Curious if anybody knows the answer to this. If all of the documents have been declassified, than I would assume the answer is "no," and it would actually be a pretty serious breach of security to give a civilian clearance when he has no responsibilities that would require it. What do you guys think?
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Does the Special Master need security clearance?
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Last: 2 yr ago by Ag with kids
The Trump team said he should have top secret clearance
IIRC, Trump's attorneys recommended that the special master have a security clearance.
Weird. Did they say why?HTownAg98 said:
IIRC, Trump's attorneys recommended that the special master have a security clearance.
They did not. Just that they agreed the that the special master should have TS/SCI clearance. See page 14.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.58.0_4.pdf
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.58.0_4.pdf
solishu said:Weird. Did they say why?HTownAg98 said:
IIRC, Trump's attorneys recommended that the special master have a security clearance.
Posting in a troll bread.
Flag the troll and move along
What are you talking about?fooz said:
Posting in a troll bread.
Dems should create a special court for these serious issues.
No reason we can't have secret evidence used against political opponents. Sometimes protecting democracy requires curtail of fundamental rights … you know. Just this one time because its an emergency.
Maybe call it the actBlue Star Chamber or something.
Just a thought.
No reason we can't have secret evidence used against political opponents. Sometimes protecting democracy requires curtail of fundamental rights … you know. Just this one time because its an emergency.
Maybe call it the actBlue Star Chamber or something.
Just a thought.
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
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If it's a senior or retired judge, they'll almost assuredly have it anyways making the question moot.
If there's debate about whether the documents have been declassified, then to be safe the SM should have the appropriate clearance, IMO. Otherwise they would be risking a security breach, at least it would be if one of us peons were given access without clearance.solishu said:
Curious if anybody knows the answer to this. If all of the documents have been declassified, than I would assume the answer is "no," and it would actually be a pretty serious breach of security to give a civilian clearance when he has no responsibilities that would require it. What do you guys think?
If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
I suspect that the reason that they haven't "reclassified" them just to be sure is that they don't want to give any credence to the notion that Trump ever "declassified" them.AgGrad99 said:eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
In any event, if Trump really did declassify them and then Biden reclassified them, then Trump would have no legitimate right to keep them.
Which would suggest the need for proper clearance.
Either way, it's not logically consistent.
Either way, it's not logically consistent.
I think that there is very little reason to believe that they were ever declassified.AgGrad99 said:
Which would suggest the need for proper clearance.
Either way, it's not logically consistent.
What about the underwear and time magazines?eric76 said:I think that there is very little reason to believe that they were ever declassified.AgGrad99 said:
Which would suggest the need for proper clearance.
Either way, it's not logically consistent.
Faustus said:solishu said:What are you talking about?fooz said:
Posting in a troll bread.
That he's being a crepe.
What kind? Chocolate? Blueberry?
And it would be a document dispute between NARA and Trump, not the DOJ...eric76 said:I suspect that the reason that they haven't "reclassified" them just to be sure is that they don't want to give any credence to the notion that Trump ever "declassified" them.AgGrad99 said:eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
In any event, if Trump really did declassify them and then Biden reclassified them, then Trump would have no legitimate right to keep them.
You can turn off signatures, btw
eric76 said:I think.AgGrad99 said:
Which would suggest the need for proper clearance.
Either way, it's not logically consistent.
lol
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Probably why Trump (and I assume the DOJ) all proposed people that almost assuredly already have clearance so this issue is moot.AgGrad99 said:
Which would suggest the need for proper clearance.
Either way, it's not logically consistent.
Trump would pick people with clearance to avoid the lazy lawyer trick (if he declassified them, why do they need clearance, amirite???) that people are throwing around on this thread.
DOJ would pick people with clearance because offering someone without clearance nukes their position about impermissible possession of confidential information.
So the person picked will almost assuredly have clearance regardless of whether they need it. This is all academic.
This thread is dumb.
Which is my understanding of how this all began, a dispute between NARA and Trump. NARA contacted Trump concerning Presidential records he took when he left the WH in Jan 2021. Most notably it had been reported in the news that Trump had been displaying a letter from Kim Jung-un to visitors to Mar-A-Lago, so NARA began communications with Trump for the return of any and all such documents. This started in May 2012, I believe. For months there were communications between NARA and Trump concerning these records.Ag with kids said:And it would be a document dispute between NARA and Trump, not the DOJ...eric76 said:I suspect that the reason that they haven't "reclassified" them just to be sure is that they don't want to give any credence to the notion that Trump ever "declassified" them.AgGrad99 said:eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
In any event, if Trump really did declassify them and then Biden reclassified them, then Trump would have no legitimate right to keep them.
As a result, in January 2022, Trump transferred 15 boxes of documents to NARA, who asked, and received, a waiver on executive privilege to review these records from President Biden. When reviewing these records, NARA discovered there were some documents that contained national defense information (NDI) in the boxes, mixed with other documents. This is when NARA referred these documents to the DoJ. The DoJ then made a formal request to Biden that the FBI investigate these records. This is a requirement of the PRA, that only the president can authorize law enforcement to investigate presidential records.
So, this started as a dispute between NARA and Trump. After 7 months, Trump sent some records to NARA, as requested. When looking at these records, NARA discovered NDI along with some of the other records, so they referred the matter to DoJ. The DoJ got permission from Biden to allow FBI investigate the matter, which resulted in the evidence used to obtain the search warrant, as the FBI found credible evidence that documents that were marked classified were still present at MaL.
In don't believe that in any of the communications between Trump and NARA, in response to any subpoena, or in or response to any motions filed associated with the search warrant has Trump made the assertion that he declassified any of the documents.
It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone that he has been fooled.
Must be even lazier lawyering to never actually make the claim in a filed document that he declassified, amarite???Quote:
Trump would pick people with clearance to avoid the lazy lawyer trick (if he declassified them, why do they need clearance, amirite???) that people are throwing around on this thread.
How hard would it be to write "President Trump contends these documents were declassified, but given the dispute agrees the special master should have certain security clearance"?
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The DOJ does not get involved with classified documents?Ag with kids said:And it would be a document dispute between NARA and Trump, not the DOJ...eric76 said:I suspect that the reason that they haven't "reclassified" them just to be sure is that they don't want to give any credence to the notion that Trump ever "declassified" them.AgGrad99 said:eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
In any event, if Trump really did declassify them and then Biden reclassified them, then Trump would have no legitimate right to keep them.
These are either personal records or Presidential records - therefore it's covered by the PRA. So, a civil issue between the POTUS and NARA.eric76 said:The DOJ does not get involved with classified documents?Ag with kids said:And it would be a document dispute between NARA and Trump, not the DOJ...eric76 said:I suspect that the reason that they haven't "reclassified" them just to be sure is that they don't want to give any credence to the notion that Trump ever "declassified" them.AgGrad99 said:eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
In any event, if Trump really did declassify them and then Biden reclassified them, then Trump would have no legitimate right to keep them.
You can turn off signatures, btw
Agreed.Quote:
So the person picked will almost assuredly have clearance regardless of whether they need it. This is all academic.
Im just pointing out the logical inconsistencies of some posts on the thread.
If they are classified, it is difficult to imagine how they could be personal records.Ag with kids said:These are either personal records or Presidential records - therefore it's covered by the PRA. So, a civil issue between the POTUS and NARA.eric76 said:The DOJ does not get involved with classified documents?Ag with kids said:And it would be a document dispute between NARA and Trump, not the DOJ...eric76 said:I suspect that the reason that they haven't "reclassified" them just to be sure is that they don't want to give any credence to the notion that Trump ever "declassified" them.AgGrad99 said:eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
In any event, if Trump really did declassify them and then Biden reclassified them, then Trump would have no legitimate right to keep them.
I don't see how the classified records could possibly not be in the realm of National Security merely because Trump breathed on them at some point.
OK. If they're not personal records, they're Presidential records. Which are covered by the Presidential Records Act. And again, that's a civil issues between the FPOTUS and NARA. NARA knows this. The DOJ knows this. But, because Orange Man Bad, here we are.eric76 said:If they are classified, it is difficult to imagine how they could be personal records.Ag with kids said:These are either personal records or Presidential records - therefore it's covered by the PRA. So, a civil issue between the POTUS and NARA.eric76 said:The DOJ does not get involved with classified documents?Ag with kids said:And it would be a document dispute between NARA and Trump, not the DOJ...eric76 said:I suspect that the reason that they haven't "reclassified" them just to be sure is that they don't want to give any credence to the notion that Trump ever "declassified" them.AgGrad99 said:eric76 said:If Trump can declassify them with his imagination, then Biden can surely reclassify them with his imagination.Im Gipper said:
I thought these were all declassified? Why is security clearance needed?
That's a funny way of framing things...
But if we assume that's a proper line of reasoning...doesn't it reiterate the point?
If they are reclassified, wouldn't we need someone with the proper clearance to review them? Otherwise, there is no issue, because they weren't' improperly taken to begin with.
In any event, if Trump really did declassify them and then Biden reclassified them, then Trump would have no legitimate right to keep them.
I don't see how the classified records could possibly not be in the realm of National Security merely because Trump breathed on them at some point.
You can turn off signatures, btw