I had a really cool conversation with a few people today about why Greenspoint and North Houston suck.

Back in 1970s an old ExxonMobil subsidiary (Friendswood Development company) wanted to copy the Houston Galleria area. The idea was a big mall and office buildings that attracts people. And it was closer to airport so they thought it had an advantage. This created development in North Houston with new middle class neighborhoods and luxury apartment homes.

Then oil crashed. Oil jobs lost. Lots of foreclosures and lots of vacant apartments. And then government came to the rescue. Used the vacant apartments as section 8 housing. City of Houston annexed Greenspoint but there was no police station or fire station built. Lots of theft occurred at Greenspoint mall. More people left and more homes became government housing. When Houston recovered in the 90s and 2000s, Development occurred in the suburbs, not in Greenspoint or Alief. Compounding the problems were Katrina refugees. Now all the illegals I presume. Also lots of flooding in Greenspoint.

A few takeaways for me, government housing brings down an area. You need police. Too many apartments in an area is risky. They are fancy now but 20-30 years from now they won't be. The developer won't care by then, he needs the dense housing to sell commercial lots and let somebody else worry about it 20-30 years from now.

The 80s were rough on Houston. If you look at population growth, Houston is growing super fast until 80s and doesn't pick up again mid-90s. I think there's a chance Greenspoint and Spring area can grow again. The Woodlands and Conroe are becoming jobs center and if you don't want to live there, your best option is the Heights. That commute sucks. Hopefully it brings more development along 45 because from 610 to the Woodlands, 45 is a disaster.

Re branded as Gunspoint a couple of decades ago.

I grew up in Conroe in the 80s. Greenspoint was a great mall and all my peer shopped there until the housing changed. All the thugs from the nearby apartments would steal and harass inside the mall and the parking lot. It became a craphole in only about half a decade. We would drive past it on our way to other malls.

Northline was the mall before Greenspoint, apartments kill everything. It's done that to Spring Westfield area

Ag4life80 said:

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Re branded as Gunspoint a couple of decades ago.

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It was already that in the late 80s

I remember when essentially the only meaningful thing between Conroe and Houston was the Goodyear blimp hangar in Spring, well before Greenspoint, other North Houston developments, and The Woodlands.

But I also remember when Greenspoint was new, shiny, and safe.

Greenspoint has been a ghetto for a long time now for reasons simpler than oil crashing in the 80's. It goes back to LBJ's Great Society in the 60's, dependency on welfare, destruction of the family unit, erosion of personal responsibility, expansion of gangs, and attraction to illegal activities for fame and fortune.

That trend will continue with the liberals' expanding agenda that removes any reliance on faith, morals, or personal responsibility. What was right is now wrong, and what was wrong is now right.

And if you want to avoid the mess on I-45, take the Hardy.

Once the riff-raff arrives in numbers, it goes downhill and will be that way forever.

This is why there was an Obama-era program that intended to equalize demographics and income by zip code. it was a program with a clever acronym name that i do not recall. The plan was to offer Section 8 vouchers at market rate by neighborhood to ensure that welfare recipients were equally spread around town.

BQ_90 said:

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Northline was the mall before Greenspoint, apartments kill everything. It's done that to Spring Westfield area

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Where do you want the apartment dwellers to live then?

2%er/New Army said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Northline was the mall before Greenspoint, apartments kill everything. It's done that to Spring Westfield area

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Where do you want the apartment dwellers to live then?

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I'm telling you what happened, I'm not housing director

The decline started with COH an annexing then not providing the police. Then metro bus routes come in and you get what you get

How many of you live in the Willowbrook area? Went to Matske elementary?

I have a patient who teaches at Matske. A few years ago she told me the district drove the teachers around the area to see where the students were drawn from. Matske draws from 4 government subsidized apartment complexes. Four!!! I couldn't believe it at first until I started to think about how many new apartments have been built and how much the area has changed.

Is that area far behind?

Edit: elementary not junior high. Not sure why I wrote that.

To make this very political, government needs more control in development. I've always heard Houston area led by Bob Lanier was a land developers dream because of how lax it was. Greenspoint and North Houston was overbuilt. Greenspoint development company wanted more dense housing to create more urban environment for young workers. When oil crashed and jobs lost, those vacant apartments brought the neighborhood down. Maybe some type of regulation to limit apartments based on ratio of single family homes. I dont knwo Playing Sim City as a kid is the extent of my city planning knowledge. The game warned me about crime with too much dense housing.

Another example is Montgomery County where there seems to be no planning. There are no North/South thoroughfares except 45. You can't get to Conroe from the Woodlands without 45. Developers created master planned communities which are technically private property and now no roads can be built. They are all like little enclaves with no connectivity. Traffic is awful there.

aggiedent said:

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How many of you live in the Willowbrook area? Went to Matske junior high?

I have a patient who teaches at Matske. A few years ago she told me the district drove the teachers around the area to see where the students were drawn from. Matske draws from 4 government subsidized apartment complexes. Four!!! I couldn't believe it at first until I started to think about how many new apartments have been built and how much the area has changed.

Is that area far behind?

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I went to Matzke Elementary in 71-72. From there we went to Dean Junior High for 1 year and then Bleyl Junior High when it opened.

Dan Scott said:

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To make this very political, government needs more control in development. I've always heard Houston area led by Bob Lanier was a land developers dream because of how lax it was. Greenspoint and North Houston was overbuilt. Greenspoint development company wanted more dense housing to create more urban environment for young workers. When oil crashed and jobs lost, those vacant apartments brought the neighborhood down. Maybe some type of regulation to limit apartments based on ratio of single family homes. I dont knwo Playing Sim City as a kid is the extent of my city planning knowledge. The game warned me about crime with too much dense housing.

Another example is Montgomery County where there seems to be no planning. There are no North/South thoroughfares except 45. You can't get to Conroe from the Woodlands without 45. Developers created master planned communities which are technically private property and now no roads can be built. They are all like little enclaves with no connectivity. Traffic is awful there.

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Yes.....the answer to the government ****ing everything up is.......


MORE GOVERNMENT!

Genius!

It's called "Gunspoint" for a reason, and it's because of democrat voters like yourself.

there is a significant terrain feature between Conroe and the Woodlands that is an impediment to north-south travel:

the San Jacinto River (and Lake Creek)

Well you know, Houston zoning is infamous.

am I allowed to say that the Heights is fool's gold?

way too expensive...and way too close to bad parts of town --- the criminals love having the Heights folks nearby

(and not to mention the traffic disaster looming with 11th, Shepherd, and Durham)

2%er/New Army said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Northline was the mall before Greenspoint, apartments kill everything. It's done that to Spring Westfield area

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Where do you want the apartment dwellers to live then?

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Anywhere... just not near my home.

My company leased a 6 story building right off the beltway and greenspoint drive. Our lease was up in 2016 and we moved to the Katy freeway. To this day it still sits empty.

The same situation basically happened in Alief ... lots of middle class housing, then lots of apartments with Metro bus routes along Beechnut and Bissonnet.

Then, the oil crash in the '80s.

The apartments quickly went downhill and the housing following afterward.

Alief had been the promised land for many young families in the '70s, with great schools and affordable housing. It only took a couple of decades for it all to come crashing down.

Quote:

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Maybe some type of regulation to limit apartments based on ratio of single family homes.

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There's certainly some anecdotal evidence of smaller complexes that did not drastically alter the nature of the neighborhoods they were built in or bring down their surroundings.

But when there is a sea of massive complexes, like the Greespoint area or parts of Southwest Houston, they're not going to foster stable populations or any sense of community.

PA24 said:

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Greenspoint~ Worked there in the 90s and then again for Exxon Development Co. about 10 years ago. Had not changed much, petty car break ins mostly. Mall sucked but some good small oriental restaurants in the area. Decent hotel.

I think EMDC moved to Woodlands a few years ago.
So probably really sucks now.


You are right.
Fdc sold to Lennar and global real estate and NOSS all went to the spring/woodlands hq.

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Dan Scott said:

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I had a really cool conversation with a few people today about why Greenspoint and North Houston suck.

Back in 1970s an old ExxonMobil subsidiary (Friendswood Development company) wanted to copy the Houston Galleria area. The idea was a big mall and office buildings that attracts people. And it was closer to airport so they thought it had an advantage. This created development in North Houston with new middle class neighborhoods and luxury apartment homes.

Then oil crashed. Oil jobs lost. Lots of foreclosures and lots of vacant apartments. And then government came to the rescue. Used the vacant apartments as section 8 housing. City of Houston annexed Greenspoint but there was no police station or fire station built. Lots of theft occurred at Greenspoint mall. More people left and more homes became government housing. When Houston recovered in the 90s and 2000s, Development occurred in the suburbs, not in Greenspoint or Alief. Compounding the problems were Katrina refugees. Now all the illegals I presume. Also lots of flooding in Greenspoint.

A few takeaways for me, government housing brings down an area. You need police. Too many apartments in an area is risky. They are fancy now but 20-30 years from now they won't be. The developer won't care by then, he needs the dense housing to sell commercial lots and let somebody else worry about it 20-30 years from now.

The 80s were rough on Houston. If you look at population growth, Houston is growing super fast until 80s and doesn't pick up again mid-90s. I think there's a chance Greenspoint and Spring area can grow again. The Woodlands and Conroe are becoming jobs center and if you don't want to live there, your best option is the Heights. That commute sucks. Hopefully it brings more development along 45 because from 610 to the Woodlands, 45 is a disaster.

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True…but in general, any area dominated by multi family housing is almost always going to go to crap within a decade. So many big ass apartment complexes it was always going to go to crap over time. Same with SW Houston/Westchase area of Houston. Kills the schools for starters.

torrid said:

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This is why there was an Obama-era program that intended to equalize demographics and income by zip code. it was a program with a clever acronym name that i do not recall. The plan was to offer Section 8 vouchers at market rate by neighborhood to ensure that welfare recipients were equally spread around town.

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I remember it now, "Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing". Basically homogenize racial and income demographics to match in every zip code in the nation via Section 8, even if it meant paying more to move welfare cases into nice neighborhoods. Turn the whole country into a slum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmatively_Furthering_Fair_Housing

Same thing will happen to Fort Bend County eventually. Violent crime is up big time in Fort Bend County. Property crimes like catalytic converter theft is also rampant. Suburban South Asians who are voting 90 percent Democrat will sadly learn the hard way that voting for a party that hates private property, hates police, and supports violent criminals through PR bonds and cashless bail is going to lead to the downfall of your community. 40 years from now you will see: "What happened to Fort Bend County?" posts on here.

As someone who grew up in north Houston I can't overstate what jewel Greenspoint was in the late 70's. I don't think it even had 10 good years though. When the area crashed it crashed fast and hard. Truly depressing.

Been playing around Google Earth tonight looking at the site and it's shame. So much potential for that area.

Greenspoint can and should have been the equivalent of Las Colinas in Dallas area. Close to the big airport, easy freeway access, and 20 minutes from Downtown. Montgomery County population forecasted to grow 50% to over 1M people by 2040. Maybe after I-45 expansion finishes it sees more redevelopment. ITL is expensive and young people don't want to live in Woodlands or Conroe. Woodlands is also old, crowded, and expensive. Greenspoint is perfect for those working downtown or woodlands.

You heard it here first, Greenspoint will be prime real estate in 2040. Maybe after Greens Bayou floods those crappy apartments again that's the excuse to bulldoze them and start again.

Gunspoint was scary bad before Katrina.

BQ_90 said:

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I'm telling you what happened, I'm not housing director

The decline started with COH an annexing then not providing the police. Then metro bus routes come in and you get what you get

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One thing that became obvious during the Covid scam is that the government should not be operating any public transportation buses.

I live close to a bus stop and have seen 2+ years of riderless buses.

Busing adults, is really just a way to allow employers to get the government to subsidize their cost of operations. Those employers should have to pay workers high enough wages that they can live locally.

Now if a private business wants to run a bus like you see with Google in San Francisco, good for them. Or a van that brings my Vietnamese nail techs in from 30+ miles away, OK. But the government shouldn't be in that business.

EDIT: I've also observed public buses being used to move homeless people around to new hunting grounds / shopping areas.

Dan Scott said:

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I dont knwo Playing Sim City as a kid is the extent of my city planning knowledge. The game warned me about crime with too much dense housing.

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Loved that game on a PC circa 1992.

Did they ever include Diversity options in Sim City?

I do remember that your residents would leave if you increased the tax rate above 7% yet here we are in the real world paying about 50% in California.

zephyr88 said:

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2%er/New Army said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Northline was the mall before Greenspoint, apartments kill everything. It's done that to Spring Westfield area

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Where do you want the apartment dwellers to live then?

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Anywhere... just not near my home.

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The 99% White High School I went to (even the Mexicans were White, Latinx was still 3 decades away) in Waco (Midway) sucked at Football until they built some apartments near the HS.

Some diversity moved in and voila. Winning Football - all that really matters in small town Texas.

TheCurl84 said:

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Well you know, Houston zoning is infamous.

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Let me know if you know of an area with nice homes and a Gentlemen's Club within walking distance. I'm looking to move to HTX.