How many black females would need to be in the applicant pool to reach that equivalency?

How many females did it take to cherry pick a couple that could "pass" Ranger School?

It is an idiotic experiment and purely for show.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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El_Zorro said:

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I do not want to fly with female pilots. Hell, I won't let a female operate a car I'm riding in.

I can't even begin to fathom how many black female applicants it would take to find a few qualified and proficient pilots as compared to the average white male former military pilot.

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Trash take. They are ****ty pilots of all flavors.

I don't think we need to push one over another but there's no reason to keep someone willing and able to do the job from it based on dated stereotypes.

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Agreed. But not even close in the same percentages.

El_Zorro said:

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How many black females would need to be in the applicant pool to reach that equivalency?

How many females did it take to cherry pick a couple that could "pass" Ranger School?

It is an idiotic experiment and purely for show.

---

So-unless I've misunderstood (and if I did, please correct me)-you're saying a less experienced black female pilot is inferior to a less experienced white male pilot, even when every other factor is the same? Because in your original example, you were (as I understood it) comparing a very experienced pilot with a less experienced pilot.

The woke mob is ruining everything!!!!!

CanyonAg77 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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When you make reservations you should be notified of each pilot's demographic makeup. Then, we can see who wants to fly with the 50-year old, male, white, air combat veteran, and who wants to fly with obese 25 year-old girl who got her hours at the regional airport and claims Lizzo as her role model. Which flights will fill up and which will be empty?

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Give me the 25-year-old, who will not be obese, because she could never get a medical. Someone who builds hours as an instructor and a commercial pilot wants it bad, and has to work their ass off for years, at crap pay, to get into that seat. Someone comfortable with computers

That kind of real world experience is invaluable. When Sully landed "The Miracle on the Hudson", he relied as much on his glider training as a 14 year old kid as he did on his Air Force hours.

My Favorite Pilot is great, if you want 9G fighter moves, Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses, rolling in hot for a strafing run with the 20mm Gatling gun on an F-16, or handling 100% of cockpit duties single pilot

Oddly enough, none of those skills are called for in a Southwest Airlines 737.

Don't get me wrong, military training and experience is great. But it's silly to assume they all make great airline pilots

Even sillier to assume non-military trained are bad

---

I wouldn't. My brother of who was an instructor pilot in the AF and 19 years of experience had to get qualified in single engine prop plane (for some reason). His civilian instructor was a complete moron. Whoever that guy trained got crappy training.

Quote:

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I do not want to fly with female pilots. Hell, I won't let a female operate a car I'm riding in.

I can't even begin to fathom how many black female applicants it would take to find a few qualified and proficient pilots as compared to the average white male former military pilot.

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Good to read machismo is alive and well.


Southwest Airlines Flight 1455 had a military trained pilot. Props to him for calling out his own error.
I imagine you would prefer him over Tammie Jo Shults.

Bubblez said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Obviously, it's stupid to value "diversity" over competency.

I'm all for encouraging groups that are underrepresented to investigate careers that they don't traditionally pursue, and send qualified members of their group to apply.

But, as said above, females and minorities aren't intrested in aviation, near as much as white males are. My Favorite Pilot is one of less than 100 female active duty fighter pilots in the USAF. Not for lack of ability, but purely from numbers. Her flight school class had about 30 members, 3 female, the rest almost exclusively white males. Her T-38 phase was 1 female 9 males. The others chose transports.

It's self selection, not discrimination

The worst thing about the OP, is how idiots assume that if you aren't a white male, you must be a diversity hire, and thus, unqualified. I've seen it on this board.

As for some of the crashes mentioned above, the problem has lots of causes. Air France crash was a combination of poor design, and technicians on the stick, not aviators. Some of the Asian crashes had to do with the Asian obedience to authority, and copilots who allowed a crash rather than defy a superior. Many foreign airlines, one has to be a member of the ruling class to get a slot, not be qualified.

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Really curious as to what are the "qualifications" to be in a position to enter pilot training. It would be fairly easy to determine upon exit if a person developed the competencies to pilot an aircraft after training is complete, and of course those who can't demonstrate competency shouldn't progress on to a job being a pilot, but to enter school would seem to be wide open to almost anyone.

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There would be obvious age, health, education, and physical standards to apply, including height and weight. Candidates that seem qualified could be given a few hours of flight training for screening. As training progresses, students would have to meet goals, or be sent back for remedial training, or washed out.

Many foreign airlines do such ab inito training, taking non pilots all the way to the right seat. Lufthansa used to run their program in Arizona, don't know if they still do. It would be interesting to investigate how they select candidates

It's ok bro.
That poster likes that joke that starts off:
Q: What do you call one white guy with one black guy?
A: Liberal

icrymyselftosleep said:

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El_Zorro said:

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How many black females would need to be in the applicant pool to reach that equivalency?

How many females did it take to cherry pick a couple that could "pass" Ranger School?

It is an idiotic experiment and purely for show.

---

So-unless I've misunderstood (and if I did, please correct me)-you're saying a less experienced black female pilot is inferior to a less experienced white male pilot, even when every other factor is the same? Because in your original example, you were (as I understood it) comparing a very experienced pilot with a less experienced pilot.

---

I'm saying a large pool of black female proficient former military aviators does not exist. And black females on the right side of the bell curve are not going into those jobs.

And that a white male pilot can come from the middle of the bell curve and be equivalent to those rare black females on the right side. You have a much larger pool of proficient applicants.

aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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dallasiteinsa02 said:

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LThe US Military has done all of their training for them. They are going to have to develop their own flight schools and training programs to develop pilots.

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This times a million. Airlines have been using military training as a hidden subsidy for too damn long. It's time they step up to the plate and train their own damn pilots

---

Are you saying that if a former military pilot wants a job, that the airlines should refuse them, and instead hire a less experienced pilot and pay for their training?

---

How in Hades do you get that?

The military should make it more attractive to stay as a military pilot.

The airlines should quit poaching military pilots and train their own

---

The military would cost themselves more money trying to pay their pilots that kind of money. It's better to have them fly as reservists (and as airline pilots at the same time). That way you get the best of both worlds.

---

It takes $6,000,000 to train a fighter pilot. I'm guessing a little more pay, and being smarter about assignments and quality of life issues would be cheaper than that.

And reserves are not the best of both worlds. Lots of good and bad with depending on Guard/reserve

El_Zorro said:

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icrymyselftosleep said:

---

El_Zorro said:

---

How many black females would need to be in the applicant pool to reach that equivalency?

How many females did it take to cherry pick a couple that could "pass" Ranger School?

It is an idiotic experiment and purely for show.

---

So-unless I've misunderstood (and if I did, please correct me)-you're saying a less experienced black female pilot is inferior to a less experienced white male pilot, even when every other factor is the same? Because in your original example, you were (as I understood it) comparing a very experienced pilot with a less experienced pilot.

---

I'm saying a large pool of black female proficient former military aviators does not exist. And black females on the right side of the bell curve are not going into those jobs.

And that a white male pilot can come from the middle of the bell curve and be equivalent to those rare black females on the right side. You have a much larger pool of proficient applicants.

---

Hell, I rarely see any black flight attendants.

El_Zorro said:

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icrymyselftosleep said:

---

El_Zorro said:

---

How many black females would need to be in the applicant pool to reach that equivalency?

How many females did it take to cherry pick a couple that could "pass" Ranger School?

It is an idiotic experiment and purely for show.

---

So-unless I've misunderstood (and if I did, please correct me)-you're saying a less experienced black female pilot is inferior to a less experienced white male pilot, even when every other factor is the same? Because in your original example, you were (as I understood it) comparing a very experienced pilot with a less experienced pilot.

---

I'm saying a large pool of black female proficient former military aviators does not exist. And black females on the right side of the bell curve are not going into those jobs.

And that a white male pilot can come from the middle of the bell curve and be equivalent to those rare black females on the right side. You have a much larger pool of proficient applicants.

---

And I'm saying drop the military aviator experience.

But now that you've come out and finally said that average white male pilots are the same as proficient black female pilots, I think I finally got my answer.

icrymyselftosleep said:

---

El_Zorro said:

---

icrymyselftosleep said:

---

El_Zorro said:

---

How many black females would need to be in the applicant pool to reach that equivalency?

How many females did it take to cherry pick a couple that could "pass" Ranger School?

It is an idiotic experiment and purely for show.

---

So-unless I've misunderstood (and if I did, please correct me)-you're saying a less experienced black female pilot is inferior to a less experienced white male pilot, even when every other factor is the same? Because in your original example, you were (as I understood it) comparing a very experienced pilot with a less experienced pilot.

---

I'm saying a large pool of black female proficient former military aviators does not exist. And black females on the right side of the bell curve are not going into those jobs.

And that a white male pilot can come from the middle of the bell curve and be equivalent to those rare black females on the right side. You have a much larger pool of proficient applicants.

---

And I'm saying drop the military aviator experience.

But now that you've come out and finally said that average white male pilots are the same as proficient black female pilots, I think I finally got my answer.

---

What you heard, was the truth. Not fantasyland.

El_Zorro said:

---

How many black females would need to be in the applicant pool to reach that equivalency?

How many females did it take to cherry pick a couple that could "pass" Ranger School?

It is an idiotic experiment and purely for show.

---

Ranger School requires physical strength. Aviation does not

I met a black female American Airlines pilot a few years ago. She was smart, attractive, and professional. She was also an owner of a recycling business. I would have no fear of flying on any plane she flew.

TxTarpon said:

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Are you saying "black women pilots = crashing planes"?

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I don't know, but I would need to know that there was ZERO consideration for their race or any type of affirmative action whatsoever involved in the hiring process. And there's no way I could be sure, all too often it is the opposite.

But anecdotally, I know Asians get a bad rap when it comes to driving because they tend to be slower and overly cautious...but from my years and years of observation in Houston, black women tend to drive like no one else is on the road and they don't GAF if anyone else dies. Least considerate too in terms of letting people in etc. Just a 100% honest observation. Oh, and most likely to have handicap placard even though 100% young and able bodied.

CanyonAg77 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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dallasiteinsa02 said:

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LThe US Military has done all of their training for them. They are going to have to develop their own flight schools and training programs to develop pilots.

---

This times a million. Airlines have been using military training as a hidden subsidy for too damn long. It's time they step up to the plate and train their own damn pilots

---

Are you saying that if a former military pilot wants a job, that the airlines should refuse them, and instead hire a less experienced pilot and pay for their training?

---

How in Hades do you get that?

The military should make it more attractive to stay as a military pilot.

The airlines should quit poaching military pilots and train their own

---

The military would cost themselves more money trying to pay their pilots that kind of money. It's better to have them fly as reservists (and as airline pilots at the same time). That way you get the best of both worlds.

---

It takes $6,000,000 to train a fighter pilot. I'm guessing a little more pay, and being smarter about assignments and quality of life issues would be cheaper than that.

And reserves are not the best of both worlds. Lots of good and bad with depending on Guard/reserve

---

It would require a LOT more pay. The average pay for an AF pilot is $85,103. The average pay for an airline pilot is $160,970.

Oh, I thought this was going to be about masks.

A military pilot is not going to be making the big bucks the first few years they go airline. Likely they will take a pay cut for a few years. And it's not all about the money.

For instance, if you could fly the F-16, get a few more $$$, be relieved of some of the BS admin duties you are now doing, staying in the AF sounds like more fun

aTmAg said:

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"dismantle whiteness in engineering to build better bridges"?

Are these idiots serious?

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They absolutely are and it is infuriating and scary. The very next line says "embrace other ways of knowing " wtf does that mean? It can't be good.

CanyonAg77 said:

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A military pilot is not going to be making the big bucks the first few years they go airline. Likely they will take a pay cut for a few years. And it's not all about the money.

For instance, if you could fly the F-16, get a few more $$$, be relieved of some of the BS admin duties you are now doing, staying in the AF sounds like more fun

---

So you do the reserve route (like my brother did). You fly F-16s for reserves on weekends and work a real job on weekdays. Again, best of both worlds.

Quote:

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I don't know, but I would need to know that there was ZERO consideration for their race or any type of affirmative action whatsoever involved in the hiring process. And there's no way I could be sure, all too often it is the opposite.

---

Hiring someone who will eventually be in command an control of a multimillion dollar asset with passengers is high risk.
Putting in a poor performer in a position to fail resulting in millions in losses is not going to happen for a PR program.

Spirit airlines should take the lead here

aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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dallasiteinsa02 said:

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LThe US Military has done all of their training for them. They are going to have to develop their own flight schools and training programs to develop pilots.

---

This times a million. Airlines have been using military training as a hidden subsidy for too damn long. It's time they step up to the plate and train their own damn pilots

---

Are you saying that if a former military pilot wants a job, that the airlines should refuse them, and instead hire a less experienced pilot and pay for their training?

---

How in Hades do you get that?

The military should make it more attractive to stay as a military pilot.

The airlines should quit poaching military pilots and train their own

---

The military would cost themselves more money trying to pay their pilots that kind of money. It's better to have them fly as reservists (and as airline pilots at the same time). That way you get the best of both worlds.

---

It takes $6,000,000 to train a fighter pilot. I'm guessing a little more pay, and being smarter about assignments and quality of life issues would be cheaper than that.

And reserves are not the best of both worlds. Lots of good and bad with depending on Guard/reserve

---

It would require a LOT more pay. The average pay for an AF pilot is $85,103. The average pay for an airline pilot is $160,970.

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Your average pay is way off. I make more than that as a 1Lt before per diem or tax breaks for combat pay trips.


Also personally think airlines and part timing sounds horrible. Still on the road 8-12 days for your airline gig and then whatever reserve commitments you have.

Especially since the chances of domiciling for both is low so you're traveling to one

lobopride said:

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TxTarpon said:

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black women pilots = crashing planes?

United and American Airlines are among companies introducing bus services on some routes, a report says
Would the buses arrive on time though?

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Just hire the most qualified regardless of skin pigmentation or assumed genitalia. Seems simple to me. If you start caring about other things more than qualification then you are lowering your standards, and yes you are putting people at risk.

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Kara "Revlon" Hultgreen says hello

BAP Enthusiast said:

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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/business/pilots-diversity.html

Quote:

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The End of the All-Male, All-White Cockpit
Airlines are struggling to find enough pilots and to diversify a profession that has been very resistant to change.

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Just tell me the airline that has the most pilots who flew combat missions (or large cargo planes) in the military and that's the airline I'm flying on.

— A New Radical Centrism (@a_centrism) April 26, 2022

I can't wait for woefully under qualified pilots and copilots trying to fly a plane without any idea what they are doing. Really makes me feel secure flying. I agree with the guy above, tell me which airline uses the most former military pilots and that's the one I'll use.

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I brought this up more than a year ago...

of course the Pravda media will never explain who the pilots are

the next time there is a crash caused by "pilot error"

CharlieBrown17 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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aTmAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

---

dallasiteinsa02 said:

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LThe US Military has done all of their training for them. They are going to have to develop their own flight schools and training programs to develop pilots.

---

This times a million. Airlines have been using military training as a hidden subsidy for too damn long. It's time they step up to the plate and train their own damn pilots

---

Are you saying that if a former military pilot wants a job, that the airlines should refuse them, and instead hire a less experienced pilot and pay for their training?

---

How in Hades do you get that?

The military should make it more attractive to stay as a military pilot.

The airlines should quit poaching military pilots and train their own

---

The military would cost themselves more money trying to pay their pilots that kind of money. It's better to have them fly as reservists (and as airline pilots at the same time). That way you get the best of both worlds.

---

It takes $6,000,000 to train a fighter pilot. I'm guessing a little more pay, and being smarter about assignments and quality of life issues would be cheaper than that.

And reserves are not the best of both worlds. Lots of good and bad with depending on Guard/reserve

---

It would require a LOT more pay. The average pay for an AF pilot is $85,103. The average pay for an airline pilot is $160,970.

---

Your average pay is way off. I make more than that as a 1Lt before per diem or tax breaks for combat pay trips.


Also personally think airlines and part timing sounds horrible. Still on the road 8-12 days for your airline gig and then whatever reserve commitments you have.

Especially since the chances of domiciling for both is low so you're traveling to one

---

I google searched "average air force pilot pay". I can't click on the first link (since my work blocks it), but the google summary of it says (highlighting by google. not me):

Quote:

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The national average salary for an Air Force Pilot is $85,103 per year in United States. Filter by location to see an Air Force Pilot salaries in your area.

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And probably 90% of my brothers reserve unit were airline pilots. And they loved it. As far as I'm aware all of his AF buddies stayed until their allowable time was up (like my brother).

CSTXAg92 said:

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Don't know why, but this thread reminded me of this oldie but goody...

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"We got you covered like a jimmy hat"

TxTarpon said:

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Are you saying "black women pilots = crashing planes"?

United and American Airlines are among companies introducing bus services on some routes, a report says
Would the buses arrive on time though?

---

Would that be different than the implication of the tweet, which is that non-white, non-males have built better bridges (link, proof?) and that whiteness needs to be overcome in the cockpit as well?

I mean, they are implying non-whites, non-males would be better pilots. Is it worse to say "nyuh uh"?

Quote:

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Would that be different than the implication of the tweet, which is that non-white, non-males have built better bridges (link, proof?) and that whiteness needs to be overcome in the cockpit as well?

---

Contact the NYT and the Tweeter and ask for your mulligan to find out.

El_Zorro said:

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I do not want to fly with female pilots. Hell, I won't let a female operate a car I'm riding in.

I can't even begin to fathom how many black female applicants it would take to find a few qualified and proficient pilots as compared to the average white male former military pilot.

---

Prepare to drive everywhere then.
There's quite a few female pilots, and judging by the male-female ratio at Embry-Riddle, there's a lot more coming

Just came back from a 16 hour flight in a pressurized metal tube, hurtling through the air at 1000 km/hr at 39,000 feet. Personally, I don't care what the pilots are as long as they are well trained, competent and sober.

BAP Enthusiast said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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Choosing pilots based on anything other than performance will lead to more crashes. We don't give a crap what color, what biological sex or any other bit of that woke crap about the pilots as long as they can safely take us from point A to point B.

Feel free to try to keep up.

---

Did you miss this?

Listen, if we can dismantle whiteness in engineering to build better bridges, embrace other ways of knowing to advance cancer research, and jettison racist testing and grading to improve the quality of education, why can't we also fill our airline cockpits with black females?

Or this linked to the OP article.

lowering standards for pilots who fly large commercial airplanes full of civilians across American skies for the sake racial diversity

what could possibly go wrong?

— Sully🐕 (@Sully_Good_Boy) April 26, 2022

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He said those things because there have been many recent major disasters related to unqualified diversity hires in those fields. See that bridge in Florida or the insane disparity in standards for medical and law school admission, etc.

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HUH???

Everyone here wants the best pilot regardless of anything else and is a lying leftist troll if they say otherwise

TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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Would that be different than the implication of the tweet, which is that non-white, non-males have built better bridges (link, proof?) and that whiteness needs to be overcome in the cockpit as well?

---

Contact the NYT and the Tweeter and ask for your mulligan to find out.

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I didn't assert non-white, non-male engineers had built better bridges. I am sure not gonna try to prove it.

CanyonAg77 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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When you make reservations you should be notified of each pilot's demographic makeup. Then, we can see who wants to fly with the 50-year old, male, white, air combat veteran, and who wants to fly with obese 25 year-old girl who got her hours at the regional airport and claims Lizzo as her role model. Which flights will fill up and which will be empty?

---

Give me the 25-year-old, who will not be obese, because she could never get a medical. Someone who builds hours as an instructor and a commercial pilot wants it bad, and has to work their ass off for years, at crap pay, to get into that seat. Someone comfortable with computers

That kind of real world experience is invaluable. When Sully landed "The Miracle on the Hudson", he relied as much on his glider training as a 14 year old kid as he did on his Air Force hours.

My Favorite Pilot is great, if you want 9G fighter moves, Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses, rolling in hot for a strafing run with the 20mm Gatling gun on an F-16, or handling 100% of cockpit duties single pilot

Oddly enough, none of those skills are called for in a Southwest Airlines 737.

Don't get me wrong, military training and experience is great. But it's silly to assume they all make great airline pilots

Even sillier to assume non-military trained are bad

---

So you are saying we should simply judge pilots based on their skill level and we shouldn't give any consideration to sex or race? I say fine. But we shouldn't then expect there to be 50% females or 12% black pilots or 6% Asian pilots. In the meantime, I would suggest that most people would want the pilot with more experience. It is precisely these quotas which cause a loss of confidence in professionals. Are they there because they are good or because they are black/woman/hispanic/disadvantaged etc...?