Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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I just read more about it.

The dudes girlfriend and a lawyer went to the police and told them the dude was making bombs in the RV a few months before the incident.

The FBI and the DOD checked the guy out. The determined that it was unsubstantiated and closed the case.

Once again, the perpetrator is known to police.

How many times have we seen this?

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There is only so much law enforcement can do while respecting an individual's rights. The guy's girlfriend was suicidal when she told the cops he was building a bomb, so she had minimal credibility to begin with. The attorney was hers and had previously represented Warner, but had no first hand knowledge. The cops went to see him, but couldn't make contact with him and left the case open. What are they supposed to do, break down his door and search his property on the word of a suicidal and mentally unstable person? There's not much probable cause there, and if that were grounds for warrant, you'd probably ***** to high heaven if it was a false alarm and the guy had his property searched for nothing.

TXAGFAN said:

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1939 said:

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This thread is so dumb. US government want to kill MBS, but instead decides to kill 50 something concert goers? how in the world does that make any sense?

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It doesn't, but they did their "research" so no convincing them otherwise. There are posts after every major event, in particular tragedies, with this sort of spin/conspiracy.

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Conspiracies happen when governments aren't fully transparent or follow an agenda.
You'd think you'd know more about motives after the biggest mass shooting in the US. But nope. Nothing.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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I just read more about it.

The dudes girlfriend and a lawyer went to the police and told them the dude was making bombs in the RV a few months before the incident.

The FBI and the DOD checked the guy out. The determined that it was unsubstantiated and closed the case.

Once again, the perpetrator is known to police.

How many times have we seen this?

---

There is only so much law enforcement can do while respecting an individual's rights. The guy's girlfriend was suicidal when she told the cops he was building a bomb, so she had minimal credibility to begin with. The attorney was hers and had previously represented Warner, but had no first hand knowledge. The cops went to see him, but couldn't make contact with him and left the case open. What are they supposed to do, break down his door and search his property on the word of a suicidal and mentally unstable person? There's not much probable cause there, and if that were grounds for warrant, you'd probably ***** to high heaven if it was a false alarm and the guy had his property searched for nothing.

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Also, if they didn't actually find a bomb - i assume they didn't - then there's not much that law enforcement can do.

deddog said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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1939 said:

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This thread is so dumb. US government want to kill MBS, but instead decides to kill 50 something concert goers? how in the world does that make any sense?

---

It doesn't, but they did their "research" so no convincing them otherwise. There are posts after every major event, in particular tragedies, with this sort of spin/conspiracy.

---

Conspiracies happen when governments aren't fully transparent or follow an agenda.
You'd think you'd know more about motives after the biggest mass shooting in the US. But nope. Nothing.

---

And talking about agendas.

Let's see.

A gay hating islamic bigot kills a bunch of gays at a bar, and who gets the blame?
Islam? Nope.
The bigot? Nope.
Aah yes, conservatives and AR-15s.
All the protests after Pulse were about gun control.
None about the way the Islamic world treats gays.
Maybe Pulse is a memorial, because that's when the gay community realized that they were at the bottom of the victim totem pole. Islamist trumped gays. So they were reduced to demonstrating against inanimate objects.
Maybe that's why the pivot to Trans and other alphabets?

deddog said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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1939 said:

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This thread is so dumb. US government want to kill MBS, but instead decides to kill 50 something concert goers? how in the world does that make any sense?

---

It doesn't, but they did their "research" so no convincing them otherwise. There are posts after every major event, in particular tragedies, with this sort of spin/conspiracy.

---

Conspiracies happen when governments aren't fully transparent or follow an agenda.
You'd think you'd know more about motives after the biggest mass shooting in the US. But nope. Nothing.

---

I find it frustrating as hell, but I don't think the crazy answer is the right answer.

deddog said:

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deddog said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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1939 said:

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This thread is so dumb. US government want to kill MBS, but instead decides to kill 50 something concert goers? how in the world does that make any sense?

---

It doesn't, but they did their "research" so no convincing them otherwise. There are posts after every major event, in particular tragedies, with this sort of spin/conspiracy.

---

Conspiracies happen when governments aren't fully transparent or follow an agenda.
You'd think you'd know more about motives after the biggest mass shooting in the US. But nope. Nothing.

---

And talking about agendas.

Let's see.

A gay hating islamic bigot kills a bunch of gays at a bar, and who gets the blame?
Islam? Nope.
The bigot? Nope.
Aah yes, conservatives and AR-15s.
All the protests after Pulse were about gun control.
None about the way the Islamic world treats gays.
Maybe Pulse is a memorial, because that's when the gay community realized that they were at the bottom of the victim totem pole. Islamist trumped gays. So they were reduced to demonstrating against inanimate objects.
Maybe that's why the pivot to Trans and other alphabets?

---

I don't know where this narrative came from that Muslim extremists get a pass in the name of some sort of Democratic Party desires to accept everyone, not say anything bad about Muslim religion, etc.

As a well traveled gay guy with lots of well traveled gay friends, anytime we travel anywhere we are well aware of the religious climate. It's why many of us won't be caught dead in even a more "progressive" Muslim majority place like Dubai. When you have to lookup if you can check in with your significant other when you travel to a hotel before you go to a new country let me know.

I think the Pulse shooting was at its core just another dangerous mentally damaged bad guy with a gun, this one (out of countless similar mass shooting events) happened to be Muslim. It's all part of the same issue and I think his religion and extremist views were discussed by many on both sides of aisle. By the way, it was later reported and seems pretty clear to me the guy had no idea it was a gay club.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate

We aren't going to fix Muslim world re: extremists and have countless examples why (we spent billions in Afghanistan and they went right back to their old ways - would have happened with either party in White House). If this was the ONLY masa shooting in recent history I may agree with you it didn't get an appropriate amount of attention re: if these people exist in US and if that's a problem, we both know there's many and some are far worse with killing of innocent children.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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I just read more about it.

The dudes girlfriend and a lawyer went to the police and told them the dude was making bombs in the RV a few months before the incident.

The FBI and the DOD checked the guy out. The determined that it was unsubstantiated and closed the case.

Once again, the perpetrator is known to police.

How many times have we seen this?

---

There is only so much law enforcement can do while respecting an individual's rights. The guy's girlfriend was suicidal when she told the cops he was building a bomb, so she had minimal credibility to begin with. The attorney was hers and had previously represented Warner, but had no first hand knowledge. The cops went to see him, but couldn't make contact with him and left the case open. What are they supposed to do, break down his door and search his property on the word of a suicidal and mentally unstable person? There's not much probable cause there, and if that were grounds for warrant, you'd probably ***** to high heaven if it was a false alarm and the guy had his property searched for nothing.

---

You 100% right on the individual rights analysis and I agree.

But these are also the same people that wire tapped a presidential candidate's office building during the election on the basis of national security.

Grounds for a warrant? …. A Russian pee pee affidavit.

We spent 20 years building a homeland security / domestic terror apparatus and we've seen a lot of obvious perpetrators slip through the cracks. Example earlier this week with the highland park guy.

The Vegas shooter was probably a loan wolf that went crazy and killed a bunch of people in some sort of a malignant narcissist suicide. Same with the Germanwings pilot that intentionally crashed into the Alps. Its hard for people to accept that theres really not much we can do when a crazy person with a death wish wants to harm as many people on the way out as they can.

So, we try to make bigger meaning out of an unsatisfying answer of crazy people being crazy, and involve a shadow government, Sauidi Princes, the Rothschilds, George Soros, and Reptilians.

This would be the explanation for MH370 as well.

I get it, but its hard not to raise an eyebrow at some of what we've seen.

nvmd

Malibu2 said:

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The Vegas shooter was probably a loan wolf that went crazy and killed a bunch of people in some sort of a malignant narcissist suicide.

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I hate those greedy gaudy sumbiches

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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I just read more about it.

The dudes girlfriend and a lawyer went to the police and told them the dude was making bombs in the RV a few months before the incident.

The FBI and the DOD checked the guy out. The determined that it was unsubstantiated and closed the case.

Once again, the perpetrator is known to police.

How many times have we seen this?

---

There is only so much law enforcement can do while respecting an individual's rights..

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What horsecheet…..
Tell Gen Flynn that and see what kind of response you get.

I love the high horse guys on this thread suggesting the rest of us are idiots for daring to say there's something not right with the Vegas incident. Sure, it could be as simple as the government and media sweeping it under the rug in order to keep Vegas pumping money as a tourist destination, but that alone is shady. 58 people died and over 300 wounded and yet that incident gets a small fraction of the coverage of masa shootings with 10% of the body count.

Whether it was a spy or Saudi related or a lone wolf, there was an impressive and unified effort to make the story go away and go away quickly. That should at the very least raise eyebrows whether it was some massive conspiracy or not.

Malibu2 said:

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The Vegas shooter was probably a loan wolf that went crazy and killed a bunch of people in some sort of a malignant narcissist suicide. Same with the Germanwings pilot that intentionally crashed into the Alps. Its hard for people to accept that theres really not much we can do when a crazy person with a death wish wants to harm as many people on the way out as they can.

So, we try to make bigger meaning out of an unsatisfying answer of crazy people being crazy, and involve a shadow government, Sauidi Princes, the Rothschilds, George Soros, and Reptilians.

---

Yet the people you vote for blame innocent American gun owners and try to strip away their rights...

Grab the popcorn folks, this gonna get good.

Whatever people think of the MBS theory it looks like is being mis-stated.

If recall, it was not the US. govt per-se supposedly plotting against him, but a corrupt part of it working with the anti-MBS faction of Saudi. That's where that suicide shortly after (by an anti-MBS) Saudi that leaned Islamist apparently comes in. Possibly with help from corrupt intel, or not.

Just wanted to clarify, the notion as understood it was it was aimed at MBS by opponents, both US and Saudi -- but not the Trump admin. There were -- and are -two major factions at the very least in the Saudi scene.

nm

zgolfz85 said:

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I think the Vegas shooter is likely one of the shadier government-related things we've seen in our lifetimes. It's honestly remarkable how little anyone knows and how good a job they've done at sweeping it under the rug. Sorry, but you can't have a body count that high and just pretend like it didn't happen.

I hope the Vegas shooter truth comes out at some point. Even the chans couldn't get to the bottom of that one. That guy had to have been a spy or something that went off plan. It's fascinating.

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Truth like what?

zgolfz85 said:

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I love the high horse guys on this thread suggesting the rest of us are idiots for daring to say there's something not right with the Vegas incident. Sure, it could be as simple as the government and media sweeping it under the rug in order to keep Vegas pumping money as a tourist destination, but that alone is shady. 58 people died and over 300 wounded and yet that incident gets a small fraction of the coverage of masa shootings with 10% of the body count.

Whether it was a spy or Saudi related or a lone wolf, there was an impressive and unified effort to make the story go away and go away quickly. That should at the very least raise eyebrows whether it was some massive conspiracy or not.

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What effort was made to make this story go away?

Malibu2 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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I love the high horse guys on this thread suggesting the rest of us are idiots for daring to say there's something not right with the Vegas incident. Sure, it could be as simple as the government and media sweeping it under the rug in order to keep Vegas pumping money as a tourist destination, but that alone is shady. 58 people died and over 300 wounded and yet that incident gets a small fraction of the coverage of masa shootings with 10% of the body count.

Whether it was a spy or Saudi related or a lone wolf, there was an impressive and unified effort to make the story go away and go away quickly. That should at the very least raise eyebrows whether it was some massive conspiracy or not.

---

What effort was made to make this story go away?

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Well the govt controls the media you know, except when trump was in office because they hate him.

TXAGFAN said:

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Well the govt controls the media you know, except when trump was in office because they hate him.

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Well, I think gun absolutists are totally bonkers. If a guy goes to his therapist and admits he wants to kill lots of people, for heavens sake take his weapons away. That some of yall cant even get there is astonishing to me.

Malibu2 said:

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Well, I think gun absolutists are totally bonkers. If a guy goes to his therapist and admits he wants to kill lots of people, for heavens sake take his weapons away. That some of yall cant even get there is astonishing to me.

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Sounds like a good way to stop people from going to therapy

Malibu2 said:

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Well, I think gun absolutists are totally bonkers. If a guy goes to his therapist and admits he wants to kill lots of people, for heavens sake take his weapons away. That some of yall cant even get there is astonishing to me.

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I don't know who you're talking to when you say "some of yall".

Also...that's a deflection.

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Malibu2 said:

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The Vegas shooter was probably a loan wolf that went crazy and killed a bunch of people in some sort of a malignant narcissist suicide. Same with the Germanwings pilot that intentionally crashed into the Alps. Its hard for people to accept that theres really not much we can do when a crazy person with a death wish wants to harm as many people on the way out as they can.

So, we try to make bigger meaning out of an unsatisfying answer of crazy people being crazy, and involve a shadow government, Sauidi Princes, the Rothschilds, George Soros, and Reptilians.

---

Yet the people you vote for blame innocent American gun owners and try to strip away their rights...

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deddog said:

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Malibu2 said:

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Well, I think gun absolutists are totally bonkers. If a guy goes to his therapist and admits he wants to kill lots of people, for heavens sake take his weapons away. That some of yall cant even get there is astonishing to me.

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Sounds like a good way to stop people from going to therapy

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I think even around here not many would defend allowing a person to keep their guns in an extreme situation like that.

Now consider someone who sought psychiatric treatment because of a loss in their life, but never expressed or demonstrated any predisposition to violence. It isn't that tinfoily to think some states might use that as an excuse to grab guns. Nor wanting to look at three years of social media history.

It's representative of the rise in homophobia against the gay community, and is now seen as a pilgrimage to those who passed and the tragedy that occurred.

It affected a lot of gay men very deeply. Even when I go out I'm always having a nervous moment where I look for the nearest exit in case something happens.

torrid said:

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deddog said:

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Malibu2 said:

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Well, I think gun absolutists are totally bonkers. If a guy goes to his therapist and admits he wants to kill lots of people, for heavens sake take his weapons away. That some of yall cant even get there is astonishing to me.

---

Sounds like a good way to stop people from going to therapy

---

I think even around here not many would defend allowing a person to keep their guns in an extreme situation like that.

Now consider someone who sought psychiatric treatment because of a loss in their life, but never expressed or demonstrated any predisposition to violence. It isn't that tinfoily to think some states might use that as an excuse to grab guns. Nor wanting to look at three years of social media history.

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if you are mentally disturbed that you want to kill people, then you should be in an asylum.
Away from guns.
And cars.
And knives.
And baseball bats.

Anything that can be used to kill people.

The special emphasis on guns is entirely political. A lot of the people backing these rules also refer to gun owners as gun nuts.

BallerStaf2003 said:

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It's representative of the rise in homophobia against the gay community, and is now seen as a pilgrimage to those who passed and the tragedy that occurred.

It affected a lot of gay men very deeply. Even when I go out I'm always having a nervous moment where I look for the nearest exit in case something happens.

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Situational awareness and an exit plan is a good idea anywhere, anyplace, irrespective of your sexual orientation

Malibu2 said:

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Well, I think gun absolutists are totally bonkers. If a guy goes to his therapist and admits he wants to kill lots of people, for heavens sake take his weapons away. That some of yall cant even get there is astonishing to me.

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You took the most extreme example to try and make a retort while completely ignoring why people wouldn't trust our government led by democrats who are the kings of slippery slope incrementalism. I wonder why nobody trusts you??

ABattJudd said:

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I live in the Orlando area, and have driven past the Pulse nightclub numerous times. The structure still stands, but there is a barrier wall around the front. It is covered with memorials to those killed (including a kid I taught in 8th grade when I first started in education). Every so often you'll see people there paying respect to the victims.

I've also been to Vegas several times since that shooting occurred. There is not one memorial or anything at the site. You'd never know anything had happened there, as far as I can tell.

Do you think that is because the Pulse shooting targeted a particular community (LGBT) and therefore has more sentiment attached, or is it an effort to memory-hole Vegas given how little has been released to the public about the shooter?

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Protected class all bc of who you choose to sleep with.

I was in Orlando the night of the Pulse shooting visiting this chick I met on vacation. I didn't realize Facebook started this feature, but it asked me to verify that I "was safe" from the shooting. I clicked I was. I didn't know it notified all my FB contacts that I was "at or near" the Pulse Nightclub when the shooting happened and was safe.

All my friends had a field day with the gay jokes for months.

IslanderAg04 said:

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ABattJudd said:

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I live in the Orlando area, and have driven past the Pulse nightclub numerous times. The structure still stands, but there is a barrier wall around the front. It is covered with memorials to those killed (including a kid I taught in 8th grade when I first started in education). Every so often you'll see people there paying respect to the victims.

I've also been to Vegas several times since that shooting occurred. There is not one memorial or anything at the site. You'd never know anything had happened there, as far as I can tell.

Do you think that is because the Pulse shooting targeted a particular community (LGBT) and therefore has more sentiment attached, or is it an effort to memory-hole Vegas given how little has been released to the public about the shooter?

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Protected class all bc of who you choose to sleep with.

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Triggered?

deddog said:

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BallerStaf2003 said:

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It's representative of the rise in homophobia against the gay community, and is now seen as a pilgrimage to those who passed and the tragedy that occurred.

It affected a lot of gay men very deeply. Even when I go out I'm always having a nervous moment where I look for the nearest exit in case something happens.

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Situational awareness and an exit plan is a good idea anywhere, anyplace, irrespective of your sexual orientation

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It does raise the question whether the mass importing of potential Islamists raises any concerns (less so here than the counterparts in Europe)

TXAGFAN said:

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IslanderAg04 said:

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ABattJudd said:

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I live in the Orlando area, and have driven past the Pulse nightclub numerous times. The structure still stands, but there is a barrier wall around the front. It is covered with memorials to those killed (including a kid I taught in 8th grade when I first started in education). Every so often you'll see people there paying respect to the victims.

I've also been to Vegas several times since that shooting occurred. There is not one memorial or anything at the site. You'd never know anything had happened there, as far as I can tell.

Do you think that is because the Pulse shooting targeted a particular community (LGBT) and therefore has more sentiment attached, or is it an effort to memory-hole Vegas given how little has been released to the public about the shooter?

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Protected class all bc of who you choose to sleep with.

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Triggered?

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Nope, that's your role hommie. Just facts.

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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Malibu2 said:

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Well, I think gun absolutists are totally bonkers. If a guy goes to his therapist and admits he wants to kill lots of people, for heavens sake take his weapons away. That some of yall cant even get there is astonishing to me.

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You took the most extreme example to try and make a retort while completely ignoring why people wouldn't trust our government led by democrats who are the kings of slippery slope incrementalism. I wonder why nobody trusts you??

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This where I throw my hands up. Yes, I chose an extreme example where a red flag law is obvious common sense and Im being accused of slippery slope incrementalism and nobody should trust me.

I dont see how im being contradictory here. No, we cant stop motivated crazy people from carrying out acts of violence with bombs, cars, knives, acid, or guns. And yes, guns are one of the most effective ways of carrying out acts of violence, and we should probably have some bear minimum red flag laws.