Fentanyl question

5,920 Views | 49 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by maverick2076
Aggie95
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dumb question:
You hear of people hooked on Fentanyl sometimes in conjunction with Meth. Yet, we hear that a lethal dose of Fentanyl could be the size of a grain or two of salt. How do those 2 coincide? How would one take Fentanyl on a "regular" basis without killing themselves with an overdose?
Ag87H2O
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I would assume - verrrrry carefully.
CDUB98
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Well, I'd say that's why there are so many fentanyl deaths occurring.
Irish 2.0
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It is all about how well it is homogenously mixed with the filler.
Tailgate88
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I heard the other day that the majority of Fentanyl is being imported by the cartels who are getting from the CCP. The problem is they aren't always identifying it as Fentanyl, so people are taking a pill thinking it's adderall or oxy or some other popular drug and then boom - dead right there of Fentanyl OD.

We ought to tell the Mexicans - we're going to take care of your cartel problem for you. Drone baby drone!
LMCane
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Aggie95 said:

dumb question:
You hear of people hooked on Fentanyl sometimes in conjunction with Meth. Yet, we hear that a lethal dose of Fentanyl could be the size of a grain or two of salt. How do those 2 coincide? How would one take Fentanyl on a "regular" basis without killing themselves with an overdose?
I have never used any type of drug

but I believe the druggies are taking the Meth and not realizing there is a lot of fentanyl mixed in with it by the Cartels/ChiComs

not necessarily that they American druggies are addicted to fentanyl.
ATX_AG_08
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People are hooked on Fentanyl in conjunction with heroin, opioids. It's a super cheap substitute. People are Od-ing on fentanyl itself or fake pills like OxyContin, Xanax, Percocet, etc. that are made with it. The process to make meth is complicated, but I don't think the ingredients are expensive. They don't get the same benefit by cutting it.

I'm sure many addicts are hooked on both meth and fentanyl, but it's not fake meth they are overdosing on.

The precursors to fentanyl are being delivered to Mexico by China. That's 100% accurate.

We should drone the **** out of the Mexican cartels. I'm not sure why everyone laughed at trump when he said so.

Aggie_Boomin 21
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ATX_AG_08 said:

People are hooked on Fentanyl in conjunction with heroin, opioids. It's a super cheap substitute. People are Od-ing on fake pills like OxyContin, Xanax, Percocet, etc.

I'm sure many addicts are hooked on both meth and fentanyl, but it's not fake meth they are overdosing on.

The precursors to fentanyl are being delivered to Mexico by China. That's 100% accurate.



This.

Fentanyl and meth are pretty different in both appearance and effects, don't think people are getting them mixed up as often as other drugs.

There is a problem of it being in cocaine. Fentanyl is cheaper than coke typically and can blend in. Very different affects between these two as well though, so I would expect a regular coke user to notice, if they live through it.
Franklin Comes Alive!
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Tailgate88 said:



We ought to tell the Mexicans - we're going to take care of your cartel problem for you. Drone baby drone!



It'll never happen, Mexico & there narco terrorists do the American establishments dirty work for them….


Drug cartels could be wiped out in a couple months max if the establishment actually wanted that… They don't


American establishment absolutely loves the chaos that cartels create for our country
Pinochet
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A fentanyl overdose for one person may not even be felt by another. At the end of my mother's hospice care, she was getting fentanyl patches that would likely have killed me and are way off any chart I've seen for normal doses, along with other opiates as needed. I don't pretend to know the mechanism for how opiates work with the brain, but clearly a "deadly" dose is highly dependent on the user.

So mixing it in with anything can be fatal to some if it's not mixed well or if the potency is higher than expected.
Aggie95
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I don't understand this. I understand why the swamp and uniparty want certain aspects of hardship to continue but why in the world do they want these drugs streaming into our country?
Demosthenes81
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Canada allows British Columbia to decriminalize low-level drug possession in three-year experiment

Quote:

Under the new plan, which will run from January 2023 through 2026, Canadians aged 18 and older will be allowed to possess up to 2.5 grams of opioids, cocaine, methamphetamine, and MDMA.
And the reason?

Quote:

Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart welcomed the drug decriminalization experiment, saying that it will "remove police from the lives of drug users and instead connect them to a growing array of effective healthcare services."

"We need to detoxify our drug supply with [legalized], uncontaminated supply of illicit substances, build more purpose-built housing with embedded health care supports, and approve more safe and supervised consumption sites," Stewart said Tuesday.
The ultimate socialist state when the government provides you the drugs, a place to use them and medical treatment when you OD.
Ellis Wyatt
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Aggie95 said:

dumb question:
You hear of people hooked on Fentanyl sometimes in conjunction with Meth. Yet, we hear that a lethal dose of Fentanyl could be the size of a grain or two of salt. How do those 2 coincide? How would one take Fentanyl on a "regular" basis without killing themselves with an overdose?
I have heard that drugs have (or at least pot has) become stronger and stronger over the years. I assume that's because the production methods have become more "professional" since so much is streaming across the border. I also assume that coincides with the increase in fentanyl in the drugs. It's like playing Russian Roulette-- a person never knows when their dose will be deadly because there is no standard.

I say this as a person who has never used an illegal drug, but I have lost two extended family members to overdoses since the pandemic hit. Both were longtime drug addicts. I have no idea what specific drugs they were taking when they died, just that both were killed by fentanyl.
aggiez03
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Two or so years ago, Sam Ehlinger's little brother, linebacker at t.u, died in his bed from a Fentanyl OD, that was laced in his X or Adderall that he thought was just a party drug.

Fentanyl is cheap comparative to other drugs, so it make its way into lots of drugs. Big high for small cost so dealers add it.

Additionally, it is not like the guys making it are scrubbing their equipment between batches, like Walter White and Jesse did, so I am sure there is all sorts of cross contamination as well.
LMCane
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Aggie95 said:

I don't understand this. I understand why the swamp and uniparty want certain aspects of hardship to continue but why in the world do they want these drugs streaming into our country?
there is a difference between "wanting drugs"-

and "not wanting to stop illegal immigrants from becoming democrat party voters".
Detmersdislocatedshoulder
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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

Tailgate88 said:



We ought to tell the Mexicans - we're going to take care of your cartel problem for you. Drone baby drone!



It'll never happen, Mexico & there narco terrorists do the American establishments dirty work for them….


Drug cartels could be wiped out in a couple months max if the establishment actually wanted that… They don't


American establishment absolutely loves the chaos that cartels create for our country



no doubt who do you think obama and eric holder sent the guns to with fast and furious? the mexican cartel serves a purpose and they ain't going anywhere but maybe further north.
AgFormerlyInIrving
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How do I safely take fentanyl?

Asking for a friend.
W
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and may or may not get the person to the hospital in time.

of course that might be part of the plan
SWCBonfire
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Franklin Comes Alive! said:

Tailgate88 said:



We ought to tell the Mexicans - we're going to take care of your cartel problem for you. Drone baby drone!



It'll never happen, Mexico & there narco terrorists do the American establishments dirty work for them….


Drug cartels could be wiped out in a couple months max if the establishment actually wanted that… They don't


American establishment absolutely loves the chaos that cartels create for our country


Caveat: I hate drugs and what they do to people, and how they empower and finance organized crime. I also hate the dubious means of controlling it attempted by government.

That said, it would be well within the M.O. of our letter agencies that El Chapo would once again be allowed to tunnel out of jail with the understanding that the flow of fentanyl and human trafficking stops, now. I get being principled, but in the real world that's probably the fastest solution to several problems, and will stop a lot of senseless deaths in the long run. Short run, not so much.

Maybe someone on here can point out the flaws in this "event". Certainly some violence in Mexico as power levels readjust.
TxTarpon
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Quote:

How do those 2 coincide?
Cheap meth is made more potent with fentanyl.
Quote:

How would one take Fentanyl on a "regular" basis without killing themselves with an overdose?
In general?
Low dosage.
Legal drug makers ensure that.

LMCane
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SWCBonfire said:

Franklin Comes Alive! said:

Tailgate88 said:



We ought to tell the Mexicans - we're going to take care of your cartel problem for you. Drone baby drone!



It'll never happen, Mexico & there narco terrorists do the American establishments dirty work for them….


Drug cartels could be wiped out in a couple months max if the establishment actually wanted that… They don't


American establishment absolutely loves the chaos that cartels create for our country


Caveat: I hate drugs and what they do to people, and how they empower and finance organized crime. I also hate the dubious means of controlling it attempted by government.

That said, it would be well within the M.O. of our letter agencies that El Chapo would once again be allowed to tunnel out of jail with the understanding that the flow of fentanyl and human trafficking stops, now. I get being principled, but in the real world that's probably the fastest solution to several problems, and will stop a lot of senseless deaths in the long run. Short run, not so much.

Maybe someone on here can point out the flaws in this "event". Certainly some violence in Mexico as power levels readjust.

why would we want to just stop fentanyl but allow every other drug through?

at least with the Fentanyl that is most likely causing some Americans to NOT do drugs

I don't see how MAKING ILLEGAL DRUG USE SAFER for the users is a net positive to America

how about actually crushing the cartels and sealing the border?
Adverse Event
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Ellis Wyatt said:

Aggie95 said:

dumb question:
You hear of people hooked on Fentanyl sometimes in conjunction with Meth. Yet, we hear that a lethal dose of Fentanyl could be the size of a grain or two of salt. How do those 2 coincide? How would one take Fentanyl on a "regular" basis without killing themselves with an overdose?
I have heard that drugs have (or at least pot has) become stronger and stronger over the years. I assume that's because the production methods have become more "professional" since so much is streaming across the border. I also assume that coincides with the increase in fentanyl in the drugs. It's like playing Russian Roulette-- a person never knows when their dose will be deadly because there is no standard.

I say this as a person who has never used an illegal drug, but I have lost two extended family members to overdoses since the pandemic hit. Both were longtime drug addicts. I have no idea what specific drugs they were taking when they died, just that both were killed by fentanyl.



Cannabis continues to be selectively bred for specific cannabinoid profiles. In the past seeds were thrown in a field and grown by sun and rain, currently we have very specific feeding and lighting metrics that help dictate more specific profiles.

The primary "stronger" aspect is that growers select for THC dominant strains (cultivars) of cannabis and then trying to reduce cannabinoids that would normally interfere with THC like CBD reducing the high. The uncontrolled sungrown varietals of the past had little control and generally had more CBD present and less THC (depending on harvest date) both reducing the potential high. (This is by no means a comprehensive explanation but as basic as I can generate at the moment)

Cannabis is nothing similar to chemistry and synthetic drugs, unless youre talking about big pharma synthetic THC/etc.



That my current perspective on opioid/heroin/fentanyl is that people got hooked on pharma prescribed specifically dosed painkillers and when the scripts dried up the withdrawals are incredibly difficult and addiction incredibly difficult to overcome.
This leaves victims who trusted their Primary Care Dr (who got vacations paid for by big pharma) bouncing from clinic to clinic and eventually hooking up with street dealers.

Street dealers distribute drugs from cartels with unspecified quantities of myriad chemicals, Rarely tested.

One of the biggest positive efforts to reduce death and other negatives of street drugs is an emphasis on testing and education.

Another step in the right direction, possibly, is to provide tested and clean drugs cheaper than the cartels. Then incentivize reduction of use over time and eventually eliminating it.

Imagine the government incentivized street cleaning and other for "free" drugs instead of incentivizing stealing catalytic converters and other crime? Meth/speed heads would have these streets clean in seconds.
Dimebag Darrell
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They gave me fentanyl before my hand surgery shortly before I faded into darkness a few months ago. It has legit medical uses.

I just think there are varying concentrations in the powder form making it into this country and you are exclusively relying on cartel and street scientists to get the formulas correct when cutting your dope. These are illiterate, uneducated, fatherless derelicts we are talking. And your life is in their hands.
American Hardwood
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Quote:

The ultimate socialist state when the government provides you the drugs, a place to use them and medical treatment when you OD.
SOMA for the masses.
Adverse Event
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American Hardwood said:

Quote:

The ultimate socialist state when the government provides you the drugs, a place to use them and medical treatment when you OD.
SOMA for the masses.
and the ultimate anarcho-tyrannist state when the government denies access to clean or dirty drugs, after legalizing their overprescription, and then doesn't separate the violent criminals from the people in need of help, and further doesn't prosecute crime in any manner that reduces it.

whats the better system? hard to tell. we could try murdering anyone even inquiring for drugs like whatever that guy in the phillipines was doing.

in reality, majority of these folk could use a timeout in an institution specializing in recovery as we had in the past (psych wards).

If wards came back and combined Cognitive behavioral therapy with psychedelics, we could churn out people with no addiction and ready to contribute to some level of society far from what they came in able to perform, IMO.

Horse with No Name
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SWCBonfire said:





Caveat: I hate drugs and what they do to people, and how they empower and finance organized crime. I also hate the dubious means of controlling it attempted by government.

That said, it would be well within the M.O. of our letter agencies that El Chapo would once again be allowed to tunnel out of jail with the understanding that the flow of fentanyl and human trafficking stops, now. I get being principled, but in the real world that's probably the fastest solution to several problems, and will stop a lot of senseless deaths in the long run. Short run, not so much.

Maybe someone on here can point out the flaws in this "event". Certainly some violence in Mexico as power levels readjust.
This might work in movie, but what would Chapo rule over if he didn't have drugs and trafficking? That's the only reason he has any money or power. He's not just going to say, "ah shucks, I'm so happy to be free that I'll be the new enforcer for you!"

Now, maybe if the US gov paid so well that he made more money being the enforcer, but I don't know how big that number is...
Ridin' 'cross the desert. . .
Horse with No Name
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Ellis Wyatt said:

Aggie95 said:

dumb question:
You hear of people hooked on Fentanyl sometimes in conjunction with Meth. Yet, we hear that a lethal dose of Fentanyl could be the size of a grain or two of salt. How do those 2 coincide? How would one take Fentanyl on a "regular" basis without killing themselves with an overdose?
I have heard that drugs have (or at least pot has) become stronger and stronger over the years. I assume that's because the production methods have become more "professional" since so much is streaming across the border. I also assume that coincides with the increase in fentanyl in the drugs. It's like playing Russian Roulette-- a person never knows when their dose will be deadly because there is no standard.

I say this as a person who has never used an illegal drug, but I have lost two extended family members to overdoses since the pandemic hit. Both were longtime drug addicts. I have no idea what specific drugs they were taking when they died, just that both were killed by fentanyl.

Its pretty amazing, and not fully understood by medicine, but the level of pain a person is in has a direct effect on their tolerance for drugs.

Worst day of my life--my disk literally came apart in my low back, and I progressed from physical therapist, to S&W clinic to St. Joseph ER. At the ER I was given IV valium and 3 doses of morphine before being sent home. I didn't even slur my words that night. Nobody believed that I had been fed that amount of drugs, except that my future wife was in the room with me the whole time at the ER.
Ridin' 'cross the desert. . .
agent-maroon
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AgFormerlyInIrving said:

How do I safely take fentanyl?

Asking for a friend.
Your friend needs to have someone who has an ambu bag and mask ventilating skills standing by in case you go apneic, as well as a working IV, ventilator, induction drugs, vasopressors, intubation supplies, and an anesthesia monitor in case you suffer a complete cardiovascular collapse.

IOW - this isn't a drug to fool around with. I know of several anesthesiologists/residents who accidently OD'd and they had administered fentanyl many thousands of times. The fentanyl dosage dilution math gets pretty fuzzy when you're impaired
agent-maroon
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aggiez03 said:

Two or so years ago, Sam Ehlinger's little brother, linebacker at t.u, died in his bed from a Fentanyl OD, that was laced in his X or Adderall that he thought was just a party drug.

Fentanyl is cheap comparative to other drugs, so it make its way into lots of drugs. Big high for small cost so dealers add it.

Additionally, it is not like the guys making it are scrubbing their equipment between batches, like Walter White and Jesse did, so I am sure there is all sorts of cross contamination as well.
Fentanyl is smuggled in a highly concentrated form and must be diluted (cut) before anyone can use it. The pharma manufacturers have blending equipment and take the time to assure a homogenous blend plus they QC the hell out of it before they ship. The cartels have a vato shaking it around in a coffee can with God knows what to cut it with and a uniform blend is unlikely. You're going to have low concentrations and hot doses with poor labeling if there's any communication of the concentrations at all. Low doses make for unhappy clients. Hot doses make for corpses.
newbie11
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Ok. As a retired anesthesiologist, I can tell you that fentanyl is an amazing drug and a terrible drug. It has a wonderful profile, pharmacologically. Is Dosed in microgram doses rather than milligrams like morphine or Demerol. It is very stable on your body's physiologics such as Bp, hr, etc. It was very widely used for cardiac cases because of this quality where you don't want big changes in hr, bp, etc. It's excellent at blunting the response to painful stimulation. Way way better than morphine or Demerol.

Here's the downside….it's highly addictive. I knew one of the early investigators into the drug and He considered at the end of his career that allowing fentanyl to get approved for use was one of the Biggest mistakes he made in his very distinguished career. It was humbling to hear him speak about it.

People who take fentanyl rapidly require higher and higher doses to achieve the same effects. Respiratory depression is very common but again, as you use the drug recreationally, you develop tolerance to that as well.

Many anesthesiologists have overdosed and died due to fentanyl. Many. It is probably the number one abused drug by my specialty except for maybe alcohol recreationally.

So…because it's microgram dosed….the concentration in powder form is phenomenal. That's why you see stories of first responders or police officers inhaling the drug in powder form during raids and dying or arresting. It is delivered nasally by anesthesiologists as well. It's easily absorbed and fast acting.

My advice…..don't ever take drugs. Not ever. Don't ever take elicit substances because they might be laced. Just remember…1 gram of fentanyl….1/28th of an ounce is easily powerful enough to kill you. Respiratory depression is main cause.
aggiez03
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newbie11 said:



Many anesthesiologists have overdosed and died due to fentanyl. Many. It is probably the number one abused drug by my specialty except for maybe alcohol recreationally.

Wow. Thanks for the insight from a medical perspective.

Seems crazy that the people who should know better are getting killed by it as well.

We always assume it is druggies or kids who got a bad dose off the street.

I have told my kids the same. Don't touch anything as the one time, might be your only and last time.
Adverse Event
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sorry to chime in again, but the research being done with psychedelics on pain is interesting too.

When you take ketamine at high doses (high enough to produce anesthesia), the drug will also induce a feeling of disconnection or detachment from your environment and self.


No Body, No Pain.

My anesthetist recommended Ketamine when i had surgery since i didn't want opioids, and it was a fascinating surgery, apparently i was talking the whole time and when I "came to" i remember looking at my wife and effusive love and happiness poured from my brain out my mouth that normally get through layers of frustration, fatigue or other negative emotions from day to day life.

Ketamine is interesting in that it's a legal drug and it's already being used in every state for psychedelic therapies, but i believe has it's own drawbacks (or benefits from a business perspective) where effects arent as long lasting as other researched psychedelics.



pain is a very interesting topic. its unfortunate that we incentivized Big Pharma to mis- or undereducate physicians and hospital systems.
AGinHI
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Tailgate88 said:

I heard the other day that the majority of Fentanyl is being imported by the cartels who are getting from the CCP.

Quote:

In this awful drama of a great state breaking into pieces, the internal causes were the unseen protagonists; the invading barbarians merely entered where weakness had opened the door, and where the failure of biological, moral, economic, and political statesmanship had left the stage to chaos, despondency, and decay.
-Will Durant on the Roman Empire in Caesar and Christ
“We don't have a government of the people, by the people, for the people. We have government of the people, by the bureaucrats, for the bureaucrats.”

-Milton Friedman
fasthorse05
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Ag87H2O said:

I would assume - verrrrry carefully.
Just like porcupines have sex--------verrrry carefully.
fasthorse05
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agent-maroon said:

aggiez03 said:

Two or so years ago, Sam Ehlinger's little brother, linebacker at t.u, died in his bed from a Fentanyl OD, that was laced in his X or Adderall that he thought was just a party drug.

Fentanyl is cheap comparative to other drugs, so it make its way into lots of drugs. Big high for small cost so dealers add it.

Additionally, it is not like the guys making it are scrubbing their equipment between batches, like Walter White and Jesse did, so I am sure there is all sorts of cross contamination as well.
Fentanyl is smuggled in a highly concentrated form and must be diluted (cut) before anyone can use it. The pharma manufacturers have blending equipment and take the time to assure a homogenous blend plus they QC the hell out of it before they ship. The cartels have a vato shaking it around in a coffee can with God knows what to cut it with and a uniform blend is unlikely. You're going to have low concentrations and hot doses with poor labeling if there's any communication of the concentrations at all. Low doses make for unhappy clients. Hot doses make for corpses.
Everything I've read recently suggests the Chinese are now just sending the necessary ingredients and the Mexicans have taken over the majority of making the fentanyl.

However, I could be wrong, but it would make some sense.

Being in discipline in high school, it's 100% astounding how little these young people know about fentanyl. Most of the kids I see, since it's discipline, either use weed regularly, or branch out (so to speak) into other drugs.

I've finally gotten through to some of them by showing them 3 different pics of lethal doses of fentanyl. Most of these dodos never think about zanax, percocet, oxycontin, etc. being laced with fentanyl. I've finally gotten through to most of them that the next time they take a pill from something other than a pharmacy, they can be dead in about 15 minutes. The pictures are the only thing I've ever seen that makes any difference to them. The cartels lace the drugs with it just to further the chance they might be getting the user addicted. They give two ****s if the user dies.

You go to sleep, then stop breathing. That's it.

BTW, newbie, one of my best buddies is a gas-passer at Baylor in Dallas, class of '84.
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