practice it is much more difficult.

There was no AIS or RADAR footprint to be found in the area of the explosion at the time of the explosion. No laser guided bomb is going to work once it hits the water, same goes for GPS enabled bomb.

That leaves only one option of a submarine, which means the list shrinks to less 5 countries realistically.

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I figured there were details, but i still assumed professional divers could have been inserted by small boats and done the job with conventional explosives…no?

Do you have a link? Or was this just on TV?

cbr said:

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Bag said:

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cbr said:

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I expect 'we' did it, but i am not sure i see what is so tough about it.

The devil is probably in the details, but blowing up a pipeline at 260' of water doesnt seem too hard for any competent group.

---

In theory it was simple, but in practice it is much more difficult.

There was no AIS or RADAR footprint to be found in the area of the explosion at the time of the explosion. No laser guided bomb is going to work once it hits the water, same goes for GPS enabled bomb.

That leaves only one option of a submarine, which means the list shrinks to less 5 countries realistically.

---

I figured there were details, but i still assumed professional divers could have been inserted by small boats and done the job with conventional explosives…no?

---

Which, of course, would be exactly how US Special Ops would have done it. To suggest that the USN used its superior naval force to do it, then not immediately take credit, does suggest some people need to apply critical thinking skills.

internally, do we have a mess on our hands if Biden and CIA subverted seeking congressional approval to go commit and act of war?

macro, do we have a bigger mess on our hands if this state terrorist act not only turns some allies against us, but also galvanizes other actors like China and Iran to join Russia in their plight?

further, sabotaging a Russian infrastructure project like that probably opens our vulnerable infrastructure to retaliatory attacks

Biden's WWIII, nuclear Armageddon incoming?

Germany and Russia both needed that gas pipeline infrastructure... this hurts German people from buying cheap natural gas. What are they saying about this now that something that was fairly obvious from the start is finally starting to be confirmed?


Lastly, how does Blinken, Biden, and friends try to spin this?

oh no said:

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internally, do we have a mess on our hands if Biden and CIA subverted seeking congressional approval to go commit and act of war?

macro, do we have a bigger mess on our hands if this state terrorist act not only turns some allies against us, but also galvanizes other actors like China and Iran to join Russia in their plight?

further, sabotaging a Russian infrastructure project like that probably opens our vulnerable infrastructure to retaliatory attacks

Biden's WWIII, nuclear Armageddon incoming?

Germany and Russia both needed that gas pipeline infrastructure... this hurts German people from buying cheap natural gas. What are they saying about this now that something that was fairly obvious from the start is finally starting to be confirmed?


Lastly, how does Blinken, Biden, and friends try to spin this?

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This is my line of thinking as well, only a matter of time before a russian sub enters the gulf of mexico and runs roughshod?

scary times

Bag said:

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oh no said:

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internally, do we have a mess on our hands if Biden and CIA subverted seeking congressional approval to go commit and act of war?

macro, do we have a bigger mess on our hands if this state terrorist act not only turns some allies against us, but also galvanizes other actors like China and Iran to join Russia in their plight?

further, sabotaging a Russian infrastructure project like that probably opens our vulnerable infrastructure to retaliatory attacks

Biden's WWIII, nuclear Armageddon incoming?

Germany and Russia both needed that gas pipeline infrastructure... this hurts German people from buying cheap natural gas. What are they saying about this now that something that was fairly obvious from the start is finally starting to be confirmed?


Lastly, how does Blinken, Biden, and friends try to spin this?

---

This is my line of thinking as well, only a matter of time before a russian sub enters the gulf of mexico and runs roughshod?

scary times

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Much more likely they would hit a pipeline or telecommunications line. Hitting telecommunications lines in the deep ocean would be a *****.