Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

Yep let's defund the school police …….

Idiots

I'd be okay with locals having a choice.

If they don't want a security presence within the school, and choose to be the softest target, why try to tell them they are wrong?

TexasRebel said:

---

I'd be okay with locals having a choice.

If they don't want a security presence within the school, and choose to be the softest target, why try to tell them they are wrong?

---

I think the motivation is to allow mass killings in order to move the needle on making guns illegal. That's the only reason I'm concerned.

Otherwise, I'm totally OK with their choice. Heck, get rid of locks on your classroom doors too. Whatever floats your boat!

"Students of color"

Just say non-white kids, AP. It's easier.

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

nai06 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

---

So a crime that wasn't identified as a crime before because it was handled by staff is now identified as a crime and that increases crime?

Lol, only in the mind of a lib does that make sense.

Like I said, you are free to get rid of cops in your school. I hope you do. Good luck.

They don't increase crime. They increase enforcement of laws against crime. They increase notice anc acknowledgement of crime instead of allowing it yo be ignored, to fester, and become an accepted culture in the academic environment that distracts from education and creates lasting harm as these kids go out into the non-education world anc some of them practice the same behaviors with much more dire consequences.

Some things can and are handled administratively, but not everything should be ignored because it "might get some kids a criminal record". Well, maybe a few of them need it, and maybe a few more will be prevented from batting that far.

Ask their parents. Most of them want security.

nai06 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

---

Strongly disagree! I went to a low income high school with a heavy police presence. There was a lot of violent students and the police were absolutely necessary for the safety of the teachers and students. We had a lot of the trench coat mafia weirdos there at the time as well.

As far as school shootings, leaving schools soft targets (aka gun free zones) is clearly not working. I like the idea of veteran based security forces instead of cops since so many cops are apparently pansies. Have them train alongside border patrol forces since they seem to see more action than any of our other LEO forces.

How about setting guidelines on when they are to intervene.

Also, if something criminal happens at school around other kids, it should be dealt with.

TexasRebel said:

---

I'd be okay with locals having a choice.

If they don't want a security presence within the school, and choose to be the softest target, why try to tell them they are wrong?

---

Agree, though you can see the headlines now "School gun violence, assaults and drug related crimes disproportionately affect schools with students of color - we must have more funding for counselors and alternative programs for the most marginalized among us!".

The liberal plantation owners have this game "master"-ed.

I used to hate the deputy doofus school cop when I was in high school too


I guess I was a student of color too

nai06 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.police and become a criminal matter.

---

---

I hope that clarifies things for you.

---

I don't have the words to describe how incredibly idiotic this statement is.

Marcus Brutus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

---

So a crime that wasn't identified as a crime before because it was handled by staff is now identified as a crime and that increases crime?

Lol, only in the mind of a lib does that make sense.

Like I said, you are free to get rid of cops in your school. I hope you do. Good luck.

---

He's saying that "Its only a crime if you get caught."

Its a great worldview to have and it TOTALLY won't lead to societal deterioration or disregard for the rule of law at all.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

---

So a crime that wasn't identified as a crime before because it was handled by staff is now identified as a crime and that increases crime?

Lol, only in the mind of a lib does that make sense.

Like I said, you are free to get rid of cops in your school. I hope you do. Good luck.

---

He's saying that "Its only a crime if you get caught."

Its a great worldview to have and it TOTALLY won't lead to societal deterioration or disregard for the rule of law at all.

---

Really makes you wonder what someone that thinks like this tries to get away with when transporting people to polls to vote.

If their previous experiences with polices weren't from breaking the law, they'd be a lot less uneasy about it

nai06 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

---

Tell me you want kids murdered in schools so that you can crack down on the 2A without telling me that you want kids murdered in schools so that you can crack down on the 2A

Steve Kerr. The biggest crybaby about gun control. Is also the biggest cry baby about cops. **** these morons, don't give in. They don't deserve debate.

nai06 - Thomas Sowell, it takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance".

Mark Twain, "it is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".

Give some considerable thought to the comments of the above wise persons before injecting your brain.

Fenrir said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

---

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

---

Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

---

So a crime that wasn't identified as a crime before because it was handled by staff is now identified as a crime and that increases crime?

Lol, only in the mind of a lib does that make sense.

Like I said, you are free to get rid of cops in your school. I hope you do. Good luck.

---

He's saying that "Its only a crime if you get caught."

Its a great worldview to have and it TOTALLY won't lead to societal deterioration or disregard for the rule of law at all.

---

Really makes you wonder what someone that thinks like this tries to get away with when transporting people to polls to vote.

---

So you have a problem with giving someone a ride to go vote?

Bobcat-Ag said:

---

How about setting guidelines on when they are to intervene.

Also, if something criminal happens at school around other kids, it should be dealt with.

---

I agree with both of these statements. In my experience the first is rarely practiced. Schools would be far better off with unarmed security guards than armed police. Ultimately what ends up happening is that actual police are used to enforce school policy instead of just the law. You begin to criminalize actions that would not be a crime except for the fact a police officer is involved. If a student is being unruly and needs to be escorted to the office, previously that would be handled by an admin or security guard. But if a police officer does it and the student refuses to go, they are now disobeying the legal commands of a peace officer and can be referred to a local prosecutor. In 2013, the law in Texas was changed to prevent cops from writing tickets on the spot for stuff like that or generic disruption of public classes tickets. They can still refer violations to the local prosecutor and let them press charges.


I think I probably have more hands on experience than most people on this board in this area. I teach at a title 1 school that has seen increasing violence and behavior issues largely because of poor leadership by the principal. Just in this year alone we've had 10+ lockdowns, student assaults on teacher/admin/police, loaded guns in school, knives/machetes in school, bomb threats, shooting threats, 3 student involved shootings during the lunch period (all across the street from school) and so many fights I couldn't possibly keep track. We average 4-6 SROs on campus and it hasn't helped quell any of the problems on my campus.

Take for example student assaults on teachers. I was assaulted 3 times this past semester and twice last fall. In every case aside from the last one (student broke my toe), I was assaulted while trying to stop students from fighting. I wasn't the source of their aggression but got punched, kicked, and knocked down several times.

I would have liked to have pressed charges in some of those cases because I believe there should be consequences. But I found myself faced with a conundrum. Because of a change in law, there's no option to charge a student with a simple assault. It's automatically a 3rd degree felony in Texas. I have a real hard time hanging a felony on a student who accident hit me when they were trying to fight another student.

Violence in schools and school shootings are a complex issue that isn't going to be solved by a single solution. We have increasingly placed more and more cops into schools and crime within schools and school shootings have not decreased. I think it's worth taking a look at other options that don't involve more cops in schools.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

They don't increase crime. They increase enforcement of laws against crime. They increase notice anc acknowledgement of crime instead of allowing it yo be ignored, to fester, and become an accepted culture in the academic environment that distracts from education and creates lasting harm as these kids go out into the non-education world anc some of them practice the same behaviors with much more dire consequences.

Some things can and are handled administratively, but not everything should be ignored because it "might get some kids a criminal record". Well, maybe a few of them need it, and maybe a few more will be prevented from batting that far.

Ask their parents. Most of them want security.

---

nai06 said:

---

Bobcat-Ag said:

---

How about setting guidelines on when they are to intervene.

Also, if something criminal happens at school around other kids, it should be dealt with.

---

I agree with both of these statements. In my experience the first is rarely practiced. Schools would be far better off with unarmed security guards than armed police. Ultimately what ends up happening is that actual police are used to enforce school policy instead of just the law. You begin to criminalize actions that would not be a crime except for the fact a police officer is involved. If a student is being unruly and needs to be escorted to the office, previously that would be handled by an admin or security guard. But if a police officer does it and the student refuses to go, they are now disobeying the legal commands of a peace officer and can be referred to a local prosecutor. In 2013, the law in Texas was changed to prevent cops from writing tickets on the spot for stuff like that or generic disruption of public classes tickets. They can still refer violations to the local prosecutor and let them press charges.


I think I probably have more hands on experience than most people on this board in this area. I teach at a title 1 school that has seen increasing violence and behavior issues largely because of poor leadership by the principal. Just in this year alone we've had 10+ lockdowns, student assaults on teacher/admin/police, loaded guns in school, knives/machetes in school, bomb threats, shooting threats, 3 student involved shootings during the lunch period (all across the street from school) and so many fights I couldn't possibly keep track. We average 4-6 SROs on campus and it hasn't helped quell any of the problems on my campus.

Take for example student assaults on teachers. I was assaulted 3 times this past semester and twice last fall. In every case aside from the last one (student broke my toe), I was assaulted while trying to stop students from fighting. I wasn't the source of their aggression but got punched, kicked, and knocked down several times.

I would have liked to have pressed charges in some of those cases because I believe there should be consequences. But I found myself faced with a conundrum. Because of a change in law, there's no option to charge a student with a simple assault. It's automatically a 3rd degree felony in Texas. I have a real hard time hanging a felony on a student who accident hit me when they were trying to fight another student.

Violence in schools and school shootings are a complex issue that isn't going to be solved by a single solution. We have increasingly placed more and more cops into schools and crime within schools and school shootings have not decreased. I think it's worth taking a look at other options that don't involve more cops in schools.

---

I appreciate your opinion, as it seems you're definitely dealing with these things first hand.

Genuinely curious about the bolded portion above though....If a student is willing to refuse the orders of a police officer, what would an administrator or unarmed security officer have done differently to get the student to comply? Wouldn't they just continue to be unruly and a potential threat to other students and faculty?

Baron von Bulsh said:

---

nai06 said:

---

Bobcat-Ag said:

---

How about setting guidelines on when they are to intervene.

Also, if something criminal happens at school around other kids, it should be dealt with.

---

I agree with both of these statements. In my experience the first is rarely practiced. Schools would be far better off with unarmed security guards than armed police. Ultimately what ends up happening is that actual police are used to enforce school policy instead of just the law. You begin to criminalize actions that would not be a crime except for the fact a police officer is involved. If a student is being unruly and needs to be escorted to the office, previously that would be handled by an admin or security guard. But if a police officer does it and the student refuses to go, they are now disobeying the legal commands of a peace officer and can be referred to a local prosecutor. In 2013, the law in Texas was changed to prevent cops from writing tickets on the spot for stuff like that or generic disruption of public classes tickets. They can still refer violations to the local prosecutor and let them press charges.


I think I probably have more hands on experience than most people on this board in this area. I teach at a title 1 school that has seen increasing violence and behavior issues largely because of poor leadership by the principal. Just in this year alone we've had 10+ lockdowns, student assaults on teacher/admin/police, loaded guns in school, knives/machetes in school, bomb threats, shooting threats, 3 student involved shootings during the lunch period (all across the street from school) and so many fights I couldn't possibly keep track. We average 4-6 SROs on campus and it hasn't helped quell any of the problems on my campus.

Take for example student assaults on teachers. I was assaulted 3 times this past semester and twice last fall. In every case aside from the last one (student broke my toe), I was assaulted while trying to stop students from fighting. I wasn't the source of their aggression but got punched, kicked, and knocked down several times.

I would have liked to have pressed charges in some of those cases because I believe there should be consequences. But I found myself faced with a conundrum. Because of a change in law, there's no option to charge a student with a simple assault. It's automatically a 3rd degree felony in Texas. I have a real hard time hanging a felony on a student who accident hit me when they were trying to fight another student.

Violence in schools and school shootings are a complex issue that isn't going to be solved by a single solution. We have increasingly placed more and more cops into schools and crime within schools and school shootings have not decreased. I think it's worth taking a look at other options that don't involve more cops in schools.

---

I appreciate your opinion, as it seems you're definitely dealing with these things first hand.

Genuinely curious about the bolded portion above though....If a student is willing to refuse the orders of a police officer, what would an administrator or unarmed security officer have done differently to get the student to comply? Wouldn't they just continue to be unruly and a potential threat to other students and faculty?

---

They already refused to comply with staff, thus the reason the cop has become involved. I suppose he wants to make it a non-crime for students to not obey orders once escalated to an LEO on the campus. That teaches the juvi that they can disobey cops and that it's OK. That'll work out real well once they turn 18. Look at all the resisting of arrest that happens now with minorities, which is a direct effect of the rhetoric of libs that tells them they are victims and cops are bad.

nai06 said:

---

Bobcat-Ag said:

---

How about setting guidelines on when they are to intervene.

Also, if something criminal happens at school around other kids, it should be dealt with.

---

I agree with both of these statements. In my experience the first is rarely practiced. Schools would be far better off with unarmed security guards than armed police. Ultimately what ends up happening is that actual police are used to enforce school policy instead of just the law. You begin to criminalize actions that would not be a crime except for the fact a police officer is involved. If a student is being unruly and needs to be escorted to the office, previously that would be handled by an admin or security guard. But if a police officer does it and the student refuses to go, they are now disobeying the legal commands of a peace officer and can be referred to a local prosecutor. In 2013, the law in Texas was changed to prevent cops from writing tickets on the spot for stuff like that or generic disruption of public classes tickets. They can still refer violations to the local prosecutor and let them press charges.


I think I probably have more hands on experience than most people on this board in this area. I teach at a title 1 school that has seen increasing violence and behavior issues largely because of poor leadership by the principal. Just in this year alone we've had 10+ lockdowns, student assaults on teacher/admin/police, loaded guns in school, knives/machetes in school, bomb threats, shooting threats, 3 student involved shootings during the lunch period (all across the street from school) and so many fights I couldn't possibly keep track. We average 4-6 SROs on campus and it hasn't helped quell any of the problems on my campus.

Take for example student assaults on teachers. I was assaulted 3 times this past semester and twice last fall. In every case aside from the last one (student broke my toe), I was assaulted while trying to stop students from fighting. I wasn't the source of their aggression but got punched, kicked, and knocked down several times.

I would have liked to have pressed charges in some of those cases because I believe there should be consequences. But I found myself faced with a conundrum. Because of a change in law, there's no option to charge a student with a simple assault. It's automatically a 3rd degree felony in Texas. I have a real hard time hanging a felony on a student who accident hit me when they were trying to fight another student.

Violence in schools and school shootings are a complex issue that isn't going to be solved by a single solution. We have increasingly placed more and more cops into schools and crime within schools and school shootings have not decreased. I think it's worth taking a look at other options that don't involve more cops in schools.

---

That student should be charged with a felony. His wayward punch today is an accidental shooting against bystander tomorrow.

Good friend is an assistant principal at a "low income" middle school. Pulling officers out of his school would be an absolute disaster and anyone advocating otherwise has zero experience dealing with the reality of schooling certain cultures.

There are more obtuse statements in this thread than a damned geometry class.

The kid hollering "Why?" Knows completely why he is being drug away. If you have been around thugs and bullies they are real tough until they get their ass in a sling. Then they turn it around to where they are victim when they are faced with consequences. Don't believe one minute of their tirade. But "ditnt do nufin " is a learned response, it is their get out of jail card, it works in their families and administrators who don't want to get sued or accused of racism. But when they cross the line and do a jail offense, they know, and scream louder.
Some even love the attention.

Fair question.

If for example you have an unarmed security guard who comes to escort that student to the office and the student refuses or even resists, no crime has been committed.

When dealing with students and minors specifically, I don't think everything has to be treated as a criminal offense. That doesn't mean I don't think there should be consequences for actions. But the sooner and more often children have interactions with the police, the more likely they are to has those interactions and as a result a criminal record as an adult.

What if instead of just charging students with a crime we attempted to sit them down and explain the potential consequences of their actions and the implications of their behavior? Does that require more effort and buy in from school staff? Absolutely. Will it always work? Nope. But I feel like we have to at least try. We should actually give a **** about these kids instead of just washing our hands of them and dumping them into the criminal justice system.

It should come as no surprise that this is personal to me for a variety of reasons. For one, I was that **** up of a kid when I was younger. I was the worst all through elementary school and junior high. I was quick to settle all my disagreements with fists, spent numerous days in on campus suspension, hell I once locked my elementary principal on the roof of the school (she was stuck for like two hours). I think my life would be very different had I been handed over to law enforcement each as opposed to school administered consequences. I also had a few teachers along the way that refused to give up on me.

Ultimately these students are minors. They are going to screw up and fail in numerous ways along the way. I don't think we should be treating them like adults when they aren't adults (in most cases). I'm sure there are others like myself who can look back on their early education experience and find examples of when they also screwed up but were given some grace and not charged with a crime.

As I said before, it's a complicated issue that isn't going to have a single solution. But at least from where I stand, more cops in schools isn't working. So maybe we should try something else.

nai06 said:

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I would have liked to have pressed charges in some of those cases because I believe there should be consequences. But I found myself faced with a conundrum. Because of a change in law, there's no option to charge a student with a simple assault. It's automatically a 3rd degree felony in Texas. I have a real hard time hanging a felony on a student who accident hit me when they were trying to fight another student

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There is an accountability problem in your school and some of it lands on your shoulders. If a couple kids were to see significant time in Juvie, it might actually reduce the number of fights on campus, or at least move them off campus so as not to disrupt the learning environment for the students that actually care to be there.

If you're worried about students having a record, don't. Most minors will see their records expunged when they turn 18 and few will actually ever see a felony after they get done negotiating a plea.

I don't mean to be an ass, but with 5 fights breaking out in your presence, do you think the other students view you as more or less of an authority in your own classroom?

If your principal isn't doing their job, show some leadership and work with other teachers on your hall to enforce your own rules. If your principal is as weak of a leader as you seem to imply, they would likely try to take credit for any success you achieve.

lb3 said:

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nai06 said:

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I would have liked to have pressed charges in some of those cases because I believe there should be consequences. But I found myself faced with a conundrum. Because of a change in law, there's no option to charge a student with a simple assault. It's automatically a 3rd degree felony in Texas. I have a real hard time hanging a felony on a student who accident hit me when they were trying to fight another student

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There is an accountability problem in your school and some of it lands on your shoulders. If a couple kids were to see significant time in Juvie, it might actually reduce the number of fights on campus, or at least move them off campus so as not to disrupt the learning environment for the students that actually care to be there.

If you're worried about students having a record, don't. Most minors will see their records expunged when they turn 18 and few will actually ever see a felony after they get done negotiating a plea.

I don't mean to be an ass, but with 5 fights breaking out in your presence, do you think the other students view you as more or less of an authority in your own classroom?

If your principal isn't doing their job, show some leadership and work with other teachers on your hall to enforce your own rules. If your principal is as weak of a leader as you seem to imply, they would likely try to take credit for any success you achieve.

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Again in theory the felony goes away. In practice I don't see that happen. Probation terms are notoriously difficult for these students to complete. Just getting into another fight with a student could violate their probation (even if they didn't start it). That doesn't mean other students at different schools have the same experience. I'm sure there are other cases where probation is possible. I can only speak to what I see first hand in my school community. And again, I don't believe an errant punch should be a felony.

Of those 5 assaults none involved my students or happened in my classroom. They occurred in the hallways during class or passing periods and I happened to be the closest or in some cases only adult around. I don't have behavioral problems in my class. In the past 5 years I think I've had to write maybe 3 or 4 office referrals for one of my students and those were almost always in regards to cheating on a test. Do things always go smoothly? Hell no. I've had several near fights between students. But I've managed to diffuse the situation and have the students work through the issue at hand. It is a lot of work but it can be done. But not everyone wants to or has the mental capacity to put in the same amount of work. I don't personally blame them, it's not an easy job.

As far as my principal goes, he is aware exactly what I think of him. I am the campus rep for my teacher association so I have made it known what I think via numerous grievances filed with the district. I want to think the district sees he is a liability but who knows. It may take another year or two before they do anything. My best guess is that we will have about 100 teacher vacancies to fill next year because so many staff are leaving. That represents about 40% of our overall number of teachers.

Quote:

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Yep let's defund the school police …….

Idiots

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But wait, last week this was the mantra:

TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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Yep let's defund the school police …….

Idiots

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But wait, last week this was the mantra:

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I mean he's a libertarian so I'm not sure that has any context in terms of OP

Democrats accept crime and criminals. They are related to it.

nai06 said:

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Fenrir said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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nai06 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Quote:

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After the mass shooting at a Texas elementary school, schools around the country pledged to boost security measures and increased the presence of law enforcement on campus partly to reassure parents and students.

But police inside schools can make some students more uneasy, not less. Especially for Black students and other students of color, their personal experiences with policing can leave them feeling unsafe and alienated from school when they see officers on campus.

High school senior Malika Mobley has seen three different school resource officers patrolling the campus in Raleigh, North Carolina. Once on the way home from school, Mobley saw officers detain a visibly distraught classmate and push the student into the back of a police vehicle.

"They were crying, 'Why are you doing this to me? I didn't do anything,'" said Mobley, co-president of Wake County Black Student Coalition. "I was just forced to stand there and couldn't do anything."

Since 2020, the student group has advocated for eliminating police officers from school buildings in favor of investing in counselors and support staff for students.

"We don't see police presence as part of the solution," Mobley said. "If you really think about why police don't make us safer, you can draw connections to all types of tragedies that impact the most marginalized among us."

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https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-police-in-schools-755721618f268d6fc7039a8cb255d43a

These people are ****ing insane. I know the students are just regurgitating whatever they're told by their leaders, but it is almost like the goal is to deliberately leave schools open to mass shootings, all in the name of social justice.

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Cops at schools don't stop mass shootings nor do they prevent crime. They end up increasing it because things that were typically handled administratively are now handled by police and become a criminal matter.


I hope that clarifies things for you.

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So a crime that wasn't identified as a crime before because it was handled by staff is now identified as a crime and that increases crime?

Lol, only in the mind of a lib does that make sense.

Like I said, you are free to get rid of cops in your school. I hope you do. Good luck.

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He's saying that "Its only a crime if you get caught."

Its a great worldview to have and it TOTALLY won't lead to societal deterioration or disregard for the rule of law at all.

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Really makes you wonder what someone that thinks like this tries to get away with when transporting people to polls to vote.

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So you have a problem with giving someone a ride to go vote?

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If they plan to vote Democrat, then yes. I won't take them.