Get Off My Lawn said:

---

You can get to vaccination requirements in a round-about way, but yes, I fully expect a CYA clause. My point is simply that the understood landscape of service was changed unilaterally, and as Americans we wouldn't accept "well, you signed so you gave up your right to bodily autonomy" in any other domain.

Grandfather Clauses are commonplace in the military for the reason that servicemen still have rights and others don't get to change their terms mid-flight.

---

Unilateral: (of an action or decision) performed by or affecting only one person, group, or country involved in a particular situation, without the agreement of another or the others.

While the decision to add the covid vaccine can be seen as a unilateral decision this is, in many ways, simply how a military organization has to operate. Soldiers, enlisted and officers alike, more often than not have zero say in what they do and how they do it. Decisions, by the nature of the military, is forced upon them. Soldiers don't get a vote.

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

PanzerAggie06 said:

---

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

You can get to vaccination requirements in a round-about way, but yes, I fully expect a CYA clause. My point is simply that the understood landscape of service was changed unilaterally, and as Americans we wouldn't accept "well, you signed so you gave up your right to bodily autonomy" in any other domain.

Grandfather Clauses are commonplace in the military for the reason that servicemen still have rights and others don't get to change their terms mid-flight.

---

Unilateral: (of an action or decision) performed by or affecting only one person, group, or country involved in a particular situation, without the agreement of another or the others.

While the decision to add the covid vaccine can be seen as a unilateral decision this is, in many ways, simply how a military organization has to operate. Soldiers, enlisted and officers alike, more often than not have zero say in what they do and how they do it. Decisions, by the nature of the military, is forced upon them. Soldiers don't get a vote.

---

I assume there's SOME limit / threshold to your theory of blind obedience? Where is the line according to Panzer? Mandated sterilization? Tattoos? Sexual exploitation?

You're criticizing others for drawing a line in the sand. Draw yours and show us why it's better.

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, go visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to. (i.e. be a guinea pig for a fake non studied vaccine)

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, for visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to.

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

Who gets to decide which orders are ignored and which orders are followed?

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, for visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to.

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

Do you realize how many soldiers think they are given "horrible orders" every day?

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, for visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to.

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

Do you realize how many soldiers think they are given "horrible orders" every day?

---

Orders forcing you to inject yourself with poison fall under 'horrible orders'.

Who decides what is "poison"?

BigRobSA said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Who decides what is "poison"?

---

Evidently, a metric ****ton of peoples' bodies.

All over a weakass virus. Even moreso for the age ranges of active duty personnel.

---

But who? What agency? What position? That directive has to come from the top then it's followed. So who makes that call?

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, for visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to.

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

Do you realize how many soldiers think they are given "horrible orders" every day?

---

I truly hope you aren't in charge of anything or anyone (even a household). You are still defending this crap. I just don't get you.

The point sailed over your head

Teslag said:

---

The point sailed over your head

---

Yeah because you're so much smarter than everybody.

This has nothing to do with being "smart". It's simple reality. As panzer eloquently pointed out, you can't have soldiers dictating what they will or won't do. I'm simply asking who makes that call.

I see you've set your deflector shields to maximum

Teslag said:

---

I see you've set your deflector shields to maximum

---

Not really. I probably just say what's on my mind too much. You just put out bad info and it put a burr under a lot of saddles.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, for visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to.

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

Do you realize how many soldiers think they are given "horrible orders" every day?

---

Orders forcing you to inject yourself with poison fall under 'horrible orders'.

---

It's really sick how you keep pushing this evil on people, especially on those serving our country.

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, for visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to.

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

Do you realize how many soldiers think they are given "horrible orders" every day?

---

I truly hope you aren't in charge of anything or anyone (even a household). You are still defending this crap. I just don't get you.

---

What he is defending is good order and discipline in the ranks. Which is sorta important. When we have Soldiers with the mindset of, " I'll do what I want when I want" I can assure you that discipline is impacted in a negative way. This whole discussion is being driven by vax hysteria instead of people realizing that there has to be limits to people's personal wants and desires while serving in uniform.

PanzerAggie06 said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

jeremy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Senators also rejected a Republican proposal by Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin to reinstate and provide back pay to service members who were dismissed by the military for refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine.

---

Good deal. Failure to follow lawful orders should never be rewarded. It is the foundation of who we are in the military.

---

Yeah, you can go royally shove it. Rebellion against stupidity is what formed this country.

---

So our military order and discipline should be defined by "I don't wanna!"?

---

Strawman. Our military should be defined to "f-that!" to horrible orders. If you want robots, for visit Nazi history. I want thinkers who can kick ass and still play soccer with village children. Not morons who put their self in actual harms way because some idiot bureaucrat told them to.

I expect nothing less from you and your line of logic.

---

Do you realize how many soldiers think they are given "horrible orders" every day?

---

I truly hope you aren't in charge of anything or anyone (even a household). You are still defending this crap. I just don't get you.

---

What he is defending is good order and discipline in the ranks. Which is sorta important. When we have Soldiers with the mindset of, " I'll do what I want when I want" I can assure you that discipline is impacted in a negative way. This whole discussion is being driven by vax hysteria instead of people realizing that there has to be limits to people's personal wants and desires while serving in uniform.

---

When people at the top push politics and money over the people they lead, their orders need to be ignored. Anyone that continues to force this poison on people should be hung.

I see you're sticking to cheap criticism and avoiding having to articulate a standard / principle for limits to blind obediences.

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

I see you're sticking to cheap criticism and avoiding having to articulate a standard / principle for limits to blind obediences.

---

There are limits but they need to be clearly defined. We know that forcing a soldier to get a tetanus vaccine is okay. We know that ordering them to shoot a village full of children is not. So we need to decide what that cutoff is, who decides it, and what are the clear definitions. It simply can't be "cuz I don't wanna".

Teslag said:

---

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

I see you're sticking to cheap criticism and avoiding having to articulate a standard / principle for limits to blind obediences.

---

There are limits but they need to be clearly defined. We know that forcing a soldier to get a tetanus vaccine is okay. We know that ordering them to shoot a village full of children is not. So we need to decide what that cutoff is, who decides it, and what are the clear definitions. It simply can't be "cuz I don't wanna".

---

What were the kids wearing at the time? </Chappelle voice>





The CinC should be smart enough to realize, like I did from the beginning, that the WAV was just that, a WeakAss Virus, and that healthy young men and women (unironically, active duty ages) were in zero danger from it.

Unfortunately, we had Trump and now Biden , and that criteria was missing.

There's no F-ing way Teslag served. I've never heard anyone wearing a uniform spout that kind of BS. Except Woke Generals.

Since when is "get the jab" a lawful order? It's an untested cocktail known to cause myocarditis in healthy young adults. Its Ok to disobey "Shoot those kids", but not "kill yourself for no reason?" BS. I had the ethics classes on My Lai, watched the training films, wrote an essay. If a CO says "Step on that mine soldier" you don't have to.

i-miss-the-republic said:

---

There's no F-ing way Teslag served. I've never heard anyone wearing a uniform spout that kind of BS. Except Woke Generals.

---

The FBI isnt the only infected institution

The problem is larger than anyone realizes

Those infected individuals believe in the cause above all else

pacecar02 said:

---

i-miss-the-republic said:

---

There's no F-ing way Teslag served. I've never heard anyone wearing a uniform spout that kind of BS. Except Woke Generals.

---

The FBI isnt the only infected institution

The problem is larger than anyone realizes

Those infected individuals believe in the cause above all else

---

Yep, they've been brainwashed. At least now I know part of the problem.

Such arrogance. But expected.

Rockdoc said:

---

Such arrogance. But expected.

---

Pointing out weak arguments is not arrogant. It's simply easy pickings. Lot of that here.

PanzerAggie06 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Such arrogance. But expected.

---

Pointing out weak arguments is not arrogant. It's simply easy pickings. Lot of that here.

---

I guess your opinion is worth something to you. That's about it.

Rockdoc said:

---

PanzerAggie06 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Such arrogance. But expected.

---

Pointing out weak arguments is not arrogant. It's simply easy pickings. Lot of that here.

---

I guess your opinion is worth something to you. That's about it.

---

Well, everyone views their own opinions as worth something. Thanks for being a master of the obvious.

Thanks for revealing your story. Makes it easier to ignore.

i-miss-the-republic said:

---

There's no F-ing way Teslag served. I've never heard anyone wearing a uniform spout that kind of BS. Except Woke Generals.

Since when is "get the jab" a lawful order? It's an untested cocktail known to cause myocarditis in healthy young adults. Its Ok to disobey "Shoot those kids", but not "kill yourself for no reason?" BS. I had the ethics classes on My Lai, watched the training films, wrote an essay. If a CO says "Step on that mine soldier" you don't have to.

---

It became lawful when it gained full approval. The military has mandated vaccines for decades. We don't get to decide which ones are valid and which ones aren't. That is above our pay grade.