aggiehawg said:

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Thanks for that clarification. DNA discussions often result in my eyes getting crossed, it is such dry reading.

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You didn't happen to be on the OJ jury, did you?

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The defense is arguing that the state needed a warrant to develop the DNA profile found at the scene.

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Well, that's BS. It was at the murder scene.

I'm really not sure what she's getting at in the argument at all. She thinks there should have been a warrant when the DNA sample was sent to the state lab and then another warrant when it was sent to the FBI.

They apparently also searched the Kohberger trash in Pennsylvania without a warrant.

The judge barred media and cameras from the evidentiary part of this hearing but he is making the argument portion public.

AtticusMatlock said:

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I'm really not sure what she's getting at in the argument at all. She thinks there should have been a warrant when the DNA sample was sent to the state lab and then another warrant when it was sent to the FBI.

They apparently also searched the Kohberger trash in Pennsylvania without a warrant.

The judge barred media and cameras from the evidentiary part of this hearing but he is making the argument portion public.

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Aahh, my favorite word, curtilage. Outside of that, don't need a search warrant.

yeah everyone knows you dont need a search warrant to search trash. goodness

So apparently it's now been confirmed today during the evidentiary hearing that the FBI violated their own policy and the terms of service of two different DNA databases during this investigation.

Even if that's the case, the judge doesn't seem to be buying that defendant has much of an argument here because he was not a user of any of those sites. It's not his privacy that would have been violated. State arguing no one who uses those particular sites would have a reasonable expectation of privacy given they uploaded their DNA there.

HoustonAg9999 said:

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yeah everyone knows you dont need a search warrant to search trash. goodness

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Well, depends on where the trash cans are located at the time. In the garage? Need the warrant. To the side of the house in the yard? Need a search warrant.

At the end of the drive, off the curb in street for pick-up as garbage? Then it is off of the curtilage of the property and no warrant is needed.

aggiehawg said:

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HoustonAg9999 said:

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yeah everyone knows you dont need a search warrant to search trash. goodness

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Well, depends on where the trash cans are located at the time. In the garage? Need the warrant. To the side of the house in the yard? Need a search warrant.

At the end of the drive, off the curb in street for pick-up as garbage? Then it is off of the curtilage of the property and no warrant is needed.

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assuming its out on the curb

I'm behind but they haven't gotten to that portion of the argument yet for me.

https://www.youtube.com/live/nimoYqs4CwM?si=MqRI1OJGpJXpxI7p

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assuming its out on the curb

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That is my recollection of the police report from PA law enforcement. It was placed out on the street for pick-up the next morning. They took it during the night from that location. They had the house under surveillance for a few days. Also saw BK cleaning and detailing his car in the driveway during the day at one point.

BK's original attorney in PA was a chatty guy, as well. Too chatty for a defense attorney, in my view. He did BK no favors with his press interviews before BK was extradited back to Idaho.

New info:

Trash was collected by the trash company. Handed over to the FBI in a prearranged agreement. Confirmed in argument by the state. Cans were on the end of the driveway by the curb.

They picked up, FBI watched and followed, collected trash from truck.

AtticusMatlock said:

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New info:

Trash was collected by the trash company. Handed over to the FBI in a prearranged agreement. Confirmed in argument by the state. Cans were on the end of the driveway by the curb.

They picked up, FBI watched and followed, collected trash from truck.

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That is new. Assuming that is true, no search warrant required. The trash was abandoned at that point with no proprietary interest remaining.

Yeah, they remove any grey area when they let the garbage man actually pick it up first. Wise move

Have been listening for about the last 30 minutes. Defense counsel Taylor's arguments here are very weak.

Given what I know about how folks in Idaho feel about this case, I think it is highly unlikely any judge up there is going to spring this guy on a technicality. They may get overturned on appeal, but I don't think any judge up there wants to be the one that lefts him off without a trial.

Defense: Unknown male DNA blood found on stair handrail.

Another unknown male blood found on glove outside the house.

I'm a bit behind but defense is arguing for a Franks hearing and saying the affidavit for the search warrant of Kohberger, his car and everything after were tainted by false information. Judge is not buying it. In arguing it, she's letting out snippets of information that have not yet been made public. She's saying the magistrate should have been informed of some of the other evidence that pointed to other suspects, including other blood found at the scene, the cell phone data showing the Elantra moving the opposite direction than the FBI stated and the eyewitness in the house who is now suffering from memory problems and has apparently changed her story a few different times.

The judge is saying that none of that matters because of the direct DNA link that establishes probable cause and even if other things were inaccurate it would have never changed the fact there was probable cause for the searches.

There is a lot that has been kept off of the public docket so it is hard to follow.

But defense counsel argument that touch DNA on a button on a knife sheath, found at the murder scene...under one of the repeatedly stabbed bodies is not important? Because there is some other male DNA found in a college house with multiple girl residents famous for being a party house?

This is for a search warrant, all that is required is probable cause for issuance of the warrant. Knife sheath with DNA at a multiple murder scene where all of the victims were stabbed to death? And that is not probable cause?

Give me a freakin' break!

ETA: But this state prosecutor is messing up the reason for this hearing, whether to have another hearing. No new stuff, keep it where it is. Yes defense counsel was way out there and there is much more other evidence has been subsequently discovered to refute the defense but that is not the subject of this particular hearing.

aggiehawg said:

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There is a lot that has been kept off of the public docket so it is hard to follow.

But defense counsel argument that touch DNA on a button on a knife sheath, found at the murder scene...under one of the repeatedly stabbed bodies is not important? Because there is some other male DNA found in a college house with multiple girl residents famous for being a party house?

This is for a search warrant, all that is required is probable cause for issuance of the warrant. Knife sheath with DNA at a multiple murder scene where all of the victims were stabbed to death? And that is not probable cause?

Give me a freakin' break!

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Exactly. It would be far more shocking if there was not other male DNA found in the house. But as you say, the location and circumstances make some of it much more of interest than others.

Defense is trying to argue against a genealogy search? Yeah, they don't have a prayer. Precedent for that is very, very long.

Arguing against developing DNA profiles off of trash or other discarded materials, regardless of who they might point to or what investigative leads they can lead to, is nearly equally as hilarious.

Tergdor said:

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Defense is trying to argue against a genealogy search? Yeah, they don't have a prayer. Precedent for that is very, very long.

Arguing against developing DNA profiles off of trash or other discarded materials, regardless of who they might point to or what investigative leads they can lead to, is nearly equally as hilarious.

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I understand this is a DP case and defense counsel are all certified as DP defense attorneys from the Public Defender's Office but some on!

Further, Idaho has particular rules about entering alibi defenses, time limits in which to file and there actually has to be some evidence of the defendant being elsewhere. Best this defense could do with a year delay after the time limit expired was that BK was a stargazer who went out very late at night, turned off his phone, and drove around looking at stars and Moscow, Idaho was the best place to stargaze? And he was always alone? With his phone off?

Umm, not an alibi since even after over a year, no one could corroborate seeing him doing this, much less the night of the murders. Plea him out for life without parole! But BK thinks he's a crim justice major and did not enough to beat these charges, so he refuses.

Idaho just adopted the firing squad as their death penalty method.

Also, Judge Judge (yes his name) is no longer on this case. And today was this new judge's first hearing. I like the judge so far. When the lawyers kind of veer off course, he brings them back on point.

Either way, this trial is going to be a crap show. A long one. Not sure the prosecution is truly up to this task. Hard case not because of the facts but because defense counsel has decided to go all out, meaning true believers that no one should get the DP. From what I saw and heard today, this may be a lawyer version of Darrell Brooks type trial. Why would an anti-DP wish to cause a mistrial deliberately? Because they can.

Prosecution needs to bring their A game and be precise, succinct and argue directly to the jury. Voir dire should be wild but probably not televised in real time.

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Exactly. It would be far more shocking if there was not other male DNA found in the house. But as you say, the location and circumstances make some of it much more of interest than others.

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I am just surprised we did not hear about male DNA showing secretors or non-secretors from semen.

It's my understanding that at least one if not more of the families are adamantly against any plea deal and one has not been offered.

Of course there's no way we would ever know this as general members of the public, but pure speculation.

I know the families have been very hard on the police and the prosecutors to get this to trial.

Also no reason to accept a plea until after the judge makes his decisions on these motions. If they can get 80% of the evidence thrown out then that changes everything.

It's my understanding is that one is Xana's mother who has been in and out of jail for drug charges.

The DNA genealogy isn't what identified BK as a suspect, but instead confirmed him as the murderer.

The video cameras from the neighborhood & surrounding areas identified the white Elantra. BK's car registration tied him to that type of vehicle, and cameras in Pullman showed his vehicle going & coming at times that aligned with the murders. That led to the phone records and search of his Pullman apartment, which led them to PA and the DNA collection.

EDB just started.

I'm sorry, but Bill Thompson is downright creepy.

aggiehawg said:

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Exactly. It would be far more shocking if there was not other male DNA found in the house. But as you say, the location and circumstances make some of it much more of interest than others.

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I am just surprised we did not hear about male DNA showing secretors or non-secretors from semen.

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AtticusMatlock said:

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New info:

Trash was collected by the trash company. Handed over to the FBI in a prearranged agreement. Confirmed in argument by the state. Cans were on the end of the driveway by the curb.

They picked up, FBI watched and followed, collected trash from truck.

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And it was important that it was done that way in this case because BK's dad's house was in a gated neighborhood and the streets were not public.

TheRatt87 said:

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The DNA genealogy isn't what identified BK as a suspect, but instead confirmed him as the murderer.

The video cameras from the neighborhood & surrounding areas identified the white Elantra. BK's car registration tied him to that type of vehicle, and cameras in Pullman showed his vehicle going & coming at times that aligned with the murders. That led to the phone records and search of his Pullman apartment, which led them to PA and the DNA collection.

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The searches of his apartment in Pullman was after he was arrested.

When the Moscow PD put out the BOLO for the White Elantra, WSU PD pulled all car parking permits by vehicle and found Kohberger's listed. He pulled up Kohberger's student ID and saw the match in descriptions. Another Wazzu PD officer went to Kohberger's apartment and put eyes on the actual car. All that was relayed to the Moscow PD before December even rolled around.

I think the FBI IGG results hit around the 19th or 21st of December.

Trucker 96 said:

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Their angle is that they never would have checked any of it in the first place or would even know to check him now without the online genetic search, so no, if the online aspect gets tossed, I think they'll be SOL on DNA overall

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Like you said in your other post, I agree it will not get thrown out. From the judge's comments, Kohberger had no right to privacy on the sheath and his DNA wasn't in the MyHeritage system.

But even if this judge was against IGG searches, I think the state would bring up inevitable discovery.

Before the IGG stuff was done, the Washington State University Police found that Kohberger matched the suspect description and that he had a car with a Wazzu Parking Pass that matched the White Elantra on the BOLO. They went to his apartment and put eyes on the Elantra and called it in.

He was probably one of hundreds or thousands of suspects at that point, but they had him like 10-12 days after the murder and before the IGG stuff was done, which didn't come back for 3-4 more weeks.

So inevitable discovery would apply because they had him as a suspect prior to the IGG searches being done by the FBI. The IGG searches just let them eliminate all the other white elantra owners much quicker than it would have taken otherwise.

So I think the inevitable discovery claim would stand up even if the IGG stuff was tossed. But it doesn't sound like this judge is remotely close to tossing it.

Bryan Kohberger case: Idaho judge to unseal transcript of closed-door hearing

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The Idaho judge overseeing the case against student murders suspect Bryan Kohberger has announced that he will release a redacted transcript from a closed-door hearing held last week, which he had initially barred the public and the media from attending.

Ada County Judge Steven Hippler told court officials to hand over verbatim copies of the unredacted transcript from the sealed hearing on Jan. 23 to both the prosection and the defense so they could recommend redactions.

"The parties will have fourteen (14) days to identify those portions of the transcript that should be redacted from public disclosure, providing a basis for the same," he wrote in an order made public Tuesday. "Thereafter, the Court will release to the public a redacted transcript of the previously closed portion of the hearing."

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