You explained it better in your response, because what I highlighted states that you think a consumption tax would be a great addition to the already overbearing progressive tax system we have.

I am always wrong said:

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Old McDonald said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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good, tax the rich (if you're reading this, by definition this doesn't apply to you)

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Just for the sake of conversation - what do you define as "rich"?

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people who make millions a year but evade taxes through accounting loopholes. the net worth >$100mm crowd.

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1. What "accounting loopholes" do they use to evade taxes?

2. Tax evasion is a crime. They are either evading taxes or not evading taxes. If they are evading taxes, why are none of them being criminally prosecuted?

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Don't waste your time trying to understand the liberal mind virus.

not hedge said:

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Why is it always the wannabes who defend the ultra rich as if they will one day become them

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Because you yourself have defined "ultra rich" in very achievable terms.

not hedge said:

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Why is it always the wannabes who defend the ultra rich as if they will one day become them

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I'll give a serious reply in the very slim chance you'll actually listen to and ponder it. The "wannabes" are actual adults with plans to work hard and create their own future (self-reliance), understand history, what happens when you don't understand/learn from it and also understand how our government works.

Your problem is you look at wealth and success as a mythical finite resource and your jealousy causes you to post things like what I quoted above. You are the metaphorical crab in the bucket trying to pull others down to you.

IslanderAg04 said:

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Admiral Adama said:

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I understand why Amazon is doing it, but I don't understand is why we all collectively don't look at this race to the bottom and say we're not going to subsidize megacorp for blessing us with their jobs. In a perfect world, the additional increase in economic activity that Amazon provides is taxed and it means the community has a surplus of funds in excess of their operating requirements, and can cut taxes for everyone.

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Fyi, but corporations dont have some money pit where they throw profits into. They are used to pay debts, bonuses to employees (in revenue), payroll increases, expansion, development, and headcount. Profits are down, layoffs happen, offices get closed, and so on. Especially during a recession when debt is expensive. Plus you used Amazon as an example, who's core principal is to roll profits back into company growth. Where people got this, corporations are evil, is beyond me. Without them, we wouldn't be the super power we are now. You want to over tax cororations you better get ready for some massive layoffs and rifs.

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Corporations don't pay taxes.

Consumers, shareholders, and employees pay those taxes.

Admiral Adama said:

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I understand why Amazon is doing it, but I don't understand is why we all collectively don't look at this race to the bottom and say we're not going to subsidize megacorp for blessing us with their jobs. In a perfect world, the additional increase in economic activity that Amazon provides is taxed and it means the community has a surplus of funds in excess of their operating requirements, and can cut taxes for everyone.

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There is so much to unpack here... but lets do it

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... say we're not going to subsidize megacorp for blessing us with their jobs.

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Uhh, I am sure the people who choose to work there actually do feel "blessed with their jobs". I don't work for them, but I am "blessed with a job". It means I can eat, I can put a roof over my families head, go on vacation, do fun things, etc. so, yes, it actually is a blessing that so many people can be in a better position in life than they would have been without that job.

Quote:

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In a perfect world, the additional increase in economic activity that Amazon provides is taxed...

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It is taxed, just some local taxes are put on hold in order to make it more economically viable for the people in the area to have that work. But I assure you, the amount of taxes brought in goes up when that company opens their facility, through a multitude of avenues.

Quote:

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... and it means the community has a surplus of funds in excess of their operating requirements, and can cut taxes for everyone.

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On the flip side, because the company has lower taxes, that makes operating expenses lower, which allows for the possibility of higher wages. I would consider the likelihood of higher wages from the company a much higher probability of happening than any level of government cutting taxes because of higher tax revenue.

SMM48 said:

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No such thing as loopholes. Is either legal or illegal.

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Stop bringing facts into an emotional argument!!!

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Setting up confiscation of 401Ks etc?

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More likely forced liquidation of part of your 401K each year in order to pay the taxes on your wealth contained in your 401K.

PCC_80 said:

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Quote:

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Setting up confiscation of 401Ks etc?

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More likely forced liquidation of part of your 401K each year in order to pay the taxes on your wealth contained in your 401K.

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I don't think democrats flat out confiscate 401ks becuase I think that is one of the few things that would make this cold civil war go hot

Why would they anyways, they're doing quite well destroying this country by just increasing the boiling water a degree at a time.

Phatbob said:

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Admiral Adama said:

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I understand why Amazon is doing it, but I don't understand is why we all collectively don't look at this race to the bottom and say we're not going to subsidize megacorp for blessing us with their jobs. In a perfect world, the additional increase in economic activity that Amazon provides is taxed and it means the community has a surplus of funds in excess of their operating requirements, and can cut taxes for everyone.

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There is so much to unpack here... but lets do it

Quote:

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... say we're not going to subsidize megacorp for blessing us with their jobs.

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Uhh, I am sure the people who choose to work there actually do feel "blessed with their jobs". I don't work for them, but I am "blessed with a job". It means I can eat, I can put a roof over my families head, go on vacation, do fun things, etc. so, yes, it actually is a blessing that so many people can be in a better position in life than they would have been without that job.

Quote:

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In a perfect world, the additional increase in economic activity that Amazon provides is taxed...

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It is taxed, just some local taxes are put on hold in order to make it more economically viable for the people in the area to have that work. But I assure you, the amount of taxes brought in goes up when that company opens their facility, through a multitude of avenues.

Quote:

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... and it means the community has a surplus of funds in excess of their operating requirements, and can cut taxes for everyone.

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On the flip side, because the company has lower taxes, that makes operating expenses lower, which allows for the possibility of higher wages. I would consider the likelihood of higher wages from the company a much higher probability of happening than any level of government cutting taxes because of higher tax revenue.

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This is a lot of words to say that you support socialism for large companies so that the local community small businesses can pay the actual cost of running local services. I'm making a crazy suggestion that we tax Amazon, the same way we do the restaurant and brewery in and don't give them any special goodies because we just think they're so special. Those other people who have jobs in the local community are also happy to have those as well, but those employers actually have to pay taxes that go against their bottom line so so now they can't even compete in an even playing field. Higher expenses for the little guy and all the pork for the big guy. Sounds like a swell system.

People have referred to skin in the game so many times in this thread and then when it comes to mega corporation having the same skin in the game in their local community as everyone else, we act like that's some awful trespass against the altar of capitalism.

I agree with you. Cronyism should be avoided and reduced. Best way to do that is to drastically reduce the power and scope of government, so that there is no incentive for corporations to bribe their way into paying lower taxes. A flat tax encourages that.

Old McDonald said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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Anyone that thinks congress, a collection of some of the most wealthy people in the country, are going to create laws to tax wealthy people for the benefit of the middle class is a moron and likely 1/1024 Cherokee Indian.

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this is the unfortunate reality. politicians will never bite the hand that feeds them.

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Finally! Something we can agree on. Everything else you said in this thread is nonsense.

spider96 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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How is borrowing money income?

But let's play out your logic. If I borrow $300k for a house, My income should be taxed at $300k plus my salary? In addition to the property taxes?

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good example actually. on a mortgage, your house is the collateral and you pay property taxes on it. in the billionaire's case, the collateral is unrealized gains from equities and no taxes are paid.

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Why should you pay taxes on UNREALIZED gains? Unrealized means that the gains are theoretical.

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I had stock options in a company I worked for. When I had the scratch to exercise those options, I got to pay taxes on the unrealized gains. Let me tell you that tax bill sucked.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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PCC_80 said:

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Quote:

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Setting up confiscation of 401Ks etc?

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More likely forced liquidation of part of your 401K each year in order to pay the taxes on your wealth contained in your 401K.

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I don't think democrats flat out confiscate 401ks becuase I think that is one of the few things that would make this cold civil war go hot

Why would they anyways, they're doing quite well destroying this country by just increasing the boiling water a degree at a time.

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By taxing wealth the Dems/Libs do not have to confiscate 401K's. They can simply send you a tax bill every year for the wealth that you have in your 401K plus your home, plus your cars, plus anything else you own.

You will then most likely have to dip into your 401K every year to pay your wealth tax. So much for your retirement plans.

SMM48 said:

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No such thing as loopholes. Is either legal or illegal.

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You are correct. What occurs is the federal government has made the tax laws so complex even they cannot predict or care whether the intent of the law happens.

Apple and others used Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich. Perfectly legal and completely unforeseen by our geniuses in the federal government. I am sure there are others used on a personal income tax level.

Instead of reducing the complexity of tax code these idiots want to increase the complexity which inevitably will result in more methods to avoid taxes legally.

Seems strange only some Republicans know or care that every time the tax rates are lowered the tax revenues increase. Hell even President JFK who lowered the unbelievably high marginal tax rates saw a large increase in tax revenues.

Old McDonald said:

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good, tax the rich (if you're reading this, by definition this doesn't apply to you)

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Who defines "rich", chief?

And they do

And yet they do pay taxes- more than anyone else- and follow the rules as written. Now about the 45-50% that pay zero federal income taxes…

Or have a negative effective tax rate

Old McDonald said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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good, tax the rich (if you're reading this, by definition this doesn't apply to you)

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Just for the sake of conversation - what do you define as "rich"?

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people who make millions a year but evade taxes through accounting loopholes. the net worth >$100mm crowd.

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You don't know how this works, do you? Those "accounting loopholes" are deliberately built in so that the congressmen who wrote them "the rich" can take advantage of them. Then, as the tax mysteriously fails to produce the expected revenue, and combined with inflation, it is slowly but surely phased into being applicable to us regular folk.

dmart90 said:

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spider96 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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How is borrowing money income?

But let's play out your logic. If I borrow $300k for a house, My income should be taxed at $300k plus my salary? In addition to the property taxes?

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good example actually. on a mortgage, your house is the collateral and you pay property taxes on it. in the billionaire's case, the collateral is unrealized gains from equities and no taxes are paid.

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Why should you pay taxes on UNREALIZED gains? Unrealized means that the gains are theoretical.

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I had stock options in a company I worked for. When I had the scratch to exercise those options, I got to pay taxes on the unrealized gains. Let me tell you that tax bill sucked.

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At that point you certainly realized your tax liability.