Holy ***** Y'all need to find new champions. Russia are NOT the glorious knights that will sweep out liberalism in the world and the fact some of y'all are actually buying that is jaw dropping.

Russia is not holy in their tactics, and Putin is an evil, Godless tyrant. Also, Ukraine is corrupt as the day is long. There are no heroes in this war. Our support for Ukraine stems solely from our opposition to Russian influence.

Anyone who buys that this war is somehow being fought for Christendom has a few screws loose. A re-emergent Soviet Union does nothing to promote religion, and tyranny will never result in a just outcome. If you actually want to spread your values, do it through reason and consent, not at the end of a gun.

aginresearch said:

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That is not a biblical principle. The church exists outside of political boundaries or governments. It was designed to survive no matter the form of government. So called Christian states are nothing more than governments trying to co-opt the church for it's own purposes. Those states did more to impede the spread of the gospel than they did to help it. The composer of Psalm 146 says: "Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation."

I will say this is the Politics forum so I will desist from the theological discussion henceforth. I will add that I fully believe biblical teaching should guide who I select as my governmental representative and the policies I support. However, salvation is not found in government.

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As usual they're reminiscing of the good old days when Church controlled States could imprison, torture, and burn at the stake those that dared to disagree.

Kvetch said:

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Russia is not holy in their tactics, and Putin is an evil, Godless tyrant. Also, Ukraine is corrupt as the day is long. There are no heroes in this war. Our support for Ukraine stems solely from our opposition to Russian influence.

Anyone who buys that this war is somehow being fought for Christendom has a few screws loose. A re-emergent Soviet Union does nothing to promote religion, and tyranny will never result in a just outcome. If you actually want to spread your values, do it through reason and consent, not at the end of a gun.

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You may be missing the point. It is a way of understanding the foe, not a prescription. This reminds a little of the insistence on the Western point of view about what is decent when trying to understand the Islamists back in the 9/11 days. Our view does not matter for understanding this.

And its not an emergent Soviet Union -- but an emergent Tsarist Russia. Catherine the Great stuff. That's just one example of missing the insight this gives. If this is how Russia is starting to see it (and its not just Putin talking that way, but the ROC Patriarch himself) and if it is true that Ukraine is exporting West coast values to Eastern Europe, than this may have traction. Beware.

Kvetch said:

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Russia is not holy in their tactics, and Putin is an evil, Godless tyrant. Also, Ukraine is corrupt as the day is long. There are no heroes in this war. Our support for Ukraine stems solely from our opposition to Russian influence.

Anyone who buys that this war is somehow being fought for Christendom has a few screws loose. A re-emergent Soviet Union does nothing to promote religion, and tyranny will never result in a just outcome. If you actually want to spread your values, do it through reason and consent, not at the end of a gun.

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Blule parachute for you.

titan said:

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Kvetch said:

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Russia is not holy in their tactics, and Putin is an evil, Godless tyrant. Also, Ukraine is corrupt as the day is long. There are no heroes in this war. Our support for Ukraine stems solely from our opposition to Russian influence.

Anyone who buys that this war is somehow being fought for Christendom has a few screws loose. A re-emergent Soviet Union does nothing to promote religion, and tyranny will never result in a just outcome. If you actually want to spread your values, do it through reason and consent, not at the end of a gun.

---

You may be missing the point. It is a way of understanding the foe, not a prescription. This reminds a little of the insistence on the Western point of view about what is decent when trying to understand the Islamists back in the 9/11 days. Our view does not matter for understanding this.

And its not an emergent Soviet Union -- but an emergent Tsarist Russia. Catherine the Great stuff. That's just one example of missing the insight this gives. If this is how Russia is starting to see it (and its not just Putin talking that way, but the ROC Patriarch himself) and if it is true that Ukraine is exporting West coast values to Eastern Europe, than this may have traction. Beware.

---

This just started emerging days ago. Russia has tried just about every other justification for their invasion so they are flinging this against the wall and seeing if it sticks. This has about as much depth and meaning as AOC fake crying at a border fence.

Until we start seeing the Russian people truly starting to sway towards the old ways, (which we aren't) this is 100% a political move and will probably pan out just as badly and meaninglessly as every other one they have pulled in the last few months.

"If the world won't believe that we are fighting Nazis, maybe they will believe we are fighting to preserve Christiandom!" I guess it worked on a few people here…. No matter the intellectual and moral cognitive dissonance needed to cheer on an oppressive and rapacious state that has plagued our world for hundreds of years with the very sins they say they are against.

Kvetch said:

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Russia is not holy in their tactics, and Putin is an evil, Godless tyrant. Also, Ukraine is corrupt as the day is long. There are no heroes in this war. Our support for Ukraine stems solely from our opposition to Russian influence.

Anyone who buys that this war is somehow being fought for Christendom has a few screws loose. A re-emergent Soviet Union does nothing to promote religion, and tyranny will never result in a just outcome. If you actually want to spread your values, do it through reason and consent, not at the end of a gun.

---

Ah yes all the killing, murder of civilians, and rapes being done in the name of God for Putins "Holy War".

Just another "righteous" crusade in their minds.

The Soviet Union loved God so much that they turned their churches into swimming pools. There is nothing "Christian" about countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc. the State is their God.

Russia wanted land and they thought they could take it like they did in 2014. This isn't some holy crusade.

FriscoKid said:

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The Soviet Union loved God so much that they turned their churches into swimming pools. There is nothing "Christian" about countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc. the State is their God.

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Russia is not the Soviet Union.

Pookers said:

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FriscoKid said:

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The Soviet Union loved God so much that they turned their churches into swimming pools. There is nothing "Christian" about countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc. the State is their God.

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Russia is not the Soviet Union.

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Their "president" was/is.

Based, I guess. What Western civilization is turning into, I wouldn't want that to spread further

No, the ROC stances on it go back further. And the allusions to such an aspect of the war even invoked when the Moskva was sunk. Reportedly had gone to sea with a holy relic aboard. So that aspect has been an undercurrent. And even before the Ukraine War the Putin clique has talked about the old Istanbul dream. I think it goes deeper than a ploy of just a few days.

What is new to me hearing is that Ukraine exports west coast perversions -- or the claim it does. Would not have imagined Ukraine being much different in that regard from its neighbors. Previously the propaganda seemed more focused on its role as DC pawn in things like the claims of the labs that Ted Cruz talked about. This idea that they foster gender bender stuff is a surprise, so understand that are just processing that in this context.

FriscoKid said:

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Pookers said:

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FriscoKid said:

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The Soviet Union loved God so much that they turned their churches into swimming pools. There is nothing "Christian" about countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc. the State is their God.

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Russia is not the Soviet Union.

---

Their "president" was/is.

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I'm willing to bet there's currently more commies in the US than there are in Russia. This isn't the cold war anymore. Russia isn't the good guy in this situation but neither is the west. We need to stop getting involved in foreign affairs and fix things at home.

RebelE Infantry said:

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Based

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Not to mention

Quote:

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"As for as the war of wide dimensions in Ukraine, begun by the Russian Federation, the interventions of the Holy Father Francis are clear and unequivocal in condemning it as morally unjust, unacceptable, barbaric, senseless, repugnant and sacrilegious."

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https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-pope-francis-religion-moscow-8daccc2a83b24a94cff36f3b2a45dc4d

Fortunately in Catholicism you can pick and choose when to back the Pope and the church as our local Theocracy folks have shown.

Based sacrilege, that you are reveling in.

There's nothing wrong with loving some sacrilege, unless you consider yourself a warrior for the Catholic Church, which would show how hollow that stance is.

Pookers said:

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FriscoKid said:

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Pookers said:

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FriscoKid said:

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The Soviet Union loved God so much that they turned their churches into swimming pools. There is nothing "Christian" about countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc. the State is their God.

---

Russia is not the Soviet Union.

---

Their "president" was/is.

---

I'm willing to bet there's currently more commies in the US than there are in Russia. This isn't the cold war anymore. Russia isn't the good guy in this situation but neither is the west. We need to stop getting involved in foreign affairs and fix things at home.

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That's absolutely true. For one thing the entire woke movement is more commie. There is more of the Soviet Union ideology in your anti-Sully crowd and BLM than there is in Russia currently. This is a persistent mistake people keep making. If they would just remember that World War I had villains that were Christian and not Nazis or communists, they might understand it better.

You can say Russia is being wicked without implying the regime is godless communists still. Thats far closer, no question, of the Biden admin's composition.

Faustus said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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Based

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Not to mention

Quote:

---

"As for as the war of wide dimensions in Ukraine, begun by the Russian Federation, the interventions of the Holy Father Francis are clear and unequivocal in condemning it as morally unjust, unacceptable, barbaric, senseless, repugnant and sacrilegious."

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-pope-francis-religion-moscow-8daccc2a83b24a94cff36f3b2a45dc4d

Fortunately in Catholicism you can pick and choose when to back the Pope and the church as our local Theocracy folks have shown.

Based sacrilege.

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Tell me you know nothing about Catholicism without telling me you know nothing about Catholicism. Absolute clown

Putin claims he's fighting a holy war against Satanism. I thought: who will believe this crap? Then I logged on to TexAgs. Oh.

RebelE Infantry said:

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Faustus said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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Based

---

Not to mention

Quote:

---

"As for as the war of wide dimensions in Ukraine, begun by the Russian Federation, the interventions of the Holy Father Francis are clear and unequivocal in condemning it as morally unjust, unacceptable, barbaric, senseless, repugnant and sacrilegious."

---

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-pope-francis-religion-moscow-8daccc2a83b24a94cff36f3b2a45dc4d

Fortunately in Catholicism you can pick and choose when to back the Pope and the church as our local Theocracy folks have shown.

Based sacrilege.

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Tell me you know nothing about Catholicism without telling me you know nothing about Catholicism. Absolute clown

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Sacrilege supporter.

Seethe and cope, as you like to say.

titan said:

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No, the ROC stances on it go back further. And the allusions to such an aspect of the war even invoked when the Moskva was sunk. Reportedly had gone to sea with a holy relic aboard. So that aspect has been an undercurrent. And even before the Ukraine War the Putin clique has talked about the old Istanbul dream. I think it goes deeper than a ploy of just a few days.

What is new to me hearing is that Ukraine exports west coast perversions -- or the claim it does. Would not have imagined Ukraine being much different in that regard from its neighbors. Previously the propaganda seemed more focused on its role as DC pawn in things like the claims of the labs that Ted Cruz talked about. This idea that they foster gender bender stuff is a surprise, so understand that are just processing that in this context.

---

The ROC has said a few things in the past like the relic but chalked it up to their usual nonsense. I don't remember the Russian state actively supporting any of it though, like the claim of the holy relic. May be wrong on that though. But Putin is now officially on board in words and writing and that is a new-ish development for sure. At least to the world. Their church has always had some presence but now it is getting airtime.

Also, would not put any real merit into the claim of the Ukes being a bastion of godless, liberal filth or whatever Silian was ranting about. I think you can see how biased that claim is from him. A cherry picked tweet from months ago when the war was still very much in doubt of Uke survival is not the harbinger of super liberalism in Eastern Europe. To be blunt, I would say what needed to be said to help guarantee American aid at that time to if I were in their shoes and let's face it. That path speaks to our gubment. Even then that tweet was an outlier at best. There is absolutely nothing I have seen that indicates that Ukraine is on the path to becoming a west coast lite nation culturally. And I follow this stuff very closely.

Oh?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/02/world/europe/ukraine-gay-marriage.html

Eliminatus said:

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titan said:

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No, the ROC stances on it go back further. And the allusions to such an aspect of the war even invoked when the Moskva was sunk. Reportedly had gone to sea with a holy relic aboard. So that aspect has been an undercurrent. And even before the Ukraine War the Putin clique has talked about the old Istanbul dream. I think it goes deeper than a ploy of just a few days.

What is new to me hearing is that Ukraine exports west coast perversions -- or the claim it does. Would not have imagined Ukraine being much different in that regard from its neighbors. Previously the propaganda seemed more focused on its role as DC pawn in things like the claims of the labs that Ted Cruz talked about. This idea that they foster gender bender stuff is a surprise, so understand that are just processing that in this context.

---

The ROC has said a few things in the past like the relic but chalked it up to their usual nonsense. I don't remember the Russian state actively supporting any of it though, like the claim of the holy relic. May be wrong on that though. But Putin is now officially on board in words and writing and that is a new-ish development for sure. At least to the world. Their church has always had some presence but now it is getting airtime.

Also, would not put any real merit into the claim of the Ukes being a bastion of godless, liberal filth or whatever Silian was ranting about. I think you can see how biased that claim is from him. A cherry picked tweet from months ago when the war was still very much in doubt of Uke survival is not the harbinger of super liberalism in Eastern Europe. To be blunt, I would say what needed to be said to help guarantee American aid at that time to if I were in their shoes and let's face it. That path speaks to our gubment. Even then that tweet was an outlier at best. There is absolutely nothing I have seen that indicates that Ukraine is on the path to becoming a west coast lite nation culturally. And I follow this stuff very closely.

---

I agree, that it seems rather doubtful Ukraine would be of that nature. Like said, probably far more like their Eastern Europe neighbors in that regard---travelers say its like going back to the 80's here (a good thing). The irony is Putin's description would match Biden's admin far more than Zelensky's. So this seems propaganda indeed. Your point about their pandering for our aid also rings true.

But on the other matter the Russian state has been supporting such revivals even before there was any serious troubles -- off and on through this century. If not mistake, I think Putin even goes to some masses. The appearance of Tsarist restoration has been ongoing and not connected to war propaganda.

titan said:

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No, the ROC stances on it go back further. And the allusions to such an aspect of the war even invoked when the Moskva was sunk. Reportedly had gone to sea with a holy relic aboard. So that aspect has been an undercurrent. And even before the Ukraine War the Putin clique has talked about the old Istanbul dream. I think it goes deeper than a ploy of just a few days.

What is new to me hearing is that Ukraine exports west coast perversions -- or the claim it does. Would not have imagined Ukraine being much different in that regard from its neighbors. Previously the propaganda seemed more focused on its role as DC pawn in things like the claims of the labs that Ted Cruz talked about. This idea that they foster gender bender stuff is a surprise, so understand that are just processing that in this context.

---

Titan knows his history. Moscow as the Third Rome is a concept dating back to the 14th century in the Tsardom of Rus. It is expressed in "two Romes have fallen, the third stands, and there will be no fourth." It is both ancient and deeply ingrained in the Russian psyche.

When you a church and a population anoint secular government with the concept that it can do no wrong in the sight of God, then all kinds of godless behavior will become manifest.

The invocation by Putin of this concept reminds me of Stalin in WW2, who had persecuted the church until he needed it, and suddenly used it to encourage patriotism and unity. There is nothing new under the sun- same motivation now, just taking a page out of the despot playbook.

Eastern Europe has a lot of appeal to me. Sometimes I think I would rather live in places like Poland, Romania, Ukraine, etc than in the US. They still remember what it was like under The Soviet Union and they want no part of that. Half of our country thinks socialism is great and they would like the US to do it.

I'm sure they have problems with corruption, but so does the US. (And maybe more so if you include DC)

Hitler used the church too...

Better comparison is Mussolini. Hitler all but made his own worldview and table talk monologues the religion. Hitlerisim is not a half-bad term for it for understanding it accurately.

titan said:

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Eliminatus said:

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titan said:

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No, the ROC stances on it go back further. And the allusions to such an aspect of the war even invoked when the Moskva was sunk. Reportedly had gone to sea with a holy relic aboard. So that aspect has been an undercurrent. And even before the Ukraine War the Putin clique has talked about the old Istanbul dream. I think it goes deeper than a ploy of just a few days.

What is new to me hearing is that Ukraine exports west coast perversions -- or the claim it does. Would not have imagined Ukraine being much different in that regard from its neighbors. Previously the propaganda seemed more focused on its role as DC pawn in things like the claims of the labs that Ted Cruz talked about. This idea that they foster gender bender stuff is a surprise, so understand that are just processing that in this context.

---

The ROC has said a few things in the past like the relic but chalked it up to their usual nonsense. I don't remember the Russian state actively supporting any of it though, like the claim of the holy relic. May be wrong on that though. But Putin is now officially on board in words and writing and that is a new-ish development for sure. At least to the world. Their church has always had some presence but now it is getting airtime.

Also, would not put any real merit into the claim of the Ukes being a bastion of godless, liberal filth or whatever Silian was ranting about. I think you can see how biased that claim is from him. A cherry picked tweet from months ago when the war was still very much in doubt of Uke survival is not the harbinger of super liberalism in Eastern Europe. To be blunt, I would say what needed to be said to help guarantee American aid at that time to if I were in their shoes and let's face it. That path speaks to our gubment. Even then that tweet was an outlier at best. There is absolutely nothing I have seen that indicates that Ukraine is on the path to becoming a west coast lite nation culturally. And I follow this stuff very closely.

---

I agree, that it seems rather doubtful Ukraine would be of that nature. Like said, probably far more like their Eastern Europe neighbors in that regard---travelers say its like going back to the 80's here (a good thing). The irony is Putin's description would match Biden's admin far more than Zelensky's. So this seems propaganda indeed. Your point about their pandering for our aid also rings true.

But on the other matter the Russian state has been supporting such revivals even before there was any serious troubles -- off and on through this century. If not mistake, I think Putin even goes to some masses. The appearance of Tsarist restoration has been ongoing and not connected to war propaganda.

---

That is definitely interesting. Will do some digging on my own later as my knowledge of Russian orthodoxy post Stalin is slim. There has always been a deep longing in their government for the glory days of the Russian Empire I believe though and having a return to the ROC mindset as a guiding hand and beacon has been something that has been talked about here in the same vein of Islamic Jihad. Have read some into that from the political and tactical aspect. But nothing overtly meaningful to take notice of at the national level is what I thought but again, will look into that as I flat out don't know for sure. I love these kinds of deep dives purely for my own enjoyment and education. Thanks for giving me a new bone to chew on!

I do see that possibility being entirely feasible though. What I do know is that national hardship has often been a trigger for such reformations and "reawakenings" and Russia has definitely been through some upheaval as of late…

I get the feeling several on here would love for Russia to take over the US and would actively support them.

FriscoKid said:

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Eastern Europe has a lot of appeal to me. Sometimes I think I would rather live in places like Poland, Romania, Ukraine, etc than in the US. They still remember what it was like under The Soviet Union and they want no part of that. Half of our country thinks socialism is great and they would like the US to do it.

I'm sure they have problems with corruption, but so does the US. (And maybe more so if you include DC)

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Current discussion aside, Eastern Europe is such a treasure trove of history and culture. HUGE fan of it. Have not been to Romania or Ukraine but I have spent a few weeks in Poland and loved every second of it. I always think of them as honorary Texans and of all my travels, they are the ones I can identify with most culturally speaking.

I'll actually say this to everyone. If y'all have the means and time, please go out and visit some other parts of the world if you have not. Not every place is super amazing but there is always something to be learned out there. Even if it is more perspective. Something your average American desperately needs more of.

BattleGrackle said:

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I get the feeling several on here would love for Russia to take over the US and would actively support them.

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Nonsense! Poland, Czechs, or Hungary's attitudes on the other hand.....

I'm not a "Putin fanboy" but the stooges on here that refuse to consider a) why the US has not made a single diplomatic overture to avoid this humanitarian crisis b) the ease of lining the pockets of world elites and American politicians with tax dollars of everyday Americans through this conduit c) the seeming callous disregard for the potential crisis of nuclear conflict all because "you stand with Ukraine" are a bunch of huckleberries.

aginresearch said:

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Putin wouldn't know biblical principles even if he tripped over them. Nothing in the Sermon on the Mount would support what Putin is doing. The idea that people fight physical wars for the Kingdom of God under the new covenant is absurd. Jesus himself told Pilate in John 18: "If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world."

You do not convert people to Christ by the sword. Josiah tried this approach and it worked for a short while but as soon as he died the people became as sinful as they ever were.

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As Titan so eloquently pointed out, this is Tsarist Russia, not Soviet Russia. I don't buy the holy war stuff, but conflating an autocracy/oligarchy like modern Russia to the USSR is disingenuous in its attempt to make an untrue negative correlation.