they should be treated like Medicare/Medicade. There is a set number that will be loaned - and it must cover tuition, room and board or the school is not eligible to participate.

You want to see schools cut administration and drop the cost of college? This would do it immediately (so long as the number is kept low like Medicare/Medicate reimbursements are).

Nah, just make loans discharge in bankruptcy like all other debt.

If not that, then set a cap on the total amount of accrued interest. Something like the loan is discharged once 2x the principle is repaid, the multiple can be debated, but it shouldn't accrue infinitely.

Or...get the government out of it completely.

Should not be guaranteed. Students should go through an interview explaining how they'll pay it off...and get approved or denied based on that. Just like any other loan.

No... Not like medicare or medicade.

They're made by private institutions and awarded based on the borrowers perceived ability to repay. Trailing GPA and average earnings of the degree plan being sought are the determiners of total borrowing and interest rates.

OR, if someone chooses to borrow money, here's the kicker, they pay it back with interest. I know I know, it's such a strange concept.

This meme expires at midnight...

Bad idea.

Next.

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Or...get the government out of it completely.

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Well, that isn't going to happen and we all know it. What's happening now is welfare for colleges and their employees. We need to get costs down - and hold colleges accountable for the borrowing that was used to pay them.

I agree that all loans need to be paid by the borrowers - I paid mine, and covered my child's college completely. I don't want loans forgiven, but the issue is the proliferation of useless degrees and costs inflated by bloated colleges.

If you make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, everyone will do that when they graduate.

Degrees you can get a loan easily:
all real science, but computer yes, psychology no
tech
engineering
business/accounting
Ag

Any other "science" or liberal arts degree should go through a thorough vetting process.

Allow bankruptcy.

Have the market evaluate the creditworthiness of the individual based on academic record, course of study, plans after graduation, and what other creditworthiness information is available (which will of course be limited). Then price the loan and borrowing limits accordingly.

Crazy concept.


But it would also be the death of liberal arts. So the left will never support it.

Aggie Jurist said:

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they should be treated like Medicare/Medicade. There is a set number that will be loaned - and it must cover tuition, room and board or the school is not eligible to participate.

You want to see schools cut administration and drop the cost of college? This would do it immediately (so long as the number is kept low like Medicare/Medicate reimbursements are).

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The government involvement in healthcare has allowed it to be the one industry in America that has inflationary technology costs. Technology is deflationary. It should never be cheaper a cheaper time for x-rays, surgica equipment, etc. yet the government rules and involvement in the process has completely *******ized the situation.

So how does setting up a similar program in higher ed where nobody cares about the costs, because the government will take care of it on the back end, lead to any sort of different outcome?

Aggie Jurist said:

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they should be treated like Medicare/Medicade. There is a set number that will be loaned - and it must cover tuition, room and board or the school is not eligible to participate.

You want to see schools cut administration and drop the cost of college? This would do it immediately (so long as the number is kept low like Medicare/Medicate reimbursements are).

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That's not how Medicaid/Medicare work. They set a low max reimbursement rate, that the same providers then try to make up for by charging private payers/insurance more for. This drives the "rack rates" up, not down.

What I'm saying is under your system, universities would charge $8k/year to low-income students, and $40k/year to everyone else.

If you want a government solution, we are better going back to price caps set by the state legislature like we had pre "tuition deregulation".

Have every College and University be a co-signer on the loan. Problem solved.

How does that solve the problem? What's to stop a loan recipient from strategic default?

If a freshly minted graduate can get a credit card co-signed by the parents (or a secured credit card) and doesn't plan to buy a house for a few years, they would be stupid NOT to default. It would be a 100% rational decision.

GeorgiAg said:

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If you make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, everyone will do that when they graduate.

Degrees you can get a loan easily:
all real science, but computer yes, psychology no
tech
engineering
business/accounting
Ag

Any other "science" or liberal arts degree should go through a thorough vetting process.

---

If you make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, the banks will just be more selective in who they choose to loan out money, and not nearly as many people will go to college. It will only be for those who really need higher education, and the rich aholes who's parents can afford to put them in adult daycare, like it has been historically.

Then maybe we can finally take a look at the real issue, the fact that the achieving a HS degree today is mostly worthless to most employers. Which is why I see the future of providing "free" college to people eventually leading to the devaluing of an undergrad degree as well. Then in 30 years, we will have socialists *****ing about how nobody can get a job with an undergrad degree, and everyone is having to take on even more debt to get a masters or doctorate to remain competitive in the job market.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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If you make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, everyone will do that when they graduate.

Degrees you can get a loan easily:
all real science, but computer yes, psychology no
tech
engineering
business/accounting
Ag

Any other "science" or liberal arts degree should go through a thorough vetting process.

---

If you make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, the banks will just be more selective in who they choose to loan out money, and not nearly as many people will go to college. It will only be for those who really need higher education, and the rich aholes who's parents can afford to put them in adult daycare, like it has been historically.

Then maybe we can finally take a look at the real issue, the fact that the achieving a HS degree today is mostly worthless to most employers. Which is why I see the future of providing "free" college to people eventually leading to the devaluing of an undergrad degree as well. Then in 30 years, we will have socialists *****ing about how nobody can get a job with an undergrad degree, and everyone is having to take on even more debt to get a masters or doctorate to remain competitive in the job market.

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I guess that's true. Lenders would think twice about that "gender studies" or "abnormal psych" degree.

Simple Govt gets out of the 'student loan' business. The only educational benefit available from Govt is a GI Bill type assistance for armed service participation. This worked well for the Greatest Generation.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Ag81Golf said:

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Have every College and University be a co-signer on the loan. Problem solved.

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Yep.

Require the schools to loan the money. If they give loans to kids with worthless degrees, they'll hopefully adjust. Or go bankrupt.

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Again, how does that solve the problem? What's to stop a loan recipient with a not-worthless degree from strategic default?

Just make the kids pay it back. If they get behind they then get hit when taxes are filed by losing tax credits and stimulus checks. They must learn to be responsible at some point.

Remind them they are house Targaryen.

Nitro Power said:

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Or...get the government out of it completely.

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Yup, put banks back in charge. At least they give a #^#^ if the debtor pays them back or not.

Keegan99 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Ag81Golf said:

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Have every College and University be a co-signer on the loan. Problem solved.

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Yep.

Require the schools to loan the money. If they give loans to kids with worthless degrees, they'll hopefully adjust. Or go bankrupt.

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Again, how does that solve the problem? What's to stop a loan recipient with a not-worthless degree from strategic default?

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If the schools are exposed to more risk then they won't lend to just anyone, and definitely not the people likely to default. They would have skin in the game. They'll get burned and learn quickly.
One thing you could also do is use future wages as collateral or even to pay back the loan, stated in the contract. Would drive college price down also because people would be much more selective at the same time colleges are being more picky.

File5 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Ag81Golf said:

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Have every College and University be a co-signer on the loan. Problem solved.

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Yep.

Require the schools to loan the money. If they give loans to kids with worthless degrees, they'll hopefully adjust. Or go bankrupt.

---

Again, how does that solve the problem? What's to stop a loan recipient with a not-worthless degree from strategic default?

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If the schools are exposed to more risk then they won't lend to just anyone, and definitely not the people likely to default. They would have skin in the game. They'll get burned and learn quickly.
One thing you could also do is use future wages as collateral or even to pay back the loan, stated in the contract. Would drive college price down also because people would be much more selective at the same time colleges are being more picky.

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How do you assess a 17 year old's likelihood of default? Especially if they're from a lower-class background?

And future wages as collateral... now you're once again removing the ability to discharge in bankruptcy?

It's pretty simple how it should work.

You get a loan. You pay it back.

Quote:

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It's pretty simple how it should work.

You get a loan. You pay it back.

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Agree, but the loans have gotten out of hand b/c the schools are selling a product with a negative ROI. The schools have some (a lot) of responsibility here. Cut off the supply of money and the market will correct itself.

I say that the lucky few who may get this forgiveness (because screw us who paid or are still in primary school, right?), that mandatory community service be part of the deal.

A rate of 1hr per $50 forgiven should suffice. That way the tax payer gets SOME benefit out of this. A BA in basketweaving should suffice for picking up trash off the Interstate.

rangerdanger said:

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I say that the lucky few who may get this forgiveness (because screw us who paid or are still in primary school, right?), that mandatory community service be part of the deal.

A rate of 1hr per $50 forgiven should suffice. That way the tax payer gets SOME benefit out of this. A BA in basketweaving should suffice for picking up trash off the Interstate.

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I support the sentiment, but I think that would be literally labeled as debt slavery and would die on the vine.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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rangerdanger said:

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I say that the lucky few who may get this forgiveness (because screw us who paid or are still in primary school, right?), that mandatory community service be part of the deal.

A rate of 1hr per $50 forgiven should suffice. That way the tax payer gets SOME benefit out of this. A BA in basketweaving should suffice for picking up trash off the Interstate.

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I support the sentiment, but I think that would be literally labeled as debt slavery and would die on the vine.

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I see it this way, you got a degree in Literature you could probably teach some disadvantaged children to read. Sports management can run some summer camp activity. You can also learn new skills and network while volunteering.

At a rate of $50 or $100 an hour, you're melting the debt off more than not working or doing some lower waged job. The rate is "untaxed" and melts off the remaining principal that isn't subject to interest anymore.

Edit: Also, you could opt not to have it forgiven and still pay it off normally if the community service doesn't work for you.

Keegan99 said:

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File5 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Ag81Golf said:

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Have every College and University be a co-signer on the loan. Problem solved.

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Yep.

Require the schools to loan the money. If they give loans to kids with worthless degrees, they'll hopefully adjust. Or go bankrupt.

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Again, how does that solve the problem? What's to stop a loan recipient with a not-worthless degree from strategic default?

---

If the schools are exposed to more risk then they won't lend to just anyone, and definitely not the people likely to default. They would have skin in the game. They'll get burned and learn quickly.
One thing you could also do is use future wages as collateral or even to pay back the loan, stated in the contract. Would drive college price down also because people would be much more selective at the same time colleges are being more picky.

---

How do you assess a 17 year old's likelihood of default? Especially if they're from a lower-class background?

And future wages as collateral... now you're once again removing the ability to discharge in bankruptcy?

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Collateral

Nitro Power said:

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Or...get the government out of it completely.

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Exactly.

What the loans do is make it easier for the colleges to raise the costs since the students can borrow the money.

Before the loans became so common, tuition and fees were much lower. It was common for profs to teach a full load every semester instead of teaching maybe one or two courses and hiring lecturers to teach the other classes.

In my entire undegraduate years, my teachers were full time faculty for nearly every class. The two exceptions I can think of off hand were Texas History (instructor was a former member of the Texas House), my second course in Economics, my computer science courses in Fortran and Assembly Language, my various labs, PE, and Air Science.

I'm curious how many of today's undergraduates are taught by professors.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Keegan99 said:

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File5 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Ag81Golf said:

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Have every College and University be a co-signer on the loan. Problem solved.

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Yep.

Require the schools to loan the money. If they give loans to kids with worthless degrees, they'll hopefully adjust. Or go bankrupt.

---

Again, how does that solve the problem? What's to stop a loan recipient with a not-worthless degree from strategic default?

---

If the schools are exposed to more risk then they won't lend to just anyone, and definitely not the people likely to default. They would have skin in the game. They'll get burned and learn quickly.
One thing you could also do is use future wages as collateral or even to pay back the loan, stated in the contract. Would drive college price down also because people would be much more selective at the same time colleges are being more picky.

---

How do you assess a 17 year old's likelihood of default? Especially if they're from a lower-class background?

And future wages as collateral... now you're once again removing the ability to discharge in bankruptcy?

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Collateral

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What collateral does an 18 year old have?

Keegan99 said:

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File5 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Ag81Golf said:

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Have every College and University be a co-signer on the loan. Problem solved.

---

Yep.

Require the schools to loan the money. If they give loans to kids with worthless degrees, they'll hopefully adjust. Or go bankrupt.

---

Again, how does that solve the problem? What's to stop a loan recipient with a not-worthless degree from strategic default?

---

If the schools are exposed to more risk then they won't lend to just anyone, and definitely not the people likely to default. They would have skin in the game. They'll get burned and learn quickly.
One thing you could also do is use future wages as collateral or even to pay back the loan, stated in the contract. Would drive college price down also because people would be much more selective at the same time colleges are being more picky.

---

How do you assess a 17 year old's likelihood of default? Especially if they're from a lower-class background?

And future wages as collateral... now you're once again removing the ability to discharge in bankruptcy?

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Purdue has a program similar to that already. You agree to give up a percentage of your salary for 10 years. They make bank on their high earners, and can profit over the losses on the barista types.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/purdue-income-share-agreement-scrutiny-student-loan-153057798.html

Percent of future wages, car, money in the bank, other valuables, parents can offer collateral on their behalf, things that loans normally have as collateral, etc. Would drive people to pick degrees with earning potential if they don't have other means, yes, but that is not a bad thing IMO. Someone besides the taxpayer needs skin in the game to correct the behavior of the whole system.