TexAgs91 said:

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Agreed. It is very compelling.

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so how'd it turn out?

Pookers said:

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doubledog said:

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waitwhat? said:

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lethalninja said:

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Why do you consider Lincoln a top two contender for the worst?

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Well the civil war and precedents set are pretty bad

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Refresh my memory, did Lincoln fire on Fort Sumter?

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No, he just baited the south into it and made the war all but inevitable. People should read in to the civil war more than what you're taught in middle school. Lincoln was a Hamiltonian big government statist who hated the constitution and hated criticism of his actions. He threw many a northern journalist into prison for having the gall to say the south should be able to secede.

---

Having read quite a bit since middle school about the Civil War, Lincoln, and US history, I think Lincoln is the greatest president in US history. He led (in every sense of the word) our country through it's only true existential crisis, preserved the Union, and saved the soul of America. To say he hated the constitution is to show how little you really understand Lincoln.

The more I study men like Washington and Lincoln, the more in awe I am that our nation would produce such people...we're sorely lacking anything close to them today. They were truly godsent leaders for our great country - divinely suited for the times and crucibles they would lead us through.

Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Agreed. It is very compelling.

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so how'd it turn out?

---

Why do you think it's compelling?

Worst:

Woodrow Wilson

His handling of the Treaty of Versailles led to WW2.
Revived the KKK
Promoted Jim Crow laws.
Worked to keep blacks out of the federal government
Installed the Federal Income Tax which allowed for massive growth of the federal government
Used anti sedition laws to silence opposition

It is really rare that communists and facists would all love someone.


Best:

I am going to go with one that isn't talked about enough;

Calvin Coolidge

He cut a lot of taxes. During his presidency, he cut taxes enough so that only the top 2% paid any taxes. This freed the vast majority of people to spend their money however they wished. He advanced American capitalism.

He reduced the national debt in the greatest decrease then seen in American history. He cut the national debt by 1/4. He made sure that it stayed that way by limiting government spending.

He helped advocate reforms for equality. He signed the Indian Citizenship Act which gave Native Americans American citizenship. He began to advocate for true Civil Rights for African-Americans. While nothing happened with it during his presidency, it began the national discussion that eventually led to complete civil rights.

He began to take criminals out of the government. He prosecuted corrupt government officials from the Harding days. He was steadfast in his goal of justice for those who were involved in the scandals. He also broke the KKK's influence in the government. All of the people he put in power were vetted to be sure they had no KKK connections. He believed that hate groups shouldn't be in the government. This began the KKK's decline.

He also tried to stabilize the world. He tried to get the U.S. to join the World Court. He believed that some crimes were so great that they needed to be tried on a world stage. He used the Dawes Plan to help Germany with their WWI payments. The plan basically made the war money Germany had to pay manageable. It divided the payments into reasonable amounts paid at certain times. He also helped to create the Kellogg-Briand Pact. This pact outlawed the used of war to solve problems and advocated peaceful solutions to problems. It also attempted to make world peace. He also stabilized the Mexican government. He withdrew troops from the Dominican Republic, visited Cuba to help with relations (the last time a president did until Obama), and helped to create stronger alliances in Latin America.

In addition to all of this, he founded the modern conservative movement. He wanted small government, limited immigration, and a limited national debt. His ideas influenced many Americans, including future president Ronald Reagan.

Obama

Noblemen06 said:

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Pookers said:

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doubledog said:

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waitwhat? said:

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lethalninja said:

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Why do you consider Lincoln a top two contender for the worst?

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Well the civil war and precedents set are pretty bad

---

Refresh my memory, did Lincoln fire on Fort Sumter?

---

No, he just baited the south into it and made the war all but inevitable. People should read in to the civil war more than what you're taught in middle school. Lincoln was a Hamiltonian big government statist who hated the constitution and hated criticism of his actions. He threw many a northern journalist into prison for having the gall to say the south should be able to secede.

---

Having read quite a bit since middle school about the Civil War, Lincoln, and US history, I think Lincoln is the greatest president in US history. He led (in every sense of the word) our country through it's only true existential crisis, preserved the Union, and saved the soul of America. To say he hated the constitution is to show how little you really understand Lincoln.

The more I study men like Washington and Lincoln, the more in awe I am that our nation would produce such people...we're sorely lacking anything close to them today. They were truly godsent leaders for our great country - divinely suited for the times and crucibles they would lead us through.

---

Lincoln didn't "preserve the Union", he destroyed it. Before the civil war the US was truly a union of sovereign states united for a common purpose. After Lincoln's war, the states became nothing but subjects of the federal government. No longer united for a common purpose, but "united" because the federal government will force them to stay regardless of how oppressive a state feels the federal government has become.

lethalninja said:

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I was saying that he won the popular vote, even if all the fraudulent votes were thrown out. How was him winning the electoral college illegitimate? 38 of his 306 electoral votes (12.42 percent, almost one in eight) would have needed to be illegitimate in order for Trump to have actually gotten the required 270 votes (Trump had 232).

---

I mean this with all due respect, because I think you're probably intelligent, but uninformed. You really need to spend some time learning how presidential elections work in this country, just an hour of research would help. Your comment above indicates a complete lack of understanding of the electoral college. You cannot have any argument about fraud (or lack thereof) without at least understanding how the electoral process was designed to work.

If you don't mind me asking, are you a natural born US citizen?

I am, and I read some of the PDF TexAgs91 sent me, so I'm more aware now. It's possible that Biden's victory in the electoral college was illegitimate because of the things mentioned in the PDF, but it's not a guarantee. I know that if a presidential candidate wins a state, all of the electoral votes for that state go towards them (unless there's faithless electors, which there weren't in the 2020 election).

Worst:
1. Obama
2. Jimmy Carter.

Best:
1. Reagan
2. DJT

Barack Obama and Barack Obama.

Biden is the worst president of my lifetime.
Trump is the second worst.
Carter is in 3rd place.

43

Biden, Wilson, FDR, WJC, Carter, Obama, Lincoln, LBJ, no particular order, just Biden first.

WJC is William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton, for those of you who are unsure which president that was.

Klain

Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump.

CollegeStationNative said:

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Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump.

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Try to be more subtle when trolling. YWIA and welcome to F16 "new poster."

doubledog said:

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waitwhat? said:

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lethalninja said:

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Why do you consider Lincoln a top two contender for the worst?

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Well the civil war and precedents set are pretty bad

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Refresh my memory, did Lincoln fire on Fort Sumter?

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Negative Ghostrider

it's actually pretty amazing how the Federal government did nothing while the Confederates were literally attacking and taking over US government forts and armories throughout the South.

again, this is why the only answer to this question is JAMES BUCHANAN as the worst President in US history

Im Gipper said:

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CollegeStationNative said:

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Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump.

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Try to be more subtle when trolling. YWIA and welcome to F16 "new poster."

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Obama and Clinton are the two best Presidents of my lifetime.

Jury still out on Biden.

He's the only president to never get married.

CollegeStationNative said:

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Im Gipper said:

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CollegeStationNative said:

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Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump.

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Try to be more subtle when trolling. YWIA and welcome to F16 "new poster."

---

Obama and Clinton are the two best Presidents of my lifetime.

Jury still out on Biden.

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Based on your posts, I would have guessed Clinton's presidency predated your birth by 10-12 years.

when people say (current president) is the wOrSt eVArrrrr I always chuckle a little. Recency bias is a helluva drug.

Ag with kids said:

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FDR...

The New Deal programs he brought in are the cause of all the big government **** we have today.

---

For the right, and from a fiscal policy perspective, you nailed it. He got the ball rolling for all those things you mentioned and more.

Now that doesn't mean every business, small and large, aren't thrilled with taking the government money those programs generate, but still, they only exist because the ball got rolling, and has kept rolling ever since

CollegeStationNative said:

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Im Gipper said:

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CollegeStationNative said:

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Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump.

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Try to be more subtle when trolling. YWIA and welcome to F16 "new poster."

---

Obama and Clinton are the two best Presidents of my lifetime.

Jury still out on Biden.

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So you're admitting to being a moron?

No Spin Ag said:

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Ag with kids said:

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FDR...

The New Deal programs he brought in are the cause of all the big government **** we have today.

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For the right, and from a fiscal policy perspective, you nailed it. He got the ball rolling for all those things you mentioned and more.

Now that doesn't mean every business, small and large, aren't thrilled with taking the government money those programs generate, but still, they only exist because the ball got rolling, and has kept rolling ever since

---

Everyone LOVES Santa Claus.

FDR just turned the FedGov into Santa Claus...

TexAgs91 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Agreed. It is very compelling.

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so how'd it turn out?

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Why do you think it's compelling?

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i was being sarcastic, it's not. scotus agrees.

Obama.








Johnson
Carter
Wilson
Hoover
Pierce

Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Agreed. It is very compelling.

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so how'd it turn out?

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Why do you think it's compelling?

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i was being sarcastic, it's not. scotus agrees.

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So you think states should be able to bypass their state legislatures on election law in violation of their constitution?

TexAgs91 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Agreed. It is very compelling.

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so how'd it turn out?

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Why do you think it's compelling?

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i was being sarcastic, it's not. scotus agrees.

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So you think states should be able to bypass their state legislatures on election law in violation of their constitution?

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did they do that?? sounds pretty serious, we should get scotus to weigh in on it

Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Old McDonald said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Agreed. It is very compelling.

---

so how'd it turn out?

---

Why do you think it's compelling?

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i was being sarcastic, it's not. scotus agrees.

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So you think states should be able to bypass their state legislatures on election law in violation of their constitution?

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did they do that?? sounds pretty serious, we should get scotus to weigh in on it

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Sounds like you didn't read Paxton's lawsuit.

Pookers said:

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doubledog said:

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waitwhat? said:

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lethalninja said:

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Why do you consider Lincoln a top two contender for the worst?

---

Well the civil war and precedents set are pretty bad

---

Refresh my memory, did Lincoln fire on Fort Sumter?

---

No, he just baited the south into it and made the war all but inevitable. People should read in to the civil war more than what you're taught in middle school. Lincoln was a Hamiltonian big government statist who hated the constitution and hated criticism of his actions. He threw many a northern journalist into prison for having the gall to say the south should be able to secede (which was the prevailing thought by just about everybody at the time).

---

Wrong, the pro-slavery "fire-eaters" over reacted and started the civil war. Lincolns order for volunteers to form an army, did prod Virginia to join the CSA, but that was after the war had begun. Lincoln never stated nor did he believe (in 1861) that he or his administration sould abolish slavery. Even as late as Aug 1862 he stated in his letter to Horace Greely (to be published) "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that." That does not like seem to be someone who would abolish slavery in the South. Of course he changed his mind as the war progressed.

The suspension of habeas corpus, in 1861 was extreme, but the whole idea of fighting an internal and external war in the border states was extreme.

doubledog said:

---

Pookers said:

---

doubledog said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

lethalninja said:

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Why do you consider Lincoln a top two contender for the worst?

---

Well the civil war and precedents set are pretty bad

---

Refresh my memory, did Lincoln fire on Fort Sumter?

---

No, he just baited the south into it and made the war all but inevitable. People should read in to the civil war more than what you're taught in middle school. Lincoln was a Hamiltonian big government statist who hated the constitution and hated criticism of his actions. He threw many a northern journalist into prison for having the gall to say the south should be able to secede (which was the prevailing thought by just about everybody at the time).

---

Wrong, the pro-slavery "fire-eaters" over reacted and started the civil war. Lincolns order for volunteers to form an army, did prod Virginia to join the CSA, but that was after the war had begun. Lincoln never stated nor did he believe (in 1861) that he or his administration sould abolish slavery. Even as late as Aug 1862 he stated in his letter to Horace Greely (to be published) "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that." That does not like someone who would abolish slavery in the South. Of course he changed his mind as the war progressed.

The suspension of habeas corpus, in 1861 was extreme, but the whole idea of fighting an internal and external war in the border states was extreme.

---

Such a remarkably inaccurate post. Good to see people who believe the south will rise again are still lurking in the shadows shielded by anonymity.

CollegeStationNative said:

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doubledog said:

---

Pookers said:

---

doubledog said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

lethalninja said:

---

Why do you consider Lincoln a top two contender for the worst?

---

Well the civil war and precedents set are pretty bad

---

Refresh my memory, did Lincoln fire on Fort Sumter?

---

No, he just baited the south into it and made the war all but inevitable. People should read in to the civil war more than what you're taught in middle school. Lincoln was a Hamiltonian big government statist who hated the constitution and hated criticism of his actions. He threw many a northern journalist into prison for having the gall to say the south should be able to secede (which was the prevailing thought by just about everybody at the time).

---

Wrong, the pro-slavery "fire-eaters" over reacted and started the civil war. Lincolns order for volunteers to form an army, did prod Virginia to join the CSA, but that was after the war had begun. Lincoln never stated nor did he believe (in 1861) that he or his administration sould abolish slavery. Even as late as Aug 1862 he stated in his letter to Horace Greely (to be published) "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that." That does not like someone who would abolish slavery in the South. Of course he changed his mind as the war progressed.

The suspension of habeas corpus, in 1861 was extreme, but the whole idea of fighting an internal and external war in the border states was extreme.

---

Such a remarkably inaccurate post. Good to see people who believe the south will rise again are still lurking in the shadows shielded by anonymity.

---

Strong work sock. My point wasn't to state that the south was correct, just that Lincoln was a tyrant. The civil war was a mess with neither side being the good guy.

Carter

Pookers said:

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CollegeStationNative said:

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doubledog said:

---

Pookers said:

---

doubledog said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

lethalninja said:

---

Why do you consider Lincoln a top two contender for the worst?

---

Well the civil war and precedents set are pretty bad

---

Refresh my memory, did Lincoln fire on Fort Sumter?

---

No, he just baited the south into it and made the war all but inevitable. People should read in to the civil war more than what you're taught in middle school. Lincoln was a Hamiltonian big government statist who hated the constitution and hated criticism of his actions. He threw many a northern journalist into prison for having the gall to say the south should be able to secede (which was the prevailing thought by just about everybody at the time).

---

Wrong, the pro-slavery "fire-eaters" over reacted and started the civil war. Lincolns order for volunteers to form an army, did prod Virginia to join the CSA, but that was after the war had begun. Lincoln never stated nor did he believe (in 1861) that he or his administration sould abolish slavery. Even as late as Aug 1862 he stated in his letter to Horace Greely (to be published) "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that." That does not like someone who would abolish slavery in the South. Of course he changed his mind as the war progressed.

The suspension of habeas corpus, in 1861 was extreme, but the whole idea of fighting an internal and external war in the border states was extreme.

---

Such a remarkably inaccurate post. Good to see people who believe the south will rise again are still lurking in the shadows shielded by anonymity.

---

Strong work sock. My point wasn't to state that the south was correct, just that Lincoln was a tyrant. The civil war was a mess with neither side being the good guy.

---

None of what you said above validates your claim that Lincoln was a "tyrant" or that he was a "Hamiltonian big government statist who hated the Constitution '(haha) (Hamilton was very pro constitution). It just proves you might have an alterior motive to your claims such as the belief the South should have been allowed to secede and continue slavery. Lincoln did the right thing for all Americans. He shut down slavery and saved the Union.