Charpie said:

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https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/15/texas-public-records-uvalde-shooting/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_content=1655738089&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Quote:

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In the past week, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has joined the growing list of state and local officials fighting the release of records that could help bring clarity to how the emergency response unfolded during last month's deadly shooting in Uvalde.

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Quote:

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Abbott's office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the U.S. Marshals Service and the city of Uvalde are asking the state's attorney general for permission to withhold records that may offer tangible answers to the contradictory accounts. (Under Texas law, agencies seeking to avoid disclosure of public records typically must make their case to the attorney general.) Other government entities have asked the state for extensions as they decide whether to fight such disclosures. News organizations across the country are reporting similar responses.

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Let's be real clear here. He's working through the Texas public records act and the AG and the TT is not being honest in their reporting. He's not blocking them from the investigation.

AggieLostinDallas said:

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Charpie said:

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https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/15/texas-public-records-uvalde-shooting/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_content=1655738089&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Quote:

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In the past week, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has joined the growing list of state and local officials fighting the release of records that could help bring clarity to how the emergency response unfolded during last month's deadly shooting in Uvalde.

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Quote:

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Abbott's office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the U.S. Marshals Service and the city of Uvalde are asking the state's attorney general for permission to withhold records that may offer tangible answers to the contradictory accounts. (Under Texas law, agencies seeking to avoid disclosure of public records typically must make their case to the attorney general.) Other government entities have asked the state for extensions as they decide whether to fight such disclosures. News organizations across the country are reporting similar responses.

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Let's be real clear here. He's working through the Texas public records act and the AG and the TT is not being honest in their reporting. He's not blocking them from the investigation.

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The Texas Tribune is a George Soros funded propaganda outlet posing as a news outlet.

Rapier108 said:

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AggieLostinDallas said:

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Charpie said:

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https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/15/texas-public-records-uvalde-shooting/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_content=1655738089&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Quote:

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In the past week, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has joined the growing list of state and local officials fighting the release of records that could help bring clarity to how the emergency response unfolded during last month's deadly shooting in Uvalde.

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Quote:

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Abbott's office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the U.S. Marshals Service and the city of Uvalde are asking the state's attorney general for permission to withhold records that may offer tangible answers to the contradictory accounts. (Under Texas law, agencies seeking to avoid disclosure of public records typically must make their case to the attorney general.) Other government entities have asked the state for extensions as they decide whether to fight such disclosures. News organizations across the country are reporting similar responses.

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Let's be real clear here. He's working through the Texas public records act and the AG and the TT is not being honest in their reporting. He's not blocking them from the investigation.

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The Texas Tribune is a George Soros funded propaganda outlet posing as a news outlet.

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Needs to be said again for those who refuse to listen

Ghost91 said:

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I haven't been following this story that closely, but do we know if the police continued to hear gunshots by the killer as they stood in the hallway, or was all his killing done in the first few minutes?

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The timeline on the Twitter post (linked in the OP news article) seems to indicate their were shots coming from the classroom for a large part of the time the police were in the hallway.

rgag12 said:

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So it's been decided Arrendondo is going to be the fall guy.

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Maybe so but about 19 other guys need to go with him.

quoting texas tribune, hahahahahaha

So I'll take that.

Does it make what is being said not true?

In all seriousness, if there are no wholesale law enforcement changes down there, it could backfire on the community over the next several years. Who is going to respect their authority or trust a single LEO in that town? Neither criminal or law abiding citizen. Why should they? How pissed are people going to be when these ultimate cowards who let the towns children die try to pull them over for speeding or expired sticker? I bet some of these people want these cops to suffer or pay for this. How can you effectively police a community like that? At least with high crime urban areas that hate the cops, it's just a small part of a bigger city. This entire town went through this and is painfully familiar with the cowardice of these cops.

They have got to clean slate and rebuild from scratch somehow. And make it known throughout the state that they are hitting reset.

Disclaimer: I am not saying this is fair to every LEO down there. There may be a few who would have charged into that building against orders. But naturally, people are going to paint with a large brush in a case like this.

Making the Arredondo accountable is a start.

What has happened to our culture? Does anyone have a value system anymore?

Charpie said:

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Making the Arredondo accountable is a start.

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From afar, maybe. But to many of the townspeople, I am sure they have zero love for any of the almost 20 cowards that sat by and did nothing as their town's children were murdered, orders or not. And you can't exactly expect people in the wake of something like this to behave entirely rational. Not that wanting to clean house is irrational...I lean towards it obviously. At the very least, they need to find out who the real cowards are and fire them.

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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In all seriousness, if there are no wholesale law enforcement changes down there, it could backfire on the community over the next several years. Who is going to respect their authority or trust a single LEO in that town? Neither criminal or law abiding citizen. Why should they? How pissed are people going to be when these ultimate cowards who let the towns children die tries to pull them over for speeding or expires sticker? I bet some of these people want these cops to suffer or pay for this. How can you effectively police a community like that? At least with high crime urban areas that hate the cops, it's just a small part of a bigger city. This entire town went through this and is painfully familiar with the cowardice of these cops.

They have got to clean slate and rebuild from scratch somehow. And make it known throughout the state that they are hitting reset.

Disclaimer: I am not saying this is fair to every LEO down there. There may be a few who would have charged into that building against orders. But naturally, people are going to paint with a large brush in a case like this.

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Underrated post.

This incident doesn't just stultify the citizen -Pd social construct in Uvalde, it does so everywhere.

How the hell is anyone going to trust local le when this happens again? Yes ...'when'.

And what then?

Knowing what is now known, there is no chance parents are going to be simply tazed or otherwise subdued.

And say you are a kid who has to go to a public school. What now? How do you not get anxiety thinking pd can't or won't save you when this kind of incident happens?

Charpie said:

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So I'll take that.

Does it make what is being said not true?

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You said Abbott was impeding the investigation.
He's not. He's trying to let DPS do their job.
Soros/TT drivel is mad bc their Requests aren't being granted.

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Charpie said:

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Making the Arredondo accountable is a start.

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From afar, maybe. But to many of the townspeople, I am sure they have zero love for any of the almost 20 cowards that sat by and did nothing as their town's children were murdered, orders or not. And you can't exactly expect people in the wake of something like this to behave entirely rational. Not that wanting to clean house is irrational...I lean towards it obviously. At the very least, they need to find out who the real cowards are and fire them.

---

If you read the information in the OP, 19 cops did not stand bye and do nothing. Some of them, because they were just in the hallway (you don't need 19 cops to stand by the room 111/112 doors) evacuated the rest of the school. Either by orders from someone, or their own initiative.

The timeline says 12 police were in the hallway less than 12m after the shooter was inside the classroom. Lots of talking, noise, chaos going on. Seven BP agents entered the school ~20m after the shooter went into the classroom. If your one of the 19, and the guy in charge says "we have a barricaded/hostage situation" and you realize you have no role there, you then realize evacuating the rest of the rooms is a good idea, that's not "sat by and did nothing". In fact on the recordings/timeline, they believe the shooter is in an office, not a classroom.

At least one officer can be heard saying he is going to clear the rest of the classrooms and more officers obviously did that since the school was being evacuated before the shooter was killed. Saying all 19 should hung, have their life be turned upside down is wrong. None of us were there and despite all the information that's out there, it's not 100% clear what happened and what all the officers were doing for the 1+ hour.

Yes, the Chief obviously made a horrible mistake that cost children's their lives, but to say all 19 are to blame is just wrong. In fact one officer (UCISD officer Rubin Ruiz) is in the hallway was the spouse of a teacher whom had been shot (and he even says so on the recordings). Does he deserve the vitrol and hate from the town too? Do we all think he was just standing in the hallway waiting for orders or was he chomping at the bit to break in a get to the shooter?

Headline: Officer husband of slain Uvalde teacher was detained, had gun taken away after trying to save wife:

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/06/21/officer-husband-of-slain-uvalde-teacher-was-detained-had-gun-taken-away-after-trying-to-save-wife/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=ksat12&fbclid=IwAR01EzhyMtU1J_B4DXKr_blRf9g4bNc-Rtr3Jw8n1TQt_pn6oGlEX9nXGz8&fs=e&s=cl

They all should be fired right now. Some of them should be arrested.

AggieLostinDallas said:

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Charpie said:

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So I'll take that.

Does it make what is being said not true?

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You said Abbott was impeding the investigation.
He's not. He's trying to let DPS do their job.
Soros/TT drivel is mad bc their Requests aren't being granted.

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What the TT wants is pictures and video of the bodies of dead kids. CNN and multiple other outlets have said it is time to use pictures of dead kids to advance the anti-gun agenda.

BlackLab said:

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Headline: Officer husband of slain Uvalde teacher was detained, had gun taken away after trying to save wife:

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/06/21/officer-husband-of-slain-uvalde-teacher-was-detained-had-gun-taken-away-after-trying-to-save-wife/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=ksat12&fbclid=IwAR01EzhyMtU1J_B4DXKr_blRf9g4bNc-Rtr3Jw8n1TQt_pn6oGlEX9nXGz8&fs=e&s=cl

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Seriously how much WORSE can this get!

Rapier108 said:

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AggieLostinDallas said:

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Charpie said:

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So I'll take that.

Does it make what is being said not true?

---

You said Abbott was impeding the investigation.
He's not. He's trying to let DPS do their job.
Soros/TT drivel is mad bc their Requests aren't being granted.

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What the TT wants is pictures and video of the bodies of dead kids. CNN and multiple other outlets have said it is time to use pictures of dead kids to advance the anti-gun agenda.

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Release can happen without those. That's not the issue!
A case of extreme negligence which should have never happened is being used by anti 2nd amendment activists!

The video should be released which would prove this should have never happened for what seems about a 100 examples of systemic failure!!

agracer said:

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Ghost91 said:

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I haven't been following this story that closely, but do we know if the police continued to hear gunshots by the killer as they stood in the hallway, or was all his killing done in the first few minutes?

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The timeline on the Twitter post (linked in the OP news article) seems to indicate their were shots coming from the classroom for a large part of the time the police were in the hallway.

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That's inexcusable.

agracer said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Charpie said:

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Making the Arredondo accountable is a start.

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From afar, maybe. But to many of the townspeople, I am sure they have zero love for any of the almost 20 cowards that sat by and did nothing as their town's children were murdered, orders or not. And you can't exactly expect people in the wake of something like this to behave entirely rational. Not that wanting to clean house is irrational...I lean towards it obviously. At the very least, they need to find out who the real cowards are and fire them.

---

If you read the information in the OP, 19 cops did not stand bye and do nothing. Some of them, because they were just in the hallway (you don't need 19 cops to stand by the room 111/112 doors) evacuated the rest of the school. Either by orders from someone, or their own initiative.

The timeline says 12 police were in the hallway less than 12m after the shooter was inside the classroom. Lots of talking, noise, chaos going on. Seven BP agents entered the school ~20m after the shooter went into the classroom. If your one of the 19, and the guy in charge says "we have a barricaded/hostage situation" and you realize you have no role there, you then realize evacuating the rest of the rooms is a good idea, that's not "sat by and did nothing". In fact on the recordings/timeline, they believe the shooter is in an office, not a classroom.

At least one officer can be heard saying he is going to clear the rest of the classrooms and more officers obviously did that since the school was being evacuated before the shooter was killed. Saying all 19 should hung, have their life be turned upside down is wrong. None of us were there and despite all the information that's out there, it's not 100% clear what happened and what all the officers were doing for the 1+ hour.

Yes, the Chief obviously made a horrible mistake that cost children's their lives, but to say all 19 are to blame is just wrong. In fact one officer (UCISD officer Rubin Ruiz) is in the hallway was the spouse of a teacher whom had been shot (and he even says so on the recordings). Does he deserve the vitrol and hate from the town too? Do we all think he was just standing in the hallway waiting for orders or was he chomping at the bit to break in a get to the shooter?

---

This is a very reasonable post. Good reminder that the further removed you are from anything, the murkier the details get...like a game of telephone...only in real life situations, you can't rely on all actors (like the media) to at least try to be honest and relay the pertinent info.

Ultimately, from afar, it's just simply hard to grapple with the fact that the psycho has so long to kill innocent children. If just a handful of officers had half of the blind fury and desperation of the mother who stormed in to rescue her child, it seems like innocent lives certainly would have been saved. That being said, an additional officer or two may have been injured or worse.

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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agracer said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Charpie said:

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Making the Arredondo accountable is a start.

---

From afar, maybe. But to many of the townspeople, I am sure they have zero love for any of the almost 20 cowards that sat by and did nothing as their town's children were murdered, orders or not. And you can't exactly expect people in the wake of something like this to behave entirely rational. Not that wanting to clean house is irrational...I lean towards it obviously. At the very least, they need to find out who the real cowards are and fire them.

---

If you read the information in the OP, 19 cops did not stand bye and do nothing. Some of them, because they were just in the hallway (you don't need 19 cops to stand by the room 111/112 doors) evacuated the rest of the school. Either by orders from someone, or their own initiative.

The timeline says 12 police were in the hallway less than 12m after the shooter was inside the classroom. Lots of talking, noise, chaos going on. Seven BP agents entered the school ~20m after the shooter went into the classroom. If your one of the 19, and the guy in charge says "we have a barricaded/hostage situation" and you realize you have no role there, you then realize evacuating the rest of the rooms is a good idea, that's not "sat by and did nothing". In fact on the recordings/timeline, they believe the shooter is in an office, not a classroom.

At least one officer can be heard saying he is going to clear the rest of the classrooms and more officers obviously did that since the school was being evacuated before the shooter was killed. Saying all 19 should hung, have their life be turned upside down is wrong. None of us were there and despite all the information that's out there, it's not 100% clear what happened and what all the officers were doing for the 1+ hour.

Yes, the Chief obviously made a horrible mistake that cost children's their lives, but to say all 19 are to blame is just wrong. In fact one officer (UCISD officer Rubin Ruiz) is in the hallway was the spouse of a teacher whom had been shot (and he even says so on the recordings). Does he deserve the vitrol and hate from the town too? Do we all think he was just standing in the hallway waiting for orders or was he chomping at the bit to break in a get to the shooter?

---

This is a very reasonable post. Good reminder that the further removed you are from anything, the murkier the details get...like a game of telephone...only in real life situations, you can't rely on all actors (like the media) to at least try to be honest and relay the pertinent info.

Ultimately, from afar, it's just simply hard to grapple with the fact that the psycho has so long to kill innocent children. If just a handful of officers had half of the blind fury and desperation of the mother who stormed in to rescue her child, it seems like innocent lives certainly would have been saved. That being said, an additional officer or two may have been injured or worse.

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They disarmed and then detained Ruben when he tried to save his wife. That reads bad regardless of what the other 18 were doing.

They didn't need to break in. Just open the door and go.

I was referring to one specific type of video/image that should not be released despite the media wanting it for political reasons. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope the guilt and shame eats up every one of these cowards for the rest of their miserable lives

AggieLostinDallas said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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agracer said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Charpie said:

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Making the Arredondo accountable is a start.

---

From afar, maybe. But to many of the townspeople, I am sure they have zero love for any of the almost 20 cowards that sat by and did nothing as their town's children were murdered, orders or not. And you can't exactly expect people in the wake of something like this to behave entirely rational. Not that wanting to clean house is irrational...I lean towards it obviously. At the very least, they need to find out who the real cowards are and fire them.

---

If you read the information in the OP, 19 cops did not stand bye and do nothing. Some of them, because they were just in the hallway (you don't need 19 cops to stand by the room 111/112 doors) evacuated the rest of the school. Either by orders from someone, or their own initiative.

The timeline says 12 police were in the hallway less than 12m after the shooter was inside the classroom. Lots of talking, noise, chaos going on. Seven BP agents entered the school ~20m after the shooter went into the classroom. If your one of the 19, and the guy in charge says "we have a barricaded/hostage situation" and you realize you have no role there, you then realize evacuating the rest of the rooms is a good idea, that's not "sat by and did nothing". In fact on the recordings/timeline, they believe the shooter is in an office, not a classroom.

At least one officer can be heard saying he is going to clear the rest of the classrooms and more officers obviously did that since the school was being evacuated before the shooter was killed. Saying all 19 should hung, have their life be turned upside down is wrong. None of us were there and despite all the information that's out there, it's not 100% clear what happened and what all the officers were doing for the 1+ hour.

Yes, the Chief obviously made a horrible mistake that cost children's their lives, but to say all 19 are to blame is just wrong. In fact one officer (UCISD officer Rubin Ruiz) is in the hallway was the spouse of a teacher whom had been shot (and he even says so on the recordings). Does he deserve the vitrol and hate from the town too? Do we all think he was just standing in the hallway waiting for orders or was he chomping at the bit to break in a get to the shooter?

---

This is a very reasonable post. Good reminder that the further removed you are from anything, the murkier the details get...like a game of telephone...only in real life situations, you can't rely on all actors (like the media) to at least try to be honest and relay the pertinent info.

Ultimately, from afar, it's just simply hard to grapple with the fact that the psycho has so long to kill innocent children. If just a handful of officers had half of the blind fury and desperation of the mother who stormed in to rescue her child, it seems like innocent lives certainly would have been saved. That being said, an additional officer or two may have been injured or worse.

---

They disarmed and then detained Ruben when he tried to save his wife. That reads bad regardless of what the other 18 were doing.

---

.

Didn't even know an officer had a wife/teacher present until today and now reading this makes me want to redact my whole post…

ABATTBQ11 said:

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AgNav93 said:

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That Arredondo guy looks like a giant POS. How he could continue to live in that town is beyond me. Have you no shame?

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The real question is how he survives. There were times in history where these guys would have been massacred for this kind of cowardice.

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Or would be so overwhelmed with shame they take their own life. Seems he is more interested in the cover up

Charpie said:

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captkirk said:

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Quote:

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How anybody continues to defend these guys is beyond me.

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Is anyone really still defending this?

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The only folks wanting to keep this quiet is Abbott and his cronies. They have filed multiple motions to keep information under wraps with Paxton.

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You slandered the Governor (and his cronies- whoever they are). I asked you to support your claim. You have yet to do so. Posting a link to an outlet looking to sensationalize a tragedy while supporting a Leftist agenda does not meet the test. Perhaps you might just apologize and edit your post and refrain from shooting from the hip, as you are want to do.

baron_von_awesome said:

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• No security footage from inside the school showed police officers attempting to open the doors to classrooms 111 and 112, which were connected by an adjoining door. Arredondo told the Tribune that he tried to open one door and another group of officers tried to open another, but that the door was reinforced and impenetrable. Those attempts were not caught in the footage reviewed by the Tribune. Some law enforcement officials are skeptical that the doors were ever locked.

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This testimony says that the classroom doors can't be locked from the inside. Only from the outside by a teacher with a key.

Also, the outside doors weren't locked, and could have been easily bypassed if they were. There was unprotected glass that could have been easily shot out, and then the shooter could easily reach the bar to open it.

96AgGrad said:

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baron_von_awesome said:

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• No security footage from inside the school showed police officers attempting to open the doors to classrooms 111 and 112, which were connected by an adjoining door. Arredondo told the Tribune that he tried to open one door and another group of officers tried to open another, but that the door was reinforced and impenetrable. Those attempts were not caught in the footage reviewed by the Tribune. Some law enforcement officials are skeptical that the doors were ever locked.

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This testimony says that the classroom doors can't be locked from the inside. Only from the outside by a teacher with a key.

Also, the outside doors weren't locked, and could have been easily bypassed if they were. There was unprotected glass that could have been easily shot out, and then the shooter could easily reach the bar to open it.

---

. That makes no sense at all. I can see where they would lock from the inside or lock automatically when closed (but can still open from the inside). But locking from outside would be a fire code violation. I'm skeptical this is true.

Also, that women who went in to her her kids (posted last week) the teacher in one room would not open the door until the cops showed up at her kids' room. Then the teacher opened the door so the police could escort the class out of the school.

The only lock mechanism was hallway side key selector. It is free exit from inside with a push bar. Cannot be locked inside.

Fiduciary said:

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The only lock mechanism was hallway side key selector. It is free exit from inside with a push bar. Cannot be locked inside.

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That kind of seems dumb in light of Columbine. Wasn't one of the lessons learned was for teachers to be able to lock the doors and keep the shooter/threat OUT of the room?

DPS head on his homecourt in Austin, talking to people that approve his funding, throws everyone but his guys under the bus. Yeah, I believe him.

agracer said:

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Fiduciary said:

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The only lock mechanism was hallway side key selector. It is free exit from inside with a push bar. Cannot be locked inside.

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That kind of seems dumb in light of Columbine. Wasn't one of the lessons learned was for teachers to be able to lock the doors and keep the shooter/threat OUT of the room?

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The school policy apparently is that all classroom doors are to be locked during class, which refuses uninvited entry from hallway but allows free exit from classroom. The testimony yesterday is that the first classroom was not locked at all. This aligns with comments made by a surviving child that the teacher went to lock the door where she was met by the gunman and executed as first victim. Teacher was in violation of policy. Same thing happened at the exterior door where gunman entered the school. The door was shut by a teacher who had propped it open with a rock, but it was not locked per school policy. At least one other exterior door also was unlocked.

Same testimony, the second classroom door was in the locked position, but the latch bolt and strike plate were misaligned and thus it would not catch and could be pulled open even if the lever arm were not rotated. So the exterior (hallway) control of the door is a L-shaped handle that must be rotated to move the latch bolt. It was not made not clear if the handle rotates in lock position, but I suspect that it does not. Hence, LEO sneaks up to door and applies a little pressure to handle which doesn't move and then reports that door is locked and they need a key. However, if LEO had pulled on the handle the door would have freely swung open. The teacher previously had reported the faulty operation but it had not yet been repaired. This teacher survived multiple gunshots by playing dead, and it was in his (second) classroom where shooter hid behind the teacher's desk as victims lay dead or dying. The shooter entered second classroom from first classroom via a shared and unlocked interior door. It is not clear where the third teacher was shot and bled out (the wife of police officer who called her husband but he was removed from the scene upon arrival).

So, much like the shooter, no keys or hooligan were needed by LEO to gain entry to the school or either classroom.

Can you link where your seeing this information?

Thanks