So every morning teachers arrive at school, a' no gun zone', they are charged with teaching and caring for our children. It's apparent that there is a contingent of people, a much higher number than we'd like to believe who wish to do harm to even the most innocent and vulnerable in our society. (And it really doesn't matter the weapon - gasoline or homemade napalm can harm, maim and kill more than an "assault rifle", so completely eliminating guns won't end the carnage of those who wish to do evil.)

So teachers, if you can't depend on a law to protect you, and now we have multiple instances where you can't depend on law enforcement heroes to eliminate the person at your door or inside your classroom, do you really want to be completely defenseless to save the children who you love, probably more than anyone other than their families?

No. But it won't happen.

Work at a district with a Guardian Program in place. We never feel defenseless. Or at least I don't.

FrankK said:

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And it really doesn't matter the weapon - gasoline… can harm, maim and kill more than an "assault rifle"

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You think that guy could've hopped out of a crashed truck with a can of gasoline, walked over to a school and taken out 21 people with his gas can before he could be stopped?

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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You think that guy could've hopped out of a crashed truck with a can of gasoline, walked over to a school and taken out 21 people with his gas can before he could be stopped?

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Got nothing else to do on a holiday Sunday afternoon but troll, huh?

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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You think that guy could've hopped out of a crashed truck with a can of gasoline, walked over to a school and taken out 21 people with his gas can before he could be stopped?

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We really should just separate peacefully into two countries. You and all the democrat voters can live in peace with no guns, and all us conservatives can live in terrifying fear with our guns.

Only rule is you guys cant change your minds when your country inevitably turns into Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco levels of chaos, poverty, crime, ****, and immorality.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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You think that guy could've hopped out of a crashed truck with a can of gasoline, walked over to a school and taken out 21 people with his gas can before he could be stopped?

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There are 400 million guns out there. They are always being to be available to bad actors. He won't show up with a gas can. He'll show up with a gun he got some other way. Your fantasy will only disarm law-abiders and lead to more victims. There is a reason these guys pick schools. Easy, gun free targets.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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You think that guy could've hopped out of a crashed truck with a can of gasoline, walked over to a school and taken out 21 people with his gas can before he could be stopped?

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Yes, with very little planning, I'd put the number at closer to 121. By the way, I never said anything about a can. I'm surprised you don't have a better imagination after observing a couple of BLM mostly peaceful protests.

FrankK said:

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ActualTalkingThermos said:

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You think that guy could've hopped out of a crashed truck with a can of gasoline, walked over to a school and taken out 21 people with his gas can before he could be stopped?

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Yes, with very little planning, I'd put the number at closer to 121.

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Oh well thank god he didn't have access to gas, then.

Quote:

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. By the way, I never said anything about a can. I'm surprised you don't have a better imagination after observing a couple of BLM mostly peaceful protests.

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I guess I wasn't paying attention. How many people did they kill with gasoline?

Sorry, but the whole argument that ready access to highly effective purpose-built killing machines plays no part in these massacres because you can kill people just as effectively with a knife or gasoline or acid or whatever is patently absurd. For one thing, if that were true, why would it be so vital to have Good Guys With Guns everywhere? Why would you be at a disadvantage against the Bad Guy With A Gun when you've got a knife and some Dale Gribble style pocket sand?

They killed 181 in OKC with fertilizer. 3000+ with a plane and box cutters.

It's the evil in their mind, not the tool.

Ag06Law said:

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Got nothing else to do on a holiday Sunday afternoon but troll, huh?

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I'm home taking care of a sick kid, waiting for the preschool plague to inevitably take me too. So no, not really.

To answer your question, yes I would gladly keep my gun on me and receive training if my ISD allowed it. I've thought a lot about it. Gun or no gun if it happens at my school I'm going to try and save my students if I can.

tag8 said:

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Work at a district with a Guardian Program in place. We never feel defenseless. Or at least I don't.

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This, let us take back our school security, no need for our do nothing government to act.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Sorry, but the whole argument that ready access to highly effective purpose-built killing machines plays no part in these massacres because you can kill people just as effectively with a knife or gasoline or acid or whatever is patently absurd. For one thing, if that were true, why would it be so vital to have Good Guys With Guns everywhere? Why would you be at a disadvantage against the Bad Guy With A Gun when you've got a knife and some Dale Gribble style pocket sand?

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Do you enjoy trolling or are you really just a petulant dumbass in real life?

zooguy96 said:

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They killed 181 in OKC with fertilizer. 3000+ with a plane and box cutters.

It's the evil in their mind, not the tool.

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I assume we did nothing to restrict access to that kind of fertilizer and did not ban knives and box cutters on airplanes after those incidents. What would be the point, right? It would only ensure that the bad guys with blades had no need to fear resistance from the other passengers.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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zooguy96 said:

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They killed 181 in OKC with fertilizer. 3000+ with a plane and box cutters.

It's the evil in their mind, not the tool.

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I assume we did nothing to restrict access to that kind of fertilizer and did not ban knives and box cutters on airplanes after those incidents. What would be the point, right? It would only ensure that the bad guys with blades had no need to fear resistance from the other passengers.

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Illegal drugs - we restrict access.
Killing - it's illegal.

Making a law does nothing. People who want to kill others will always find a way.

Law abiding citizens should have a way to defend themselves.

"Shall not be infringed".

Even if they would allow us to have guns on us, we still need to be on our toes. We talk about staying alert. Regardless of what you think about how the police handled the situation, there is still the question if the door was propped open, would things be different. In the teaching business, you have to always be on alert.

zooguy96 said:

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They killed 181 in OKC with fertilizer. 3000+ with a plane and box cutters.

It's the evil in their mind, not the tool.

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OK then, so there's actually no need for a citizenry armed with guns to protect against the atrocities of a tyrannical government. If you intend to maintain an insurgency against a would-be Hitler or Stalin, you'll be just as effective with rented UHaul trucks and box cutters. After all it's what's in your mind, not the tool that matters.

I personally think the idea of multiple staff members being armed would itself deter these events. These cowards want a soft target to rack up a lot of deaths with no risk until it's done.

Here's the latest strawman argument against armed teachers. I guess firearm proficient teachers can't do at school what they already do in probably most other areas of their lives without paying an additional fee of some sort? Where's the extra cost they're talking about? Do they think teachers are going to have to fund hundreds of spent rounds at school every day? All this proves is that the left can't meme.

I work with way too many teachers to embrace the notion that they should be armed at school.

Who will be paying for gear and training?

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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zooguy96 said:

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They killed 181 in OKC with fertilizer. 3000+ with a plane and box cutters.

It's the evil in their mind, not the tool.

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OK then, so there's actually no need for a citizenry armed with guns to protect against the atrocities of a tyrannical government. If you intend to maintain an insurgency against a would-be Hitler or Stalin, you'll be just as effective with rented UHaul trucks and box cutters. After all it's what's in your mind, not the tool that matters.

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Specious argument.

The right to arms isn't decided on the platform of weapon.

Put another way. If guns are banned and we resort to alternative means for protection, and those same alternative means are used offensively and immorally, then those same alternative means will be banned.

That is THE point about ' box cutters and fertilizer'.

It isn't the means it is the mindset.

Secondly the right to arms isn't a dispensation from the government. It precedes the government in multiple ways in terms of time and primacy.

solishu said:

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Who will be paying for gear and training?

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I pay for my own. That's the point. Why not allow people who already spend money on equipment and training to use it to protect themselves in this environment?

I think people are assuming that this idea would *require* all teachers to carry. The response to that is a hearty "hell no"! I don't want the purple haired English teacher in her (or God-forbid "their") 20s to carry. They are scared of guns to begin with. This would just allow people who *already* own firearms and carry and visit the range to do what they normally do on the school campus.

Ag in Tiger Country said:

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ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Sorry, but the whole argument that ready access to highly effective purpose-built killing machines plays no part in these massacres because you can kill people just as effectively with a knife or gasoline or acid or whatever is patently absurd. For one thing, if that were true, why would it be so vital to have Good Guys With Guns everywhere? Why would you be at a disadvantage against the Bad Guy With A Gun when you've got a knife and some Dale Gribble style pocket sand?

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Do you enjoy trolling or are you really just a petulant dumbass in real life?

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solishu said:

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I work with way too many teachers to embrace the notion that they should be armed at school.

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Should be armed, versus can be armed.

Try harder next time.

With a Molotov cocktail. Sure

Our district paid for our training, and had us undergo psych evaluations. For obvious reasons, we had to provide our own firearm.

We don't know which of the other teachers or staff are armed. Only the superintendent and our police department know.

solishu said:

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I work with way too many teachers to embrace the notion that they should be armed at school.

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Easy to say that until there's an active shooter at your kid's school.

Let's cut to the chase. Do you want to ban "assault weapons"? When that doesn't stop these shootings what do you want to ban next?

How about take one of the $40 billion packages to Ukraine and add 3 extra resource officers to patrol the school.

What can be done in my classroom to protect my students?

1. Doors. Windows need to be changed to where they are higher and smaller, do not afford a good view of the inside from the outside, and don't allow someone to break the window to reach in and open the door. Further, make sure they're always locked, and that they're not propped open.

2. Protection. I've seen bulletproof whiteboards that can be moved around. If there's a code red, move it in front of the door to block the view and protect the room from
being fired into. Or perhaps ballistic shields that a teacher or student can use to defend themselves or to provide cover if people are fleeing.

3. Self defense. I could probably use my own personal firearm, but to be perfectly honest, I don't know how my students would behave with one in the classroom (it just takes one bad moment to create the situation we're trying to prevent). So maybe non-lethal munitions. A gun that shoots pepper capsules or something provides some measure of defense while not putting students at risk on a day to day basis. Additionally, if a shooter is wearing body armor, pepper munitions that break on the armor and affect their vision may possibly be a better option than bullets that don't penetrate the armor. Another alternative is to provide teachers with hand to hand weapons, like collapsible batons or other bludgeoning objects.

ActualTalkingThermos said:

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Sorry, but the whole argument that ready access to highly effective purpose-built killing machines plays no part in these massacres because you can kill people just as effectively with a knife or gasoline or acid or whatever is patently absurd. For one thing, if that were true, why would it be so vital to have Good Guys With Guns everywhere? Why would you be at a disadvantage against the Bad Guy With A Gun when you've got a knife and some Dale Gribble style pocket sand?

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Fertilizer
Diesel Fuel
Rental Truck.

FrankK said:

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So every morning teachers arrive at school, a' no gun zone', they are charged with teaching and caring for our children. It's apparent that there is a contingent of people, a much higher number than we'd like to believe who wish to do harm to even the most innocent and vulnerable in our society. (And it really doesn't matter the weapon - gasoline or homemade napalm can harm, maim and kill more than an "assault rifle", so completely eliminating guns won't end the carnage of those who wish to do evil.)

So teachers, if you can't depend on a law to protect you, and now we have multiple instances where you can't depend on law enforcement heroes to eliminate the person at your door or inside your classroom, do you really want to be completely defenseless to save the children who you love, probably more than anyone other than their families?

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It's a little bit ironic how much teachers have been ragged on this past year on F16 …and now everyone wants to put their faith in them to carry weapons to defend the children. Teachers put up with so much crap from students and administrators on a daily basis, and then have to deal with parents who either don't care or who are trying to force their own politics into the classroom. And now they must become armed security. So let's tell them again , very loudly, that if they don't like all of that…go find another profession, because we are sure there are a line of qualified people who will put up with all of that, waiting to fill those vacancies. Genius