My company. I am an admin on the monitoring software. We've run it for the past 2 years on all WFH employees.

Many of you are discussing and arguing over completely differing work situations and trying to align on a single answer. It's going to vary considerably by industry, company size, seniority, and role. What works for a web development team at a small start up won't work for a product design team at a large toy company.

My experience in my company (tech department in large corporate company) is the majority of those throwing a tantrum about returning to work are the worst performers on our team OR are perfectly content with their role and performance and not looking to do anything but their job (no interest in advancement). Obviously there are many exceptions to this, but this is the general theme. We offer a very flexible hybrid environment which has its pros and cons but generally slowed us down and led us to develop suboptimal solutions. Too much flexibility makes it difficult to know if you can depend on someone. The first few weeks we got back into the office full time, we had several leaps in our development and productivity due to non-verbal communication barriers being unblocked.

I personally believe many of those who want to be fully remote will come to regret that due to the impact it will have on career advancement and their emotional and social health. Our society is becoming more and more detached from each other and remote work only pushes us further down this path. A hybrid model with clear expectations and boundaries is the best solution that works for me and my goals.

The good CEOs are evaluating and testing out different options to enable the most effective solution that delivers results and builds/maintains the culture they want at their company. They're not going to make everyone happy and if they are coming off of a near 100% wfh setup from COVID, will have a significant challenge on their hands due to strong preferences.

Teslag said:

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Our productivity skyrocketed with work from home. We do a hybrid two at office 3 at home. I'll retire before I go back to full time office work.

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It seems you may be the exception that actually is more productive in your home environment. Unfortunately, many, if not the majority, abuse the work from home policies. Our daughter is also more productive in the work from home situation she is in. Responds to emails long after work hours requiring accessing various databases to resolve questions and provide prompt answers.

scoop12 said:

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Many of you are discussing and arguing over completely differing work situations and trying to align on a single answer. It's going to vary considerably by industry, company size, seniority, and role. What works for a web development team at a small start up won't work for a product design team at a large toy company.

My experience in my company (tech department in large corporate company) is the majority of those throwing a tantrum about returning to work are the worst performers on our team OR are perfectly content with their role and performance and not looking to do anything but their job (no interest in advancement). Obviously there are many exceptions to this, but this is the general theme. We offer a very flexible hybrid environment which has its pros and cons but generally slowed us down and led us to develop suboptimal solutions. Too much flexibility makes it difficult to know if you can depend on someone. The first few weeks we got back into the office full time, we had several leaps in our development and productivity due to non-verbal communication barriers being unblocked.

I personally believe many of those who want to be fully remote will come to regret that due to the impact it will have on career advancement and their emotional and social health. Our society is becoming more and more detached from each other and remote work only pushes us further down this path. A hybrid model with clear expectations and boundaries is the best solution that works for me and my goals.

The good CEOs are evaluating and testing out different options to enable the most effective solution that delivers results and builds/maintains the culture they want at their company. They're not going to make everyone happy and if they are coming off of a near 100% wfh setup from COVID, will have a significant challenge on their hands due to strong preferences.

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Great post. The disconnect with bold are the people that are WFH zealots who still expect the same consideration for promotion as their counterparts who are going in. Yeah, all else being equal I'm going with the person who is going into the office.

The WFH person has zero argument against this IMO. If you want to be promoted, then go the extra mile like your counterpart.

one safe place said:

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A real enterprising person will hire on at two or three places and work from home for each of them.

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Can't remember which radio program had a caller that was doing just that. 3 jobs and none of the companies were aware. Will be interesting at tax time as the withholding should be adjusted and an inquiring IRS agent may contact the employer to get answers.

Edit spelling

richardag said:

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one safe place said:

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A real enterprising person will hire on at two or three places and work from home for each of them.

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Can't remember which radio program had a caller that was doing just that. 3 jobs and none of the companies were aware. Will be interesting at tax time as the withholding should be adjusted and an inquiring IRS agent may contact the employer to get answers.

Edit spelling

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What are you talking about. IRS will not give two ****s as long as the individual files and pays their taxes. If their income exceeds limits and due to multiple jobs all taking deductions they'll even get a refund on their withholding for social security. IRS doesn't care how many jobs you work, hell they don't even care if how you make money is illegal - just that you file/pay.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Also been working from home since 1999. No regrets. Have never wished I could waste time driving to and from an office location, have to wear anything besides gym clothes every day, or have to be somewhere where I had to regularly deal with a hard-defined clock in/clock out timesheet score.

But hey, I know that lifestyle isn't for everybody and some people chose careers or made choices where working from home is not an option, so to each their own.

It is all about trust. I work hard and am trusted after years and years of gaining it, so I get lots of freedom. And I work in an industry where I can work anywhere (office is optional). Doesn't mean I am 'woke' or not pulling my weight.

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I don't think this thread was directed at multi decade WFH people. Just the COVID bunch that got super spoiled really quickly.

YouBet said:

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scoop12 said:

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Many of you are discussing and arguing over completely differing work situations and trying to align on a single answer. It's going to vary considerably by industry, company size, seniority, and role. What works for a web development team at a small start up won't work for a product design team at a large toy company.

My experience in my company (tech department in large corporate company) is the majority of those throwing a tantrum about returning to work are the worst performers on our team OR are perfectly content with their role and performance and not looking to do anything but their job (no interest in advancement). Obviously there are many exceptions to this, but this is the general theme. We offer a very flexible hybrid environment which has its pros and cons but generally slowed us down and led us to develop suboptimal solutions. Too much flexibility makes it difficult to know if you can depend on someone. The first few weeks we got back into the office full time, we had several leaps in our development and productivity due to non-verbal communication barriers being unblocked.

I personally believe many of those who want to be fully remote will come to regret that due to the impact it will have on career advancement and their emotional and social health. Our society is becoming more and more detached from each other and remote work only pushes us further down this path. A hybrid model with clear expectations and boundaries is the best solution that works for me and my goals.

The good CEOs are evaluating and testing out different options to enable the most effective solution that delivers results and builds/maintains the culture they want at their company. They're not going to make everyone happy and if they are coming off of a near 100% wfh setup from COVID, will have a significant challenge on their hands due to strong preferences.

---

Great post. The disconnect with bold are the people that are WFH zealots who still expect the same consideration for promotion as their counterparts who are going in. Yeah, all else being equal I'm going with the person who is going into the office.

The WFH person has zero argument against this IMO. If you want to be promoted, then go the extra mile like your counterpart.

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Yeah, it is harder to manage and lead teams remotely, but the foot soldiers in the company, depending on the role, can execute orders from home.

Interestingly my wife's company is like 50% fully remote, even some managers are fully remote. Somehow they've been making it work. I don't know that the overall company productivity is higher or lower because of it, but they seem to be okay with it. It's a tech company with offices in a few cities, all work is done from a computer, which lends itself to remote work.

My company makes fully remote work possible for experienced technical experts, but they do have a preference for in person due to collaboration that is needed for innovative technology development, and they bring the fully remote workers to HQ pretty frequently to maintain and grow stronger personal connections.

I think a lot people choose fully remote knowing they sacrifice some career opportunity in favor of living in the city of their choosing, which is hard to put a price on when it comes to being near family or raising one.

We have a hybrid schedule and I love it. I absolutely believe that some people are more productive wfh but for many, many reasons I think the vast majority are not.

One perfect example is on the return to work inflation thread. Several Texags posters stated returning to work and having to pay for daycare will be an adjustment. So yeah…..people working from home are so productive they're watching their kids while doing it….

Ya having your kids at home while you work is BS. When I was fully WFH I still kept kids a in daycare. Even though I'm home I still have to treat work as work and give it my full attention.

Waffledynamics said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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I was miserable working from home during peak COVID. Only regret is taking the jab so I could get back in the field. I'm sure plenty of people do well in a WFH environment, but I'd guess far more slack off

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Fire the slackers, then.

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Management knows who the slackers are, and they will be eliminated. There are too many individual assessment/performance metrics to allow the slackers/quiet quitters to hide and to survive. Companies are always improved by shedding dead weight.

The bottom line is this: work from home, hybrid environments are the new norm. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Companies that don't recognize the flexible environment and stick to old school commuting and "face time" type requirements are going to lose and not be able to retain top talent. It is shortsighted and a "this is the way it's always been" type mentality. Things are changing. Companies are going to have to adapt.

htxag09 said:

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We have a hybrid schedule and I love it. I absolutely believe that some people are more productive wfh but for many, many reasons I think the vast majority are not.

One perfect example is on the return to work inflation thread. Several Texags posters stated returning to work and having to pay for daycare will be an adjustment. So yeah…..people working from home are so productive they're watching their kids while doing it….

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Those people are full of ***** If you WFH with kids at home you aren't productive.

WFH labor strike?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/youtube-workers-strike-over-forced-return-to-an-office-most-never-worked-at/ar-AA175mRc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=346c14c4370c47b3a6a7ae7fffb7e26f

2wealfth Man said:

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WFH labor strike?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/youtube-workers-strike-over-forced-return-to-an-office-most-never-worked-at/ar-AA175mRc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=346c14c4370c47b3a6a7ae7fffb7e26f

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"YouTube Music subject matter expert Katie Marschner said remote work allowed her and her coworkers to have side jobs in order to make ends meet."

So she needs to work from home because of her side hustle.

Swan Song said:

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2wealfth Man said:

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WFH labor strike?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/youtube-workers-strike-over-forced-return-to-an-office-most-never-worked-at/ar-AA175mRc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=346c14c4370c47b3a6a7ae7fffb7e26f

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"YouTube Music subject matter expert Katie Marschner said remote work allowed her and her coworkers to have side jobs in order to make ends meet."

So she needs to work from home because of her side hustle.

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People are now acting like the government.

Try cutting your spending. I realize inflation has impacted us all but the millions of people who now suddenly can't make it through life if they can't WFH is ludicrous.

Swan Song said:

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2wealfth Man said:

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WFH labor strike?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/youtube-workers-strike-over-forced-return-to-an-office-most-never-worked-at/ar-AA175mRc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=346c14c4370c47b3a6a7ae7fffb7e26f

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"YouTube Music subject matter expert Katie Marschner said remote work allowed her and her coworkers to have side jobs in order to make ends meet."

So she needs to work from home because of her side hustle.

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Maybe the problem is that her main job is "Youtube Music Subject Matter Expert". Did her parents never tell her, "You know, if that's where your interests lie great, but don't expect to make a lot of money doing it." ?

I was a zookeeper for a couple of years. Loved every second of working with the animals. But after two years I quit. Why? BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO BE POOR ANYMORE AND I WANTED TO START A FAMILY! I sure as hell didn't go on strike or whine to MSN that Busch Gardens should start paying me a salary that's completely illogical with the demands of the job.

Coppell97 said:

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The bottom line is this: work from home, hybrid environments are the new norm. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Companies that don't recognize the flexible environment and stick to old school commuting and "face time" type requirements are going to lose and not be able to retain top talent. It is shortsighted and a "this is the way it's always been" type mentality. Things are changing. Companies are going to have to adapt.

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What about when companies start failing, because 90% of the Wfh crowd doesn't do **** without direct supervision?

YouBet said:

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htxag09 said:

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We have a hybrid schedule and I love it. I absolutely believe that some people are more productive wfh but for many, many reasons I think the vast majority are not.

One perfect example is on the return to work inflation thread. Several Texags posters stated returning to work and having to pay for daycare will be an adjustment. So yeah…..people working from home are so productive they're watching their kids while doing it….

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Those people are full of ***** If you WFH with kids at home you aren't productive.

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Agree 100% and that's my point.

They'll say things like their ceos are dinosaurs making them return to work when they're just as, if not more, productive at home then they'll talk about how much more it'll cost them to work in an office in gas, food, and childcare in the same breath……

ea1060 said:

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All you have to do is take a look at the remote vs in office job posting applications on Linkedin. I applied to a highly paid in office job in Houston with only 22 applicants in a week. Pretty much every single remote job on Linkedin has hundreds of applicants within a few hours. I saw a corporate Starbucks remote posting with 4500+ applicants!

I experience this as well as a Recruiter. Our in office jobs get 1-2 applicants, while our remote jobs get hundreds of applicants. The companies embracing remote work have a larger/better talent pool to choose from. Better talent = higher profits.

Imagine having to hire a very skilled/experienced person in small town North Dakota or Alabama. You can either hope and pray that someone is willing to relocate there (but you will have to pay top $$$), or you can make the job remote and hire anyone in the country.

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Case in point, last year, I hired for a skilled remote role in the USA and the same role in India.

US based role I got more than 300 applicants. The India role had more than 1800 applicants.

One guy I hired in India, his main deal was being allowed to live in Hyderabad instead of Bangalore.

htxag09 said:

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YouBet said:

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htxag09 said:

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We have a hybrid schedule and I love it. I absolutely believe that some people are more productive wfh but for many, many reasons I think the vast majority are not.

One perfect example is on the return to work inflation thread. Several Texags posters stated returning to work and having to pay for daycare will be an adjustment. So yeah…..people working from home are so productive they're watching their kids while doing it….

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Those people are full of ***** If you WFH with kids at home you aren't productive.

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Agree 100% and that's my point.

They'll say things like their ceos are dinosaurs making them return to work when they're just as, if not more, productive at home then they'll talk about how much more it'll cost them to work in an office in gas, food, and childcare in the same breath……

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Which was all doable pre-COVID and now suddenly none of this is possible.

Yes, inflation has impacted us all, thanks in large part to our benevolent government, but it's like we've rapidly entered some kind of Dark Age in the span of 3 years and all of the know how of the Romans has been lost forever to history.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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This is a general survey question for those working for a large corporation at the beginning of covid:

When did you see the very first signs that your company was preparing for covid to be a serious issue?

What was the general timeframe?

I'm not talking about when the decision was made to shut down or WFH ... I'm talking when were the very first signs of senior leadership becoming aware of the situation and acknowledging that covid would become a major business disruption?

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In Australia, it was in February 2020 when Cisco cancelled their big in person conference in Melbourne because of the virus.

In the USA, it was after King Gavin started shutting down the State of California on March 16th, 2020.

Funny thing was that this Royal Decree was rolled out while I was on a flight from Houston to LAX. We took off in Houston where everything was still normal and 3 hours later we landed in the middle of the first offensive against the people of California.

We all knew some sort of lockdown was coming going into spring break here. The schools told the kids to take everything home. I remember that Friday before spring break. My kid ran a personal best at a track meet. She still had district to go but alas, nothing happened and we all got sent home.

I accomplished a bucket list item for my Dad by taking him to the very last Eagles concert here in Dallas at the AAC. They were doing a 3-4 night run here if i recall. Preconcert everyone in the crowd was talking about it and laughing about it.

Eagles cancelled the show planned for very next day and Dallas subsequently shut down. Totally lucked out getting that concert in.

Charpie said:

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We all knew some sort of lockdown was coming going into spring break here. The schools told the kids to take everything home. I remember that Friday before spring break. My kid ran a personal best at a track meet. She still had district to go but alas, nothing happened and we all got sent home.

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Yep, went to a wedding on 3/14/2020 where about 20 guests called and dropped out the day of the wedding due to Covid hype. Really screwed up the headcount for dinner and the table seating arrangements.

I couldn't get a haircut the day before the wedding because they asked me if I had been out of the country in the last 30 days and I said - yes, Australia. They decided that was close enough to China.

My youngest was playing Rugby at her college and was in the middle of their season. Last minute before Spring Break, they were told to take their books and laptops home just in case. We finally got back into her dorm room at the beginning of June and it looked like Chernobyl.

The separation in a roommate's protein shake that had been left out was both an interesting science experiment and also disgusting.

In early June 2020 the funniest things to see in this small town where the college was, were the 98% white George Floyd protest and the fact that in the popular bar in town, all of the beer was in St. Patrick's Day cans which had obviously been stocked before Spring Break.

one safe place said:

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A real enterprising person will hire on at two or three places and work from home for each of them.

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No you get several WFH jobs and then farm them out to employees from overseas

Swan Song said:

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2wealfth Man said:

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WFH labor strike?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/youtube-workers-strike-over-forced-return-to-an-office-most-never-worked-at/ar-AA175mRc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=346c14c4370c47b3a6a7ae7fffb7e26f

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"YouTube Music subject matter expert Katie Marschner said remote work allowed her and her coworkers to have side jobs in order to make ends meet."

So she needs to work from home because of her side hustle.

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Translation: she is doing her side hustles during regular business hours.

You can't do that if you have to go into the office.

I'm starting to see this at my place of work. Up until now, the message had been how productive we were and how good a job we were doing in the face of adversity. It didn't hurt that COVID was good for business, driving bonuses and employee stock programs to levels never seen before.

I think we were close to a formal "back to work" around September 2021, but delta put the brakes on that. There are still lots of people working from home, but out of choice and nothing to do with COVID at this point. Some managers have tried to push a soft "come in two days a week".

Now that business is taking a turn, the CEO is getting itchy. He's concerned that he walks around the building but doesn't see people collaborating. Keep in mind there has been NO company-wide policy established. Unless told otherwise, people will chose work from home or office as they please. If you want people to come in, say so. I know he ain't coming in every day.

I personally hated working at home, and I found online communication with the techs difficult. I don't live far away, so except for the first few weeks I've been coming to the office regularly. I recently wondered if I approached this wrong. Maybe should have moved the mountains and embraces work from home. I could still drive in one day a week.

Looks like that ship has sailed.

I'm sure those revenue numbers have nothing to do with ****ing over consumers on pricing.

They are in for a world of pain if this economic downturn gets worse.

Quote:

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Many of you are discussing and arguing over completely differing work situations and trying to align on a single answer. It's going to vary considerably by industry, company size, seniority, and role. What works for a web development team at a small start up won't work for a product design team at a large toy company.

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This. At a large factory to the office people get to WFH while the line guys have to show up? Won't work.

It's clear that WFH can work (I've been for 27 years) but not in the widespread way that it is now. Humans are social, collective animals. In person face time is needed and the benefits are difficult to quantify, but no less real.

Also, the diligent worker isn't gonna slack off at home or in the office. The slacker is less likely to slack in the office.

Also, the CEOs get the blame when things go south, all those enjoying WFH don't, so it's logical that CEOs want to see the people they're paying.

Amazon reverses course on WFH

Quote:

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The empowered young employees are about to feel the full power of the dark side by corporate America.

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Yep.

Will this be a thing of the past?

BattleGrackle said:

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one safe place said:

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A real enterprising person will hire on at two or three places and work from home for each of them.

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No you get several WFH jobs and then farm them out to employees from overseas

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Hee hee hee
Modern problems require modern solutions.

Swan Song said:

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So she needs to work from home because of her side hustle.

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Say what?

TxTarpon said:

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Swan Song said:

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So she needs to work from home because of her side hustle.

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Say what?

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I think its self explanatory. Most work places don't want you filming OF on premises. WFH allows a much more diverse opportunity there.