Aggrad08 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Florida won big because of what I'm saying the republicans don't have, good messages and a popular leader. Ron desantis wasn't newly popular he actually started that back in Covid by being the anti lockdown and mask guy. He's the swing factor not unevidenced cheating by only one party.

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Florida won big also because they have emphasized election integrity and have the systems in place to protect that.

Maricopa County does not have such safeguards and their election was a complte mess, again.

Guess you dispute that too?

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There is literally no evidence for your first claim. It's a hypothesis that can be tested multiple ways and performs poorly in all of them.

Maricopa county is a Slow mess and there is a lot that goes into that. It is also probably the most closely scrutinized county in the US and the last possible place Democrats would actually try something underhanded this election. A mess=\= fraud. Slow =\= fraud.

You'd actually have to be incredibly clever to manage to sneak by significant fraud in maricopa in 2022. I don't think the democrats have anyone gifted enough to pull that off. What mechanism for cheating do you propose is being done that is slipping past virtually every republican in Arizona?

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Hundreds of thousands of mail in ballots? Where do those come from? Are we absolutely positive they're legit? No, we're not. There's only 1 way to ensure election integrity. And that's voting in person with a valid ID.

20 Zuck bucks gone, 22 FTX bankrupt. Cost money to steal elections. Need to eliminate the next funding vehicle.

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Hundreds of thousands of mail in ballots? Where do those come from? Are we absolutely positive they're legit? No, we're not. There's only 1 way to ensure election integrity. And that's voting in person with a valid ID.

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The other huge problem in Maricopa County is there is no chain of custody. It is bad enough to trust the US Postal Service with ballots but no, Maricopa County allows their ballots to disappear into the warehouse of a private entity with zero observers for 10-12 days after an election.

aggiehawg said:

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Disagree. Look at Florida.

Florida has strict voter ID, strict laws with severe punishment for voter fraud, no universal mail in balloting, no ballot drop boxes, no counting for days afterwards, no ballot harvesting. What happened?

A red tsunami.

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Classic correlation does not equal causation. I think the results in Florida were more likely driven by good candidates than voter ID requirements

Please tell me you have more than what if. How do you suppose the mail in ballots are being successfully faked at a scale that turns election results in the most scrutinized county in the country

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Classic correlation does not equal causation. I think the results in Florida were more likely driven by good candidates than voter ID requirements

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Miami-Dade went red.

Crappy candidate narrative is just that, a story started by McConnell to justify his pulling assistance from GOP candidates based solely on his feud with Trump.

Aggrad08 said:

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Please tell me you have more than what if. How do you suppose the mail in ballots are being successfully faked at a scale that turns election results in the most scrutinized county in the country

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Chain of custody. If you can't see that mail in ballots, ballot drop boxes and that it's not necessary to show an ID to vote isn't a problem, there is nothing I can say that will convince you the entire process is set up to be abused.

Election integrity is an oxymoron.

Doesn't that make my point though? If a county goes red after voting blue for decades (that is, since long before the alleged mass ballot printing began), then it's not because of far more recent changes in voting requirements. It's because the candidate was unusually good.

RoadkillBBQ said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Please tell me you have more than what if. How do you suppose the mail in ballots are being successfully faked at a scale that turns election results in the most scrutinized county in the country

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Chain of custody. If you can't see that mail in ballots, ballot drop boxes and that it's not necessary to show an ID to vote isn't a problem, there is nothing I can say that will convince you the entire process is set up to be abused.

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Why are some types of "evidence" admissible or not in a court of law? Chain of custody and foundation.

In the absence of being able to show the origin of and transmission of a particular piece of evidence, it is inadmissible because it is not credible and cannot be verified.

When the Supervisor of Elections in Maricopa County says he has no idea the origins of the ballots being counted, that is a huge red flag that they may not be legitimate ballots cast by real voters.

Ken Blackwell was the liasion for the Cyber Ninjas audit in 2021. He's also a former Sec of State in AZ.

Here's his testimony about the importance of chain of custody under state law for all ballots. Used, unused, spoiled, duplicated, etc.

Maricopa County NEVER provided chain of custody required by law

"That should be created when the ballots are delivered to the county by their vendors than are processed in the election through the election...We never received that chain of custody."pic.twitter.com/Asyvc7s6vP

— Liz Harrington (@realLizUSA) October 7, 2021

sharpdressedman said:

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Election integrity is an oxymoron.

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Very true, but not for the reason most would think that.

It is true because people just don't care about doing the hard work to make it secure and give everyone who has a mind confidence in the election.

Instead, all they want is some stupid bandaids. We need to fix problems, not just patch them up here and there. That takes hard work and isn't something that will get one in a year or two. Six to eight years, maybe, but only with a lot of hard work.

IMO, the Establishment has to lock the candidates in 50/50 states.

You can't have election-deniers, Trumpists, hard core extremists nominated in places like PA, AZ, and NV.

The penalty for Trump adjacent candidates was extreme this year.

Sid Farkas said:

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All conservative pundits were calling for a red wave, so there's that.

Two reasons it didn't happen:
1. Trump candidates
2. Underestimation of the pro-abortion vote.

The elections were still close...Sorry op.

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Do you think COVID had an impact? It's never popular to think COVID actually killed people, but if you were to believe it was deadly to the over 65 demo, which is a R stronghold, then it is possible that this demo was over sampled in polling.

tremble said:

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IMO, the Establishment has to lock the candidates in 50/50 states.

You can't have election-deniers, Trumpists, hard core extremists nominated in places like PA, AZ, and NV.

The penalty for Trump adjacent candidates was extreme this year.

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But the GOPe is not that good at recruiting candidates either. If they were, they would have beaten the "lousy" Trump candidates, right? They had the funding. Same people bashing Trump for not spending enough, refused to spend on behalf of "their" candidates in the primaries.

There is a vast funding difference between Dem and GOP candidates. Part of that is by design of the GOPe.

RoadkillBBQ said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Please tell me you have more than what if. How do you suppose the mail in ballots are being successfully faked at a scale that turns election results in the most scrutinized county in the country

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Chain of custody. If you can't see that mail in ballots, ballot drop boxes and that it's not necessary to show an ID to vote isn't a problem, there is nothing I can say that will convince you the entire process is set up to be abused.

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https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2022/11/07/maricopa-county-2022-midterms-ballot-tracking

https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/68971/Final-Technical-Response-Letter-with-Exhibits-5172021

https://www.azmirror.com/2022/11/08/maricopa-county-sees-widespread-problems-with-ballot-tabulators-on-election-day-but-votes-will-still-be-counted/

Here is a description of the chain of custody procedure for maricopa county. As well as other reports with regard to this election.Tell me where the huge liability is and where it has been exploited.

This is just wholesale making stuff up and it always was.

The ONLY reason for widespread republican belief in systemic voter fraud is Donald trump couldn't accept he lost the popular vote to Hillary and has been ringing that bell ever since despite his own staff telling him it's nonsense.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Doesn't that make my point though? If a county goes red after voting blue for decades (that is, since long before the alleged mass ballot printing began), then it's not because of far more recent changes in voting requirements. It's because the candidate was unusually good.

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if Ron was awesome shouldn't it stand that he'd have won by a wider margin in '18? (.4%)


Also taking your same logic, is Katie Hobbs awesome by some stretch of the imagination?'

Sid Farkas said:

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All conservative pundits were calling for a red wave, so there's that.

Two reasons it didn't happen:
1. Trump candidates
2. Underestimation of the pro-abortion vote.

The elections were still close...Sorry op.

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Agree with those. One more: the Dems did a better job of getting out the vote than R's did. Partly because of the first two reasons, but also because they're just better at it. There were lots of reasons for R's to turn out -- and they did -- but the Dem's outperformed.

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This is just wholesale making stuff up and it always was.

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Then produce the chain of custody records. Now.

They refused in 2020. You say they have them. Link to them.

Now.

Sid Farkas said:

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All conservative pundits were calling for a red wave, so there's that.

Two reasons it didn't happen:
1. Trump candidates
2. Underestimation of the pro-abortion vote.

The elections were still close...Sorry op.

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Spot on.

aggiehawg said:

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This is just wholesale making stuff up and it always was.

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Then produce the chain of custody records. Now.

They refused in 2020. You say they have them. Link to them.

Now.

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https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/75204/Recorder-BOS-AG-Response-with-Exhibits-5-3-22

Might want to read through that. You've got no evidence of fraud and even your claims about maricopa are pretty weak. Republicans are underperforming because of republicans not because it's super easy to cheat and republicans magically became too moral to pursue that avenue.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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All conservative pundits were calling for a red wave, so there's that.

Two reasons it didn't happen:
1. Trump candidates
2. Underestimation of the pro-abortion vote.

The elections were still close...Sorry op.

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Agree with those. One more: the Dems did a better job of getting out the vote than R's did. Partly because of the first two reasons, but also because they're just better at it. There were lots of reasons for R's to turn out -- and they did -- but the Dem's outperformed.

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Not hard to outperform when your state has mail in ballots. Organizers go door to door and pay people to turn over their ballots.

Philip J Fry said:

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It was fabricated by the media so that they could proclaim that losing the house was a major victory for the democrats and a major defeat for Trump. Some of you need to take a step back and recognize how manipulative the media and the socialists are. This was their play all along. We've ousted Pelosi from her gavel and have control over the federal budget. This is not a small thing.

Yea, I believe the cheating is still rampant. No, I don't believe not winning the senate had anything to do with Trump's candidates. Not when you look at Fetterrmen and his hoodie. One thing g democrats do well is circle the wagons to protect their own. Instead of wagons, republicans circle their own with firing squads. This is no different.

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Every midterm has resulted in pretty big losses for the controlling party for several decades, except this year. A year when gas prices and inflation are crushing the average family and the sitting president is as unpopular as you can get.

Remember 2018. Economy roaring, stock market going higher, unemployment at all time lows, America First …. GOP got crushed.

Aggrad08 said:

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Please tell me you have more than what if. How do you suppose the mail in ballots are being successfully faked at a scale that turns election results in the most scrutinized county in the country

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EDIT: see you posted some links but I've not been able to read them yet.

Aggrad08 said:

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Please tell me you have more than what if. How do you suppose the mail in ballots are being successfully faked at a scale that turns election results in the most scrutinized county in the country

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They don't know. It's hysterical they think Democrats are the most inept group of people in country, but at the same time are capable of pulling off a fraud of a significant magnitude to steal multiple elections without a trace. Belief is a crazy thing.

TXAGFAN said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Please tell me you have more than what if. How do you suppose the mail in ballots are being successfully faked at a scale that turns election results in the most scrutinized county in the country

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They don't know. It's hysterical they think Democrats are the most inept group of people in country, but at the same time are capable of pulling off a fraud of a significant magnitude to steal multiple elections without a trace. Belief is a crazy thing.

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No one is saying they're inept, just corrupt no moral slugs who don't care about America but do ca4e about killing babies.

TAMU1990 said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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All conservative pundits were calling for a red wave, so there's that.

Two reasons it didn't happen:
1. Trump candidates
2. Underestimation of the pro-abortion vote.

The elections were still close...Sorry op.

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Agree with those. One more: the Dems did a better job of getting out the vote than R's did. Partly because of the first two reasons, but also because they're just better at it. There were lots of reasons for R's to turn out -- and they did -- but the Dem's outperformed.

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Not hard to outperform when your state has mail in ballots. Organizers go door to door and pay people to turn over their ballots.

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If it's that easy and so well known, I'm sure there is some clear and convincing evidence of this. Go ahead and post it, I'd love to see it.

agracer said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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It was fabricated by the media so that they could proclaim that losing the house was a major victory for the democrats and a major defeat for Trump. Some of you need to take a step back and recognize how manipulative the media and the socialists are. This was their play all along. We've ousted Pelosi from her gavel and have control over the federal budget. This is not a small thing.

Yea, I believe the cheating is still rampant. No, I don't believe not winning the senate had anything to do with Trump's candidates. Not when you look at Fetterrmen and his hoodie. One thing g democrats do well is circle the wagons to protect their own. Instead of wagons, republicans circle their own with firing squads. This is no different.

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Every midterm has resulted in pretty big losses for the controlling party for several decades, except this year. A year when gas prices and inflation are crushing the average family and the sitting president is as unpopular as you can get.

Remember 2018. Economy roaring, stock market going higher, unemployment at all time lows, America First …. GOP got crushed.

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Your own post says why Main Steet will not and is not buying it. They don't consult nuanced threads or aguments about TDS. They look at common sense.

This midterms does not pass the common sense test. It doesn't even matter what actually happened. Trouble is ahead. There is not a single `ordinary' non board following person know liberal or conservative that thinks this is legit.

Because you see, that is precisely the thing: outside of nuanced explanations, only one conclusion seems reasonable.