The dems probably called this crony capitalism and in bed with big business when it was first put in place. Corporate welfare.

Just forgive the debt....right dems? that is the playbook....dont wanna pay the bill, just forgive it?

Who are you? Don't recognize your username. Weird that you popped up just to post this nonsense.

aggrad02 said:

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Can't Florida/ Orange County pay the $2B by raising taxes on Disney $2B once the Roddy Creek district is resolved? I bet over time the money gained by taxing Disney will outweigh the amount paid.

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Reedy Creek was it's own taxing authority and used the taxes they took in to pay the bonds. They still paid local and state taxes, they were just their own district.

For Example where I live (this is a complete guestimate);
State Sales Tax = 6.875%
County Sales Tax = 1.875%
City Sales Tax = 1.125%

Disney was effectively the City tax portion. Now those taxes will go to the city that will absorb Reedy Creek or the County. That "city sales tax" will pay off the bonds and it will only come on Disney property, not the rest of the city/county. The residents are not going to see a $2,200 tax bill at the end of 2022.

EDIT: To clarify, that is my limited understanding of how the Reedy Creek Improvement District was set up to operate.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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It doesn't, really.

But even if it did, it's a small price to pay for protecting children from sexual indoctrination.

Pervert your own children and leave everyone else's alone. Children are precious!

Quote:

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But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to fall awayit would be better for him if a heavy millstone were hung around his neck and he were drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of offenses. For offenses will inevitably come, but woe to that person by whom the offense comes. -- Matthew 18:6-7

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Ellis, I think that biblical quote is disinformation and you're going to be visited by men with guns at your house this weekend. Yes, it's satire, but it's coming.

It also advocates violence against the noble groomers.

agracer said:

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aggrad02 said:

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Can't Florida/ Orange County pay the $2B by raising taxes on Disney $2B once the Roddy Creek district is resolved? I bet over time the money gained by taxing Disney will outweigh the amount paid.

---

Reedy Creek was it's own taxing authority and used the taxes they took in to pay the bonds. They still paid local and state taxes, they were just their own district.

For Example where I live (this is a complete guestimate);
State Sales Tax = 6.875%
County Sales Tax = 1.875%
City Sales Tax = 1.125%

Disney was effectively the City tax portion. Now those taxes will go to the city that will absorb Reedy Creek or the County. That "city sales tax" will pay off the bonds and it will only come on Disney property, not the rest of the city/county. The residents are not going to see a $2,200 tax bill at the end of 2022.

EDIT: To clarify, that is my limited understanding of how the Reedy Creek Improvement District was set up to operate.

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I figured the OP was bull***** Thanks for explaining.

hoopla said:

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Sen. @JeffreyBrandes asks: "My concern is this bill essentially wipes away Disneys' $2 billion of debt...if the legislative intent here is ultimately to attack them, then why would we want to cancel $2 billion of debt?"

— Mary Ellen Klas (@MaryEllenKlas) April 20, 2022

Details emerge on @GovRonDeSantis idea to repeal Disney's special district governing authority. To pay the Disney's $2 B in bond debt, Orange and Osceola county families would have to be assessed $2,200 tax bill says @FarmerForFLSen. "This is shoot first and ask questions later."

— Mary Ellen Klas (@MaryEllenKlas) April 20, 2022

Residents of Orange and Osceola counties are in for a wakeup call IF this goes through.

Sen. @LindaStewartFL, whose district includes Disney, says she has had discussions with Disney execs and they have concluded the Legislature can't dissolve the Reedy Creek Improvement District without the approval of the district voters. /1

— Mary Ellen Klas (@MaryEllenKlas) April 19, 2022

"And since most of the residential landowners are all Disney employees, I don't think that they're going to want it dissolved,'' Stewart said. She predicts it will be up to the courts to resolve. /end

— Mary Ellen Klas (@MaryEllenKlas) April 19, 2022

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There are residents that live within the district, but the only landowner is Disney. There are no "resident landowners" by design from Disney. Disney is currently paying roughly 2.2 millage rate on the value their own district placed on their property. Universal is paying Orlando a roughly 6.6 millage rate on their property. If Disney is able to pay for the bonds on a 2.2 rate, whoever the legislature assigns to take over from Reedy will be able to tax at whatever their current rate is. If Orlando take over for Reedy, Disney will be paying 3x as much in taxes and the Orlando tax payers won't have to raise taxes by a penny to easily afford the bond payments. This is all posturing by democrats who are hoping the residents won't realize it and the media won't check what they are saying.

Orange County (Orlando) can reap what the left has sown for them.

Have fun! Red Florida counties snicker.

It's about time the left feels it's own wealth redistribution pain.

agracer said:

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aggrad02 said:

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Can't Florida/ Orange County pay the $2B by raising taxes on Disney $2B once the Roddy Creek district is resolved? I bet over time the money gained by taxing Disney will outweigh the amount paid.

---

Reedy Creek was it's own taxing authority and used the taxes they took in to pay the bonds. They still paid local and state taxes, they were just their own district.

For Example where I live (this is a complete guestimate);
State Sales Tax = 6.875%
County Sales Tax = 1.875%
City Sales Tax = 1.125%

Disney was effectively the City tax portion. Now those taxes will go to the city that will absorb Reedy Creek or the County. That "city sales tax" will pay off the bonds and it will only come on Disney property, not the rest of the city/county. The residents are not going to see a $2,200 tax bill at the end of 2022.

EDIT: To clarify, that is my limited understanding of how the Reedy Creek Improvement District was set up to operate.

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Yeah, and just wait until the local appraisal district gets to determine the value the Disney properties. It's highly likely their assessed value will go up which will generate additional tax dollars for the county.

It will also spread the existing cost of local government over a much higher value tax base. If the local entities function as they should - and that's a big if - it's possible over the long term it could result in a tax rate decrease for the citizens of the area.

Thank you for your explanation. Lot of potshots from both sides and I haven't seen a detailed answer. I always thought it was stupid for the democrats to dunk on this. DeSantis is still the governor with a packed republican legislature, they can fix whatever problems they created by this.

The whole 'Your giving them 2 billion angle is dumb.' My understanding is that the debt is just a bond, they're going to take over the bond, and then bill Disney the regular rate. Just like every improvement district.

Why are Republicans in favor of removing Improvement district authority and send more power back to the State?
This seems like a weapon the Democrats would use

Quote:

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There are residents that live within the district, but the only landowner is Disney. There are no "resident landowners" by design from Disney. Disney is currently paying roughly 0.2 millage rate on the value their own district placed on their property. Universal is paying Orlando a roughly 0.66 millage rate on their property. If Disney is able to pay for the bonds on a 0.2 rate, whoever the legislature assigns to take over from Reedy will be able to tax at whatever their current rate is. If Orlando take over for Reedy, Disney will be paying 3x as much in taxes and the Orlando tax payers won't have to raise taxes by a penny to easily afford the bond payments. This is all posturing by democrats who are hoping the residents won't realize it and the media won't check what they are saying.

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This assuming their is no default on the bonds:
https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insights-and-commentary/the-contractual-impossibility-of-unwinding-disneys-reedy-creek

Quote:

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In authorizing Reedy Creek to issue bonds, the Florida legislature included a remarkable statementincluded in Reedy Creek's bond offeringsregarding its own promise to bondholders: "The State of Florida pledges to the holders of any bonds issued under this Act that it will not limit or alter the rights of the District to own, acquire, construct, reconstruct, improve, maintain, operate or furnish the projects or to levy and collect the taxes, assessments, rentals, rates, fees, tolls, fares and other charges provided for herein … until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any action or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged."

The bill dissolving Reedy Creek doesn't say what should happen to these debts, but another statute does: By default, the local general-purpose governmentthe countyassumes the district's debt, along with all of its assets. This means that theoretically, Orange and Osceola counties will inherit upward of $1 billion in bond debt.

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tysker said:

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Why are Republicans in favor of removing Improvement district authority and send more power back to the State?
This seems like a weapon the Democrats would use

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Why are the democrats in favor of giving tax breaks to big megacorporations? Seems like something the Republicans can use as a weapon.

tysker said:

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Quote:

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There are residents that live within the district, but the only landowner is Disney. There are no "resident landowners" by design from Disney. Disney is currently paying roughly 0.2 millage rate on the value their own district placed on their property. Universal is paying Orlando a roughly 0.66 millage rate on their property. If Disney is able to pay for the bonds on a 0.2 rate, whoever the legislature assigns to take over from Reedy will be able to tax at whatever their current rate is. If Orlando take over for Reedy, Disney will be paying 3x as much in taxes and the Orlando tax payers won't have to raise taxes by a penny to easily afford the bond payments. This is all posturing by democrats who are hoping the residents won't realize it and the media won't check what they are saying.

---

This assuming their is no default on the bonds:
https://news.bloombergtax.com/tax-insights-and-commentary/the-contractual-impossibility-of-unwinding-disneys-reedy-creek

Quote:

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In authorizing Reedy Creek to issue bonds, the Florida legislature included a remarkable statementincluded in Reedy Creek's bond offeringsregarding its own promise to bondholders: "The State of Florida pledges to the holders of any bonds issued under this Act that it will not limit or alter the rights of the District to own, acquire, construct, reconstruct, improve, maintain, operate or furnish the projects or to levy and collect the taxes, assessments, rentals, rates, fees, tolls, fares and other charges provided for herein … until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any action or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged."

The bill dissolving Reedy Creek doesn't say what should happen to these debts, but another statute does: By default, the local general-purpose governmentthe countyassumes the district's debt, along with all of its assets. This means that theoretically, Orange and Osceola counties will inherit upward of $1 billion in bond debt.

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Easy, write legislation to allow the bond debt to be transferred to whoever takes on the responsibilities, then allow them to collect the taxes from Disney to keep paying for them. Viola, the bond debt to the district is gone and Orange County or Orlando or Osceola County will get income equaling ~3x what Disney was paying Reedy and will be more than able to cover the binds without raising taxes.

DallasAg 94 said:

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I think this is a dumb strategy by Democrats.

All you have to do is impose a parking and hotel tax. Viola.

58M visitors. That is how these taxes get paid. Visitors. Hotel. Parking.

Just ask every other major venue in America.

You know whose Taxes are about to go DOWN?! The rest of the people in those counties.

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There already is a pretty hefty tourist tax in the Orlando area. 6%, in addition to the already 6.5% state sales tax. And when the hotels jack up the prices because of demand, what would be a $100 Holiday Inn Express room anywhere else ends up being closer to $200 a night.

Here's the thing...

Disney doesn't owe the money. RC does. Disney was simply going to be taxed by RC for it. Now the counties will tax Disney for it instead.

That's not what DeSantis and his spokeswoman are saying. I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions and trying to push this through just to slander him more. But time will tell. It seems every time the left in the media report something about DeSantis it turns out to be false.

As Governor DeSantis has said, Disney will pay its fair share of taxes, and abolishing the special district will not cause tax increases for the residents of any area of Florida," Pushaw said.

the governor's press secretary Christina Pushaw on Thursday said such concerns were "a fit about some baseless hypothetical."

On Twitter, teasing "more to come," Pushaw said Disney would pay its fair share of taxes, no Floridians would be "on the hook" and a plan to make that happen would be made available in the next few weeks.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/04/28/repeal-of-disneys-reedy-creek-will-not-cause-tax-increases-for-floridians-desantis-press-secretary-says/?outputType=amp

Not to mention, there are few "average" taxpayers in the area. Most of the sales tax revenue comes from those tourists, and most of the property tax revenue will come from corporations like Disney, Universal, etc.

In a screwball kind of way, Universal may end up paying more if Disney loses the Reedy Creek district.

Small price to pay to end wokedisney

LeonardSkinner said:

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Not to mention, there are few "average" taxpayers in the area. Most of the sales tax revenue comes from those tourists, and most of the property tax revenue will come from corporations like Disney, Universal, etc.

In a screwball kind of way, Universal may end up paying more if Disney loses the Reedy Creek district.

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Property taxes will be passed onto consumers, like they always are.

txags92 said:

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tysker said:

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Why are Republicans in favor of removing Improvement district authority and send more power back to the State?
This seems like a weapon the Democrats would use

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Why are the democrats in favor of giving tax breaks to big megacorporations? Seems like something the Republicans can use as a weapon.

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Improvement districts are "big megacorporations" for which property owners are held at the whims government morality police? I'd be careful what you wish for.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Here's the thing...

Disney doesn't owe the money. RC does. Disney was simply going to be taxed by RC for it. Now the counties will tax Disney for it instead.

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Actually it won't be the county, it will be whatever municipality takes over RC's role. See the tax bills below from Universal and Disney. These are Tangible Personal Property bills, not Real Property, but the tax structure should be the same for real property. The taxes paid are identical, except that Disney pays taxes to "Bay Lake" as their municipal entity, while Universal pays the City of Orlando. "Bay Lake" is one of the fake cities created under RC that has about 20 residents, all who work for Disney, and none of whom own land in the "city". When these districts are dissolved, Disney doesn't get to just stop paying their share of municipal taxes. Those taxes will go to whoever takes over that role as a municipality serving Disney. Right now they pay 2.1244 millage rate to Bay Lake and if they revert to Orlando control, they will be paying the 6.65 rate that Universal pays.

Once again...Disney does not just get to stop paying the municipal layer of taxes like all the dem doomsday scenarios are portraying. It may be unclear right now who will be taking over RC/Bay Lake's role, but the legislature is aware of it is planning to deal with it. Given the speed with which this got done, I don't expect them to dilly dally and let it become an issue in November.

tysker said:

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txags92 said:

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tysker said:

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Why are Republicans in favor of removing Improvement district authority and send more power back to the State?
This seems like a weapon the Democrats would use

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Why are the democrats in favor of giving tax breaks to big megacorporations? Seems like something the Republicans can use as a weapon.

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Improvement districts are "big megacorporations" for which property owners are held at the whims government morality police? I'd be careful what you wish for.

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I was just giving you the opposing argument to play devil's advocate on your statement. The authority will not go back to the state. It will go to whatever municipality control of the Disney Property falls under.

Quote:

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Once again...Disney does not just get to stop paying the municipal layer of taxes like all the dem doomsday scenarios are portraying. It may be unclear right now who will be taking over RC/Bay Lake's role, but the legislature is aware of it is planning to deal with it. Given the speed with which this got done, I don't expect them to dilly dally and let it become an issue in November.

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Is this ultimately for the benefit of taxpayers? Are they going to have to pass the bill to find out whats in it? Is this legislative ****housery + virtual signaling + base-pandering or will there real true measurable benefit to the people?

I know you probably dont have the answer just asking more broadly.

txags92 said:

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tysker said:

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txags92 said:

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tysker said:

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Why are Republicans in favor of removing Improvement district authority and send more power back to the State?
This seems like a weapon the Democrats would use

---

Why are the democrats in favor of giving tax breaks to big megacorporations? Seems like something the Republicans can use as a weapon.

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Improvement districts are "big megacorporations" for which property owners are held at the whims government morality police? I'd be careful what you wish for.

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I was just giving you the opposing argument to play devil's advocate on your statement. The authority will not go back to the state. It will go to whatever municipality control of the Disney Property falls under.

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The state dissolved its contract with no obvious recourse by the landowner. Seems like a pretty powerful statement of authority to me, comrade.

Hey counties pay your fair share in taxes! That's what the Marxists keep telling us

tysker said:

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Quote:

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Once again...Disney does not just get to stop paying the municipal layer of taxes like all the dem doomsday scenarios are portraying. It may be unclear right now who will be taking over RC/Bay Lake's role, but the legislature is aware of it is planning to deal with it. Given the speed with which this got done, I don't expect them to dilly dally and let it become an issue in November.

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Is this ultimately for the benefit of taxpayers? Are they going to have to pass the bill to find out whats in it? Is this legislative ****housery + virtual signaling + base-pandering or will there real true measurable benefit to the people?

I know you probably dont have the answer just asking more broadly.

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Honestly, it is mostly for show, but there is zero doubt in my mind that Disney will pay more in taxes because of this. Whether the locals pass the benefit of those extra taxes on to their residents is an open question. But I think the real message was to companies that are enjoying special perks from the Florida government, saying don't stick your nose into legislation that doesn't affect you.

txags92 said:

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tysker said:

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Quote:

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Once again...Disney does not just get to stop paying the municipal layer of taxes like all the dem doomsday scenarios are portraying. It may be unclear right now who will be taking over RC/Bay Lake's role, but the legislature is aware of it is planning to deal with it. Given the speed with which this got done, I don't expect them to dilly dally and let it become an issue in November.

---

Is this ultimately for the benefit of taxpayers? Are they going to have to pass the bill to find out whats in it? Is this legislative ****housery + virtual signaling + base-pandering or will there real true measurable benefit to the people?

I know you probably dont have the answer just asking more broadly.

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Honestly, it is mostly for show, but there is zero doubt in my mind that Disney will pay more in taxes because of this. Whether the locals pass the benefit of those extra taxes on to their residents is an open question. But I think the real message was to companies that are enjoying special perks from the Florida government, saying don't stick your nose into legislation that doesn't affect you.

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Higher taxes will be passed onto the local citizens, employees, and consumers. Unlcear if this will hurt shareholders. I think Disney original had no stance in the matter until its employees pressed executives to 'say something.' The executives should have stayed out of it, but that being said, using legislation as weapon to silence opposition to legislation, whether it be individuals or corporations, is f'n shady, imo. And now we have right-wingers arguing that this "stick your nose into legislation that doesn't affect you" is why Citizens United needs to be overturned.

tysker said:

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txags92 said:

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tysker said:

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Quote:

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Once again...Disney does not just get to stop paying the municipal layer of taxes like all the dem doomsday scenarios are portraying. It may be unclear right now who will be taking over RC/Bay Lake's role, but the legislature is aware of it is planning to deal with it. Given the speed with which this got done, I don't expect them to dilly dally and let it become an issue in November.

---

Is this ultimately for the benefit of taxpayers? Are they going to have to pass the bill to find out whats in it? Is this legislative ****housery + virtual signaling + base-pandering or will there real true measurable benefit to the people?

I know you probably dont have the answer just asking more broadly.

---

Honestly, it is mostly for show, but there is zero doubt in my mind that Disney will pay more in taxes because of this. Whether the locals pass the benefit of those extra taxes on to their residents is an open question. But I think the real message was to companies that are enjoying special perks from the Florida government, saying don't stick your nose into legislation that doesn't affect you.

---

Higher taxes will be passed onto the local citizens, employees, and consumers. Unlcear if this will hurt shareholders. I think Disney original had no stance in the matter until its employees pressed executives to 'say something.' The executives should have stayed out of it, but that being said, using legislation as weapon to silence opposition to legislation, whether it be individuals or corporations, is f'n shady, imo. And now we have right-wingers arguing that this "stick your nose into legislation that doesn't affect you" is why Citizens United needs to be overturned.

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There won't be any higher taxes passed on to the local citizens because of this unless some local democratic municipality that is run by politicians bought and paid for by Disney decides to do it to make people hurt for defying Disney. And I don't have a problem with taking away special benefits granted only to certain corporations that decide to get involved in things that have no effect on them. Corporations who are getting special privileges not granted to other similar corporations (which shouldn't happen in the first place imo) should tread very lightly when deciding to throw their weight around in politics.

If the "employees of Disney" PAC wanted to get involved and throw their weight behind opposing this law, that would be great! Let them do it. But in this case, it was the corporation itself and its executives that tried to directly involve the company in opposing the law. That is wrong, because it puts a bunch of people who may totally agree with the law in the position of being afraid to speak up personally because they could lose their job. They can choose to donate to a PAC and have a role in electing the leadership of the PAC, but when a corporation decides to get directly involved, the employees don't get the choice in the matter and are along for the ride. When the stance that the company takes has nothing to do with anything that would involve or affect the company or its employees, they have no business dragging their employees along involuntarily on a political joy ride that the executives decided to go on.

Quote:

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Details emerge on....

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Emerge from where?

Dems sure do like to think DeSantis is that dumb. I think he's possibly one of, if not the best governor any state has ever had.

$2,200 per family? On some strange chance that would come to pass, how would those poor families pay that huge bill?



If it's a family of four, they might have to spend 2 less days at Disney next year.

All it requires is for a cast member to sell two extra Mickey Mouse ice teas.