This isn't a thread to argue if abortion is right or wrong. I'm just genuinely wondering what kind of welfare state we are going to create as a result of this ruling.

Obviously you're still going to be able to attain an abortion in many states. But, let's say instead of an average of 1 million abortions in America each year, there are 500,000. So that means 500,000 babies are born each year that otherwise would have been aborted.

Let's just multiply some numbers here. Take 500,000 unwanted babies, usually in low income areas, and multiply that by 18 years. 18 years from now, you'll have 9,000,000 children 18 years and under that were unwanted AND most of which will be from impoverished backgrounds.

So, not only are the majority of those minor children going to be receiving welfare, but they are also going to be raised in terrible conditions and many of which will ultimately go on to be criminals (thus becoming wards of the state within a few years of turning 18).

My mind is numb just thinking of the sheer amount of tax dollars that will be devoted to taking care of millions upon millions of unwanted kids growing up in the system or in poverty.

RockTXAggie said:

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This isn't a thread to argue if abortion is right or wrong. I'm just genuinely wondering what kind of welfare state we are going to create as a result of this ruling.

Obviously you're still going to be able to attain an abortion in many states. But, let's say instead of an average of 1 million abortions in America each year, there are 500,000. So that means 500,000 babies are born each year that otherwise would have been aborted.

Let's just multiply some numbers here. Take 500,000 unwanted babies, usually in low income areas, and multiply that by 18 years. 18 years from now, you'll have 9,000,000 children 18 years and under that were unwanted AND most of which will be from impoverished backgrounds.

So, not only are the majority of those minor children going to be receiving welfare, but they are also going to be raised in terrible conditions and many of which will ultimately go on to be criminals (thus becoming wards of the state within a few years of turning 18.

My mind is numb just thinking of the sheer amount of tax dollars that will be devoted to taking care of millions upon millions of unwanted kids growing up in the system or in poverty.

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since we are doing hypotheticals what if one of those 9 million cures cancer? would it be worth it?

If we're considering likely hypotheticals, you've left out a change of behavior as a possibility.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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RockTXAggie said:

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This isn't a thread to argue if abortion is right or wrong. I'm just genuinely wondering what kind of welfare state we are going to create as a result of this ruling.

Obviously you're still going to be able to attain an abortion in many states. But, let's say instead of an average of 1 million abortions in America each year, there are 500,000. So that means 500,000 babies are born each year that otherwise would have been aborted.

Let's just multiply some numbers here. Take 500,000 unwanted babies, usually in low income areas, and multiply that by 18 years. 18 years from now, you'll have 9,000,000 children 18 years and under that were unwanted AND most of which will be from impoverished backgrounds.

So, not only are the majority of those minor children going to be receiving welfare, but they are also going to be raised in terrible conditions and many of which will ultimately go on to be criminals (thus becoming wards of the state within a few years of turning 18.

My mind is numb just thinking of the sheer amount of tax dollars that will be devoted to taking care of millions upon millions of unwanted kids growing up in the system or in poverty.

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since we are doing hypotheticals what if one of those 9 million cures cancer? would it be worth it?

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That has nothing to do with what I said, does it? I simply said, what kind of welfare state are we creating.

Sims said:

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If we're considering likely hypotheticals, you've left out a change of behavior as a possibility.

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Bruh, we live in a country full of morons. There won't be any behavior change.

Quote:

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This isn't a thread to argue if abortion is right or wrong. I'm just genuinely wondering what kind of welfare state we are going to create as a result of this ruling.

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A bigger one.
Really, no politician is reducing govt size.

(start sarcasm)

Quote:

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Let's just multiply some numbers here. Take 500,000 unwanted babies, usually in low income areas, and multiply that by 18 years. 18 years from now, you'll have 9,000,000 children 18 years and under that were unwanted AND most of which will be from impoverished backgrounds.

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Shhhh....hush yo mouth!
They will all be adopted by wealthy white people.
They will be more Carlton then Ice Cube.

Quote:

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So, not only are the majority of those minor children going to be receiving welfare, but they are also going to be raised in terrible conditions and many of which will ultimately go on to be criminals (thus becoming wards of the state within a few years of turning 18).

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Listening to the FreakANomics Podcast?

Quote:

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My mind is numb just thinking of the sheer amount of tax dollars that will be devoted to taking care of millions upon millions of unwanted kids growing up in the system or in poverty.

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They chose life.
Life has a price.
Pay up sucka!
We will breed ourselves into prosperity like China, Mexico, y Brazil.

(end sarcasm)


Think of it this way.
The reason we have so many undocumented unskilled workers pouring into our country, not unlike Euro countries, is because we have not been breeding enough of them domestically. We are a nation of 328 million people with 18 million of them being undocumented immigrants while having 5% unemployment. For most Americans born before 2000 this is mind blowing.

RockTXAggie said:

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This isn't a thread to argue if abortion is right or wrong. I'm just genuinely wondering what kind of welfare state we are going to create as a result of this ruling.

Obviously you're still going to be able to attain an abortion in many states. But, let's say instead of an average of 1 million abortions in America each year, there are 500,000. So that means 500,000 babies are born each year that otherwise would have been aborted.

Let's just multiply some numbers here. Take 500,000 unwanted babies, usually in low income areas, and multiply that by 18 years. 18 years from now, you'll have 9,000,000 children 18 years and under that were unwanted AND most of which will be from impoverished backgrounds.

So, not only are the majority of those minor children going to be receiving welfare, but they are also going to be raised in terrible conditions and many of which will ultimately go on to be criminals (thus becoming wards of the state within a few years of turning 18).

My mind is numb just thinking of the sheer amount of tax dollars that will be devoted to taking care of millions upon millions of unwanted kids growing up in the system or in poverty.

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That is just a drop in the bucket compared to illegals crossing our southern border.

That's number comes across the border every three months

I can get caught up in hypotheticals as well but I've typically found that the best course is trust God and do the next right thing. Rinse and repeat.

If we agree that abortion, except in vary narrow circumstances, is wrong then we take the first step, which has been done. Deal with hypotheticals if and when they materialize.

TxTarpon said:

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Think of it this way.
The reason we have so many undocumented unskilled workers pouring into our country, not unlike Euro countries, is because we have not been breeding enough of them domestically. We are a nation of 328 million people with 18 million of them being undocumented immigrants while having 5% unemployment. For most Americans born before 2000 this is mind blowing.

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Thanks, Judge Smails.

The real dollar number you are looking for is the forecasted welfare costs minus saved federal dollars to PlannedParenthood.

Awwwww..... how cute.

Everybody acting like there will actually BE a United States of America in 20 years......

In saner times I would be more than happy to analyze the potential cost of a half a million unwanted children being born in this country a year, that otherwise would be have been aborted.

Considering we have 200,000+ third world illegals crossing the border each month, bringing their kids and clogging our hospitals making thousands more by the day, this argument just doesn't hold the weight it may have used to.

CrottyKid said:

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The real dollar number you are looking for is the forecasted welfare costs minus saved federal dollars to PlannedParenthood.

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You're right. And I don't even know what that figure is to raise just one child from birth to 18 years old.

Either way, I know I'm throwing out hypothetical numbers and nobody knows what the real numbers will be. I just know that it's going to be in the millions and that's scary to me. Not only from a welfare state perspective, but also what will happen when you throw that many people into society that were not wanted in the first place.

It's a scary thought for me, honestly.

RockTXAggie said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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RockTXAggie said:

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This isn't a thread to argue if abortion is right or wrong. I'm just genuinely wondering what kind of welfare state we are going to create as a result of this ruling.

Obviously you're still going to be able to attain an abortion in many states. But, let's say instead of an average of 1 million abortions in America each year, there are 500,000. So that means 500,000 babies are born each year that otherwise would have been aborted.

Let's just multiply some numbers here. Take 500,000 unwanted babies, usually in low income areas, and multiply that by 18 years. 18 years from now, you'll have 9,000,000 children 18 years and under that were unwanted AND most of which will be from impoverished backgrounds.

So, not only are the majority of those minor children going to be receiving welfare, but they are also going to be raised in terrible conditions and many of which will ultimately go on to be criminals (thus becoming wards of the state within a few years of turning 18.

My mind is numb just thinking of the sheer amount of tax dollars that will be devoted to taking care of millions upon millions of unwanted kids growing up in the system or in poverty.

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since we are doing hypotheticals what if one of those 9 million cures cancer? would it be worth it?

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That has nothing to do with what I said, does it? I simply said, what kind of welfare state are we creating.

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Well, none if someone has the vision to require Norplant for every nubile female in a household where EBT or SNAP entitlements are being used.

Maybe people decide to be responsible and 200,000 of those babies are never born because they practice safe sex. As a reward for taking responsibility for their lives they change their ways and become an actual productive member of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 200,000 of the remaining parent realize the gift from God that these babies are and they decide to do any and everything for these babies, knowing they are solely responsible for their health and well-being, they become productive members of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 100,000 of the remaining babies are adopted and go on to lead extremely happy and productive lives, like my wife who was born just before RvW. She probably would have been aborted 6 months later, but instead she was adopted and became the mother of my children. She makes society better with all of her selfless actions.


Hypothetically, what if we had a society that believed in delayed gratification, and did not think they were owed anything? What if people realized that their lives were a reflection of years of decision making? Maybe people would be happier and more fulfilled if they had to work for everything they owned, and lived to raise the next generation of Americans. Could you imagine a world where everyone was happy, and fulfilled, and working hard to raise the best children possible? It's easy if you try.

Sims said:

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If we're considering likely hypotheticals, you've left out a change of behavior as a possibility.

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This. Without a massive safety net, perhaps people might be smarter in using birth control?

One of our welfare programs needs to be offering anyone under 40 years of age $2-3k for permanent irreversible sterilization. Open to everyone who hasn't already had this done, regardless of race or socio economic status. 100% voluntary. Would solve so many of our problems.

Eso si, Que es said:

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Maybe people decide to be responsible and 200,000 of those babies are never born because they practice safe sex. As a reward for taking responsibility for their lives they change their ways and become an actual productive member of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 200,000 of the remaining parent realize the gift from God that these babies are and they decide to do any and everything for these babies, knowing they are solely responsible for their health and well-being, they become productive members of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 100,000 of the remaining babies are adopted and go on to lead extremely happy and productive lives, like my wife who was born just before RvW. She probably would have been aborted 6 months later, but instead she was adopted and became the mother of my children. She makes society better with all of her selfless actions.


Hypothetically, what if we had a society that believed in delayed gratification, and did not think they were owed anything? What if people realized that their lives were a reflection of years of decision making? Maybe people would be happier and more fulfilled if they had to work for everything they owned, and lived to raise the next generation of Americans. Could you imagine a world where everyone was happy, and fulfilled, and working hard to raise the best children possible? It's easy if you try.

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Let's be honest here. Do you REALLY think that impoverished kids growing up in single parent households largely raising themselves are all the sudden going to make responsible life choices?

No, they won't. You know it, and I know it. That goes for kids of all races. Poor people are poor for a reason 99% of the time. It's because they make poor decision after poor decision for generations.

RockTXAggie said:

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Sims said:

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If we're considering likely hypotheticals, you've left out a change of behavior as a possibility.

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Bruh, we live in a country full of morons. There won't be any behavior change.

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The most likely outcome is less tolerance for bad behavior.

We have something like 30 MILLION illegal aliens here. We'll need the additional labor force at some point if we ever hope to do something.

RockTXAggie said:

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Eso si, Que es said:

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Maybe people decide to be responsible and 200,000 of those babies are never born because they practice safe sex. As a reward for taking responsibility for their lives they change their ways and become an actual productive member of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 200,000 of the remaining parent realize the gift from God that these babies are and they decide to do any and everything for these babies, knowing they are solely responsible for their health and well-being, they become productive members of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 100,000 of the remaining babies are adopted and go on to lead extremely happy and productive lives, like my wife who was born just before RvW. She probably would have been aborted 6 months later, but instead she was adopted and became the mother of my children. She makes society better with all of her selfless actions.


Hypothetically, what if we had a society that believed in delayed gratification, and did not think they were owed anything? What if people realized that their lives were a reflection of years of decision making? Maybe people would be happier and more fulfilled if they had to work for everything they owned, and lived to raise the next generation of Americans. Could you imagine a world where everyone was happy, and fulfilled, and working hard to raise the best children possible? It's easy if you try.

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Let's be honest here. Do you REALLY think that impoverished kids growing up in single parent households largely raising themselves are all the sudden going to make responsible life choices?

No, they won't. You know it, and I know it. That goes for kids of all races. Poor people are poor for a reason 99% of the time. It's because they make poor decision after poor decision for generations.

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Single parent households are caused by Democrat policies started in the 60's, remove those policies. At one point in the Great Depression, black families had a LOWER rate of single parents than whites....

The reduction in total abortions will be minimal. I would even bet they'll be higher than current levels in just a matter of years.

Aglaw97 said:

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I can get caught up in hypotheticals as well but I've typically found that the best course is trust God and do the next right thing. Rinse and repeat.

If we agree that abortion, except in vary narrow circumstances, is wrong then we take the first step, which has been done. Deal with hypotheticals if and when they materialize.

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In general, I think you have to go with this reasoning or you will drive your self crazy. I've walked through the OP's thought process before and its mostly pointless or you will just depress yourself with the possibilities.

Looking at it from a positive and practical viewpoint....we are going to need the people. Most of the planet is operating with negative birth rates with no way out other than mass immigration which could arguably be a bit of a zero sum game.

The test will be if we redirect back to a functioning society that values work, free markets, and a shared culture or do we continue down this path of socialist, self-destruction. If it's the former, it will work out well for us to have these people and assume they join that part of society.

If it's the latter, then we are just accelerating our demise. If I had to bet, I would bet on accelerating our demise simply because I think we are a dying empire that will implode. However, hopefully I'm completely wrong and we turn this thing around and purge all of the left.

RockTXAggie said:

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Eso si, Que es said:

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Maybe people decide to be responsible and 200,000 of those babies are never born because they practice safe sex. As a reward for taking responsibility for their lives they change their ways and become an actual productive member of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 200,000 of the remaining parent realize the gift from God that these babies are and they decide to do any and everything for these babies, knowing they are solely responsible for their health and well-being, they become productive members of society, living for a greater good rather than instant gratification.

Maybe 100,000 of the remaining babies are adopted and go on to lead extremely happy and productive lives, like my wife who was born just before RvW. She probably would have been aborted 6 months later, but instead she was adopted and became the mother of my children. She makes society better with all of her selfless actions.


Hypothetically, what if we had a society that believed in delayed gratification, and did not think they were owed anything? What if people realized that their lives were a reflection of years of decision making? Maybe people would be happier and more fulfilled if they had to work for everything they owned, and lived to raise the next generation of Americans. Could you imagine a world where everyone was happy, and fulfilled, and working hard to raise the best children possible? It's easy if you try.

---

Let's be honest here. Do you REALLY think that impoverished kids growing up in single parent households largely raising themselves are all the sudden going to make responsible life choices?

No, they won't. You know it, and I know it. That goes for kids of all races. Poor people are poor for a reason 99% of the time. It's because they make poor decision after poor decision for generations.

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So let's not hold them accountable for their bad decisions and keep pushing society towards instant gratification doctrine? Seems like soft bigotry of low expectations and quasi racist of you to say they have made generation after generation off bad decisions.

RockTXAggie said:

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CrottyKid said:

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The real dollar number you are looking for is the forecasted welfare costs minus saved federal dollars to PlannedParenthood.

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You're right. And I don't even know what that figure is to raise just one child from birth to 18 years old.

Either way, I know I'm throwing out hypothetical numbers and nobody knows what the real numbers will be. I just know that it's going to be in the millions and that's scary to me. Not only from a welfare state perspective, but also what will happen when you throw that many people into society that were not wanted in the first place.

It's a scary thought for me, honestly.

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You seem to assume that all babies who are born are planned and wanted.

Sounds like we'll have to relearn personal responsibility as a society. Oh the horror.

How about individuals stop "giving IT up" after four drinks or meeting someone due to 'swipe right'?

Since welfare screws over the poor, maybe we should eliminate it too. Just like RvW.

Clown Baby said:

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The reduction in total abortions will be minimal. I would even bet they'll be higher than current levels in just a matter of years.

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Higher in absolute numbers or as a % of a certain demographic?

It's an important distinction.

The US, like many western countries, has a low birth problem. We haven't had the same negative population growth issues here due to immigration but its hard to have an expanding economy when your population is decreasing unless there is continual increases to underlying production

Whether we like it or not, the Hispanic immigration has helped the US expand and has prevented a downturn as the Baby Boomers retire. Maybe the same can be said in 30-40 as the millennials start to retire, given a slight population increase due to abortion being made more difficult

RockTXAggie said:

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This isn't a thread to argue if abortion is right or wrong. I'm just genuinely wondering what kind of welfare state we are going to create as a result of this ruling.

Obviously you're still going to be able to attain an abortion in many states. But, let's say instead of an average of 1 million abortions in America each year, there are 500,000. So that means 500,000 babies are born each year that otherwise would have been aborted.

Let's just multiply some numbers here. Take 500,000 unwanted babies, usually in low income areas, and multiply that by 18 years. 18 years from now, you'll have 9,000,000 children 18 years and under that were unwanted AND most of which will be from impoverished backgrounds.

So, not only are the majority of those minor children going to be receiving welfare, but they are also going to be raised in terrible conditions and many of which will ultimately go on to be criminals (thus becoming wards of the state within a few years of turning 18).

My mind is numb just thinking of the sheer amount of tax dollars that will be devoted to taking care of millions upon millions of unwanted kids growing up in the system or in poverty.

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I like hypotheticals: What if those 500,000 Women (who would have had an abortion) - decide not to sleep around and change their behavior. They actually spend more time bettering their life by getting an education or learning a skill. Now we have 500,000 less people on welfare. Seems like a win!

Sims said:

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Clown Baby said:

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The reduction in total abortions will be minimal. I would even bet they'll be higher than current levels in just a matter of years.

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Higher in absolute numbers or as a % of a certain demographic?

It's an important distinction.

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Fair question. I would guess around the same percentages, following the same general trend we have been, whatever that is.

My point is there is such a demand for abortion and people are so used to it as a convenience, that's it's going to happen regardless of whatever State elects to put into law. There's corporate funded travel out of state, abortion pills, illegal abortions, etc. We opened Pandora's box with Roe vs Wade and it can't be closed now.

It's very similar to the idea that you can't just legislate guns away. They are interwoven into our culture. And I'm not saying that's a negative, I'm very pro 2A. But it's odd to me how so many on this board accept the fact that you can't even come close to legislating guns away don't apply that same logic to abortions. They are going to happen regardless.

At this point, abortion can only be dealt with culturally, not legislatively. At least IMO.